Tim Couch Pulls Out

Hate to hear this. 

I’m not much of a poster anymore but I still try to lurk and keep tabs on what’s going on here. Although I never was afforded the opportunity to meet any of y’all in person, I still considered many of you friends and hearing this news absolutely guts me.

This board got me through a very rough time in my life and Tour was always incredibly nice to me despite having no reason to be. He would often entertain my nonsensical (and occasionally combative) posts and we ended up having some great discussions about this team and it’s myriad problems. 

Bruce, thank you for taking time out of your life to talk Browns with a young kid with a lot on his mind who didn’t really have anyone else to talk to. I’ll proudly hang the Browns flag you sent me until it can no longer be hung.

Take care, my friend -

Jared

 

Oh man, this sucks. 

Gip and I rarely saw eye-to-eye but he was genuinely a nice guy and a god-tier Browns fan.

This board, and this world, are a little darker without him. 

RIP to a Browns Board legend and a man who impacted all of our lives in ways he’ll never know.

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

... and the DE size difference was one of my main points. Wade adapts to the talent he has. He's a better DC for doing so.

The 5th DB is often filling the role of the 3rd LB. giving rise to the hybrid role in recent years. Deion Jones is a great example of the "undersized" LB's expanded role.

Whatever the player, it does not change his role in the base D significantly. It simply shifts the area where his makeup best sets up success, i.e., pass coverage vs run stopping.

Probably one of the best DCs to do it, I’d love to have him here.

I have no doubt you understand the nuances of defensive philosophies moreso than most regular posters, my gripe is more with the common  “oh god, 34 defense, we’re gonna have to get entirely new players” stance a lot of people take.

Were we to go that route, some changes would obviously occur but it’s not a full defensive reset...depending on the coordinator. 

On 12/30/2019 at 2:41 PM, Tour2ma said:

Then color me hung up....

Roster composition is impacted. Physical demands of the DL and OLB differ and so do the physical makeup of players.

DTs differ from NTs... DEs from DEs...

Long history under some damn good HCs. Our STs were one very disciplined unit... very few penalties even of the dreaded block n the back variety.

Makes me think the guy should get an interview.

I get what you’re saying but that’s just not the way the NFL is anymore.

There’s still a general split between two prevailing philosophies, but it’s more accurate to define that split as 2-gap/1-gap as opposed to 34/43. 

This is for a few reasons, but mainly just because teams don’t run 7-man fronts as often. Something like 26 teams ran 50+% of their plays with 5 defensive backs on the field last year - whether that’s through an extra CB, extra safety, $lb, what have you. So to even classify their base as a 34/43 would be erroneous, their “base” alignments would be either 335 or 425. 

The other reason it’s a bit of a misnomer is exactly what you said about personnel. Generally speaking, people hear 34 and think “large DL, big run stuffing NT, pass rush from the OLBs”. And that’s not necessarily wrong.

But look at Wade Phillips, however, who is known for running a one-gap 34. His defenses have had a number of different personnel types. He’s had defenses where his DE outweighed his NT and seasons where he’s had a 330 lb. NT. He’s had years where’s run three OLBs simultaneously. But it’s always been primarily a one gap defense where the defensive linemen generate pressure, as opposed to the traditional “hit, fit and react” responsibilities of a 34 defensive lineman.

Further, he tends to primarily walk up his WILL to the line and utilize him as an extra pass rusher at a higher percentage than many other 34 DC’s, in effect just making him a 4th DL. 

All of that and he’s still considered a 34 DC, despite his defense being much closer to a 43 in philosophy.

3 minutes ago, hoorta said:

My Redskins fan mentioned Washington had been talking to Rivera for weeks.  Also, Bruce Allen might be out as GM.  

So, old Shur-loss is another casualty on Black Monday. Start a poll who's worse as a HC, Freddie or Pat?   

I've mentioned elsewhere McCarthy already has his potential OC and DC in place.... It would be a total house cleaning. Not that I was overly impressed with Wilkes. No opinion on Monken, as Freddie effectively handcuffed and muzzled him. That said, I hope we can keep Stump Mitchell around as running back coach. Chubb loves and respects him. 

Allen is out entirely. Rivera is expected to sign soon and the rumor is he would bring Wilks in as DC, which is great news for us. 

I think it's a whole house cleaning regardless of who we hire. Defensively, everyone will (and definitely should) be let go. Offensively, the only way I see Monken staying is if we hire a coach who's going to implement an Air Raid-inspired offense, but that doesn't seem likely. Adam Henry might be safe just because I expect Odell and Jarvis to go to bat for him.

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

People still getting hung up on the 34 43 44 cliche'.  

For real. 

43/34 doesn't matter. The biggest difference in defensive philosophies is gap responsibility, not front alignment. 43/34 doesn't matter, it's just something fans get hung up on.

• Baker Mayfield 
• Nick Chubb
• Jarvis Landry
• Odell Beckham Jr. 
• Denzel Ward
• Greedy Williams
• Damarious Randall 

But yes, let's get mad and call for John Dorsey's head because Genard Avery, a dude named Carl and Austin whatever the fuck his name is aren't here.

5 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

Next HC has to be someone who won’t let loud mouths Landry and OBJ run the team. 

I wonder why you chose those two, interesting

This is a rumor I have a hard time believing, given the source (Mike Silver) and the fact that Jarvis openly said it was false. Plus, Arizona is a worse team than us. 

It makes no sense.

