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Rogers for Kolb???


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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Agz3...o&type=lgns

 

“Every man in the world is better than someone else and not as good as someone else.”—William Saroyan

 

When Mike Holmgren first went to Green Bay in 1992, the first personnel action the organization took was to make a trade for quarterback Brett Favre(notes). Even though Favre was drafted in the second round, Packers GM Ron Wolf and Holmgren both thought enough of him to part with a first-round pick to acquire him from the Falcons. Then, when Holmgren moved to Seattle, he took some time before he made another trade for a quarterback, acquiring Matt Hasselbeck(notes) from his former team, the Packers. Hasselbeck was originally a sixth-round pick, but Holmgren was more than willing to pay a first-rounder for his rights because he knew the centerpiece of the organization had to be the quarterback. Now, with Holmgren in Cleveland and again faced with uncertainty at quarterback, the question remains: What will he do at quarterback?

 

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Is the draft an option, or is making a trade? I’m not sure the draft is a viable option for the Browns, based on the talent available. With all the recent speculation, it appears that trade rumors are running rampant in Cleveland, many centering on the Philadelphia Eagles. The Birds have two quarterbacks (Donovan McNabb(notes) and Kevin Kolb(notes)) who may be of interest to Holmgren and his new general manager, Tom Heckert, who also came from Philadelphia. In spite of all the talk, it would be hard for me to imagine that McNabb would not agree to a contract extension to join the Browns, nor would it be hard to imagine the Browns would trade for McNabb without an extension. So that leads me to believe if the Browns have interest in an Eagles quarterback, it would have to center mostly on Kolb. Heckert loved Kolb when he was in Philadelphia, was responsible for drafting him and can accurately describe him to Holmgren with regard to work habits, character and, most important, his potential as a full-time starter.

 

So what’s Kolb worth? I’m sure if the Browns offered their first-round pick, the seventh overall, they would get the Eagles’ full attention. But do they have to offer that much? Better yet, is Kolb worth that much? The Eagles might say that’s not enough, but they also once said they’d never take less than a two for Lito Sheppard(notes), so we know if the Browns offered that pick, the deal is done. I strongly doubt that will happen, but what if the Browns offered Pro Bowl nose tackle Shaun Rogers(notes) for Kolb?

 

Don’t laugh. This kind of deal would allow the Eagles to close the gap between them and the Cowboys. Even Eagles president Joe Banner admitted Tuesday in his talk with the team’s Web site that there’s a gap. Here’s what he said: “I don’t think the difference is as dramatic as one may think just looking at the scores of those two games, but there is a gap there. We have to figure out how to close that gap and be ready to go next year.” For me, the gap is in the Eagles defense, specifically their front seven where, other than Trent Cole(notes), they don’t have a player who can win a one-on-one matchup against the Cowboys’ line.

 

Rogers would be a gap closer on the field. He would give the Eagles a dominating inside player, something they don’t currently have on their roster and someone who can match up with the Cowboys’ size along their offensive line. Rogers is signed to a long-term deal, he’s kept his weight down and he was a model citizen in Cleveland last season — all of which would be appealing to the Eagles. Kolb gives the Browns a future quarterback, something Holmgren knows he needs, without having to part with a draft pick. This trade might be a win/win for both teams.

 

If the Eagles add Rogers and then sign potential free agent defensive end Julius Peppers(notes) of the Panthers (they were not a final-eight team, so they can sign anyone), they would do more that close the gap on the Cowboys—they would pass them. The Eagles will be one of the teams pursuing Peppers since his kind of game would fit perfectly with their defense and give them a blue-chip front seven player.

 

If the Eagles make these two moves, they’ll be a final four team next season, regardless of what they do in the draft. In fact, they can use the draft to help them find a young quarterback to replace the departed Kolb. They know they must close the gap, which is the first step.

 

These moves make sense to me. What do you think?

 

Follow Michael Lombardi on Twitter

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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Agz3...o&type=lgns

 

“Every man in the world is better than someone else and not as good as someone else.”—William Saroyan

 

When Mike Holmgren first went to Green Bay in 1992, the first personnel action the organization took was to make a trade for quarterback Brett Favre(notes). Even though Favre was drafted in the second round, Packers GM Ron Wolf and Holmgren both thought enough of him to part with a first-round pick to acquire him from the Falcons. Then, when Holmgren moved to Seattle, he took some time before he made another trade for a quarterback, acquiring Matt Hasselbeck(notes) from his former team, the Packers. Hasselbeck was originally a sixth-round pick, but Holmgren was more than willing to pay a first-rounder for his rights because he knew the centerpiece of the organization had to be the quarterback. Now, with Holmgren in Cleveland and again faced with uncertainty at quarterback, the question remains: What will he do at quarterback?

