My Take on the Browns 2009 Draft

[Jason J]

Heading into the spring of 2009, it seems Cleveland fans are once again becoming dazzled with with the riches another NFL Draft promises. Frankly, what else do we have to do with our January's around here? My fear (perhaps that's too strong a word) is that the pending college cattle auction will leave said fans in a state of numbing malaise. I caution you... fear not. The more uneventful the 2009 Draft appears for the Browns on Draft Day, the better off they'll likely be.

 

Trading out of the top of the draft never thrills the fans, but the Browns need to run screaming from the #5 pick they find themselves with. Outside of Michael Crabtree, there isn't a top 5 pick in this litter. Period. Based on sheer talent, they could probably start this draft at number 11 or 12. But I digress (frequently).

 

If George Kokinis is worth his salt, he'll spend the better part of the next 2 months calling all 27 teams picking behind him (and maybe the other 4 as well... 'cause moving to the top of round 2 isn't out of the question), and trying to unload that number 5 pick. If Michael Crabtree falls to 5? Well... then... raise the price and call 'em again.

 

Admittedly, I'd be tempted to take Crabtree if he's there. But, you must weigh the fact that his mere presence more than doubles the value of that pick. And the players the Browns "need" (there's that ugly word), are scattered throughout the draft board. You have to remember, in this day and age, it's often more important to get "your" guy, instead of getting "the" guy.

 

Nobody asked me, but I would advise the Browns to steer well clear of Aaron Curry. Curry is a fine player. But he's not enough of anything to fill the Browns need for edge personnel in the 3-4. He's not dynamic enough to be a significant upgrade over Wimbley, and doesn't show the strength and leverage to play his opposite. He's a talent to be sure, but pass.

 

Even if the governing opinion is that Kam Wimbley can elevate his play to be a dangerous pass rusher, Curry is not your answer. The Browns need to start their search for a strong sider with Brian Cushing... but don't stop there. Cushing's a bit better playing off the line. But he is a lunch-pale type. Cushing's performance and pedigree could have him going mid-first round. The problem here, is that the Browns have little hope of mining 1st round value out of Cushing given the fact that he's a bit of a mismatch for the position he'll be asked to play. If he wows 'em at the workouts and in the interview room, maybe you take a good hard look at Cushing. But, I'm afraid the Cleveland brass is going to have to dig deeper if they're going to find a legitimate strong side backer in this draft.

 

Now that being said, if the Browns can wiggle their way back toward the middle of the 1st round, there may be a better solution. Florida State's Everette Brown could offer the Browns the opportunity to move Wimbley to the strong side, where his strength and leverage could be put to better use (if not to cover up for a lack of pass rushing ingenuity). Brown is a pass rusher plain and simple. He is arguably the best pure pass rusher in the draft -- Great quicks, and a spin move that would make Karl Wallenda dizzy. The presence of Brown on the roster makes the Browns better... and first round pick better.

 

The only other prospect the Browns should consider should they draft in the teens is LSU DE Tyson Jackson. And that's going to be highly dependent on what they find out in the interviews. 3-4 DE is not a glamour job, and Jackson has been known to be a bit of a glamour player. So, he may disqualify himself. But he is an interesting prospect. Is he the next Richard Seymour? I'm going to go ahead and doubt it. But, even a poor-man's Richard Seymour is worth a look in the middle of Round 1.

 

Now, if the Browns work all the way back into the 20's, Brown and Jackson will be long gone. The boys in brown will then have to turn their attention to the other side of the ball. Early estimates show the bottom of the first round will likely have available two or three impact rookies on offense that fit need areas for the Browns. RB Chris Wells, and WR Hakeem Nicks at the skill positions and C Alex Mack, and T Michael Oher up front.

 

Wells' durability concerns have hurt his draft status, but has the body and talent to be a dominant cold-weather back when healthy. Nicks is meaty receiver who plays physically and catches the ball with his hands. He hasn't shown great speed on film, but gets good separation, and rarely drops a ball he should catch. He's a bit of a gamble in round 1, and you probably don't consider him if Wells is still on the board. But he's a player to pay attention to particularly if his combine numbers (he projects upper 4.5 ish) start him falling toward Round 2.

 

Michael Oher is an enigma... the subject of an fantastic novel by Michael Lewis (the author of Moneyball), Oher was, uh, let's just say, not under review for a Rhodes scholarship. However, he has all the physical tools of a dominant left tackle in the NFL. He may be better suited to RT in the NFL where he can spend more time run blocking, and benefit from the extra personnel when picking up some of the more exotic blitz schemes common in the League.