19 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 

Plus +100 👍..Good to see ya back around...Bountygate never bothered me...Last years, at Baltimore defensive game plan with his son did.. Bonus thought? What's your take on Kevin Stefanski? I would not mind keeping former Viking ST coach Mike Priefer on staff..Behind Stefanski is Gary Kubiak coaching with his son now on Zimmer's staff. Zim has got to be setting up for Stefanski out the door soon? 

I like Stefanski and I thought he was interesting. Of the "new" guys we interviewed, I wanted him more than Flores, Campbell or Eberflus. But to be honest, I wasn't really excited for most of the guys we interviewed.

Of all possibilities, my personal preferences (in order) were: 

• 1) Hire Arians, keep Freddie at OC. (didn't interview Arians)
  • Arians wanted to be here, has experience with young QBs and a good body of work, established a good culture and relationships
• 2) Keep Williams, keep Freddie at OC
  • Williams deserved the opportunity, most of the players respected him and did their jobs, preached accountability and a focus on the little things
• 3) Hire Eric Bienemy as HC, keep Freddie at OC. (didn't interview Bienemy)
  • Detail-oriented offensive mind, former player, from a winning culture, very adaptive playcaller, specialty with runningbacks
• 4) Hire Matt Campbell, keep Freddie at OC. (didn't interview Campbell) 
  • Campbell is a good culture builder and seems to be adept at turning losing programs into winners, though he has zero NFL experience
• 5) Hire Stefanski as HC, keep Freddie at OC. 
  • From a basketball family, dad was an NBA GM so he gets the business aspect of it, players like him and he preaches adapting the philosophy to the players
• 6) Hire Brian Flores, keep Freddie as OC. 
  • Experience in a winning culture, no-nonsense guy, outside the box hire

All of my preferences involved keeping Freddie at OC. He couldn't take an interview for a lateral move and it was highly unlikely anyone offered him the HC job last offseason, so it's either he stays with us for another year and adds to his resume or he quits. Either one of those options was preferable to me compared to making him HC.

This year, if we do in fact decide to go in a different direction, I would hope Riley, Bienemy and Rivera are at the top of our list. All three of those guys are known for being detail-oriented and you'd be hard pressed to find a player who speaks ill of any of them. Those are the qualities I think are most important in a head coach - the ability to garner/maintain respect and a focus on the little things. 

They are definitely preparing for Stefanski's departure but I'm not sure if it's this offseason or the next one. At most there will be like 7 HC vacancies in 2020 (WAS, CAR, NYJ, NYG, DAL, CLE, ATL, LAC), you have to think Rivera, McCarthy, Bienemy, and Roman are all going to definitely get hired as HC's next year. 

My guess? If CAR doesn't hire Greg Roman as HC, they'll bring in Stefanski. He's a good fit for David Tepper, who's a decently big analytics guy. 

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So.... you want Belichick...

IMO there's more than one way to skin a cat. Could be a more stoic disciplinarian, could be a soft-spoken guy, could be an asshole, could be a player's coach - doesn't necessarily matter. My personal belief is that, at this level, discipline comes from respect and respect is earned through showing you know your shit. 

I don't think Freddie gives off that vibe in the least and I don't believe the players respect him.

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I was solidly in Williams' corner. When Dorsey picked Freddie, I said at the time it was because Freddie would be more pliable... would bend more readily to Dorsey's way of thinking. So I agree there would have been more drama/tension in the Berea offices... but better there than in the locker room/ on the sideline, which is where it is now.

 

I haven't looked for data, but my impression is that the Freddie backers then seem to be the most vocal now for firing him...

... while the Williams' guys (like me) seem to be the ones preaching patience.

Just an impression.... I could be wrong...

I was a Williams guy myself, Tour. I thought he did a nice job in the interim and I thoroughly enjoyed his take on accountability. A lot of people weren't fans because of Bountygate, which is understandable, but I wanted to see how what he could do with this young team of personalities. I thought he brought a good mesh of in your face "fuck you" antics and preaching perfection in even the smallest actions.

As a matter of fact, the guy I wanted the least was Kitchens. 

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

 

I haven't looked for data, but my impression is that the Freddie backers then seem to be the most vocal now for firing him...

... while the Williams' guys (like me) seem to be the ones preaching patience.

Just an impression.... I could be wrong...

Honestly, I've found few people preaching patience at this point.  Kitchens looks in over his head, plain and simple. And he's seemingly lost a portion of the locker room, which is an even bigger concern. Once that fissure starts to form, there's not enough spackle in the world to patch it up. 

I remember many years of posting "we're just building up to go on a run, we're just waiting for that window" on this very board. 

Well, this is finally it. This is that window. We've got two years before we need to start really locking up the core of this team to big contracts. We can't waste it hoping that Freddie figures it out. 

Good talent can't overcome bad coaching. 

8 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Look who showed up!  Where you been?

Though, I think that the college coach may not be the way to go. 

Traveling and working, mostly. Decided to take a break from posting for a while and see how it affected my mental health. Glad to see many of the same guys are still posting, sad as shit to hear about Stan. 

With the offensive talent we have, I just want a guy who can utilize it efficiently. I honestly don't care where he comes from. I was never happy with the Freddie hire, I think he lacks conviction and that's what is being reflected on the field. 

5 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Wow, welcome back!

Thanks! It's been a while but clearly nothing has changed with these Browns. Same shit, different coach. 

Fire him. Fire Wilks. Give Lincoln Riley every dollar in Haslam's piggy bank. Let a computer pick defensive plays.