 

ADVERTISEMENT

 

Is the draft an option, or is making a trade? I’m not sure the draft is a viable option for the Browns, based on the talent available. With all the recent speculation, it appears that trade rumors are running rampant in Cleveland, many centering on the Philadelphia Eagles. The Birds have two quarterbacks (Donovan McNabb(notes) and Kevin Kolb(notes)) who may be of interest to Holmgren and his new general manager, Tom Heckert, who also came from Philadelphia. In spite of all the talk, it would be hard for me to imagine that McNabb would not agree to a contract extension to join the Browns, nor would it be hard to imagine the Browns would trade for McNabb without an extension. So that leads me to believe if the Browns have interest in an Eagles quarterback, it would have to center mostly on Kolb. Heckert loved Kolb when he was in Philadelphia, was responsible for drafting him and can accurately describe him to Holmgren with regard to work habits, character and, most important, his potential as a full-time starter.

 

So what’s Kolb worth? I’m sure if the Browns offered their first-round pick, the seventh overall, they would get the Eagles’ full attention. But do they have to offer that much? Better yet, is Kolb worth that much? The Eagles might say that’s not enough, but they also once said they’d never take less than a two for Lito Sheppard(notes), so we know if the Browns offered that pick, the deal is done. I strongly doubt that will happen, but what if the Browns offered Pro Bowl nose tackle Shaun Rogers(notes) for Kolb?

 

Don’t laugh. This kind of deal would allow the Eagles to close the gap between them and the Cowboys. Even Eagles president Joe Banner admitted Tuesday in his talk with the team’s Web site that there’s a gap. Here’s what he said: “I don’t think the difference is as dramatic as one may think just looking at the scores of those two games, but there is a gap there. We have to figure out how to close that gap and be ready to go next year.” For me, the gap is in the Eagles defense, specifically their front seven where, other than Trent Cole(notes), they don’t have a player who can win a one-on-one matchup against the Cowboys’ line.

 

Rogers would be a gap closer on the field. He would give the Eagles a dominating inside player, something they don’t currently have on their roster and someone who can match up with the Cowboys’ size along their offensive line. Rogers is signed to a long-term deal, he’s kept his weight down and he was a model citizen in Cleveland last season — all of which would be appealing to the Eagles. Kolb gives the Browns a future quarterback, something Holmgren knows he needs, without having to part with a draft pick. This trade might be a win/win for both teams.

 

If the Eagles add Rogers and then sign potential free agent defensive end Julius Peppers(notes) of the Panthers (they were not a final-eight team, so they can sign anyone), they would do more that close the gap on the Cowboys—they would pass them. The Eagles will be one of the teams pursuing Peppers since his kind of game would fit perfectly with their defense and give them a blue-chip front seven player.

 

If the Eagles make these two moves, they’ll be a final four team next season, regardless of what they do in the draft. In fact, they can use the draft to help them find a young quarterback to replace the departed Kolb. They know they must close the gap, which is the first step.

 

These moves make sense to me. What do you think?

 

Follow Michael Lombardi on Twitter

no no no no no no no no no

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Call me crazy, stupid, Retarded, whatever...but I believe this would actually be a good thing. The defense played very well without Rogers at the end of the year and they actually had better luck stopping the run without him in there than they did with him. Rubin did a hell of a job replacing him. It almost looked like the Cavs do with Lebron in the 4th quarter. When Lebron's in there, they all stand around and watch. That's what the Browns looked like when Rogers was in there. They assumed he would make the play and they'd have less work to do. With Rogers not in there, the entire defense played harder as a team. I'm not saying that I want Rogers gone. But, if we can get a possible franchise QB in here in return for him, then I am all for it. And I believe Kolb could be just that. He has been studying under one of the best in the league. Isn't that what some of you want for the Browns? To bring in Mcnabb to mentor a young QB? Well, we would be getting just that, without having to wait 2-3 years while the mentoring process goes on. That process is complete and Kolb is a QB ready to be starting in the NFL. This deal would not hurt us as much as it would help. The positives outweigh the negatives for both teams in this deal.

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Again... why give up a high pick or a playmaker for a guy that is equivalent to any of the QB's we can get in the draft?

 

Let me guess...you'd rather draft a QB and trade for a veteran (i.e. McNabb) to bring that rookie along? Guess what...Kolb is that Rookie already been brought along by that veteran that you want. Why start the process all over again?

 

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Let me guess...you'd rather draft a QB and trade for a veteran (i.e. McNabb) to bring that rookie along? Guess what...Kolb is that Rookie already been brought along by that veteran that you want. Why start the process all over again?

