Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm sure this is a thread somewhere, I remember posting in it - I just couldn't find it for some reason. This is a carry over from a post I had in the Collins thread, it got me thinking about our full offseason ahead of us and what I envision as being the best course of action given the capital we currently have and the holes we need to fill. This, IMO, gives us the best return given what I believe our defense will consist of under Williams. It's also slightly contrarian to some extent: SCENARIO #1 - Free Agency - Eric Berry, FS - I include him here solely because he fits every criteria I see us looking for in a FA target. This isn't shoehorning a top prospect into being a fit. He's just legitimate fit for us. The prevalent thought is that we won't be spending money in FA, however I don't believe that is the case. I think we won't be spending stupid money. You'd be hard pressed to find an argument against Berry for us outside of overpayment, and even then, we can afford it. Trumaine Johnson, CB - I only include him here because of Williams. He seems like a logical fit as well. Luke Joeckel, G - We need interior OL help/depth. Matt Kalil, T - We need OT depth. It's likely that Erving will work at T this year again. I'd like him to have legit competition outside of Pasztor so we don't end up gifting him the job. Draft - Round 1, Pick 1 - Trade #1 pick with New York Jets. Receive #6, #39, 2018 first round pick. Why Jets? Jets are in the market for an EDGE and, assuming Shanny goes to SF and signs Garrropppolllo (IDGAF how you actually spell his name), that means Garrett then becomes their play at #2. NYJ would likely take advantage of a cheap deal to ensure they get the best EDGE player in the draft. We'd be underselling the #1 pick, but I'd be okay with it in the case that we receive the following players. Round 1, Pick 6 - Jamal Adams, S, LSU - As Williams noted in his presser, he utilizes a number of packages. Adams gives us a LB in a SS body that we can trot up into the box and give us a scary 44 look when need be, yet isn't a liability as a true SS either. He's nasty, he's a hard hitter and he's the best safety prospect in this draft. He'll transform this defense along with our next pick. Round 1, Pick 12 - Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama - Foster is the MIKE that completes the defensive puzzle. A defensive QB that can play sideline to sideline. He's actually the belle of the ball in my eyes, he's the best interior linebacker prospect and he actually looks like he could be available here. Round 2, Pick 33 - Patrick Mahomes, QB, TT - Not my favorite pick, but I see the appeal of his upside. A second round QB also gives Hue another year for the RG3 experiment. Round 2, Pick 39 - Tim Williams, EDGE, Alabama - If Williams slides to here, there is absolutely no reason not to take him. I don't care if he was caught rimming out a dead transvestite in a stolen back-alley abortion van. He has the potential to be a disruptive EDGE player, and we can afford the risk given that we have three solid EDGE rushers. If he plays to his potential, he's a Pro Bowl caliber player. If he flames out, Manziel-style, we've mitigated that risk by being deep at that position. Round 2, Pick 52 - Adoree Jackson, CB, USC - I had this pick here initially in the other thread, but I made a change to the Williams pick and must have cut it out completely at some point. Thanks for pointing it out jrb. Jackson is a similar pick to Williams in that, if he develops, he's a homerun for us. If he doesn't, the risk is mitigated to some extent because we would conceivably be deeper at the CB position assuming we take Johnson in free agency. Round 3, Pick 65 - Jake Butt, TE, Michigan - A bowl-game injury drops his stock significantly. He'd be a steal in the third. Rounds 4 & on - I don't care. BPA. Trade 'em. Do whatever. DE - Ogbah, Nassib, Williams, OrchardDT - Shelton, Bryant, MederSAM - CollinsMLB - Foster, DavisWLB - Kirksey, SchobertCB - Haden, Johnson, Taylor, JacksonFS - BerrySS - Adams This would be among the nastiest defenses I could imagine, and we wouldn't be taking the top defensive prospect. We'd have a developmental QB to work with for a year while we let RG3 continue his tryout. SCENARIO #2 (The much less likely scenario) Free Agency - Same as scenario #1 Draft - Round 1, Pick 1 - Trade #1 pick with New York Jets. See above for reasoning. Round 1, Pick 6 - Mitch Trubisky, QB, UNC - Assuming SF lands JG, that means Watson could be the best QB available for the Bears. That would slide Trubisky to #6, where we could strike. Round 1, Pick 12 - Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama Round 2, Pick 33 - Gerbil Peppers, SS, Michigan - There's a chance Peppers slides to the second round due to the fact that he's just a full-on tweener. Were that to happen, he'd be a perfect pick here. Round 2, Pick 39 - Tim Williams, EDGE, Alabama Round 2, Pick 52 - Adoree Jackson, CB, USC Round 3, Pick 65 - Jake Butt, TE, Michigan Rounds 4 & on - I don't care. BPA. Trade 'em. Do whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 hey man, always appreciate the insight but in both your draft outlines you're forgetting we get the Titans pick this year too which I believe is #52. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 What are you doing with our #52 pick? You didn't mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 hey man, always appreciate the insight but in both your draft outlines you're forgetting we get the Titans pick this year too which I believe is #52. Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Whoops. With that aside appreciate a viewpoint here though. I'm typically in the get more assets camp and I was fine with what the Browns did this past year. However, this year there is a no brainer pick for #1 who fits an immediate, day one need in Myles Garrett. I really hope the Browns don't overthink this thing and just draft the dude. We've had several opportunities to take the no brainer guy in previous years (Khalil Mack comes to mind) and we either went for the home run or traded back. I gotta say, trading back again this year just sounds awful to me. In fact, given the amount of picks we have I'm hoping we follow the plan of taking Garrett #1 and letting the chips fall from the QB needy teams (SF to NYJ). I think as it usually goes people will fall in love with Watson and Kizer and they will be the first two off the board, perhaps at #2 and #3. My guess as of today is that Trubisky would still be around say at the panthers pick at #8.Trade up with them for #12 and the eagles 2018 2nd? Sounds good to me. Still have those two 2nd round picks to get better at Safety for sure and really I'm fine with BPA after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Kalil is really really bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Kalil is really really bad So are most of our tackles not named Joe Thomas. But, at one point, Kalil was really really good. Its worth it to see if his struggles are team-based or league-based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 My money is still on Coleman at RT... the player I saw on tape is still in there... somewhere... Nice analysis... can't wrap my head around a trade down right now, but never say never. I do not think Foster falls to #12 overall, but since it's the only way I can see landing him... here's hoping. Scenario #1 is more palatable here, but only because I can't get comfy with Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 My money is still on Coleman at RT... the player I saw on tape is still in there... somewhere... That would be ideal. What did we invest in him last year? I see it was round 3, pick #76. That seems a right place for a RT. He SHOULD own the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 My money is still on Coleman at RT... the player I saw on tape is still in there... somewhere... Nice analysis... can't wrap my head around a trade down right now, but never say never. I do not think Foster falls to #12 overall, but since it's the only way I can see landing him... here's hoping. Scenario #1 is more palatable here, but only because I can't get comfy with Peppers. The only way I can rationalize it is by the line of thought that they want to spread out our positional spending as evenly as possible at this stage (something I heard on NPR or ESPN Radio a few months ago when they interviewed a statistician who has been working on finding dynastic commonalities). Then, by assuming that to be true, it's easier for me to stomach the idea of passing on Garrett at the top of the draft. As for Peppers, I like the idea of a spur back. Thomas Davis was a great one and he's transitioned well to the pros. Granted, he's a full time LB now. A tweener that can play in the box and in space is a great asset for a Williams defense. Adams is the perfect guy for that role, but should Peppers drop, there's value there in the second. Were I in charge...I would explore the possibilities of trading away one of our EDGE assets pre-draft in the hopes of securing another second round pick. Then I'd take Garrett at one and gauge the board after Jacksonville picks and make a play to trade up for Foster or Adams in the 5-8 range. It really all hinges on SF. If they end up with JG, we could conceivably end up with Garrett, Foster and a QB in the first round. We have the capital to secure three picks in the top 15 should we feel the need to move them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 True, but what QB? Seeing more mocks with Kizer going high... as in top 10 high... Speaking of QBs... have you seen much of Josh Dobbs? He was killing it today in Sr. Bowl practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 True, but what QB? Seeing more mocks with Kizer going high... as in top 10 high... Speaking of QBs... have you seen much of Josh Dobbs? He was killing it today in Sr. Bowl practice. I have flipped back and forth on him over the course of the last two years. I think he's a likeable guy with a lot of traits you look for, but he's just not a thrower who will wow you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The only way I can rationalize it is by the line of thought that they want to spread out our positional spending as evenly as possible at this stage (something I heard on NPR or ESPN Radio a few months ago when they interviewed a statistician who has been working on finding dynastic commonalities). This could be switching