Too soon for draft talk??

[hammertime]

Maybe a way to defuse all the negativity on these boards is to look ahead to the draft.

 

Predict what pick the Browns might have and who might be there.

 

Who's coming out early? What do we have for trade bait that other team want(hehe).

 

I'm thinking we move up a few picks by offering a few current players.

[Bob806]

I'm all for drafting defense, a nasty linebacker that covers the whole field.

It's hard to say where they'll draft, I'm thinking our record will be 7-9 at best (I hope it's 10-6, but that's a dream).

At 7-9, we'd be picking anywhere from 12-18, so I don't know what difference makers there would be. Let's shop Edwards and maybe K2 and see what they could bring. Edwards is an enigma, if we let him go he'll probably turn into some superstar, but if we can upgrade our D, let's do it. (Is the LB from USC a senior? Malumaluga?spelling off, I'm sure)

[Greythan]

Maybe a way to defuse all the negativity on these boards is to look ahead to the draft.

What negativity? We're in the playoff hunt and going to kick some Texan arse this weekend!

[hammertime]

The prospect of a stud LB could convince people that getting rid of BE is worth it.

I know another scenario involves having a #1 WR waiting to step into BE spot if he can't get it together.

 

Unfortunately we have no one to fill in for BE.

 

People are starting to see that you can't just spend money and win right away. How do you rank this years draft for quality?

[hammertime]

You can't lose Edwards without a replacement. Boldin would be terrific. Love that guy.

 

I think we're going to see some serious overhauls on this team. I think we'd like to keep the offense for Quinn's benefit, but the defense is a do-over. Draft picks and acquisitions will depend on scheme.

 

I wonder if Wimbley can play DE in a 4-3 like the Bears' guys? Like at 270, with Williams, Rogers, and Smith? Leon Williams strikes me as a 4-3 OLB, honestly. Maybe Jackson, too, if we drafted Rey M.

 

Yes, keeping quinn familar is good. The IQ of any player brought in needs to looked, i'm tired of players who basically are just too dumb to function if they also need to think.

[Tobalaz]

We need to draft an ilb in the first, a real smashmouth kind of guy to do some damage in the center of the field.

All I've heard all day on 850 am is a big, physical corner, but unless your front 7 can cut the mustard I don't give a rat's ass who is in the secondary it's going to look like a joke.

[JewDago]

let's assess our needs. assuming our roster stays the same going into next year, our priorities should be, in order:

 

OLB/DE (pass rush)

MLB

S

C/G

T

RB

CB

WR

QB (backup once DA's gone)

3-4 DE (if we stay in the 3-4)

 

switch the first two if you want. what do you guys think?

[brownsfan72116]

Maybe we could pick up Clay Matthews Jr.

We need a good LB and he is pretty good, might be able to snatch him up in a later round.

His dad was one of my all time favorite players and he was great.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

let's assess our needs. assuming our roster stays the same going into next year, our priorities should be, in order:

 

OLB/DE (pass rush)

MLB

S

C/G

T

RB

CB

WR

QB (backup once DA's gone)

3-4 DE (if we stay in the 3-4)

 

switch the first two if you want. what do you guys think?

 

Personally I think a defense is built from the middle out. We have our DT...so now we need a basher MLB and a punishing SS. OLB/DE's will get a HUGE boost in their productivity if we bolster the middle of the D. So, with that in mind...I like taking two of the following players in round 1 and 2:

 

Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

Danelle Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia (but he has to prove he has cleaned up his act)

James Laurinaitis, ILB, OSU (I like his intelligence...should be a Bruschi type)

William Moore, SS, Mizzou (real headhunter and ballhawk!!!)

Patrick Chung, SS, Oregon (reminds me of Palamalu)

Myron Rolle, SS, FSU

 

A combination of 2 of these guys will solidify the middle of the D and allow our CB's to go to single coverage (where they perform better) and our OLB's to attack the line of scrimmage more.

Taylor Mays, SS, USC

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Maybe we could pick up Clay Matthews Jr.

We need a good LB and he is pretty good, might be able to snatch him up in a later round.

From what I hear, Matthews is more a Round 2-3 kind of guy.

