Dumpster diving

[Zombo]

 

Three things...

1. This is rebuild #1 for this FO.
2. This rebuild is different than any that preceded it.
3. No one is seriously predicting playoffs for this team... and that's different, too.

Now are they doing it right? Is "different" going to be better? Fuck if I know... but I will be watching for signs. And in the absence of their being illuminated by "W's", I think I will have to look very hard.

 

As for the Dark Side? I doubt it will get crowded. I don't think expectations will be high enough to drive folks that direction... not this year.

 

 

Three things...

1. This is rebuild #1 for this FO. YES!
2. This rebuild is different than any that preceded it. YES!
3. No one is seriously predicting playoffs for this team... and that's different, too. Yyyy ... UH OH. The Great Zomboni releases his reknowned predictions this week, and he has never NOT predicted my Brownies in the playoffs. (And he was right in 2002!!) So why change now ... Tradition is fun.

Zombo

[Flugel]

 

 

 

OK Flugs- and this is addressed to Zombo too- here's where I'm coming from. Can't remember who, but someone had a sig line- "CLEVELAND BROWNS, REBUILDING SINCE 1999, WHY STOP NOW?" Sorry, but this crap has just gotten really, really, REALLY old for me. Hell, the Panthers made the Super Bowl, tore the team down, went to another Super Bowl, and the Browns have done jack shit in the meantime.

 

We're currently into (pick a number, I've lost count) blow it all up- rebuild. Anyone who thinks we're going to win more than a couple games this year- well, Zombo- if a Browns fan believes that- sell them some prime Florida Swampland real estate. But yeah- THIS time it's gonna be different. Yada, yada, yada. Well f**king SHOW ME this time it's going to be different, before I invest an ounce of energy in belief. MHO? Haslam is taking a huge risk. Putting a bean counter (Sashi) and a baseball analytics guy (DePodesta) in charge. If it blows up in his face- he's wearing the village idiot hat in the entire NFL.

 

So we're being asked to be patient- yet again. I suppose we don't have any choice in the matter. I'm not buying in until I see the progress is for real this time. & I'm not getting my hopes up to have them crushed for the 10th + time. Patience? As the one Buzzard said to the other Buzzard- "patience my ass, I'm gonna kill something."

 

PS- my prediction- by the break, plenty of fickle fans will have drifted over to the Ghoolie Dark Side. "let the anger and frustration FLOW through you son."

 

Larry, I get your frustration knowing you've followed this team forever. That said, you're blaming guys that weren't even here for why you feel this way today. I'm just trying to help you channel where this needs to be placed.

 

That's why I told you nobody has a pistol to your head when I merely asked you why is THIS brand new regime all of a sudden is the one that deserves all the blame for previous sins of others before this team has played its first regular season game. After fessing up to how much money you're paying out for an entertainment value that feels like food poisoning - you proceeded to tell me you just wanted to be "realistic" after I read another one of your "this team will be lucky to win 1 game" predictions. That looks like a lot of frustration clouding what you're trying to get across. Of course, we should be well trained to for gotta see it to believe it. But has that ever been a Cleveland Browns fan signed up for since the 70s? Fan isn't just a prefix of fantastic. It's a prefix of something where words like realistic don't apply.

 

The reason I GET where Mud is coming from is because he tried to tell everyone that wanted 100% of all the blame on Pettine and staff that they were working around a ton of past and present front office land mines. He had a passionate argument so I can't blame him for asking why does THIS head Coach deserve excuses the last one didn't deserve? Then again, we haven't even played our first regular season game...

 

Again, you're blasting this regime for their efforts/desire to correct way more land mines than they should have inherited.

 

Who ended up drafting Justin Gilbert instead of Khalil Mack? Do you even fathom how much that one 4th overall pick could have SOLVED our problem with the pass rush? Some of the previous regimes were going O for 2 in the first round on multiple occasions. Yeah, blame this regime for why that kicked us back so far behind the competition today.

