2010 Offensive Needs Assessment

[Flugel]

Here's the Offense position by position:

 

QUARTERBACK:

2009 grade was an F. I'm not prejudiced here - I can't stand any of them at the moment. I hope the brain trust keeps their opinion of the lesser of all evils and explores every conceivable option of improving the depth, experience and performance levels of this position in 2010. I agree with those thinking we need to use 2 of the 11 picks on QBs and I'd like us to explore 1 veteran out there. I'm even OPEN to finding out who QB'd Marc Trestman's offense to the Championship up in the CFL. Don't forget before there were Flutie Flakes in Buffalo - there were Championships in Canada. Others that went the route of CFL were Warren Moon, Joe Theismann and Jeff Garcia.

See the mock drafts and various debates we got going for names of prospects and potential veterans worth exploring.

 

OLINE:

2009 Midterm grade was a D and final grade was a B-. The D seemed unfair while Joe Thomas was shutting out every single stud he faced. However, the right side wasn't a mirror image of the Left side while Jamal's DEAD legs and our incompetant QBing made this group look worse than it was. I think Harrison showed us all we lacked was a RB that could make it from stance to daylight in a reasonable amt of time. The results a relief when we played the right RB. I thought Steinbach took some unnecessary criticism but alot of that was from Brady Quinn fans not wanting him accountable for anything. When we started running the balll - the blame shifted to Daboll exclusively from Quinn fans. Alex Mack showed steady progress and I credit ALOT of that to Steinbach on 1 side of him and Fraley on the other. Glaring need for 2010 seems to be right tackle and my friend Calfox doesn't want us to forget this - so we won't. We also need depth because injuries are a big part of our luck and history; and Fraley isn't getting any younger.

We can add via the draft but if we want a starter at RT - some us gotta be comfortable knowing that will require a 2nd round pick most likely. It seems like the teams relying on FA tackles got guys like Orlando Pace and St Clair so we might need to be congizant of this.

 

TIGHT END:

2009 Midterm grade was an F and final grade was a C-. I LIKED what I saw from Aaron Moore and Michael Gaines and learned Jax hated parting with Eric Estrada (Estandia). I don't want to see another year of Robert Royal starting for us and it looks like Heiden is getting at that same age where wear and tear kept him in blue jeans the way it once did with Joe Jurevicius here. This draft looks like it has some goods tight ends in early rounds. I HATE the thought of us needing to go early at this position; but then there's the reality of our struggling QBs. Who's a struggling passer's best friend? The TE. I remembered what a wonderful alternative Jay Novacek was to concussions for Troy Aikman when he was breaking out of the NFL growing pains. This position does alot of blue collar work in moving the chains if you employ the right guy(s). The most impressive kid I saw playing the position as a receiver was Aaron Hernandez of Florida. And if you didn't buy my arguement about struggling passers - he certainly made most of Tebow's passing highlights. We've got 11 picks so nothing will surprise me in this draft. This is a bigger need than people think so I wouldn't lose any sleep if we shocked people and added Hernandez. Adding a gem at TE makes the ergonomics a little friendlier on our WRs. If that's not enough, you know teams are gonna keep trying to cheat a Safety up in the box and Hernandez (or an equivalent) could be the person that makes them pay dearly for doing so.

 

WIDE RECEIVER:

2009 Grade was Incomplete. How's that for irony? Seriously, though - it's not as gloom and doom as it appears. We had 2 rookies (Robiskie & MoMass) and 1 second year guy (Stuckey) after the disinterested Braylon Edwards moved on and Stallworth jammed us. I think the trend in this league is that WR takes time for emergence UNLESS there is a Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, or Randall Cunningham (putting in a career best season) chucking passes at the young receivers. Otherwise, I see this position requiring patience to allow the emergence of WRs like Calvin Johnson, Sidney Rice and Santonio Holmes. If we do address this position thinking immediate impact - I think we need to do it in free agency. I love Riff's idea of bringing Lee Evans home to upgrade this position while the youngsters keep working hard to improve. I guess it wouldn't hurt to add someone late or in the same land of undrafted rookies we found Josh Cribbs in. I guess I need to say he plays WR once in a while for us too.