[brownsfan72116]

From what I hear, Matthews is more a Round 2-3 kind of guy.

 

thats what i said, snatch him up in a later round, 2 or 3.....Ive seen him play, he looks pretty good to me.... i wouldnt waste our 1st rounder on him but might be a good 2 or 3 round guy and ending giving you 15 great seasons like his dad did

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Personally I think a defense is built from the middle out. We have our DT...so now we need a basher MLB and a punishing SS. OLB/DE's will get a HUGE boost in their productivity if we bolster the middle of the D. So, with that in mind...I like taking two of the following players in round 1 and 2:

 

Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

Rey should definitely be on the list, but you should have Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest right next to him. Both are first half of Round 1 ILB options.

Danelle Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia (but he has to prove he has cleaned up his act)

I liked what I saw of him earlier this year, but then I heard that Georgia's D actually played better without him, which isn't a good sign. I'm also concerned about whether he's well-suited for being the "thumper" 3-4 ILB in our defense.

 

But he'd probably be a value pick in mid-late Round 2/early Round 3 (assuming we get a pick in that range for DA)

James Laurinaitis, ILB, OSU (I like his intelligence...should be a Bruschi type)

Bruschi's more physical (he played DE in college). I like Laurinaitis, but I don't see him being a good fit at 3-4 ILB.

 

Also, I'm not sure safety will be an early-round target for us. Though Sean Jones has been incredibly disappointing this year, the FO may want to give him another year before giving up on him.

 

We could sign him to a DA/Stallworth/Corey Williams-type deal with a large roster bonus in the second year, or we could just franchise him. The franchise tag for safeties is actually one of the cheapest (around $4.3 M last year), so tagging him would make sense if the front office still believes that he could end up being a Pro Bowl-caliber strong safety.

[Riffer X]

Rey should definitely be on the list, but you should have Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest right next to him. Both are first half of Round 1 ILB options.

I liked what I saw of him earlier this year, but then I heard that Georgia's D actually played better without him, which isn't a good sign. I'm also concerned about whether he's well-suited for being the "thumper" 3-4 ILB in our defense.

 

But he'd probably be a value pick in mid-late Round 2/early Round 3 (assuming we get a pick in that range for DA)

Bruschi's more physical (he played DE in college). I like Laurinaitis, but I don't see him being a good fit at 3-4 ILB.

 

Also, I'm not sure safety will be an early-round target for us. Though Sean Jones has been incredibly disappointing this year, the FO may want to give him another year before giving up on him.

 

We could sign him to a DA/Stallworth/Corey Williams-type deal with a large roster bonus in the second year, or we could just franchise him. The franchise tag for safeties is actually one of the cheapest (around $4.3 M last year), so tagging him would make sense if the front office still believes that he could end up being a Pro Bowl-caliber strong safety.

 

Al, Jones is a FA, so I'm not sure the Browns want to risk cap money on an overpriced underachiever coming off injury. Certainly someone will offer to overpay for him, so I think he will leave.

 

Regarding Little Animal: I think he has went from supposedly overrated to now dreadfully underrated by a lot of people. This kid is a solid MLB who I think could also go ILB. We're talking instincts, good speed and quicks, great in coverage and a good heady player that is rarely out of position. He's also athletic and makes big plays on occasion. I think he's a really solid player and will continue at the next level.

[Guest Aloysius]

Al, Jones is a FA, so I'm not sure the Browns want to risk cap money on an overpriced underachiever coming off injury. Certainly someone will offer to overpay for him, so I think he will leave.

I'm not sure what the market will be like for Jones. Teams may react negatively to his knee problems.

 

If he didn't get hurt this year, there probably would have been a huge demand for him, especially since the other FA safety options are aging and injury-prone vets (Rodney Harrison, Mike Brown, Brian Dawkins).

 

Now...I'm not so sure.

Regarding Little Animal: I think he has went from supposedly overrated to now dreadfully underrated by a lot of people. This kid is a solid MLB who I think could also go ILB. We're talking instincts, good speed and quicks, great in coverage and a good heady player that is rarely out of position. He's also athletic and makes big plays on occasion. I think he's a really solid player and will continue at the next level.