 

Mack may be the safest pick of the group. He's strong, tough, smart, and the best pure center in the draft since Mangold, and some say better. It just ain't glamorous to pick a center with your #1... which may make it just the right one... see what I mean about boring?

 

As you move into Round 2 and beyond, you have to understand that at this point in the winter, the guys projected from the top of Round 2 to the bottom of Round 4 will shuffle around like a deck of cards. So I'll leave you with a couple of names to watch for. Guys whose play has shown them to be "Mangini" guys.

 

SILB Jasper Brinkley - South Carolina: A custom built Sam with a strong frame and good skills. He's got the tenacity and humility to play the position the way it's drawn up and could be a steal in Round 3-4.

 

SOLB Michael Johnson - Georgia Tech: A nasty cuss of a hybrid DE/OLB. He's got all kinds of flashes, but lacks consistency. The structure of the 3-4 may accentuate his skills, if it doesn't frustrate him in its limitations.

 

S William Moore - Missouri: A bit of a vanilla safety. Studious and sound. He's what I call a stealth tackler. Where some guys like to blow up running backs exiting the line, William has a tendency to drop them to the grass without making any noise. This is not the kind of guy who strikes fear in the hearts of wideouts. But he always seems to be where the ball is. Do you see this "boring" thing happening here...

 

WR Ramses Barden - Cal Poly: Uhhh... big, really big. Runs well, catches the ball. And he's big. Did I say that?

 

Anyway... just some food for thought I hope. I purposely avoided the running backs who will have to separate themselves with the stopwatch in the coming months. But there are some guys out there that already bear noting. Ooh, one obscure one to keep an eye on LB Aaron Clark from Virginia. May miss the draft workouts with the injury that ended his senior season. He'll be looking to catch on with a 3-4 team as an OLB. Just a note.

 

-jj

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Masters]

Awesome as usual. I'd be very happy if CLE could move way back for more picks and get Cushing. As you may have seen, I feel he is actually the best LB coming out of USC.

[calfoxwc]

Great stuff !

 

I think this next draft, a major move, a trade down is almost required for the Browns. There is too much talent in the first 2 rounds, and some in the 3rd.

 

But a trade down and STILL get Everett Brown would delight me...

 

I worry if Rogers gets hurt, or whenever he goes out of the game for a breather, that the defense is toast up the middle.

Radj sp? the NT could help immensely, I don't know if he could play alongside of Rodger for a while...

 

Everette Browns is a monster, outstanding character, and if he can run a 4.6 or under at the combine, man... just even

take him without a trade down. But Cushing is excellent...

1. Everette Brown*, DE/OLB, Florida State

Brown is peaking down the stretch. Six of his nine sacks this season have come in FSU's last three outings. Brown is a bit undersized but he is fast and athletic, and he is a perfect fit as a rush-linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. He is using his initial quickness, body control and closing burst to generate pressure both around the corner and on inside stunts. A fourth-year junior, Brown is practically a lock to bolt school early for the 2009 draft. If that's the case, he will be in the mix to be the first of his kind -- the 'tweener DE/OLB hybrid -- selected.

 

But extra picks in the second and third round would be huge.

 

I still want this kid in the second (but if he falls to a Browns third round pick?(Clay Mathews jr seems to be headed to the bottom of the first depending...):

 

Matt Shaunnessy

Position: DE

School & Year/Status: Wisconsin - Senior

Height & Weight: 6'6 - 253 lbs.

Ranked #83 on our Top 100 Prospects Board

 

2009 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:

 

Matt Shaughnessy, DE, Wisconsin

 

Matt Shaughnessy is the type of player that every coach loves to have on their team. He's not only the hardest worker, he's also extremely talented. Shaughnessy has been incredibly productive during his career at Wisconsin, after taking over a starting role as a sophomore. He's another one of the new breed of college defensive ends.

 

Shaughnessy is small, quick, and hard for big tackles to block. He seems to always be in the backfield disrupting plays, having recorded 33.5 tackles for loss and 11.5 sacks in his first three seasons. Shaughnessy might need to add a little bulk to play every down in the NFL. He plays at 253 pounds right now, and if it doesn't affect his speed, could stand to gain 15 to 20 pounds. He is very alert, and makes all the little plays that make a defense great.