 

This regime increased our first draft volume up to 14 selections. In the process, they also bulked up next year's draft volume (including another 1st and 3rd round pick). Now, they're trading sissies in mini skirts to Pittsburgh and Carolina for 2018 picks. That's called vision that our previous deaf, dumb and blind running the show couldn't do but they sho played a mean pinball.

 

This regime is still bringing in upgrades over what was here. If you're watching a 400 meter race why freak out when they're only 20 meters into it or before the race even starts? That's what you've been doing all off season and into the preseason. Do you really miss Ray Farmer or the tea sipping fag before him that drafted Bark Mingo in the first round? Yeah, if the guy can't tackle any body on film at the college level - you MIGHT want to red flag that sucker in upper round 1.

 

This regime is getting rid of the Manziels, Gilberts and Bark but no bitesies that the previous regimes brought here. Haven't you been complaining about those 3 guys forever? The new regime actually received exchange value for Gilbert within our own division and from New England. That's a Harvard intellect pulling that off.

 

It's not like anyone in here is predicting flawless football in 2016. That said, how many have canceled DirecTV? Season Tickets? Road trips? That means we have a lot of fans that want to see what this team win regardless of how cool it is to pretend the 2016 season is a complete waste of time. Does anyone really stop life every Sunday afternoon because they think their favorite team is going to get completely rathoused all game long? No. Somewhere deep down, they feel that "on any given Sunday" or "this may be the day it all changes." And practice makes perfect when we think of how many times we rinsed and repeated that sucker since 1999. Every once in a while, we pull a 2002 or a 2007 season out of our ass. THAT is why you're paying cake to see this team play this year Larry.

[calfoxwc]

The Browns will no longer keep building the Browns' house on weak and shifting sands.

 

They are starting with a solid foundation for once and for all.

 

They have drafted differently, and have built the team differently.

 

guys who LOVE THE GAME, and have the work ethic, lockerroom presense, character

and toughness, football IQ.

 

If you don't fit, don't let the door hit. They drafted players that DO fit, so they are keeping em.

 

Exciting stuff !

[Flugel]

The Browns will no longer keep building the Browns' house on weak and shifting sands.

 

They are starting with a solid foundation for once and for all.

 

They have drafted differently, and have built the team differently.

 

guys who LOVE THE GAME, and have the work ethic, lockerroom presense, character

and toughness, football IQ.

 

If you don't fit, don't let the door hit. They drafted players that DO fit, so they are keeping em.

 

Exciting stuff !

 

Thatta boy Cal! If you're going to go into a game on Sunday would you rather have a game face like this or one that says we need to forfeit so we I complain and brag I predicted it?

[Zombo]

The Browns will no longer keep building the Browns' house on weak and shifting sands.

 

They are starting with a solid foundation for once and for all.

 

They have drafted differently, and have built the team differently.

 

guys who LOVE THE GAME, and have the work ethic, lockerroom presense, character

and toughness, football IQ.

 

If you don't fit, don't let the door hit. They drafted players that DO fit, so they are keeping em.

 

Exciting stuff !

 

Exactly.

 

If one play defined this team this preseason it was our 14th of 14 draft picks stuffing a goal line stand in the second half of the last preseason game to make the team.

 

And you didn't have to be one of their draft picks to make the team, look at guys like Dominique Alexander, Cam Johnson and Trey Howard who played their way on to the team with hard work and determination.

 

This was a test. Soft as Shit MIngo ... Gone. Afraid To Make a Tackle Lee ... Gone. Too Slow To Get To the QB Anymore Kruger ... Gone. Whiny Entitled Bitch Gilbert ... Gone.

 

Young guys willing to put it all on the line to have an NFL career ... here.

 

That's who we are growing with. Cut down the dead wood and build, build, build.

 

Start over with only the right guys who fit the mold and work hard. It's as simple as that.