 

Very, very good point sir. I never actually looked at it that way. I'm on board. Get it done boys.

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Exact same scenerio I started a thread on about two weeks ago. I proposed a 3rd round pick and Shaun Rogers for Kolb. I don't think I would go higher than that but then again, I have complete trust in Heckert/Holmgren/Mangini. If they go higher, I say fine with me. I also brought up the impact Rogers would have in the Eagles 4-3 and how they may be more excited about that than we are about Kolb. Heckert knows that team's needs better than anybody and so I can't imagine he will overpay for the QB he may want.

 

My advice to some Browns fans. Rookies may be fun to talk about and a little exciting; but if you give me or any coach the choice between a 3rd year QB brought up under Andy Reid who is ready to start and an overpaid rookie that needs time to develop? You take the 3rd year guy hands down. It helps your team and saves TONS of cash. And Kolb really looks like Matt Hasselback to me which means he may be starting here for the next 12 years. This trade is my one offseason wish. Now that it looks like Cribbs is getting his extention.

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Let me guess...you'd rather draft a QB and trade for a veteran (i.e. McNabb) to bring that rookie along? Guess what...Kolb is that Rookie already been brought along by that veteran that you want. Why start the process all over again?

Actually no, I don't want us to trade for a veteran to bring along a rookie or Quinn. I don't think Quinn is or can be the guy and neither is DA. All I'm saying is Kolb is still pretty unproven and I don't see the justification of trading picks or one of our playmakers for him.

 

I do see your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong and if we do make this deal and Kolb comes in and lights it up, I'll be there cheering for him like every other Browns fan.

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Williams for Kolb would be great, but i don't think that will happen.

 

Rogers for Kolb, maybe. If that happens, trade Quinn for Brandon Marshall (since we are speculating)

 

 

I know its speculation but espn insider has Marshall going to the Pats. That would just make me sick to watch them with Moss and Marshall.

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Let me guess...you'd rather draft a QB and trade for a veteran (i.e. McNabb) to bring that rookie along? Guess what...Kolb is that Rookie already been brought along by that veteran that you want. Why start the process all over again?
Yes very good point but i am not giving up Rodgers for him ill give you D'Qwell before Rodgers. We took a decade to get a guy like him and im not giving him away for a PROSPECT, a good prospect that plays for a great team that can look like what we got already by throwing on a orange helment and a turd colored jersey. lets worry about a qb in 2011 if neither #3 and #10 stands up and takes whats theirs. gotta get playmaker receiver before and QB.

Peyton manning couldn't win here with what we got

 

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Guest birddog1
no no no no no no no no no

 

Why do you always quote the original post only to respond to it with some idiotic response of your own? Is this to make it look your posts are actually worthwhile? Do you think we forgot what we just read?

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I'll pass on Kevin Kolb. In his limited amount of time, albeit with good numbers, his arm was weak and the offense was different from the offense seen with Mcnabb behind the wheel. Kolb doesnt seem to have the ability to go deep and his arm would only become weaker when we get into November and December. He also does not appear to be that mobile. I'd rather stick with Brady if kolb was the only option.

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First off, RODGERS is a QB that plays for the Packers. ROGERS is a badass dlineman we need to play at DE more.

 

I'm not into the Kolb fascination myself. If they were to let him go it wouldn't be cheap but still the fact they would let him go with an aging McNabb means they don't think that highly of him.

 

He is no more proven than Queen but probably a little more accurate.

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First off, RODGERS is a QB that plays for the Packers. ROGERS is a badass dlineman we need to play at DE more.

 

I'm not into the Kolb fascination myself. If they were to let him go it wouldn't be cheap but still the fact they would let him go with an aging McNabb means they don't think that highly of him.

 

He is no more proven than Queen but probably a little more accurate.

I understand what you are saying about releasing him(trading), but i also think you have to look at it a different way.

 

First, Mcnabb isn't ready for the scrap heap just yet. As easily as we can say he will get injured, we can just as easily say he won't get injured.

 

It isn't beyond reason to think McNabb has 2-3 more years of playing time....time at a fairly high level, so do you keep Kolb who won't help you for 2-3 years or do you bring in a guy who will help you during that 2-3 year span??

 

As close as Philly is to making a legit run, I think the odds are they could seek immediate help and roll the dice they can find another qb in wait over the next couple of seasons, so i don't think them trading Kolb is a reflection Philly really doesn't think he is a good player.

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I understand what you are saying about releasing him(trading), but i also think you have to look at it a different way.

 

First, Mcnabb isn't ready for the scrap heap just yet. As easily as we can say he will get injured, we can just as easily say he won't get injured.