 

Shaughnessy is excellent at using his 6'6" frame to bat balls down at the line of scrimmage. He broke up 9 pass attempts during his career when asked to drop into coverage. Shaughnessy had a slow season in 2008, finishing with only 40 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, and 4 sacks. The Badger senior is probably a third round prospect at this point in time.

 

However, if Shaughnessy can have a productive offseason and run a good time at the NFL Combine, he could go as high as the middle of the second round.

[Guest Aloysius]

Nobody asked me, but I would advise the Browns to steer well clear of Aaron Curry. Curry is a fine player. But he's not enough of anything to fill the Browns need for edge personnel in the 3-4. He's not dynamic enough to be a significant upgrade over Wimbley, and doesn't show the strength and leverage to play his opposite. He's a talent to be sure, but pass.

Ooh, I've finally found my nemesis...

 

I like Curry inside, but do you really think he lacks the strength & leverage to play SOLB? He's looked pretty good playing nine-technique, and his stack & shed ability has been described as "rare" by Nolan Nawrocki of PFW. Seems like that would make him a good fit for the position, at least against the run (he'd need to further develop his pass-rush skills).

[Jason J]

Great stuff !

 

I think this next draft, a major move, a trade down is almost required for the Browns. There is too much talent in the first 2 rounds, and some in the 3rd.

 

But a trade down and STILL get Everett Brown would delight me...

 

I worry if Rogers gets hurt, or whenever he goes out of the game for a breather, that the defense is toast up the middle.

Radj sp? the NT could help immensely, I don't know if he could play alongside of Rodger for a while...

 

Everette Browns is a monster, outstanding character, and if he can run a 4.6 or under at the combine, man... just even

take him without a trade down. But Cushing is excellent...

1. Everette Brown*, DE/OLB, Florida State

Brown is peaking down the stretch. Six of his nine sacks this season have come in FSU's last three outings. Brown is a bit undersized but he is fast and athletic, and he is a perfect fit as a rush-linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. He is using his initial quickness, body control and closing burst to generate pressure both around the corner and on inside stunts. A fourth-year junior, Brown is practically a lock to bolt school early for the 2009 draft. If that's the case, he will be in the mix to be the first of his kind -- the 'tweener DE/OLB hybrid -- selected.

 

But extra picks in the second and third round would be huge.

 

I still want this kid in the second (but if he falls to a Browns third round pick?(Clay Mathews jr seems to be headed to the bottom of the first depending...):

 

Matt Shaunnessy

Position: DE

School & Year/Status: Wisconsin - Senior

Height & Weight: 6'6 - 253 lbs.

Ranked #83 on our Top 100 Prospects Board

 

2009 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:

 

Matt Shaughnessy, DE, Wisconsin

 

Matt Shaughnessy is the type of player that every coach loves to have on their team. He's not only the hardest worker, he's also extremely talented. Shaughnessy has been incredibly productive during his career at Wisconsin, after taking over a starting role as a sophomore. He's another one of the new breed of college defensive ends.

 

Shaughnessy is small, quick, and hard for big tackles to block. He seems to always be in the backfield disrupting plays, having recorded 33.5 tackles for loss and 11.5 sacks in his first three seasons. Shaughnessy might need to add a little bulk to play every down in the NFL. He plays at 253 pounds right now, and if it doesn't affect his speed, could stand to gain 15 to 20 pounds. He is very alert, and makes all the little plays that make a defense great.

 

Shaughnessy is excellent at using his 6'6" frame to bat balls down at the line of scrimmage. He broke up 9 pass attempts during his career when asked to drop into coverage. Shaughnessy had a slow season in 2008, finishing with only 40 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, and 4 sacks. The Badger senior is probably a third round prospect at this point in time.

 

However, if Shaughnessy can have a productive offseason and run a good time at the NFL Combine, he could go as high as the middle of the second round.

 

 

Shaughnessy is exactly the kind of guy I'm talking about when I say that the guys the Browns "need" are littered throughout the draft. Matt's a grinder. Vrabel-esque if you will. He's not likely to dazzle the scouts with measurables, but he's a smart football player, and strong as an ox. And, while I'm on the subject, don't be surprise if Vrabel himself is available and interested in joining the Browns come Feb 27th.

 

And on the NT thing. Don't sleep on Ahtyba Rubin. He's come along nicely in that role, and can play the end spot as well. And Louis Leonard is a workable solution who is also in his first year in the position. I look at that spot on the roster and think, they've got a nice option A... and B and C look pretty good.