 

RUNNINGBACK:

2009 Midterm grade was an F- and final grade was an A. It's amazing what changing dead legs for motivated legs meant to the overall perception of our oline. I LOVED seeing what Harrison could do and I'm looking forward to the return of James Davis. I was really impressed with Jennings so this position seems pretty good. That said, alot of the RBs known to run in the 4.3s or better have been gems like Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson, Joseph Addai and Chris Johnson. Do we forego need in lieu of best overall talent on the board? I share Riff's opinion on the offensive side of the ball if we go offense first - my favorite 1st round kid is CJ Spiller. You want points on the board? Change of pace at RB? Special Teams help if Cribbs gets hurt? Another otpion in the slot to remove extra DBs in the box? Do you want to bury a zone blitz? When Marshall Faulk played for the Rams - he built a cemetary for defenses that lived by the blitz. 4.2 speed and good hands buries it folks. We're a team that struggles to put points on the board because we learned the hard way you don't compete with ZONE BLITZES when you choose to play into their hands with BIG and SLOW running backs. They LOVED Jamal lewis when he was here on broken wheels. If Spiller is truely the track star I've read about - I don't see how his stock doesn't rise at Indy or private workouts.

 

FULLBACK:

2009 Grade was a B. I think we need to keep Vickers and the last 4 games pretty much says why. I didn't like how bad his hands became receiving this year though. That's correctable IMO. If we don't re-sign Vickers - people can land All Pros in the land of the undrafted for this position. That's a good thing.

[ballpeen]

For me,

 

 

QB....we pretty much agree. Unless one of those guys finds some magic dust this off season, a rework at the position is necessary.

 

If we can't find a decent vet, we need to find a semi-crappy one and draft whoever it is we wish to bet on high in the draft.

 

OL...I wouldn't go in the B's....I say C...we have a LT, LG, and center.....nothing on the right side, though Womack showed a little after he took over at RT.

 

If we can trade down in round 1, we need a RT say mid round 1st. If not, we have to give serious consideration with our 2nd round pick at the top of the second.

 

The NFL changed about 25 years ago and O-line is considered a value position and if you want a good one, you better take guys in the first 3 rounds. This idea you can get by with 6th rounders across the line just doesn't work.

 

WR....I give it a C+ right now.

 

It's too early to write of Robo. MoMass looks like a guy who will be at least NFL average....add in the others and we aren't bad, though I agree we lack a gamebreaker.

 

I think with improved QB play, the wide-out will get even better, so I don't think we are that far away from having a plus unit.

 

TE....I actually think we are looking pretty good there. I like Moore a lot...a good receiver...blocking, well, I don't place much value on blocking TE's. Just play a extra guard out there if you want blocking.

 

FB....Vickers is fine, though I won't really grade the position because if the guy doesn't do much other than block, which vickers doesn't...how many passes did he catch....just play a reserve lineman...or better yet, another receiver, or another runner who can actually be considered a threat to run.

 

But that is just my opinion on the position and don't want that to be the focus.....so, ok....for Fullback....Vickers rates a B+

[Flugel]

For me,

 

 

QB....we pretty much agree. Unless one of those guys finds some magic dust this off season, a rework at the position is necessary.

 

If we can't find a decent vet, we need to find a semi-crappy one and draft whoever it is we wish to bet on high in the draft.

 

OL...I wouldn't go in the B's....I say C...we have a LT, LG, and center.....nothing on the right side, though Womack showed a little after he took over at RT.

 

If we can trade down in round 1, we need a RT say mid round 1st. If not, we have to give serious consideration with our 2nd round pick at the top of the second.

 

The NFL changed about 25 years ago and O-line is considered a value position and if you want a good one, you better take guys in the first 3 rounds. This idea you can get by with 6th rounders across the line just doesn't work.

 

WR....I give it a C+ right now.

 

It's too early to write of Robo. MoMass looks like a guy who will be at least NFL average....add in the others and we aren't bad, though I agree we lack a gamebreaker.

 

I think with improved QB play, the wide-out will get even better, so I don't think we are that far away from having a plus unit.

 

TE....I actually think we are looking pretty good there. I like Moore a lot...a good receiver...blocking, well, I don't place much value on blocking TE's. Just play a extra guard out there if you want blocking.

 

FB....Vickers is fine, though I won't really grade the position because if the guy doesn't do much other than block, which vickers doesn't...how many passes did he catch....just play a reserve lineman...or better yet, another receiver, or another runner who can actually be considered a threat to run.

