Three-point stance could get the boot

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Three-point stance could get the boot

 

Posted by Mike Florio on February 7, 2010 4:54 PM ET

 

As the NFL looks for ways to reduce the number of concussions at every level of football, Commissioner Roger Goodell said during a Sunday appearance on CBS's Face the Nation that he would not rule out a ban on the three-point stance, according to the Associated Press.

 

The traditional starting position for offensive and defensive linemen allows them to blast into each other, often with their helmets colliding. A two-point stance would allow players to start the process of blocking and shedding blocks with their heads in a higher position.

 

The league has demonstrated over the past few months an unprecedented commitment to reducing the number and severity of head injuries. The effort began not long after a House Committee made it clear to the NFL that, if the league doesn't address the problem, Congress will do it instead.

 

PFT Planet, feel free to let us know how much you like (or, more likely, despise) this possibility.

 

dumbest thing I've ever heard. Most concussions occur at skill positions because you have safetys getting a 20 yard running start on a defenseless receiver, not from 300 pound lineman 6 inches apart.

[K-TownBrown]

If the league does initiate this policy, expect it to help offenses more than prevent concussions. Defensive lineman have an advantage when rushing the passer because in a 3pt stance the d-line is already in a lower position at the snap of the football. In pass protection it actually helps for the o-line to start out in a 2pt stance because they can begin taking steps back to form the pocket.

 

With this rule, d-lineman will be playing higher giving an advantage to the bigger offensive lineman who usually dont have leverage at the point of attack.

 

It will be interesting to see what the league will do.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

If the league does initiate this policy, expect it to help offenses more than prevent concussions. Defensive lineman have an advantage when rushing the passer because in a 3pt stance the d-line is already in a lower position at the snap of the football. In pass protection it actually helps for the o-line to start out in a 2pt stance because they can begin taking steps back to form the pocket.

 

With this rule, d-lineman will be playing higher giving an advantage to the bigger offensive lineman who usually dont have leverage at the point of attack.

 

It will be interesting to see what the league will do.

 

I think it will be about the same, actually. On running plays, it could benefit the defensive linemen tremendously. It's much harder to fire out of a two-point stance than a three-point stance and get your hat lower than the opposing lineman's. If the three point stance is taken away from the offensive lineman, it will take a full second longer for them to get on their blocks, giving the defensive line an extra second to get into their stunts/shifts.

[kshutchins]

dumbest thing I've ever heard. Most concussions occur at skill positions because you have safetys getting a 20 yard running start on a defenseless receiver, not from 300 pound lineman 6 inches apart.

 

According to the recent TIME magazine article on the topic, the amount of brain damage from every blow is significant. It's not just the massive hits that elicit groans from the crowd that are of concern. According to the quoted experts, the elimination of the three point stance is only one of several steps necessary to reduce head injuries for ALL football players not just the high profile ones. Other strategies include reducing the number of contact drills at all levels down to PeeWee leagues and, if I remember correctly, a requirement that coaches be trained and certified in how to prevent brain injuries. Improvements in equipment are also a part of the solution to a very serious problem.

 

[mopaji]

NEWSFLASH TO THE MEDIA!!

 

Football is a contact sport. People tend to run into eachother and guess what? The players know that. They also know that they will make six figure paychecks for a week's worth of "work" doing something they love. We could list a thousand occupations in which people are at risk of injury or long-term negative effects. Are they concerned about making our jobs easier or safer? Not so much.

 

Players understand the risk involved in playing football and they are willing to take that risk. And the concerns don't stop at concussions. They also have bad knees, backs, shoulders, and thousands of dollars worth of nuts and bolts keeping them together. But so do A LOT of other people in their 50's who have worked their entire lives. I don't see anybody calling for less lifting at UPS, less typing at Progressive Insurance, less walking for Postal workers, less heat for chefs, less weight and lower temperatures for steel workers, or less time staring at computer screens for any of us. If you're going to ruin change football because of possible injuries that may occur, than you do it across the board. Its a contact sport in which employees understand the risks and are paid accordingly and then some for their work. The NFL has taken major steps in addressing this problem and are set to introduce new equipment that shoud help. That's should be enough. Changing the way the sport is played is just a joke. What happens when a baseball player gets hit with a ball? Why aren't they calling for automated pitching machines, outfilders standing 100 ft away from the plate, catchers standing up, and tennis balls? What about basketball players and their knee and ankle injuries that linger for a lifetime? Are they going to call for a no running or jumping clause in that sport?