 

-jj

[Guest Aloysius]

Matt Shaughnessy is expected to be taken in the 4th or 5th Round (according to nfldraftscout). He's a technically-sound 4-3 DE, but he's not very explosive and needs to put on weight.

 

While some may view him as a 3-4 OLB prospect, I don't really see it.

[Jason J]

Ooh, I've finally found my nemesis...

 

I like Curry inside, but do you really think he lacks the strength & leverage to play SOLB? He's looked pretty good playing nine-technique, and his stack & shed ability has been described as "rare" by Nolan Nawrocki of PFW. Seems like that would make him a good fit for the position, at least against the run (he'd need to further develop his pass-rush skills).

 

 

Absolutely true. But the 9 technique it typically reserved for 4-3 over alignments. The read 3-4 utilizes a lot more 6-technique. And Curry, while strong and athletic, lacks length. At a shade under 6'2", he's not going to have the advantage of burying his inside shoulder and setting the edge on a pivot. He's got to face up 6'5 and 6'6" TE's and steer them. That's a "tall" order so to speak.

 

I don't mean to say he can't do the job. He's just going to come at an awfully high price for what I think you'll get out of him.

 

-jj

[Guest Aloysius]

Fair enough. And like I said, I think he'd be better utilized inside, perhaps sliding outside for the occasional blitz a la Bart Scott.

[Solon16]

great to hear from you JJ are you putting together another Labor intensive 7 rounder again this year? I 'll put my 1st round against anybody...Josh Freeman is going to go super high in this draft...watch for it. Good job as always

[JewDago]

good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?

 

we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).

 

i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.

 

i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.

 

the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.

 

what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.

 

jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.

 

as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.

 

nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.

 

oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.

 

jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.

 

william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.

 

last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.

 

well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.

[DTBH]

Good post, JJ. Completely agree on trading down, at least at the moment. Everyone has been so high on Curry around here, and probably because of Aloy...that guy really knows his shit. But anyway, when I watch Curry's highlights the one thing that sticks out his is length (or lack thereof.) I thought he was a little bit short/short-armed. FWIW, James Harrison has those same problems but I believe he plays Wimbley's side. Maybe a switch would be the right thing. Unless Curry would play on the inside like Aloy says.

 

Trading down seems to be where it is. We can get backers later in the draft and it'll probably mean we stand a better chance of getting one of the top rated running backs. It's less glamorous to trade down and those who aren't really into the draft will be against it, but it's a really fulfulling feeling when you can add 2-3 impact players instead of one likely star.

 

 

[ballpeen]

Good discussion.

 

I agree a trade down would be the ideal. This draft isn't all that top heavy but offers much depth through maybe the early 3rd round. The players maybe worth the 5th pick seem to be players we won't take. Crabtree is one mentioned...I also think a few of the O-linemen would be worth the pick but I get hammered when I mention that around here...so I won't...or I just do that?

 

Every draft seems to produce a slot somewhere in the top 6-7 picks that seems to be the key spot where teams looking to move up feel like they need to go....and this year 5 looks like it has the chance to be that spot.

 

OTs usually generate a lot of interest come draft day....and this is a OT draft for the ages.

There seems to be 2-3 teams directly behind us who may be looking for line help...anybody behind them who wants one of those big OTs is going to have to move in front of them...lets hope that is where we come in!!

 

 

 

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

actually he should wait until draft day to even think about trading the #5 pick. he will get a lot more for it. No team will be willing to give up a whole lot at this point. Teams only give a whole lot for your pick on draft day when a player they have a hard on for is still available and they really want him. At this point they have no idea who is going to fall where in the draft or who they really want.

 

No one makes you pick. you can do what some teams have done in the past and not pick anyone. then the next team goes but you can pick anytime after that.

[calfoxwc]

what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night. JD

************************************

True. What I read, was he was getting, obviously, double teamed so much, he was getting frustrated.

Then, he decided to go wild with different moves, and between one move and another, found he was still

able to sack qb's...

 

Watching Brown get to the qb reminds me of Polymoomoo on a blitz.

Watch some highlights of him... he's scary fast - with a tremendous burst.

And, he can also drop back, he's far more fluid in the hips than a Ghoulston, so "they" say...

 

What do I know? I'm a computer guy farmer, a fisher of fish, a hunter of groundhog and squirrel..

 

(although I'd like to hunt wild turkey next year, and pheasant hunting was fun, but they froze out years ago in winter)

 

[Guest Aloysius]

I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.