 

But that is just my opinion on the position and don't want that to be the focus.....so, ok....for Fullback....Vickers rates a B+

 

 

Thanks for the feedback Ballpeen! I think you bring up some good points and clarified your positions well.

 

It looks like we see WR the same way believe it or not. It's hard to be fair to them based on the QB and their experience levels so i got wordy stating that.

 

I can't disagree with what you say about the right side of the line - although I don't think it was always bad. 1 decent combo was Fraley and Womack in the sense that we could run right or left on those days. But I understand your position. I'm hoping between Fraley, Womack and Hadnot - that RG isn't the same urgency as RT.

 

I think the only place our opinions really differed was on the left side to the Center. Here's where I'm coming from on that: If we have an All Pro at LT - it's hard for me to agree that's a C. Not only that, if our last 4 opponents knew all we could do was RUN the ball and mostly to the left - they did a pretty freakin good job if we look at the rushing stats vrs 10 men in the box. That's why I gave a midterm grade and a final grade.

 

Great point about about what you said about the oline being a value position!

- Tom F.

[ballpeen]

I guess for me I am just tired of having to complain about O-line.

 

A few years ago we drafted Joe....overall it wasn't viewed in most circles as a great pick(fan circles).....but today few would say it was a dumb pick.

 

To me, the O line is EVERYTHING on O. Great backs, and QBs aren't going to do very well with a crap line. Turn it around and put a crap back or QB behind a great line and he is going to look semi good. Make those guys of average quality behind some great linemen and you are going to look pretty darn good.

 

Add in the fact those guys usually have pretty long careers barring injuries which don't happen to them as often as other positions, and you have a safe, solid pick.

 

Sure, a few bust, but for the most part o-line is pretty easy to scout. Guys you think are going to be great may not end up great, but they usually don't totally suck. They at least end up good.

 

If we can finally fix the line, and then invest on a fairly regular basis to build depth and cover for slipping in play as guys age, we've fixed 75% of the offense.

 

Moving the ball doesn't start with the QB, backs, and receivers...it starts with the line.

 

Get that right and the other stuff will fall in to place.

 

If I was a GM, I would draft a O-lineman in the 1st,2nd,or 3rd round EVERY year, and at least 1 of three or four would be a 1st rounder . Offensive line is 5 positions...almost half your offensive unit. Why would you want to monkey around and fill it with cast-offs and 6th rounders??

 

It's like putting a $2000 sound system in your car while 3 of your tires are bald and the 4th is the mini spare.

 

It doesn't make sense.

[Flugel]

I guess for me I am just tired of having to complain about O-line.

 

A few years ago we drafted Joe....overall it wasn't viewed in most circles as a great pick(fan circles).....but today few would say it was a dumb pick.

 

To me, the O line is EVERYTHING on O. Great backs, and QBs aren't going to do very well with a crap line. Turn it around and put a crap back or QB behind a great line and he is going to look semi good.

 

 

GREAT stuff!

- Tom F.

[lambdo]

I'm even OPEN to finding out who QB'd Marc Trestman's offense to the Championship up in the CFL. Don't forget before there were Flutie Flakes in Buffalo - there were Championships in Canada. Others that went the route of CFL were Warren Moon, Joe Theismann and Jeff Garcia.

 

Flug's it was Anthony Calvillo..Has been clearly the best CFL QB we've had up here since Flutie (Def. a better resume then Jeff Garcia) Currently 4th all time in professional passing yards.

 

He's 37 though, and although is deadly accurate ( approx 4700 passing yards and 72% completion rate in 2009) never got the chance for one reason or another ( probably due to arm strength?). Would have been nice to see him get a look 5 years ago.

 

But who knows..Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning super bowls, so it's not unfathomable that the defending back to back CFL's most outstanding player could have some success playing 4 down ball.

 

 

[steel88]

QUARTERBACK: Agree with you here. The play from both was miserable, and what's the deal with quinn and getting injured at the end of the season?

 

OLINE: They seemed to gel towards the end of the season, but a new RT will do wonders.

 

TIGHT END: Needs an upgrade although evan moore may be the thing were looking for

 

WIDE RECEIVER: I am most optimistic about this I believe with an upgrade at QB this could be a strength

 

RUNNINGBACK: This really all depends on if Harrison stays or not, and if he does we do still need a bruising type back

 

FULLBACK: This is one of the strengths of the team, watching Vickers blow people up for harrison was a joy this season.

