Fans Have Lost Perspective

[mopaji]

I will be the first to admit that this team is terrible. They are terrible to watch and they practically ruin my entire football season. With that said, what did you expect?

 

I have been hearing people talking about blowing the whole operation up and starting over. Well guess what? That's what we did this year! This is what it looks like when you "blow the whole thing up". I don't know about the rest of you but I fully expected a season like this one. Granted I didn't expect a 1-7 start maybe a 2-5 start but I expected it to look like this. This team is talentless and even with KII and Braylon we would still be in a whole world of hurt. Better we got what we did for them when we did. We need a QB no doubt but you could list any position CB,S,LB,WR, DE,RB,TE as our number one need. Mangini isn't to blame here and it's too soon to throw DaBoll under the bus either. These players SUCK! I firmly believe that Mangini isn't mad that we are losing, he expected to, I think he's mad because his players just cannot play this game and its humiliating. I read somewhere recently that something like 22 of the 26 players he has gotten rid of are out of the league right now. That speaks volumes as to what kind of talent we have here. Its not like we're the Chargers or Titans and just underachieving. We are more like the Lions and Chiefs who have ZERO talent thanks to too many years of bad coaches and GMs.

 

This is what rebuilding looks like people please keep it in perspective. None of us really thought we would be any good this year and even Peter King picked us to win 2 games. That wasn't because of the Mangini hire. That was because he took a good look at our roster, threw up a little bit, and made a prediction. Stop losing your heads over this team. This, unfortunately is a 16 game scouting program. More than half of this team will be unemployed next year and that includes a few guys that are currently starting for this team. Its sad but it is true. Mangini is doing what should have been done in 99. Its ugly and our patience has reached its limit but it must be done this way if we have any hope of building a successful Browns team in this city again. And I firmly believe Mangini is one of very few coaches on the planet that knows how to do that and has the balls to grind it out until a winner is built.

 

Keep the Faith and Keep it in Perspective

[ClevelandFanForLife]

i get what your saying and i agree with but i think that most people are a little impatient with rebuilding at this point. we've been doing it for ten straight years now with no end in sight. we don't to wait anymore.

[tampadawgs]

thank god someone with sense......Whe are best players are punter and a kick-of return guy. what do you expect, players make plays not coaches

[kshutchins]

I will be the first to admit that this team is terrible. They are terrible to watch and they practically ruin my entire football season. With that said, what did you expect?

 

I expected a lousy season. I did expect to see progress in a positive direction as the season progresed, or some sign that learning was going on. The defense is lacking in talent but at least they have flashes of success sufficient to make it interesting (the goal line stand, for example) and they play with energy. They LOOK engaged in the process.

 

I'm not in favor of dumping everyone and starting over. I lost some confidence in Mangini when he created drama out of nothing when it came time to select a QB. I lost a little more when he pulled BQ so quickly, after he said he'd choose a QB and stick with him. I lost a little more confidence when he left Anderson in over and over and over again and Anderson showed no improvement whatsoever.

 

There are a few positive glimmers but they are so faint that they're nearly invisible.

 

[Pissedinmedina]

Wait - Hold on... You can't have it both ways. You say we suck because of the lack of talent, but we trade anything that even smells like talent. So let's just keep drafting "prospects" and hope their skill transfer to the NFL? This is a league of parity, we are supposed to reload, not rebuild. This falls on the coach. If he could manage people, he would find a way to leverage every ounce of talent we have, not trade them away for under-valued draft picks.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Wait - Hold on... You can't have it both ways. You say we suck because of the lack of talent, but we trade anything that even smells like talent. So let's just keep drafting "prospects" and hope their skill transfer to the NFL? This is a league of parity, we are supposed to reload, not rebuild. This falls on the coach. If he could manage people, he would find a way to leverage every ounce of talent we have, not trade them away for under-valued draft picks.

 

Edwards was extremely talented but he's kind of a "Look like tarzan play like Jane" type of player. He can get open all he wants but if he cant catch the ball whats the point?

 

Winslow is the highest paid TE in the NFL now. Were not a good enough team now or then to pay a TE that kinda money, to go along with he cant (or chooses not to) block, and he's not very durable.