I think we could actually use a linebacker who's better in coverage. D'Qwell's athletic enough to play his zone, but he doesn't have the speed to chase RB's and athletic TE's.

 

It'd be nice to have a linebacker who could cover a TE man to man. We thought Leon Williams would do that, but he sucks. What makes it worse is that Sean Jones isn't very good at covering these guys.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).

[Guest Masters]

I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).

 

In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.

[Jason J]

good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?

 

we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).

 

i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.

 

i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.

 

the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.

 

what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.

 

jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.

 

as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.

 

nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.

 

oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.

 

jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.

 

william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.

 

last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.

 

well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.

 

Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.

 

Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.

 

I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.

 

So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.

 

 

-jj

 

[Guest Masters]

Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.

 

Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.

 

I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.

 

So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.

 

 

-jj

 

Wasn't part of the reason he was a walk on because he was so small still coming out of HS and a late bloomer, as far as growing into his build (something like only 185lbs when he left HS)?

[Guest Aloysius]

In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.

True, but I think my broader point still holds. If you re-watch the Dallas game, D'Qwell's inability to chase Witten sideline to sideline out. He also had a bad missed tackle in coverage, allowing Marion Barber to gain an additional 10-15 yards.

 

I'm not saying he's bad in coverage; it's just that he isn't as good as a guy like Bart Scott. And if you have a slow-footed guy starting next to him, you could have a lot of problems.

 

(I think YTown's made this point before)

[Guest Masters]

True, but I think my broader point still holds. If you re-watch the Dallas game, D'Qwell's inability to chase Witten sideline to sideline out. He also had a bad missed tackle in coverage, allowing Marion Barber to gain an additional 10-15 yards.

 

I'm not saying he's bad in coverage; it's just that he isn't as good as a guy like Bart Scott. And if you have a slow-footed guy starting next to him, you could have a lot of problems.

 

(I think YTown's made this point before)

 

I get your point. I wouldn't disagree that there are guys who can do it better than Jackson. But I think my boarder point holds true as well, in that there are only a handful of players at LB/S that can cover Witten.

 

As for the missed tackles, well, that is CLE's D the last several years in a nut shell. No one seems to know how to tackle in space. I am gonna love Mangini doing live tackling drills!

[Guest Aloysius]

Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.

Disagree about English. One of the only negative things I heard about his Senior Bowl week was that he struggled in linebacker drills (at least at first).

 

I think it's more likely that he'll play DE in a Tampa 2 defense than 4-3 SOLB.

[DawgTracker]

Who can be there at #5 that is worth trading up for? Normally that is a QB or LT. Since there seems to be more than one good LT in this draft that is unlikely. I don't think there is a QB in the draft to tempt someone to move up, please convince me I am wrong.

 

I would like to know who has a need that might be there at #5

[Jason J]

I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.

 

Whenever I read about Rey being a thug against the run, a guy who loves to blow up blockers, I think: That's the guy. But certainly not at 5... more like 15 if he's still there.

 

I like the way you think on the Brinkley pick in round 3, which makes more sense in a Steeler-ey kind of way. JJ, what separates Brinkley from Bell? Just Bell's knee and diminished quicks? Or is Brinkley better? If so, I like it, especially with an Everette Brown pick that moves Wimbley to the strong side... and a tailback in round 2.

 

All of this demands that we address offense (center and WR) in free agency. And probably again in round 4. Oh, and it demands that a pick comes in the door for Anderson.

 

Great stuff, JJ. Unlike my certifiable friend Heck, you didn't even mention Raji. Which is just lunacy with Rogers and Rubin.

 

 

The thing is, if you believe that the SILB position is the key position of need, again there are better candidates than Curry. And I believe it is one of the key positions the Browns need to upgrade in '09. The argument can be made that WILB is also a position of need... But, right now, Jackson's the best of the bunch, and you probably want to address other areas before you worry about replacing the second best player on your defense, even if he's not an ideal fit.

 

To your point, Maualuga is much better option for the Browns today.. The upside with Rey is you could slot him in at the strong with the knowledge that he may eventually unseat Jackson at the Mike. Let him bang around a couple of seasons, turn him loose when Jackson leaves via free agency, then re-slot the strong side backer position. It's a workable plan. And precisely what Mangini did with David Harris last season. Harris will be the starting WILB in '09, but he paid his dues in '08.

 

I'm not sure I could find fault with the Browns jockeying to get Maualuga.