[Earl34]

QB: Agree. See my post on the "not trading for a QB" thread for more detail

 

OL: Mostly agree. I think that St. Clair needs to be gone and RT may be our biggest area of need on offense (in my mind). It will be tricky because #7 is too high for a RT and #7 in the second may not be high enough for the best ones. Mack will be great and if we could give ourselves a right side that's serviceable....sky's the limit.

 

WR: I don't know why Robiskie couldn't crack the lineup but I'm willing to give an incomplete. I like MoMass and Stuckey. Speed at this position could be very helpful.

 

TE: I actually think that the guys we have could be serviceable. I do like Aaron Hernandez in round 2 or 3 but at worst....I can stand pat.

 

RB: I think that James Davis is going to turn heads next year and I hope that Jerome Harrison can build on 2009. I like Chris Jennings for what he's accomplished but a CJ Spiller could give us a "loaded" position at tailback.

 

FB: I never thought much of Vickers but he won me over with some toughness and great blocking.

[Flugel]

Flug's it was Anthony Calvillo..Has been clearly the best CFL QB we've had up here since Flutie (Def. a better resume then Jeff Garcia) Currently 4th all time in professional passing yards.

 

He's 37 though, and although is deadly accurate ( approx 4700 passing yards and 72% completion rate in 2009) never got the chance for one reason or another ( probably due to arm strength?). Would have been nice to see him get a look 5 years ago.

 

But who knows..Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning super bowls, so it's not unfathomable that the defending back to back CFL's most outstanding player could have some success playing 4 down ball.

 

Thanks Lambdo! If we're looking for a veteran stop-gap (of a year or 2) and we'll prolly draft 1 or 2 rookie QBs - we could do worse than Calvillo. I wish he was a little younger though.

 

Zac Robinson looks like the best passer in the first half of the Senior Bowl today.

- Tom F.

[Frenchie]

Flug's it was Anthony Calvillo..Has been clearly the best CFL QB we've had up here since Flutie (Def. a better resume then Jeff Garcia) Currently 4th all time in professional passing yards.

 

He's 37 though, and although is deadly accurate ( approx 4700 passing yards and 72% completion rate in 2009) never got the chance for one reason or another ( probably due to arm strength?). Would have been nice to see him get a look 5 years ago.

 

But who knows..Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning super bowls, so it's not unfathomable that the defending back to back CFL's most outstanding player could have some success playing 4 down ball.

 

I liked everything you said until you opened the possibility in your last paragraph. Look, I'm a big Montreal Als fan and love Calvillo ... but your talking about someone who is contemplating retirement or one more year - and he's not in Favre kind of shape. I think he's missed any NFL opportunity and agree with you that it was probably due to arm strength.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The NFL changed about 25 years ago and O-line is considered a value position and if you want a good one, you better take guys in the first 3 rounds. This idea you can get by with 6th rounders across the line just doesn't work.

 

I don't know. Rich4eagle brought up a good point about the two offensive lines in the Super Bowl right now. They both are getting by decently well with 6th rounders and unsigned FA's.

 

BUT, the only reason this is working is because both teams built their line early on, and had consistent line play in the years building up. So, I believe you can get by with 6th rounders IF AND ONLY IF you have an all-star cast for the other offensive positions. An all-star cast that jells well, I might add. An offense filled with prima-donna players will get you nowhere, obviously. Indy and New Orleans did things the smart way and drafted key linemen to establish an offense, and that's gotten them where they are today.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, we do need to shore up the right side of our line, and we need to do so with an early draft pick. The offensive line is the key component to building an unstoppable offense, and we're 60% of the way there.

[calfoxwc]

Great post, flugs. And I know that Ballpeen and others, like me, know the value of the oline.

 

If the Saints overrun Peyton in the superbowl. well, Peyton will wish he had an oline

 

that had a star left takle and center ...

 

Who was it that said Thomas shut a guy down, so that guy simply went over to the right side?

 

I keep saying the oline is the engine of the sports car.

 

Truth is, you need a whole offense of guys who work together and make things happen.

 

Archie Manning simply got the (*^ beaten out of him.

 

Does anybody remember the qb of the ... Colts? many years ago?

 

He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, the title was "Thoroughbred?"

 

He was an excellent qb.. but all he got was beaten up, since the Colts were a very bad team back then..