 

Mangini has managed Shaun Rogers pretty will and he has a pretty good ego, I dont think them trades were do to his failure to manage them as much as it is a wise business decision since they were both gone next year anyway

 

[The Gipper]

Wait - Hold on... You can't have it both ways. You say we suck because of the lack of talent, but we trade anything that even smells like talent. So let's just keep drafting "prospects" and hope their skill transfer to the NFL? This is a league of parity, we are supposed to reload, not rebuild. This falls on the coach. If he could manage people, he would find a way to leverage every ounce of talent we have, not trade them away for under-valued draft picks.

 

But you see, every coach is basically only interested in HIS talent. The guys he brought in. I mean, Bill Belichick dumps Bernie Kosar in favor of Todd Philcox not because Philcox gave the team a better chance to win, but because Bernie was not his guy. Though Philcox may not have been his guy either, BB knew that he could never put "his guy" into place until he got rid of "the other guys guy". This scenario is simply repeating itself here over and over like Groundhog day. Butch Davis didn't like Dwight Clark's guys, Phil Savage thought Davis' guys all sucked and Mangini thinks Savages guys all suck. They all want to be little Jack Palance's and bring in "My guys".

 

[The Gipper]

By the way, I would like to see that list of 26 guys Mangini has jettisoned, and which ones are or are not still in the league. You say there are only 4 of 26? Two of them would be Winslow and Edwards. Any more names?

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

By the way, I would like to see that list of 26 guys Mangini has jettisoned, and which ones are or are not still in the league. You say there are only 4 of 26? Two of them would be Winslow and Edwards. Any more names?

 

Shawn Smith, Sean Jones and Kevin Shaffer I beleive Dan Carey signed with someone. Dont know if hes of a practice squad or what. Thats all I can think of still in the league right now

[mopaji]

i get what your saying and i agree with but i think that most people are a little impatient with rebuilding at this point. we've been doing it for ten straight years now with no end in sight. we don't to wait anymore.

 

 

I'm tired of rebuilding too but what I think is different this time is that we have a HC and GM that can do it for real. And they have the balls to take their lumps and keep plugging away.

[mopaji]

I expected a lousy season. I did expect to see progress in a positive direction as the season progresed, or some sign that learning was going on. The defense is lacking in talent but at least they have flashes of success sufficient to make it interesting (the goal line stand, for example) and they play with energy. They LOOK engaged in the process.

 

I'm not in favor of dumping everyone and starting over. I lost some confidence in Mangini when he created drama out of nothing when it came time to select a QB. I lost a little more when he pulled BQ so quickly, after he said he'd choose a QB and stick with him. I lost a little more confidence when he left Anderson in over and over and over again and Anderson showed no improvement whatsoever.

 

There are a few positive glimmers but they are so faint that they're nearly invisible.

 

All I will say about the QBs is that they are both really bad. I thought DA had more potential than Quinn but so far, they are both just aweful.

 

About rebuilding, think of it like when you clean out the garage. You have to pull stuff out and put it all over the place before you can get it all cleaned up and functioning. When somebody walks in midway through the process their gonna think it looks like shit. Once its done they will say "oh this is much better than before".

[mopaji]

Shawn Smith, Sean Jones and Kevin Shaffer I beleive Dan Carey signed with someone. Dont know if hes of a practice squad or what. Thats all I can think of still in the league right now

 

 

I think S. Smith was cut wasn't he?

[JoeSixPat]

I saw someone else on ProFootballTalk recommending the same type of patience that I see in this post.

 

They pointed out that the Browns are an Expansion Team and that one shouldn't expect them to turn things around too quickly....

 

Ummm - 10 years isn't enough?

 

I think that's the issue here - and other expansion teams like the Jaguars, Panthers have been to the playoffs in that period of time and Houston's flirted with mediocrity/respectability from time to time... (which I don't think the Browns can claim).

 

That's salt in the wound to a football town with a strong amount of football pride and the owner owes the fans an explanation at the very least.

[mopaji]

I saw someone else on ProFootballTalk recommending the same type of patience that I see in this post.

 

They pointed out that the Browns are an Expansion Team and that one shouldn't expect them to turn things around too quickly....

 

Ummm - 10 years isn't enough?