 

It isn't beyond reason to think McNabb has 2-3 more years of playing time....time at a fairly high level, so do you keep Kolb who won't help you for 2-3 years or do you bring in a guy who will help you during that 2-3 year span??

 

As close as Philly is to making a legit run, I think the odds are they could seek immediate help and roll the dice they can find another qb in wait over the next couple of seasons, so i don't think them trading Kolb is a reflection Philly really doesn't think he is a good player.

 

The GOOD news is they now have Phil Savage evaluating talent over there in Philly. In case anyone forgot Savage's claim to fame in Cleveland was "I'm was hired by Lerner because the Browns need to draft better and rebuild continuity through the draft."

 

Then he starts us off with Trent Dilfer, drafts Charlie Frye and picks up a FA QB with an October expiration date. But it got even more outrageous when he traded away all but 5 picks in 2008 and all but 4 picks for 2009. Phil, why did you tell us you were here again? Shall we brainstorm the RARE free agents he hand picked that didn't land on IR? Fraley and Steinbach might be the only 2. Otherwise we lost Rogers, Robaire, Joe J, Bentley, Stewart, Peek-a-boo-boo, Rex Tucker, McKinney, Hadnot, Washington, DA, and others. While McGinest didn't land on IR - it sure seemed like he wore blue jeans to alot of football games. That's the STING when heavy cap hits with alot of mileage and wear and tear on them can't answer the bell and you've given away all your draft picks.

 

I don't think Savage would know a good QB if he saw one so I'm sure he's having trouble telling the difference between his 3 QBs at this time. The good news is I think there might be some QBs in this draft that can equate to Kevin Kolb's ability or exceed it without us having to give up Rogers in the process. At 1 time I would have welcomed this idea BUT the reality is why give up a proven player for a guy Philly felt less comfort in playing than Michael Vick? McNabb ain't coming here especially if he feels deep down he only has 1 or 2 good years remaining.

 

I'm WITH that school of thought that thinks we should move Rogers out to DE with Rubin playing as well as he played. Another rationale behind that was Schaeferling looked good backing up Rubin.

 

How's this for a front 7 (rotation subs)? I don't think we'll be as traditional with strongside LBer and weakside LBer if the goal is to break out more 46 packages. I mean could anyone tell the difference between Wilber Marshall and Otis Wilson when it came to knocking QBs out of games vrs worrying about who had the TE? Trust me when I tell you they were used interchangeably. When you see Wimbley with a hand on the ground, you're seeing him asked to play Richard Dent in the Ryan family tree of defense.

 

LDE - C. Williams (C. Mosely) NT - A. Rubin (B. Schaeferling/R. Smith) RDE - S. Rogers (R. Smith)

 

LOLB - K. Wimbley (M. Benard) LILB - D. Bowens (E. Barton/B. Costanzo) RILB - D. Jackson (K. Maiva) ROLB - M. Roth (D. Veikune/A. Hall)

 

Again, without going too nuts on strongside/weakside gaagaa - you look at the names and they're getting alot more attractive to us as fans. That's some pretty good hocus pocus in 1 year's evolution folks. Why knee jerk to part with any of it?

 

- Tom F.

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LDE - C. Williams (C. Mosely) NT - A. Rubin (B. Schaeferling/R. Smith) RDE - S. Rogers (R. Smith)

 

LOLB - K. Wimbley (M. Benard) LILB - D. Bowens (E. Barton/B. Costanzo) RILB - D. Jackson (K. Maiva) ROLB - M. Roth (D. Veikune/A. Hall)

 

Again, without going too nuts on strongside/weakside gaagaa - you look at the names and they're getting alot more attractive to us as fans. That's some pretty good hocus pocus in 1 year's evolution folks. Why knee jerk to part with any of it?

 

- Tom F.

i like it Tom. we finally have good front 7 depth now. due to this, the only suggestion i have is inserting Kenyon Coleman in place of C. Williams @ LDE...which also conveniently frees him up for a potential Kolb trade.

 

as you know, i am also a proponent of Rogers getting more reps @ DE (and wish RAC was too, about 32 games ago) and like him A LOT more than CW in our 3-4. Rogers might even be versatile enough to play at either end, depending on the matchup, scheme, and approach for each game.

 

here's my take on the article:

Kolb for our #1? hell no. for McNabb? still undecided.

 

Kolb for Rogers? dangle C. Williams and a 4th first. absolute last resort, and that's only if MH, Heckert, EM, and Daboll are completely sold on him.

 

McNabb for Rogers? see above Kolb for Rogers.

 

someone suggested Kolb for Rogers and our 3rd? i wouldn't. our 3rd is a super high 2nd to me and is too valuable imo--i bet we get a great player with it.

 

if Kolb looked like Favre in Atlanta i obviously would though.

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