Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thought I'd get the whole game graded today, but we ran 34 plays in 5 series this first half... up from 25 in week one. Plus I watched our defensive plays... but that's for another thread. As a reminder here is my "system" such as it is... I grade each OL for each play using: '+' if assignment was achieved; '0' if assignment was not critical to the play; or '-' if assignment was not achieved. If an assignment was key to the success or failure of a given play the above grade may be doubled. Occasionally a "?" will be awarded if after three viwings I have no idea what an assignment was. So without further delay here are Week 2's O-line mid-terms... First half vs. Saints - 5 series/ 34 offensive plays Joe Thomas: +15 -2 for a +13 net Joe garnered 3 Dbl+. His best was a gorgeous outside seal of an LB in Series 3's Play 1. One of his neg plays was almost a "?". He looked lost in Series 4's PA right/ Bubble Screen left and did nothing despite a play being there for him. Joel Bitonio: +17 -5 net +12 Joel had 1 dbl+ and dbl- in his totals. So far he has the game's two O-line trap pulls to his credit. The second, Series 5 Play 2, was very pretty, albeit wasted. Joel is still having some "vision/ decision" issues when faced with on rushing D to either side. He chose wrong twice in the first half... once on a run, once a pass. One of his dbl+'s was a time he did not make a choice, but instead took on two defenders... passing the first to Mack before stopping the 2nd cold. Alex Mack: +10 -5 net +5 Alex started fast this week, but then between the PA boots and the off-tackle and wider runs he was not near enough to the point of attack to score much. He had one of each dbl. The dbl+ for sealing two pursuers away from an OT run right; the dbl- for failing to keep the NT from an unassisted stop of an OT run left for a short gain. John Greco +13 -2 net +11 John posted 2 dbl+ in the half. One for the pancake of the season so far; the other for a beautiful bit of combo zone-blocking with Mitch that John looked to be orchestrating. The combo left John with a beautiful inside seal of one defender (to be continued...). M. Schwartz +8 -7 net +1 .... (sorry, Z... but read on as there is hope) Mitchell had one of each dbl in his tally this half. The dbl- came when a DE's spin move blew up the half's most promising trap play wasting Joel's 2nd pull as mentioned above... the play had a chance of popping. Readers will likely remember the play for West "dancing", but a DE spinin' into your formerly gorgeous hole will set a RB's feet a tappin'. Mitch still has issues handing the outside speed rush, but did not get bulled in the half in part due to the fact that he got his punch back. Used a good two-hander to good effect a couple times. The punch is hope #1... here's #2 and the conclusion to our above cliff hanger... Mitch responded to Greco's arm on his back perfectly... sliding off defender 1 (that he'd set up for John) and onto an LB cutting off the back of defender 1. Mitch sealed in the LB beautifully completing his dbl+. For those who wants tickets to this ballet, they can be had in Series 3 Play 9 with 1:18 left in Q1... Enjoy! (Even though the play only went for 2 yds because Dray failed to seal off/kick out an LB.) Mid-term General Observations 1. I commented last week about our right side firing out higher than the left... not so in Week 2. 2. The line influence that carried over from zone blocked runs to PA passes was nothing short of startling this game, but... 3. ... sooner or later the oppositions D-staff chews a big enough of a chunk out of their players' asses that one or two stay home and are more than happy to level our QB. Sooner or later in this game was Series 5 Play 1. 4. Last week I could not help but notice the O-line looking back for our RB while the play was still live. Noticed none of that this week... so far... 5. Our RB's are a blitz pick up mixed bag... more than willing... mostly able. Have not noticed a missed p/u this week so far, but they now need work on recognizing who they are about to meet. Going low on a D-line and bigger LBs is understandable, but not DBs... a couple of whom flew over attempted blocks landing at our QB's feet (the regular sized ones). 6. Of the RBs... when it comes to blocking TW seems to lead the current pack with Agnew surprisingly lagging it by a fair margin. Crow had a dbl+ for one blitz p/u, but a dbl- for missing another. Ag had a bad day lead blocking to boot; he got a dbl- on our first play. 7. A couple downfield blocks by WRs were discernible in half one... nothing bone-jarring, but detectable from Austin and Hawk... 8. TE blocking was spotty. Sometimes the play design is asking way too much of them, e.g., iso on a DE, but when the assignment is reasonable they bat maybe .750 (guestimate as I have not looked to score them every play). Dray had two dbl+ and one dbl-. Barn had a couple +'s; one for a nice trap block. Anyone caught quoting this post in its entirety to make a one line comment, will be disciplined severely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thanks for the breakdown tour-I suspect 2nd half results will be better, especially 4th Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thanks, Ag... Kind of a tough read tho... I underlined play locations and added a little more paragraph structure to try and make it more readable. Also made one factual edit... Bito had two pulls in the half... and expanded my General Observations with more RB and WR "stuff", and a couple lines on the TEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'm still thankful all our qb's are right handed otherwise JT would have to be brushing up on his RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dste Ace Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Nice breakdown. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I am still not sure I completely buy this, but I appreciate the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Anyone caught quoting this post in its entirety to make a one line comment, will be disciplined severely... Lol. Wow this must've taken some time to review and document all this. Nice to read, especially when I don't have time to study the o-line in that much detail. They have the least thankful job to the majority of fans, unless they clearly mess up or have a key block. (Myself included as well.) I am still not sure I completely buy this, but I appreciate the effort. Curious as to why you say this? I do find it impressive that Tour can tell what all of the assignments are without a Browns playbook in hand, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute that. (No doubt why I find it impressive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 All positive numbers again. THat's a good sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Curious as to why you say this? I do find it impressive that Tour can tell what all of the assignments are without a Browns playbook in hand, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute that. (No doubt why I find it impressive.) Well, it was either Mark Twain or Winston Churchill who said: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Well, it was either Mark Twain or Winston Churchill who said: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics". Mark Twain. -one of my favorite quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Excellent stuff, thanks for sharing. Much appreciated. I'm not a big O-line fan, but more appreciate the reports on the backs. Many great runners don't see the field in early years because they can't pick up a blitz. Sounds like Crowell and West are doing as well in this department as they are carrying the rock so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Thanks Tour - good stuff, as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Wow, nice info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Looking forward to part 2 now that I have seen the seen the full replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Where is part two? I'm paying good money for this! Z --Tell me The Schwartz was with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieDawg Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I love this effort - really enjoy the detail - helping me get some subtleties that are new also thanks. Im going to - yes this is sad - watch the first half tonight (won't be able to sleep as heading to CLE at 0430 tomorrow) with your notes and see if that helps me understand more line play detail. A football addicts life is sweet. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 So, Z... "The check is in the mail?" Lol. Wow this must've taken some time to review and document all this. Nice to read, especially when I don't have time to study the o-line in that much detail. They have the least thankful job to the majority of fans, unless they clearly mess up or have a key block. (Myself included as well.) Curious as to why you say this? I do find it impressive that Tour can tell what all of the assignments are without a Browns playbook in hand, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute that. (No doubt why I find it impressive.) Yup... usually only gross failures that get a RB or QB blown up make replay, but the reason a run only goes for 3 yds usually goes unnoticed. Similar can be said about positive efforts. As far as "all of the assignments"... that's where the Zone scheme is really analysis friendly. The assignments are pretty much run left or run right... lol... In good old-fashioned, drive-pull-trap power schemes Rule #1 is "man over or inside". In the zone they do so much "over or outside" it's mind-blowing to an O-line fossil like me. Even more mind-blowing is that they make it work... Also as I said in the OP, the way they pass defenders off is way beyond anything I'm used to seeing. Especially this week... This unit is growing... Excellent stuff, thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.[/size] Sounds like Crowell and West are doing as well in this department as they are carrying the rock so far?[/size] You're welcome and thank you... Crowell's good, but West in particular seems to have good blitz-vision. He missed one p/u week one, but none in Week 2's first half. Now it looks like seeing who is blitzing is the next step. He's tending to meet bigger LBs high and smaller DBs low... kinda bass-ackwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Second Half Grades We ran 41 plays in 4 series in our second half. Joe Thomas: +15 -11 net +4 By his standards Joe had a bad half. He registered no dbl+, but 5... yes 5... dbl-'s starting with his holding penalty. He had issues with the outside speed rush much of the half including a sack of BH in the last drive. He whiffed on one critical point of attack block. Joel Bitonio: +20 -2 net +18 Joel had a true lunch-bucket half in which he did not register a single dbl of either type. His only trap pull of the half was wasted when West chose the wrong gap. One thing was obvious this half... Joel has a motor. Motor's a term you generally associate with D-linemen, but it applies to Bito. He's inexhaustible... always looking for the next target until the whistle blows... Alex Mack: +21 -4 net +17 Speaking of motors... damn, but