 

 

[ballpeen]

Bert Jones

[calfoxwc]

Thank you !

 

I think between cabin fever and reading too many gardening books and seed catalogs,

 

I need a vacation.

 

Couldn't think of his name fer nothin.

[rich4eagle]

Here's the Offense position by position:

 

QUARTERBACK:

2009 grade was an F. I'm not prejudiced here - I can't stand any of them at the moment. I hope the brain trust keeps their opinion of the lesser of all evils and explores every conceivable option of improving the depth, experience and performance levels of this position in 2010. I agree with those thinking we need to use 2 of the 11 picks on QBs and I'd like us to explore 1 veteran out there. I'm even OPEN to finding out who QB'd Marc Trestman's offense to the Championship up in the CFL. Don't forget before there were Flutie Flakes in Buffalo - there were Championships in Canada. Others that went the route of CFL were Warren Moon, Joe Theismann and Jeff Garcia.

See the mock drafts and various debates we got going for names of prospects and potential veterans worth exploring.

 

OLINE:

2009 Midterm grade was a D and final grade was a B-. The D seemed unfair while Joe Thomas was shutting out every single stud he faced. However, the right side wasn't a mirror image of the Left side while Jamal's DEAD legs and our incompetant QBing made this group look worse than it was. I think Harrison showed us all we lacked was a RB that could make it from stance to daylight in a reasonable amt of time. The results a relief when we played the right RB. I thought Steinbach took some unnecessary criticism but alot of that was from Brady Quinn fans not wanting him accountable for anything. When we started running the balll - the blame shifted to Daboll exclusively from Quinn fans. Alex Mack showed steady progress and I credit ALOT of that to Steinbach on 1 side of him and Fraley on the other. Glaring need for 2010 seems to be right tackle and my friend Calfox doesn't want us to forget this - so we won't. We also need depth because injuries are a big part of our luck and history; and Fraley isn't getting any younger.

We can add via the draft but if we want a starter at RT - some us gotta be comfortable knowing that will require a 2nd round pick most likely. It seems like the teams relying on FA tackles got guys like Orlando Pace and St Clair so we might need to be congizant of this.

 

TIGHT END:

2009 Midterm grade was an F and final grade was a C-. I LIKED what I saw from Aaron Moore and Michael Gaines and learned Jax hated parting with Eric Estrada (Estandia). I don't want to see another year of Robert Royal starting for us and it looks like Heiden is getting at that same age where wear and tear kept him in blue jeans the way it once did with Joe Jurevicius here. This draft looks like it has some goods tight ends in early rounds. I HATE the thought of us needing to go early at this position; but then there's the reality of our struggling QBs. Who's a struggling passer's best friend? The TE. I remembered what a wonderful alternative Jay Novacek was to concussions for Troy Aikman when he was breaking out of the NFL growing pains. This position does alot of blue collar work in moving the chains if you employ the right guy(s). The most impressive kid I saw playing the position as a receiver was Aaron Hernandez of Florida. And if you didn't buy my arguement about struggling passers - he certainly made most of Tebow's passing highlights. We've got 11 picks so nothing will surprise me in this draft. This is a bigger need than people think so I wouldn't lose any sleep if we shocked people and added Hernandez. Adding a gem at TE makes the ergonomics a little friendlier on our WRs. If that's not enough, you know teams are gonna keep trying to cheat a Safety up in the box and Hernandez (or an equivalent) could be the person that makes them pay dearly for doing so.

 

WIDE RECEIVER:

2009 Grade was Incomplete. How's that for irony? Seriously, though - it's not as gloom and doom as it appears. We had 2 rookies (Robiskie & MoMass) and 1 second year guy (Stuckey) after the disinterested Braylon Edwards moved on and Stallworth jammed us. I think the trend in this league is that WR takes time for emergence UNLESS there is a Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, or Randall Cunningham (putting in a career best season) chucking passes at the young receivers. Otherwise, I see this position requiring patience to allow the emergence of WRs like Calvin Johnson, Sidney Rice and Santonio Holmes. If we do address this position thinking immediate impact - I think we need to do it in free agency. I love Riff's idea of bringing Lee Evans home to upgrade this position while the youngsters keep working hard to improve. I guess it wouldn't hurt to add someone late or in the same land of undrafted rookies we found Josh Cribbs in. I guess I need to say he plays WR once in a while for us too.