 

Those that aren't good enough ... we gotta whole 'nother draft next year ... 2 first rounders ... 2 second rounders ... a third rounder ... three fouth rounders ... three fifth rounders.

 

There's a 11 guys coming in next year that want to take your job ... better not rest on your laurels now that you've made the team .... get out there and work your ass off for a shot at a second contract.

 

Zombo

[Flugel]

 

Exactly.

 

If one play defined this team this preseason it was our 14th of 14 draft picks stuffing a goal line stand in the second half of the last preseason game to make the team.

 

And you didn't have to be one of their draft picks to make the team, look at guys like Dominique Alexander, Cam Johnson and Trey Howard who played their way on to the team with hard work and determination.

 

This was a test. Soft as Shit MIngo ... Gone. Afraid To Make a Tackle Lee ... Gone. Too Slow To Get To the QB Anymore Kruger ... Gone. Whiny Entitled Bitch Gilbert ... Gone.

 

Young guys willing to put it all on the line to have an NFL career ... here.

 

That's who we are growing with. Cut down the dead wood and build, build, build.

 

Start over with only the right guys who fit the mold and work hard. It's as simple as that.

 

Those that aren't good enough ... we gotta whole 'nother draft next year ... 2 first rounders ... 2 second rounders ... a third rounder ... three fouth rounders ... three fifth rounders.

 

There's a 11 guys coming in next year that want to take your job ... better not rest on your laurels now that you've made the team .... get out there and work your ass off for a shot at a second contract.

 

Zombo

 

It's refreshing to read guys that get the refreshing changes adding draft volume while removing bad investments and entitled complacency in here.

 

Guinness on Flugel + Joe Thomas jersey on Ghoolie = Welcome to Nashville

[miktoxic]

hey you blamed pettine. i'll blame hue. you blamed farmer and i'll blame sushi and depoopa.

 

who's right in the end when it all turns to shit anyway?

 

that's why hiring these 'project' guys is insane. you have enuff money to build truck stops up and down and through the midwest but 'let's' be cautious and go with some kids and a dream.

 

fuck that roll open up the bank roll for a proven GM and a proven HC and be done with it.

 

"let's wait and see!" "it's exciting!" man, what are you 25 years old? when you hit my age after watching this shit show for the last 4 decades last thing i wanna hear is "wait and see!"

 

been there. done that.

[Tour2ma]

3. No one is seriously predicting playoffs for this team... and that's different, too. Yyyy ... UH OH. The Great Zomboni releases his reknowned predictions this week, and he has never NOT predicted my Brownies in the playoffs. (And he was right in 2002!!) So why change now ... Tradition is fun.

 

Yes, it is... thus my use of "seriously"...

 

May TGZ live forever!

[Flugel]

hey you blamed pettine. i'll blame hue. you blamed farmer and i'll blame sushi and depoopa.

 

who's right in the end when it all turns to shit anyway?

 

that's why hiring these 'project' guys is insane. you have enuff money to build truck stops up and down and through the midwest but 'let's' be cautious and go with some kids and a dream.

 

fuck that roll open up the bank roll for a proven GM and a proven HC and be done with it.

 

"let's wait and see!" "it's exciting!" man, what are you 25 years old? when you hit my age after watching this shit show for the last 4 decades last thing i wanna hear is "wait and see!"

 

been there. done that.

 

I didn't blame anyone for us improving to 7-9 in 2014. No reason to during temporary progress. And, my final verdict on Pettine in January was it wasn't all his fault. I wrote a gigantic post explaining why a bigger pictured conclusion was necessary as well as crediting Mud for part of the about face.

 

So how many regular season games have we got clobbered to justify your blaming of Hue prior to our first regular season game? You might want to get your underwear off before you power shoot...

 

You know I enjoy the Hell out of you Mik but do you ever read why I said what I said before jumping all over it? Remember when I told you Roger Goodell would win the power struggle with Tom Brady? Did I fess up when I was wrong? And now that I was actually right, have you fessed up? I know you know what I'm talking about here because you had me LMAO 1 hour after I guaranteed Roger Goodfella wasn't going to lose a power struggle with any player.