[ballpeen]

I still think reducing the amount of padding a player can wear would also reduce the problem.

 

Who is going to lead with their head if they weren't wearing a helmet??

 

I am not suggesting we go without helmets or shoulder pads, but by reducing them to say the size and type used in the 60's, the problem would be fixed.

 

It might lead to more broken noses or bridge of the nose cuts.

 

It would also lead to better tackling, using the arms to wrap up rather than simply hitting a player to the ground.

 

 

[K-TownBrown]

I think it will be about the same, actually. On running plays, it could benefit the defensive linemen tremendously. It's much harder to fire out of a two-point stance than a three-point stance and get your hat lower than the opposing lineman's. If the three point stance is taken away from the offensive lineman, it will take a full second longer for them to get on their blocks, giving the defensive line an extra second to get into their stunts/shifts.

 

 

Yes, a two point stance rule would help the defense on run plays. However, the league is becoming a pass first league. Teams like the Saints and Colts throw the ball more often and more effectively than they run the ball. If the league continues to evolve in that direction, I think it helps the offenses more.

[Mr. T]

To get rid of the 3 point stance would suck in my opinion, we just witnessed a 7 on 7 championship called the super bowl. This will really hurt a lot of running teams.

 

 

[ballpeen]

I wonder if the center is going to have to snap the ball standing sideways?

[Earl34]

I would hate to see the three-point stance go.

 

I agree with ballpeen that smaller armor might help. Hell, I had a dream that they went back to leather helmets.

 

If you think that linemen don't get massive head injuries because they're "six inches apart" you're sorely mistaken. There are plenty of studies that show organic brain injury in them too.

[ballpeen]

It would have to help. Most everybody here played at least schoolyard football with the neighborhood gang. Sometimes we used helmets and pads...other times with nothing but a ball...and there was a big difference in the way the game was played depending on how everybody was outfitted.

 

If your head isn't as protected by equipment, you are going to take measures to see that it is protected in the way you approach the game.

 

You can still make tackles without slamming your head in to someone.

[kshutchins]

I would hate to see the three-point stance go.

 

I agree with ballpeen that smaller armor might help. Hell, I had a dream that they went back to leather helmets.

 

If you think that linemen don't get massive head injuries because they're "six inches apart" you're sorely mistaken. There are plenty of studies that show organic brain injury in them too.

 

Actually, the Time magazine article reports that John Madden, who is working with the NFL to help resolve the concussion problem, advocates increasing the amount of padding players wear on their bodies; the theory being that modern players have reduced the amount of padding they wear to increase speed and and for "fashion appeal." Madden says, "So the helmet becomes the only protected part of your body ... if players were required to wear more padding, they'd be less likely to consider their helmet a safe weapon."

 

There's significant research being done to develop improved helmets but one of the folks working to develop better equipment "warns against putting too much faith in helmet technology."

 

The article is quite interesting. Apparently it's even been suggested that football employ a penalty box to sideline players guilty of the most egregious head hits.

 

 

[ballpeen]

That makes some sense as well....more or less along the lines of what I was saying without slowing players down, just from a different perspective.

 

 

 

I also think padding outside the helmet....leather or foam is something that should be explored.

 

We basically have the same hard plastic used when I played HS football back in the early, mid 60's.

 

 

Seems like padding outside the helmet would be similar to crush zones on cars.

[daydawg19]

That makes some sense as well....more or less along the lines of what I was saying without slowing players down, just from a different perspective.

 

 

 

I also think padding outside the helmet....leather or foam is something that should be explored.

 

We basically have the same hard plastic used when I played HS football back in the early, mid 60's.

 

 

Seems like padding outside the helmet would be similar to crush zones on cars.

 

We basically have the same hard plastic used when I played HS football back in the early, mid 60's.