 

RUNNINGBACK:

2009 Midterm grade was an F- and final grade was an A. It's amazing what changing dead legs for motivated legs meant to the overall perception of our oline. I LOVED seeing what Harrison could do and I'm looking forward to the return of James Davis. I was really impressed with Jennings so this position seems pretty good. That said, alot of the RBs known to run in the 4.3s or better have been gems like Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson, Joseph Addai and Chris Johnson. Do we forego need in lieu of best overall talent on the board? I share Riff's opinion on the offensive side of the ball if we go offense first - my favorite 1st round kid is CJ Spiller. You want points on the board? Change of pace at RB? Special Teams help if Cribbs gets hurt? Another otpion in the slot to remove extra DBs in the box? Do you want to bury a zone blitz? When Marshall Faulk played for the Rams - he built a cemetary for defenses that lived by the blitz. 4.2 speed and good hands buries it folks. We're a team that struggles to put points on the board because we learned the hard way you don't compete with ZONE BLITZES when you choose to play into their hands with BIG and SLOW running backs. They LOVED Jamal lewis when he was here on broken wheels. If Spiller is truely the track star I've read about - I don't see how his stock doesn't rise at Indy or private workouts.

 

FULLBACK:

2009 Grade was a B. I think we need to keep Vickers and the last 4 games pretty much says why. I didn't like how bad his hands became receiving this year though. That's correctable IMO. If we don't re-sign Vickers - people can land All Pros in the land of the undrafted for this position. That's a good thing.

 

 

Tommy lets make this simple we wasted everything on OLINES for ten years................WE HAVE NO SKILL PLAYERS..............time to load up on touchdown makers..........IS THAT SO HARD

[Browns57]

I guess for me I am just tired of having to complain about O-line.

 

A few years ago we drafted Joe....overall it wasn't viewed in most circles as a great pick(fan circles).....but today few would say it was a dumb pick.

 

To me, the O line is EVERYTHING on O. Great backs, and QBs aren't going to do very well with a crap line. Turn it around and put a crap back or QB behind a great line and he is going to look semi good. Make those guys of average quality behind some great linemen and you are going to look pretty darn good.

 

Great point! Exactly like saying DA and Anderson totally suck when neither one has a legit number one, or even number two wide out to throw the ball to. Great post!

[Flugel]

Tommy lets make this simple we wasted everything on OLINES for ten years................WE HAVE NO SKILL PLAYERS..............time to load up on touchdown makers..........IS THAT SO HARD

 

Rich,

To put you at ease - I think we've upgraded the oline to the point where we won't need to go oline in round 1. I'm thinking we'll probably draft a Right Tackle in round 3 or somewhere in the vicinity. Part of the problem we had with Savage was his inability to draft any decent olinemen after round 1 so it wasn't anything like the 80s when a Paul Farren was waiting on our door step in round 7. We didn't HAVE this eye for oline talent with Savage unless it was a pick of the litter at #3 overall. Hopefully that will change and we'll be able to get decent linemen later.

 

I actually agree we could use playmakers on both sides of the ball. One of these days I'd like to see us with a QB that makes plays instead of football follies.

- Tom F.

[cdl15]

Tommy lets make this simple we wasted everything on OLINES for ten years................WE HAVE NO SKILL PLAYERS..............time to load up on touchdown makers..........IS THAT SO HARD

where exactly did we waste picks on offensive linemen(the most important part of the offense) you are dumb and all about the flash of the nfl.

I bet you watch a running back break a run untouched for 70 yrds and think man hes a beast, not even noticing the hole big enough to drive your station wagon with all of your td machines thru. You do know what the term hole means right. its the exact oposite of the defensive walls we try to run thu cause we have had one of the worst offensive lines since we've come back in the league.

 

 

4 centers-Alex Mack, (Jeff Faine 1 x pro bowl), (Ryan Pointabrand 2 x pro bowls)

4 guards-

4 tackles-(Joe Thomas 3 x pro bowls)

 

These are the only offensive linemen we've drafted since coming back 12 draft picks thats it. thats barely enough to even fill the roster with lineman.

 

and of those 12 only 3 of those were drafted higher than the 4th round and of those 3 there is 4 pro bowl apperences and counting the longsnapper who has another 2 bringing the total to 6 pro bowl apperences DRAFTED by the cleveland browns.