[calfoxwc]

when you hit my age after watching this shit show for the last 4 decades last thing i wanna hear is "wait and see!" Mik

********************************************************************

only four decades? Pouty young-timer. I was an avid Browns fan since I was too young to remember.

I went to a Browns game before I was born, and I am retired now. Get rid of the tic, Mik! Get out of the box, Tox !

This is a profound different direction for the Browns - it's what a lot of folks have thought was needed for a long time.

The past no longer defines the present.

[Tour2ma]

Released names that caught my eye... off updated "wire": http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691151/article/nfl-roster-cuts-tracker-teams-trimming-to-53-players

 

TBH, not even sure why on some, but some memory somewhere (hopefully good) was stirred. Not going to vet them further than whether their position matches an area of strength for the releasing team because by the time I did, it'll all be over. I've bolded the ones I think pass this test.

 

AZ : CB Harlan Miller

BLT: C Matt Skura

BUF: LB Kroy Biermann, CB Mario Butler, RB Dan Herron, LB Manny Lawson, OT Chris Martin, G Cyril Richardson, LB Max Valles

CAR: G David Yankey

 

CHI: DE Ego Ferguson

CIN: OT Aaron Epps

DNV: RB Ronnie Hillman

DET: DT Caraun Reid

 

HOU: OG Karim Barton, WR Cecil Shorts III

IND:

JAX: LB Jordan Tripp

KC : OL Reid Fragel

 

LA : DE Ian Seau

MIA: G Jamil Douglas

MN : G Willie Beavers

NE : RB Tyler Gaffney, OL Chris Barker

 

NO : C Jack Allen, T Khalif Barnes

NYG: OL Ryan Seymour, DT Louis Nix, CB Leon McFadden, CB Michael Hunter

NYJ: TE Jace Amaro, CB Dee Milliner, RB Antone Smith, FB Tommy Bohanon, G Craig Watts, LB Trevor Reilly, LB Taiwan Jones

OAK: LB John Lotulelei, DE Greg Townsend Jr.

 

PHI: S Ed Reynolds - intrigues me as a hybrid LS/S player

PTG: LB Travis Feeney

SD : OLB Ben Gardner, FB Chris Swain

SEA: G Jahri Evans

 

TB : LB Luke Rhodes

TN : OL Jeremiah Poutasi, OL Will Poehls, LB Curtis Grant, CB Kalan Reed, LB Justin Staples

WSH: LB Lynden Trail

[nickers]

I'm wih Larry on this.. I'm sick of being asked to be patient after one shit show to the next.. sorry if that doesnt jive with any of you folks here.. but I'm not here to kiss anyones ass just because they believe a would be bean counter and a "Anal-Littiks" guy from baseball is gonna turn it around.. I'm in My early 50's.. I'm getting sick of the same old song and dance year in and year out... I'm not up there with Larry and Mike yet.. but not far behind... I'm sick of being asked to... "wait"

[calfoxwc]

it....is......not....the.....same......old.............song...........and............dance.

[nickers]

it....is......not....the.....same......old.............song...........and............dance.

yes

 

it

 

is!

[gumby73]

Released names that caught my eye... off updated "wire": http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691151/article/nfl-roster-cuts-tracker-teams-trimming-to-53-players

 

TBH, not even sure why on some, but some memory somewhere (hopefully good) was stirred. Not going to vet them further than whether their position matches an area of strength for the releasing team because by the time I did, it'll all be over. I've bolded the ones I think pass this test.