 

WOW!!! Waterboy's wore helmet's!!!! hmmm

[Riffer X]

Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Line play is all about firing off the ball and getting low with leverage.

[jlowe]

Protecting the brain is very important, so I understand why they want to get rid of the 3-point stance. but i guarantee this will ruin the fun for linemen.(trust me i was one)

[DawgTracker]

I don't think that linemen hit each other hard enough to cause damage. But once the running back or tight end collide with the linebacker it is often a big time collision.

 

Maybe they should have each team's line count one mississippi, two mississippi before moving. That would allow the QB time to throw the ball so he doesn't get hurt and the running back could already be past the line at that point.

 

Make the players play without cleats so that they cannot brace themselves as well.

[ballpeen]

We basically have the same hard plastic used when I played HS football back in the early, mid 60's.

 

WOW!!! Waterboy's wore helmet's!!!! hmmm

 

 

LOL.....I was a little more than that, but no, I never claim to have been all that good at football. I saw my fair share of the action and started my fair share of games, but no...the SEC wasn't calling me up every couple of days.

 

[DawgTracker]

Maybe they should put an added insulation layer on the outside of the helmet to absorb impact before it reaches someone's head, kind of like on those foam pillows that returns to it's shape. Adding extra layers on the shoulder pads would also help as someone pointed out.

 

When do most concussions occur? Please add something I might have missed...

 

1) Helmet hits the ground (MORE LIKELY TO BE A PROBLEM ON ARTIFICIAL TURF)

2) Helmet to Helmet

3) Shoulder pad or forearm to helmet

4) Helmet hits knee during tackling, tough one to prevent without playing touch football

 

[Brownsfan_Althaus]

what are they going to do next? make our 350 pound lineman wear tutu's?

[sisky fringo]

Maybe they should put an added insulation layer on the outside of the helmet to absorb impact before it reaches someone's head, kind of like on those foam pillows that returns to it's shape. Adding extra layers on the shoulder pads would also help as someone pointed out.

 

When do most concussions occur? Please add something I might have missed...

 

1) Helmet hits the ground (MORE LIKELY TO BE A PROBLEM ON ARTIFICIAL TURF)

2) Helmet to Helmet

3) Shoulder pad or forearm to helmet

4) Helmet hits knee during tackling, tough one to prevent without playing touch football

 

arguably #1 cause of concussion>>>previous concussion(s). some sports science experts claim once you get one they occur much easier after that, leaving you more vulnerable to permanent injury down the road.

 

the functional lives of football players cannot be planned obsolescence. realistically there needs to at least be attempts made.

[Jason J]

I don't think that linemen hit each other hard enough to cause damage. But once the running back or tight end collide with the linebacker it is often a big time collision.

 

Maybe they should have each team's line count one mississippi, two mississippi before moving. That would allow the QB time to throw the ball so he doesn't get hurt and the running back could already be past the line at that point.

 

Make the players play without cleats so that they cannot brace themselves as well.

 

Actually exactly the opposite is true. Linemen tend to accumulate concussions (and the resultant symptoms) at a far greater rate. The reason is the repetitive helmet to helmet contact without giving the body an opportunity to heal. A wide receiver might get blasted once, but may not take another hit for an hour if at all. Running backs tend to be able to protect themselves a little better because they never have to take their eye off the defense, and can mitigate hits by slipping hits and sliding out of bounds. Linemen have no choice.

 

-jj

[ballpeen]

If they didn't wear helmets, they woildn't smack their heads together.

 

 

I am 100% convinced of that.

[Jason J]

If they didn't wear helmets, they woildn't smack their heads together.

 

 

I am 100% convinced of that.

 

I think you may see a bit more discussion of soft-shell helmets rather than no helmet at all. You still have to protect the head from being hit, but moving to a soft, impact-deadening helmet may eliminate the benefit of using one's head as a weapon. Or even if you did, it would be like two nerf balls crashing into each other. If you're still wearing semi-rigid shoulder pads, it would make more sense to use those.

 

-jj

[Riffer X]

I just don't understand why they can't make a helmet with modern technology that absorbs most of the blow. Taking away the collisions at the line of scrimmage will be a total detriment to the game as we know it IMO.