 

I think that's the issue here - and other expansion teams like the Jaguars, Panthers have been to the playoffs in that period of time and Houston's flirted with mediocrity/respectability from time to time... (which I don't think the Browns can claim).

 

That's salt in the wound to a football town with a strong amount of football pride and the owner owes the fans an explanation at the very least.

 

 

True but, Mangini has only been here for 8 games.

[ATENEARS]

By the way, I would like to see that list of 26 guys Mangini has jettisoned, and which ones are or are not still in the league. You say there are only 4 of 26? Two of them would be Winslow and Edwards. Any more names?

 

I created a new topic with a full list of our transactions.

 

It should have been posted on halloween ... scary stuff.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

I saw someone else on ProFootballTalk recommending the same type of patience that I see in this post.

 

They pointed out that the Browns are an Expansion Team and that one shouldn't expect them to turn things around too quickly....

 

Ummm - 10 years isn't enough?

 

I think that's the issue here - and other expansion teams like the Jaguars, Panthers have been to the playoffs in that period of time and Houston's flirted with mediocrity/respectability from time to time... (which I don't think the Browns can claim).

 

That's salt in the wound to a football town with a strong amount of football pride and the owner owes the fans an explanation at the very least.

 

The previous 10 years is not Mangini's fault.

 

When your building a house you dont start building the frame before you lay the foundation. Same goes with football, right now hes laying the foundation. Which is his core values, tough, smart, loves football so on and so on. After the foundation is layed and the team can steer there own ship, you bring in more risky talented players. If you bring those guys in and the team has no direction you end up with what we had the last 10 years, certain players running the organization instead of the TEAM.

 

There has do be a direction.. an identity we have to build that first.

 

[samoth]

You can't fire a coach after 8 games, unless you've got Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan blowing up the phone asking for a job. Mangini has made a lot of mistakes but he inherited a team full of marginal players that was well on the way to cap hell, so what was he supposed to do?

[Gips]

I'm tired of rebuilding too but what I think is different this time is that we have a HC and GM that can do it for real. And they have the balls to take their lumps and keep plugging away.

What we have is an idiot who continues to leave rookies on the bench and then throw em in cold when one of his shitty mangini guys goes down and expects them too perform like they have been working on the first team..

We have an idiot that cant stick to his own plan and has wasted our entire season on his shitty jets mangini guys instead of evaluating all the rookies to see who may stay and who wont cut it next year..

 

We have an idiot coach that claims daboll is doing a good job and the only thing he is evaluating is his mangini jet guys its "a process" he says instead of taking responsibilty for making this team worse than it was once again while rookies rot on the bench for fear all will see they may be busts..

 

We have an indecisive blundering fool thats in way over his head..he cant and doesnt live up to his own philosophy or discipline so how does he expect anyone else to...he brought in a newbie wannabe coordinator when he had to know this job called for an experienced OC..once again showing he is a weak little man with no idea what he got himself into...lerner hired mangini because of experience yet he stinks the joint up with daboll and tries to feed the fanns a big ol bag of shit that we will now cover him with...smart guy? NO only a smart ass...

 

Mangini is going to find out that clevelands media is a bunch of weaksauce gutless repeating heads but the fans here are way way tougher then NYC fans...when it comes to a crumb mouthed scumbag running our team..a true forked tongue slimy serpent...

 

Which way would you rather lose and waste a seoson?

Watching young guys develop or bust...or watching mangini's jets flounder around on the field giving up the big plays?

If you are going to blow it up blow it up right like parcells...mangini failed to do that as well before the season started..

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

All the rookies have had playing time. Mack, Robiskie, and MoMass start. And Maiva has been playing more and more. Francies played quite a bit sunday. and Vekune came in in the 4th. You cant expect 4th 5th 6th rounders to step in right away and play.

Vekune is the only player I'd like to see more but since hes going from a down linemen to OLB the transition is expected to take longer.

[BrownB499]

I look at our defense,and see them as NFL competitive

 

They suck ,but they are at least NFL caliber SUCK,they intercept,they tackle,they sack

even against the best teams in the league

 

The offense,is not NFL caliber,and that's what has most fans furious

 

we consider a successful drive to be 2 first downs!,no pick six,no fumble ,no three and out.

that was a nice drive,kept our defense off the field!