cause and effect. A team that consistently picks BPA will end up picking a random spread of positions. I doubt teams are making it priority one to go for positional spread just for the sake of the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 This could be switching cause and effect. A team that consistently picks BPA will end up picking a random spread of positions. I doubt teams are making it priority one to go for positional spread just for the sake of the spread. It could be, but it's highly unlikely that BPA just happened to be constantly spread out among different positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 It could be, but it's highly unlikely that BPA just happened to be constantly spread out among different positions. If you want to believe everyone and his Uncle, Garrett is far and away the #1 talent in this draft. To trade down, It would greatly depend on how much we would get offered, and how far down we would have to move. If everyone is thinking we're taking Myles, I doubt there would be much interest in a trade up. If a another team has the hots for a qb, it's game on. The draft is rich in edge rushers, so I'm not worried about that. You know by now I have a qb fixation on a certain guy. If the 49ers and Bears really believe Kizer- Watson- Garropolo are superior to Trubisky, I'd be as happy as a pig in mud, and trade up from #12 to make sure we get Mitch. But that would be at the cost of missing out on Foster who might not be there at #12 either. If we go defense in the first round- I won't object to Mahomes @ #33- assuming he's still there. MHO is Trubisky, Kizer, and probably Watson (yuck) won't make it out of the first round. Depending on how the draft falls, I could see the #12 and #33 being up for sale for future first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't see how the Browns can pass up Patrick Mahomes II. He was the best Qb in college football last year. He has an NFL body and the best arm in the 2017 class. He is currently 2nd on Mel Kipers qb prospect list and should be a top 10 pick following the NFL combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't see how the Browns can pass up Patrick Mahomes II. He was the best Qb in college football last year. He has an NFL body and the best arm in the 2017 class. He is currently 2nd on Mel Kipers qb prospect list and should be a top 10 pick following the NFL combine. He's certainly not worth a top 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't see how the Browns can pass up Patrick Mahomes II. He was the best Qb in college football last year. He has an NFL body and the best arm in the 2017 class. He is currently 2nd on Mel Kipers qb prospect list and should be a top 10 pick following the NFL combine. Yea, he could be a young...guy on your avatar. Wouldn't that be wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 True, but what QB? Seeing more mocks with Kizer going high... as in top 10 high... Speaking of QBs... have you seen much of Josh Dobbs? He was killing it today in Sr. Bowl practice. Just watched one of his videos on draftbreakdown.com and wasn't overly impressed. Everything was basically first read - clap,snap,throw, in rhythm. Decent athlete but most QBs are these days. Watched one of Mahomes as well, that kid has an effortless throwing motion, and throwing feathery ropes if there is such a thing. Never seems like there's too much heat on it but always flies to the receiver. Downside, he trusts that too much and is always looking for the big play. One thing''s for sure, if people are bothered Kessler/Griffin aren't willing or able to throw deep balls with accuracy, Mahomes would solve that. Then there's just the other 99 aspects of being a QB to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The draft is rich in edge rushers, so I'm not worried about that. Depending on how the draft falls, I could see the #12 and #33 being up for sale for future first round picks. Edge rushers perhaps, but not elite edge rushers. Future #1'a are devalued by one round per year removed from the current draft. Just watched one of his videos on draftbreakdown.com and wasn't overly impressed. Everything was basically first read - clap,snap,throw, in rhythm. Decent athlete but most QBs are these days. Nothing wrong with getting the ball to a first read in rhythm... if he's open. Don't know what game you watched, but I urge you to look at some 2015 tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 vs Louisiana Tech. I agree there's a lot to be said for getting the ball out quickly and accurately - but Kessler does that, so I'm looking for *more*. Nobody has hit me yet as a can't miss guy. Mahomes has a great arm but makes poor decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Sign Chandler Jones in free agency then pick Trubisky @ #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 ... and trade for Garoppolo and we can be the Cleveland Patriots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 ... and trade for Garoppolo and we can be the Cleveland Patriots... Or...can they now be considered the New England Browns. So many former Browns are associated with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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