 

AZ : CB Harlan Miller

BUF: LB Kroy Biermann, CB Mario Butler, LB Max Valles

 

 

CIN: OT Aaron Epps

 

 

JAX: LB Jordan Tripp

KC : OL Reid Fragel

 

LA : DE Ian Seau

 

NYJ: TE Jace Amaro, CB Dee Milliner,

OAK: LB John Lotulelei, DE Greg Townsend Jr. ***Trade for both***

 

PHI: S Ed Reynolds - intrigues me as a hybrid LS/S player

PTG: LB Travis Feeney

SEA: G Jahri Evans

 

TN : OL Jeremiah Poutasi,

 

Combo of any of them would suit me Tour. Some rooks can fall to PS

[LogicIsForSquares]

Offensive linemen off the trash heap, even if they are just depth, would be nice.

[Tour2ma]

it....is......not....the.....same......old.............song...........and............dance.

 

Agree... and I know dancing...

[hoorta]

it....is......not....the.....same......old.............song...........and............dance.

PROVE IT !!! Before I jump on The Happy Train.

The season starts in a week. I'll try hard to not upset the sunshine pumpers in the meantime.

[LogicIsForSquares]

PROVE IT !!! Before I jump on The Happy Train.

The season starts in a week. I'll try hard to not upset the sunshine pumpers in the meantime.

Well you can embrace the alternative of moping and being a giant cry baby. You have company around here.

[hoorta]

Well you can embrace the alternative of moping and being a giant cry baby. You have company around here.

 

I don't mope, & I don't cry. I'm way past that stage. Way too many losses in the last ten years to get upset when the Browns lose. I'm numb to the losses. This is a very young team, with a lot of rookies and an entirely new system. The preseason was a disorganized mess.

 

When I see signs of progress maybe I might get excited again. As was said above- just because we're trying something off the wall doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work. I mean really- some guys are going to get all warm and fuzzy seeing Ogbah and Nassib play well when we lose by 20? Yeah- I get it's going to take time, and I get we're probably going to lose a lot of games this year- screw moral victories.

[Mudfly]

Well you can embrace the alternative of moping and being a giant cry baby. You have company around here.

Problem is that anybody that isnt on the happy delusional train is considered a moper, whiner or cry baby.....IE: If you have any opinion outside of ....'the Browns, Hue & Shashi are GREAT!".....then you are a cry baby...

 

Sheesh....

 

It's just as tiring reading all the overt optimism about the same shit every single year and "all the stars" we just drafted and how "this time" it's being done right....... with very little "honest" criticism or negative critiques, even when fully merited....

 

If we all just get on the happy train and pretend everything is being done perfectly, wouldn't every discussion just be a bunch of "this is great"....yep....I agree....me too....yep....Great it is!.....yessir!....yep....you are so right....yep,,,,,I agree 100%.....^^^this^^^.....

 

Blech....we need some honesty, just for the discussion, if nothing else....

[Flugel]

 

I don't mope, & I don't cry. I'm way past that stage. Way too many losses in the last ten years to get upset when the Browns lose. I'm numb to the losses. This is a very young team, with a lot of rookies and an entirely new system. The preseason was a disorganized mess.

 

 

What was disorganized about evaluating who stays and who sprays? Did you disagree with a lot of the cuts or something?

[nickers]

I'm with Larry on this.. I'm not getting excited until I'm given a reason.. the old addage.. "Prove it"

[LogicIsForSquares]

Problem is that anybody that isnt on the happy delusional train is considered a moper, whiner or cry baby.....IE: If you have any opinion outside of ....'the Browns, Hue & Shashi are GREAT!".....then you are a cry baby...

 

Sheesh....

 

It's just as tiring reading all the overt optimism about the same shit every single year and "all the stars" we just drafted and how "this time" it's being done right....... with very little "honest" criticism or negative critiques, even when fully merited....

 

If we all just get on the happy train and pretend everything is being done perfectly, wouldn't every discussion just be a bunch of "this is great"....yep....I agree....me too....yep....Great it is!.....yessir!....yep....you are so right....yep,,,,,I agree 100%.....^^^this^^^.....

 

Blech....we need some honesty, just for the discussion, if nothing else....