 

Now,whats the reason the O is so bad? lack of talent ?

when Mangini shipped KW2 his actions said "we can compete in this league with an average TE " WRONG

when he shipped BE his actions said "we can compete in this league without a #1 receiver" WRONG

when he chose Dabol as his OC his actions said "this is the guy who can out game plan the best DCs in our division " WRONG

when he chose to have a QB competition, well just plain WRONG

 

I'm not a hater,I want Mangini to be the answer,we need Mangini to be the GENIUS he was billed to be

 

But so far I really have to question how someone so thorough ,could miss so bad on something so important as offense

[ATENEARS]

I look at our defense,and see them as NFL competitive

 

They suck ,but they are at least NFL caliber SUCK,they intercept,they tackle,they sack

even against the best teams in the league

 

The offense,is not NFL caliber,and that's what has most fans furious

 

we consider a successful drive to be 2 first downs!,no pick six,no fumble ,no three and out.

that was a nice drive,kept our defense off the field!

 

Now,whats the reason the O is so bad? lack of talent ?

when Mangini shipped KW2 his actions said "we can compete in this league with an average TE " WRONG

when he shipped BE his actions said "we can compete in this league without a #1 receiver" WRONG

when he chose Dabol as his OC his actions said "this is the guy who can out game plan the best DCs in our division " WRONG

when he chose to have a QB competition, well just plain WRONG

 

I'm not a hater,I want Mangini to be the answer,we need Mangini to be the GENIUS he was billed to be

 

But so far I really have to question how someone so thorough ,could miss so bad on something so important as offense

 

Good post, I'm a Mangini apologist and I have to swallow hard at the above.

[Earl34]

What we have is an idiot who continues to leave rookies on the bench and then throw em in cold when one of his shitty mangini guys goes down and expects them too perform like they have been working on the first team..

We have an idiot that cant stick to his own plan and has wasted our entire season on his shitty jets mangini guys instead of evaluating all the rookies to see who may stay and who wont cut it next year..

 

We have an idiot coach that claims daboll is doing a good job and the only thing he is evaluating is his mangini jet guys its "a process" he says instead of taking responsibilty for making this team worse than it was once again while rookies rot on the bench for fear all will see they may be busts..

 

We have an indecisive blundering fool thats in way over his head..he cant and doesnt live up to his own philosophy or discipline so how does he expect anyone else to...he brought in a newbie wannabe coordinator when he had to know this job called for an experienced OC..once again showing he is a weak little man with no idea what he got himself into...lerner hired mangini because of experience yet he stinks the joint up with daboll and tries to feed the fanns a big ol bag of shit that we will now cover him with...smart guy? NO only a smart ass...

 

Mangini is going to find out that clevelands media is a bunch of weaksauce gutless repeating heads but the fans here are way way tougher then NYC fans...when it comes to a crumb mouthed scumbag running our team..a true forked tongue slimy serpent...

 

Which way would you rather lose and waste a seoson?

Watching young guys develop or bust...or watching mangini's jets flounder around on the field giving up the big plays?

If you are going to blow it up blow it up right like parcells...mangini failed to do that as well before the season started..

 

Dude...chill out. First off, the Jets that he brought in AREN'T the problem. Second, he hasn't given Daboll a pass on his lack of production. Try to be a little objective but then again, you're "tougher than NY fans". OK pal. Thanks. You'd be a little more convincing if you toned it down with the adjectives.

 

[MuramasaV1.0]

When I watch a team rebuild I like to see some sort of improvement in the younger players. A spark of hope I guess. We have had none of this, or if we have it has been shut down before it happens again. Why is Lewis even playing anymore when we have a young RB that was running well against the Ravens, and Bengals D? It is pretty obvious that DA has no future here after his last 5 or so games. Why hasn't he been removed? If they are not going to play BQ because of escalators than atleast put in Ratliff. It would be nice to see the coach explode at someone for making the same stupid mistakes every week. Instead we have Mangini standing there on the sidelines, no differant than RAC.

 

I believe the only reason Mangini was hired was because he could fit into the fatman coat that RAC used to wear, so they didn't have to pay for a new one.