Definitely a solid 4-3 MLB (or maybe an OLB in a Tampa 2). I just don't think he's well-suited to playing 3-4 ILB.

[Guest Aloysius]

Matthews didn't start until his senior year... and he's pretty situational now. But a great athlete and a late bloomer who will be a good pro, I bet.

I haven't seen enough of him to say for sure, but I don't think he's such a good fit for us.

 

I'm curious about his size - he's listed at 6'4", 240 lbs., but he looks smaller than that. So he's probably limited to playing weakside OLB in a 3-4, which is the spot Wimbley & Alex Hall are best suited for.

 

And I know he's leading USC in sacks, but I don't see quite the burst to warrant drafting him that high. He's quick enough to get to the passer in college, but I worry that he'll just get engulfed by NFL lineman.

 

When he was being touted as a mid-Day Two guy, taking a flier on him made a lot of sense. But if his draft stock has surged to Day One, I'm not sure he'd be a good value.

 

If we're for some reason drafting a 3-4 ROLB in Round 2, I'd take Clemson's Ricky Sapp over him.

[JewDago]

everyone loves maualuga. that's a given. as far as laurinaitis goes, i think it's more that people aren't hyping him up anymore. we know he's a solid LB, but we also recognize that he's not the second coming of urlacher. either would be an upgrade over what we have in the middle, though. he's a bit small for the 3-4, though.

 

mays, moore and chung interest me. i've seen mays and chung play, but mays dropped into coverage most of the time. chung had more freedom to roam and did well doing so. moore is, by all accounts, a beastly hitter. i don't really know much about him.

 

i think mays has the highest ceiling, but i think he'll likely go top 10, somewhere i'd like to think we won't be picking. if we could get him, it's who i'd want for our first-round pick. players like mays don't come around often, and when they do, you have to grab them.

 

if we can't get mays, i'd like to see us go LB in the first round. george selvie is an animal on the edge. he's the kind of pass-rushing force that the 3-4 is built for and that we're missing right now. brian orakpo of texas is the same kind of player, but he's been nicked up this year, something that could hurt his stock.

 

some people like everette brown from florida state, a DE that can transition to OLB in the 3-4. i watched him sunday and wasn't impressed. he didn't really do much other than get blocked, and we all know a former florida state DE turned OLB who does the exact same thing.

 

i like matthews as a mid-to-late round pick. the legacy thing would be cool and he's likely going to be at least a solid special teams contributor if not an actual rotational player.

 

i'd like to see us keep jones if we can, but if he wants huge money, i don't think that would be feasible. he's too often hurt, a problem i have with both our safeties, and a reason i think safety should be a high priority for us depending on where we're drafting and the players available.

 

edit: just looked up ricky sapp. the book on him is that he's a one-dimensional speed rusher who lacks strength. sounds like a wimbley clone, unfortunately.

 

we could also end up going corner. not our most glaring need, but a shutdown corner could make our secondary very difficult to throw at.

[Guest Aloysius]

if we can't get mays, i'd like to see us go LB in the first round. george selvie is an animal on the edge. he's the kind of pass-rushing force that the 3-4 is built for and that we're missing right now. brian orakpo of texas is the same kind of player, but he's been nicked up this year, something that could hurt his stock.

Selvie's also been hurt (high ankle sprain). There was even some talk that he'd return for his senior year because of it, but I don't think that's likely.

 

Because of the injury, I haven't really got a chance to see what Selvie can do. On the other hand, I was extremely impressed with what I saw out of Brian Orakpo, but durability is a pretty big concern with him.

 

edit: just looked up ricky sapp. the book on him is that he's a one-dimensional speed rusher who lacks strength. sounds like a wimbley clone, unfortunately.

Yeah, I'm not completely enamored with Sapp, but I think he's better than Matthews.

 

And I think both guys are projected to play a spot we're hoping Wimbley (or maybe Hall) solidifies. We need a bigger guy for the other OLB spot. Guys like Orakpo, Selvie, and Everette Brown fit the mold.