There is a fine line between having healthy skepticism (anyone here with a brain should) and just bagging on everything done by the new front office as if some previous GM for the Browns had done some stellar job.

 

I am willing to see how it goes before deciding that every decision made now is the worst thing ever. You don't fall under that umbrella but a bunch of couch GMs here certainly dwell there.

[D Bone]

For all the skeptics and even the Raw-Rawers, it's far too early to be either. Not one of you (either way) has any baseline whatsoever to bitch, cry or proclaim this FO/coaching staff/draft/team is the next dynasty...... I don't want to hear about 4 measly fucking pre-season games being any type of baseline, so don't bring it, cause it's bullshit.

 

There has been a MASSIVE turnover in players from last year, with some of our heaviest dead weights playing somewhere else - and hell, the FO even got a lil' something for them besides the bucket of chicken that I thought they would get - so by the middle of the season we should all have a deeper baseline to go off of, and then the criers can start to whale, or hopefully for all our sakes, the Raw-Rawers will start to I told you so.

 

But seriously, damn, the opener is less than a week away and we're currently undefeated, we should all be focused on where we are watching, and how loud were gonna cheer, and oh yea, fuck the Eagles and all that that implies, cuz after all, it's opening fucking day.

[hoorta]

 

What was disorganized about evaluating who stays and who sprays? Did you disagree with a lot of the cuts or something?

 

Did you happen to watch the Chinese Fire drill we were running both on offense and defense trying to evaluate all that new talent? Now that it's regular season, every rookie were going to trot out there Sunday will miraculously be in the right position to make plays? Way too many dumb penalties.

 

Regarding the cuts, I was mildly disappointed the Browns dropped Tuggle and Watson, but I don't watch coaches film either. I had no problems shipping out Mingo and Gilbert.

 

I saw the same problems game after game in August. As was pointed out- it was our vanilla against their vanilla. Minimal or no pass rush. Sheldon damn near invisible. Run defense sucked. Cornerbacks out of position, and couldn't tackle worth a damn when they were. O-line resembled a sieve. RG III inaccurate short, held the ball too long, and was getting killed. (he won't last three games at that rate), and I loved McCown throwing passes 15 feet over the intended WR. Kessler looked really, really bad game 4. Will he improve? We'll see, but the 20\20 hindsight guys are 100% correct right now- he's a POS compared to Dak Prescott.

 

So take to heart what Mud just said- just because some of us have very valid reasons for skepticism doesn't make us any less fans. We've heard it all before about NOW it's all going to be better with Savage, Holmgren, Lombardi, and Farmer running the show. Some of us are not here to sit around the campfire and sing kumbayah on how great it's going to be. As I posted in another thread, Sashi and Depodesta have proved one thing so far- they're very good at stockpiling future draft picks. If they can draft 4 future HOFers in 2017 (like the Steelers did one year back in the 70s) we might be on the right track for a change.

[Mudfly]

The good news is this George Atkinson guy looks like he had a hell of a preseason.....maybe a good add to the RB corps...

 

had one opportunity to return a kick and took it 80+ yds to the house......and had.....

 

19 rushes for 190 yds and 3 TD's....considering our best rusher had 79 yds and our whole team only scored 5 TD's???.....

[D Bone]

The good news is this George Atkinson guy looks like he had a hell of a preseason.....maybe a good add to the RB corps...

 

had one opportunity to return a kick and took it 80+ yds to the house......and had.....

 

19 rushes for 190 yds and 3 TD's....considering our best rusher had 79 yds and our whole team only scored 5 TD's???.....

 

He looked as good as his stats Mud. I literally said out loud, "why can't our RBs run like this dude" .......... very stoked to see where this might go. He did drop a couple of EZ passes, including what would have been a TD, but he looked decisive and explosive.

[The Gipper]

Sharkey sounds fishy. Shankey a bad FG kicker. He's name is Sankey & for years I called him Stankey Who knew?

His name is Bishop Sankey....and he is from Wadsworth