[ballpeen]

i get what your saying and i agree with but i think that most people are a little impatient with rebuilding at this point. we've been doing it for ten straight years now with no end in sight. we don't to wait anymore.

 

CFFL...we have been rebuilding since 1964

 

[Bob806]

I look at our defense,and see them as NFL competitive

 

They suck ,but they are at least NFL caliber SUCK,they intercept,they tackle,they sack

even against the best teams in the league

 

 

I agree with most of what you wrote, except McDonald & Wright don't tackle- those two seem afraid to tackle.

 

[medicineman]

Rebuilding has been our excuse ever since we returned to Cleveland. We fire a coach after a year or 2. Then we start all over again. I would love to have Marty back in Cleveland. I really didn't HATE Romeo. I know its not the coaches fault we fumbled like 5 times on sunday but somebody needs to be blamed. Its just a shame we have to coach players to hold on to the ball when you are a "pro"

[mopaji]

Wait - Hold on... You can't have it both ways. You say we suck because of the lack of talent, but we trade anything that even smells like talent. So let's just keep drafting "prospects" and hope their skill transfer to the NFL? This is a league of parity, we are supposed to reload, not rebuild. This falls on the coach. If he could manage people, he would find a way to leverage every ounce of talent we have, not trade them away for under-valued draft picks.

 

 

The only way to stock pile picks in the 2010 draft is to trade players who ...

A. Are leaving anyways

B. Get paid a lot to be wasted on a bad team and

C. Will never play 100% here.

 

By the way, last years draft was aweful so to have 11 for this year's, which is much better, is just awesome. That's called foresite and I'm glad this coach has some.

[BrownIndian]

The fans have not lost perspective, they have lost patience.

[mopaji]

I look at our defense,and see them as NFL competitive

 

They suck ,but they are at least NFL caliber SUCK,they intercept,they tackle,they sack

even against the best teams in the league

 

The offense,is not NFL caliber,and that's what has most fans furious

 

we consider a successful drive to be 2 first downs!,no pick six,no fumble ,no three and out.

that was a nice drive,kept our defense off the field!

 

Now,whats the reason the O is so bad? lack of talent ?

when Mangini shipped KW2 his actions said "we can compete in this league with an average TE " WRONG

when he shipped BE his actions said "we can compete in this league without a #1 receiver" WRONG

when he chose Dabol as his OC his actions said "this is the guy who can out game plan the best DCs in our division " WRONG

when he chose to have a QB competition, well just plain WRONG

 

I'm not a hater,I want Mangini to be the answer,we need Mangini to be the GENIUS he was billed to be

 

But so far I really have to question how someone so thorough ,could miss so bad on something so important as offense

 

 

The QB thing is far more complicated than any of us will know. As far as the saying Mangini made a statement that we don't need a TE or WR, that is just wrong. It wasn't a statement, it was a move for the future. He traded two guys that didn't want to be here, were overpaid, on their way out, and wasting away on a bad team. What he got in return was draft picks. Most importantly, he got high picks for this year's draft which is far better than last years.

 

He's doing all he can do with this team and this situation. I'm not mad at Mangini, actually, I feel bad for him and am kind of happy he took this job. He got served shit soup and he has to turn it into Lobster Bisque in front 10 million people without panicking, that takes balls.

[mopaji]

Rebuilding has been our excuse ever since we returned to Cleveland. We fire a coach after a year or 2. Then we start all over again. I would love to have Marty back in Cleveland. I really didn't HATE Romeo. I know its not the coaches fault we fumbled like 5 times on sunday but somebody needs to be blamed. Its just a shame we have to coach players to hold on to the ball when you are a "pro"

 

 

If you have a problem "rebuilding" every two years, why would you want a new HC now? This has been a constant in this town.

 

"I'm sick of rebuilding, fire the coach"

"We have no identity, lets rebuild again"

"Lets blow this whole thing up, why can't we win now?"

"There has been no consistancy, we need a new GM"

 

THIS IS WHAT REBUILDING LOOKS LIKE. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE VERY FEW COACHES WHO CAN DO IT CORRECTLY. ITS UGLY, ITS PAINFUL TO WATCH, AND I'M TIRED OF IT. BUT ITS THE ONLY WAY.

 

 

 

ISSUE 3 PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!