 

some people like everette brown from florida state, a DE that can transition to OLB in the 3-4. i watched him sunday and wasn't impressed. he didn't really do much other than get blocked, and we all know a former florida state DE turned OLB who does the exact same thing.

Dunno. His back to back 3 sack games were pretty impressive.

 

But the comparison to Wimbley definitely exists, though Brown is bigger & a little more physical.

[hammertime]

Savage went to draft a pass rusher from Northern Illinois who goes 6'1" and 250. Compared to Elvis Dumervil, just a couple inches taller.

 

Lauranaitis doesn't make sense to me next to Jackson. We need a boomer like Rey... or Bea Bell, if he works out.

 

 

ok say Rey is the guy. How do we get him? There is no way he falls to us. What are you willing to part with? picks-players?

[Guest Aloysius]

Savage went to draft a pass rusher from Northern Illinois who goes 6'1" and 250. Compared to Elvis Dumervil, just a couple inches taller.

Really? Sweet.

 

That'd be Larry English, a guy I really like.

 

The Dumervil comparison is interesting. Another one I've heard is James Harrison: a good pass-rusher who gets the max out of his natural physical abilities.

 

In the game I watched, I was impressed by how disruptive he was in the run game, though that may have been partially due to the poor level of competition he was facing. Still, it'd be nice to have an OLB who could help improve our run defense.

 

nfldraftscout projects him to go in the 4th Round, but he could end up going much higher than that.

[JewDago]

english's measurables look good. i'd like to see him in a game.

 

everette brown's three-game stretch is something i've heard quite a bit about. he definitely has the ability to be dominant, he needs needs to be consistent. against boston college, he didn't show up while i was watching.

 

forgot that selvie's been hurt. is probably good for us: gives us a better chance to snag him.

 

i agree that we need someone big inside with d'qwell. laurinaitis isn't that guy.

 

i like seeing reports on people like english, guys who aren't from big-time programs. LB and RB are the positions i think it's most likely to find late-round steals for. let's hope bell can be one of those steals and let us concentrate on safety and pass rush in the first two rounds this year.

[ballpeen]

Yes, it is too early.

 

Until you know where you are drafting and exactly who is declaring for the draft, it doesn't make much sense to get very involved.

 

 

[Riffer X]

Great thread guys and good info.

 

Regarding a couple players mentioned: I can never find it in me to underestimate a Mathews. That family has genes that should be cloned, so I would expect the kid to get better and better as he gets older, but that's just supposition.

 

Not to harp on Laurinaitis because of my bias for OSU, but I wasn't really referring to the Browns taking him to play next to Jackson. However, now that it's been brought up, the kid can tackle and is athletic. Plus, I feel this size thing at ILB is grossly overrated. I've seen JL take on two linemen at once, stand them up and make the tackle 2 yards downfield. One thing is for sure, that garbage that happened the other night would not have happened to him if he was involved. The kid is a great tackler, doesn't over pursue and takes correct angles.

 

So much of playing ILB nowadays is playing smart in coverage and the open field, which we are putrid at. Leon Williams is absolutely clueless out there in coverage. He will drop too deep with nobody around him and allow an underneath route right in front of him with all sorts of cushion. Of course, then he can't close on the tackle since he leaves so much space. Honestly, I want football players back there, not video game robots with the proper "size and speed", of which JL's not lacking much. Doug Lesmerises (OSU Dealer Beat Writer) wrote a very convincing article awhile back on why JL is great and not just good. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it correlates to a lot of my beliefs. Also, keep in mind JL is not playing behind a good dline at OSU, not even close. They are almost woeful at the interior positions and nobody demands double teams. I watch a lot of DVR'd games and pay close attention to JL, rarely do I see him make a mistake.

 

Regarding Maualuga, I feel he may be more hype than what he is. Reason I say that is I don't see him being real instinctual and I believe he will be the type that is out of position a lot but make the occasional big play that stands out. Really, the key to good linebacking is consistency, and I'm not sure he is that. I'll be serious to see what his combine numbers are as far as explosiveness and shuttle speed. I'll venture to guess JL has better numbers overall.

[hammertime]

Great thread guys and good info.