 

if anything we don't draft linemen enough cause we acually have a desent history of drafting linemen. prob the best position we draft.

so yea lets go get a rookie qb and critacize him when he throws 30 picks cause he has a half a second to throw.

hell draft a rb that can run over the whole ravens d lines and linebacks and prob a few of his own linemen cause we just got a bunch of 6th 7th and undrafted free agents we hope to grow into the colts or saints o line.

maybe another receiver who has what 2 sec to get open the draft is just littered with those guys.

 

First Draft pick RT RT RT move down to secure the guy you want, trust me we would have the best oline in the north maybe the afc in a year or two. and that would be a monster line for a decade.

 

Win the trenches win the game.

[Flugel]

Win the trenches win the game.

 

We won our last 4 games in a row without an NFL QB on the roster. And we weren't just barely rushing for 100 yards against 11 men playing run ONLY. Without looking, we probably had the best 4 game rushing average in both leagues in that final month of football with the exception of Tennessee.

 

I do think we need to add an NFL QB or they'll figure out a way to stop a team that can only run the ball. Adding a veteran receiver to the mix could help as well.

 

When thinking offense - probably the most sudden impact would be Spiller. You need more than 1 legit RB so don't worry if you're thinking we already got Harrison. Spiller has HANDS so we could use him in ways we can't use Harrison. The best example I can think of is the way New Orleans likes to handoff to Pierre Thomas and throw to Reggie Bush. They're a hard team to blitz with Bush's speed. THAT is why I'd like Spiller.

 

I can't promise Holmgren & Co sees anything but one of the top QB prospects in our 7th slot if we're going offense first.

- Tom F.

[mohican]

Here's the Offense position by position:

 

QUARTERBACK:

2009 grade was an F.

 

Tom, F is a good grade. I'm ok with whatever Holmgren, a QB Guru decides. I'd like to see quinn get a 1 year trial, with all of a starters reps, and some proper coaching. He regressed badly from what we saw in his 3 game 2008 debut. The only reason I even consider giving Quinn a year at the helm is that I hate to see a 1st round pick thrown away after what, 12 starts? Not a Quinn fan, didn't see the point in drafting him and trading up like that, but want to see the Browns make the most of that decision.

 

OLINE:

2009 Midterm grade was a D and final grade was a B-.

 

Pretty good evaluation. My only thought is that the lines play and the running game picked up AFTER St.Whiff was out. But I would have wanted to see Jerome Harrison all season instead of the coke dealer. I think the running game surge was a combination of things, not just Harrison. I still want a "complimentary" big back. Whether its a free agent or later draft pick I don't care much. I think a Right Tackle and a Right Guard would be good additions.

 

TIGHT END:

2009 Midterm grade was an F and final grade was a C-.

 

I LIKED what I saw from Aaron Moore and Michael Gaines BUT I would like to have a tight end who can block and catch so that the defense isn't automatically tipped off to what is going on

 

WIDE RECEIVER:

2009 Grade was Incomplete.

 

I would give this an F. Hard to ding the quarterbacks when the WR group sucked so bad so consistently. For those who miss Braylon Edwards, MoMass seemed to pick up where he left off on the deal of over running routes and not coming back to break up an interception. A Forest Gump prediliction to run each route right into the locker room. If we bring Donte back, can he be a viable #1? If not, you have to get one.

 

In reference to Robiski with Mangini, and Harrison with Crennel, what is it with coaches from the "Bellicheck Tree" putting players in the doghouse and out of developement indefinately?

 

 

 

 

RUNNINGBACK:

2009 Midterm grade was an F- and final grade was an A.

 

Three's a crowd. One of the current backs not named Harrison should be expendable. I would still go for a complimentary big back like LenDale White, or Legarret Blount. Someone with a chip on his shoulder. Maybe I'm having flashbacks watching Kevin Mack run into Carnell Lake, and watching blood gush from Lake's helmet. Ah, good times.

 

 

FULLBACK:

2009 Grade was a B. I think we need to keep Vickers and the last 4 games pretty much says why. I didn't like how bad his hands became receiving this year though. That's correctable IMO. If we don't re-sign Vickers - people can land All Pros in the land of the undrafted for this position. That's a good thing.

 

I've got nuttin to add to this.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Guys, his name is Evan Moore.

 

And I still don't see all the hype about Harrison. I don't think he's going to be our savior.