Alex is earning his money. His half included 2 dbl+ and one dbl-. Odd thing about the dbl- is that it came on the heels of a +. He turned a D-line nicely to pass to Grecco, but then whiffed on his 2nd lvl LB who blew up a run. He gave up one pressure of BH when the NT got him with a nice rip. Otherwise his pass protection was solid. Alex hustled his ass off to get a downfield block on the bubble screen to Gabe in our winning drive... did not get a block (or a +), but he hustled. John Greco +18 -4 net +14 John had no dbl+. He had a dbl- when he missed an LB shooting into his gap. The LB proceeded to blow up a promising run by Crow in our 7th series. Of even greater concern were a couple of "things" he got away with in our 7th series, which resulted in a TD. In Play #10, a 21 yd run at the 5:18 mark, it looked like he got away with a hold. On the series' final play, West's TD, it looked very much like John cut a D-line who was still in contact with Mack up high. Mack was moving onto the 2nd level where he made a great block (for a dbl+), so Alex may have disengaged, but... M. Schwartz +17 -15 +2 Mitch got his only dbl+ on the above TD play. In all he received 4 dbl-, including three in a row at the start of our game winning drive where he... well... watch for yourself... series starts at 2:26 mark. But he recovered to achieve a net zero for the rest of the drive.... so there's that. Again... Mitch simply cannot move well enough to handle speed rush. He was beaten badly by one with Greco waiting inside to help. Even when he only had the outside to worry about, he could not cut off the rusher. Why he cannot punch them like he does bigger, slower DEs I do not know. As effective as the couple of punches he threw this half were in stopping bigs, you'd think the smaller speed guys would go down... Did I mention he had a dbl+? It was pretty... General observations 1. The line posted their first straight + pass play... the 4th and 9 pass to Barn in the final drive. Best, cleanest pocket Brian saw all day. Setting aside the possible illegal cut, they also posted their first straight + run play... West's TD run. And it included dbl+ blocks by Mack and Mitch to boot. Both plays should be available for your viewing pleasure in our video highlights. They are worth watching... 2. A couple WRs got into the blocking act and earned dbl +'s. On our 7th Series' opening play the Goliath pair of Hawk and Moore were split right. They delivered a textbook X-block on a pair of DBs that Crow then split for a 9-yd gain. Might still be running... but for a certain OT that did not sustain his block of an LB... On the very next play Hawk got a dbl- for olaying a db downfield. Fame is fleeting... 3. Barn had a nice trap block in Q4. He and Drey were both good, not great blockers in the half. Barn gets a total pass though because of his 4th down catch... 4. West was again a mixed bag in his blitz p/u's. But in the last drive, when NO dialed up some serious heat, West sucked it up and went 4 for 5. His one miss was not the determining factor in the play's failure (pass was batted at the line by you-know-whose opposite). I think West did miss two "holes" in the half carrying the ball. 5. Crow is seriously getting with this one-cut program... At the 5:54 mark of Q3 he punished a NO Safety at the end of a 6-yd run 6. It's time to give some credit to Andy Moeller (O-Line Coach) and George DeLeone (Asst O-line Coach). They are building one helluva unit. 7. Also time to give some love to Wilbert Montgomery (RBs Coach). Our young RBs have talent, but Wilbert has quickly shaped them into more than anyone had a reason to expect. Final, Week 2 grades coming right up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Week 2: Final Grades 9 series/ 75 offensive plays Joe Thomas: +30 -13 net +17 C Joel Bitonio : +37 - 7 net +30 A+ Alex Mack... : +31 - 9 net +22 B- John Greco. : +31 - 6 net +25 B M. Schwartz : +25 -22 net + 3 D- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Bitonio looking a great pick, thanks for your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Bitonio is looking all-world right now. Damn sure proving the draft pick was correct. JT is a competitor so I'm not really worried about the left side as the season progresses. Let's hope Schwartz picks it up as several here predict he will based on his play last year as the season went on. This is turning into the kind of line this team needs to go with a defense that never gets caught scoreboard watching like Tampa Bay did last night on both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Week 2: Final Grades 9 series/ 75 offensive plays Joe Thomas: +30 -13 net +17 C Joel Bitonio : +37 - 7 net +30 A+ Alex Mack... : +31 - 9 net +22 B- John Greco. : +31 - 6 net +25 B M. Schwartz : +25 -22 net + 3 D- OK, I concede Schwartz is the weak link so far ... on a very good OL. Any chance your scoring system favors interior lineman, because they don't have the riskier assignments or tougher opponents? Not being a smart ass, just asking. Like when you compare a second baseman's fielding percentage with a third baseman's ... much more room for error on the hot corner. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbus Brownie Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 OK, I concede Schwartz is the weak link so far ... on a very good OL. Any chance your scoring system favors interior lineman, because they don't have the riskier assignments or tougher opponents? Not being a smart ass, just asking. Like when you compare a second baseman's fielding percentage with a third baseman's ... much more room for error on the hot corner. Zombo Fair question and a good point, finally. Schwartz is bad. We need him to achieve his assignments this week v Baltimore's blitzing OLB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 OK, I concede Schwartz is the weak link so far ... on a very good OL. Any chance your scoring system favors interior lineman, because they don't have the riskier assignments or tougher opponents? Not being a smart ass, just asking. Like when you compare a second baseman's fielding percentage with a third baseman's ... much more room for error on the hot corner. Very fair question taken in the spirit it was intended... asshole... What you suggest may well be the case, Z, especially for pass plays. The end of the line in battle always carries the added risk of being outflanked to being overrun. I also agree that the OTs face the biggest potential mismatches, or at least the widest variety of talent... strong bulls vs. fast speedsters. In pass protection the OTs seem far more likely to fail physically than their interior counterparts. The potential for mental failures are probably close to the same across the O-line (excepting the Center given his line call responsibilities, but I have no way of judging this). I don't think the same can be said for run plays. Physical failure potentials seem to equalize while mental remains level. This may be even more true in our zone scheme. In the 1st two games there have been a couple times when I did not give a - for a failed assignment, because the apparent assignment looked to be undoable. For grins I looked at Mitch's negs and of his -22 total, half were earned in runs, and half in passes. Three of his four dbl -'s came on run plays; his one dbl+ was a run play. As mentioned above Mitch is the weakest link... physically and mentally. That's a bad combo made even worse in a zone scheme. Yet there are times when he absolutely wows me. Then there are times like Series 9 Play 3 (around Q4's 2:30 mark) when: West ran over left guard; Greco and Mitch cut across to shallow downfield in lock step; John engaged Defender 1 and slid to Defender 2, passing D1 to Mitch; Mitch promptly passed D1 to West... and D1 made the tackle after a 4-yd gain that could have been more. I do have to note that there were only a handful of plays where it appeared an assist for Mitch was in the design. Then again, I am hard pressed to think of any plays where assists seemed to be designed for any other O-lineman. Mitch may well improve as the season progresses. Lord knows until he does, other teams are going to supply plenty of opportunities for him to strengthen his weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Bitonio is looking all-world right now. Damn sure proving the draft pick was correct. JT is a competitor so I'm not really worried about the left side as the season progresses. Let's hope Schwartz picks it up as several here predict he will based on his play last year as the season went on. This is turning into the kind of line this team needs to go with a defense that never gets caught scoreboard watching like Tampa Bay did last night on both sides of the ball. Which kind of backs my point that we shouldn't burn high first round skill player picks on OL, when we can get solid "all world" performance further down the list......Bitonio is freaking solid.....love this guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Which kind of backs my point that we shouldn't burn high first round skill player picks on OL, when we can get solid "all world" performance further down the list......Bitonio is freaking solid.....love this guy! lol... there are those *cough cough Ghoulie cough cough* that will argue a 2nd is too high for a "dime-a-dozen O-lineman"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Any count on how many times a back or TE was assigned to chip on Schwartz side? I'm sure there's no approximate count you have - a guess would be interesting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Which kind of backs my point that we shouldn't burn high first round skill player picks on OL, when we can get solid "all world" performance further down the list......Bitonio is freaking solid.....love this guy! An all-world guard is a far different animal from an all-world OT, especially the blind side. But a mostly running team needs an all-world at both OT's. And a team with a not so fast/elusive QB also needs that. That's just a fact or the opponent knows you will favor running left on most runs and knows to attack the weaker OT on passes. A first rounder for an OT is fully justified when you have 2 first round choices to make. Let's all just hope Schwartz just picks it up a couple notches ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Let's all just hope Schwartz just picks it up a couple notches ASAP. That would be the best option....right there(fingers crossed).....he will be severely tested on Sunday(fingers crossed again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Any count on how many times a back or TE was assigned to chip on Schwartz side? I'm sure there's no approximate count you have - a guess would be interesting though. I do watch for chips and noted none this week, but doesn't mean there wasn't any help intended. Either a TE chip could have been called that was voided by an outside blitz or a RB chip that was voided by an inside blitz. There were times when Greco's task was definitely shaded towards his OT. I did note earlier the play where he was on Mitch's left hip and Mitch still got beat with an outside speed rush that produced a "pressure" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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