 

And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!

 

As far as Bell v. Brinkley... there isn't a lot to go on. Bell couldn't get himself on the field with the Browns in '08. And there's precious little tape from UNLV to go on. But, he has two things working against him:

 

1.) The knee: At his position you worry less about his mobility and more about his faith in the joint. It's a leverage thing. At the strong side backer he has to be able to face up a blocker, get his shins parallel with his forearms and explode into a guard or fullback. If he's got any misgivings about the solvency of that knee, he's going to rotate his trunk to protect it. When he does that he gives up his leverage position and is reduced to guessing which side to pivot to.

 

2.) Well... rumor has it that Beau isn't exactly a quick study. He's a thinker rather than a doer, and... well... his thinker isn't exactly the highest function organ in his body.

 

Brinkley, on the other hand, is a bit bigger guy. He's just built on a larger frame. It's subtle, but you have to look at the way Brinkley uses his extension to create separation at the point of attack. He's not a sideline to sideline defender, but is as strong LB as there is in the draft when it comes to mixing it up in the pit.

 

He's also shown a willingness to play his role inside the defensive scheme. He's a team guy that players and coaches love. He may not be the most athletically gifted, but he's not a liability if you confine his role. He'll likely be on the sideline on 3rd down. But he could be an asset in turning a lot of first-and-tens into second and nines.

 

-jj

[Jason J]

Who can be there at #5 that is worth trading up for? Normally that is a QB or LT. Since there seems to be more than one good LT in this draft that is unlikely. I don't think there is a QB in the draft to tempt someone to move up, please convince me I am wrong.

 

I would like to know who has a need that might be there at #5

 

 

Well, there could be quite a few depending on how it plays out. If Detroit makes a deal for Derrick Anderson (the rumor mill is already grinding on that one), they could conceivably make a run at LT Andre Smith. This could send Mark Sanchez dropping down the board. He could draw interest from the Jets at #17, da Bears at #18, Minnesota at #22 and conceivably Houston at #15.

 

Crabtree could still be there, which speaks for itself. The aforementioned Curry is going to be a draw for several teams. Not to mention, Jeremy Maclin, Brian Orakpo, Malcom Jenkins could be someone's gotta have him guy.

 

-jj

[Guest Aloysius]

And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!

Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.

 

Yes, although I'm impressed with this new addition to Draftnikville, that comparison is pretty shoddy. Baba never dominated the Senior Bowl. Baba wasn't even asked to come to the Senior Bowl. I'm not even sure he was asked to come to the Shrine Game. Baba has never played a meaningful down of NFL football, has been waived by three teams, and is sitting on the Eagles practice squad.

 

Meanwhile, Raji is projected to be picked ahead of where Hampton (#19) and Wilfork (#21) were.

 

Which is why I'd compare him to Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork.

 

PS - I don't mind riding this Raji train solo. More room for my harem.

 

[Guest Masters]

Baba wasn't even asked to come to the Senior Bowl.

 

Huh? He was an invite to the 2006 senior bowl and played in it. He was viewed as the 4th best DT there. Scouting report from there was: Noted for being strong at the point of attack, he can hold up against double-teams. Looked good at Senior Bowl; plays with discipline and a desire to succeed. Career totals include 130 tackles, 30 tackles for loss, and 15 sacks. Most of his success, however, came against weaker opponents.

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Baba struggled in one on one drills at the Senior Bowl.

[Solon16]

Good discussion.

 

I agree a trade down would be the ideal. This draft isn't all that top heavy but offers much depth through maybe the early 3rd round. The players maybe worth the 5th pick seem to be players we won't take. Crabtree is one mentioned...I also think a few of the O-linemen would be worth the pick but I get hammered when I mention that around here...so I won't...or I just do that?

 

Every draft seems to produce a slot somewhere in the top 6-7 picks that seems to be the key spot where teams looking to move up feel like they need to go....and this year 5 looks like it has the chance to be that spot.

 

OTs usually generate a lot of interest come draft day....and this is a OT draft for the ages.

There seems to be 2-3 teams directly behind us who may be looking for line help...anybody behind them who wants one of those big OTs is going to have to move in front of them...lets hope that is where we come in!!

 

Peen ...last year was the OT draft of the ages....same with Running back....Jj no answer, come on

[Guest Masters]

Baba struggled in one on one drills at the Senior Bowl.

 

He did. But that is far different than heck saying he wasn't even invited to it.