 

Regarding a couple players mentioned: I can never find it in me to underestimate a Mathews. That family has genes that should be cloned, so I would expect the kid to get better and better as he gets older, but that's just supposition.

 

Not to harp on Laurinaitis because of my bias for OSU, but I wasn't really referring to the Browns taking him to play next to Jackson. However, now that it's been brought up, the kid can tackle and is athletic. Plus, I feel this size thing at ILB is grossly overrated. I've seen JL take on two linemen at once, stand them up and make the tackle 2 yards downfield. One thing is for sure, that garbage that happened the other night would not have happened to him if he was involved. The kid is a great tackler, doesn't over pursue and takes correct angles.

 

So much of playing ILB nowadays is playing smart in coverage and the open field, which we are putrid at. Leon Williams is absolutely clueless out there in coverage. He will drop too deep with nobody around him and allow an underneath route right in front of him with all sorts of cushion. Of course, then he can't close on the tackle since he leaves so much space. Honestly, I want football players back there, not video game robots with the proper "size and speed", of which JL's not lacking much. Doug Lesmerises (OSU Dealer Beat Writer) wrote a very convincing article awhile back on why JL is great and not just good. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it correlates to a lot of my beliefs. Also, keep in mind JL is not playing behind a good dline at OSU, not even close. They are almost woeful at the interior positions and nobody demands double teams. I watch a lot of DVR'd games and pay close attention to JL, rarely do I see him make a mistake.

 

Regarding Maualuga, I feel he may be more hype than what he is. Reason I say that is I don't see him being real instinctual and I believe he will be the type that is out of position a lot but make the occasional big play that stands out. Really, the key to good linebacking is consistency, and I'm not sure he is that. I'll be serious to see what his combine numbers are as far as explosiveness and shuttle speed. I'll venture to guess JL has better numbers overall.

 

I hope we don't get to wrapped up in the physical speciman part and really make sure its a smart and career oriented player. I know that sounds cheesy but you have to be able to think, adjust, etc.

 

[Guest Aloysius]

english's measurables look good. i'd like to see him in a game.

Unfortunately, it'll be hard to find a N. Illinois game televised out in Cali.

 

One thing I'd recommend is checking to see if your ISP subscribes to ESPN360. You can do that by checking if your ISP is on this list or by going to espn360.com and seeing if it says that your ISP carries the service.

 

Not only does espn360 show a lot of the small school games, but it also allows you to watch replays of select games from earlier in the season. So if you want to see Larry English, you just look for a N. Illinois game. Or if you want to see Aaron Curry, find a Wake Forest game (the one against Ole Miss was great).

 

Without espn360, I probably wouldn't have been able either of those guys play.

 

i like seeing reports on people like english, guys who aren't from big-time programs. LB and RB are the positions i think it's most likely to find late-round steals for. let's hope bell can be one of those steals and let us concentrate on safety and pass rush in the first two rounds this year.

I agree & hope the same thing about Bell.

[Guest Aloysius]

A RealGM interview of an anonymous scout was circulating around the web a couple weeks back.

 

Here's what the scout had to say about Little Animal & Rey Rey:

 

On Laurinaitis:

Laurinaitis scares me a little. There are times where he looks like he’s thinking too much and he runs stiff. In the right defense he’s got a chance to be real good, but he’s no Tampa 2 guy. I’ll tell you one thing I love about him: James Laurinaitis thrives when challenged. You can’t coach that, you can’t teach that, and it’s that quality that separates the great from the good. Ray Lewis has it, Pat Willis has that. And Laurinaitis has it.

On Maualuga:

Well, I’m not a west coast guy but I just do not get the hype around Rey Maualuga (USC linebacker). So what if he’s a giant? That kid has zero football instincts and he isn’t one bit better than when he got there. Every time he actually makes a play he looks great, but watch him on the plays where he isn’t making the tackle. He’s taking himself out of plays and he cannot turn at all.

 

I know our west coast scout feels the same and he will not be high on our board.

And this one was interesting:

Who are the top 3 players you’ve rated this year?

 

Scout: My top evaluation was Malcolm Jenkins like we talked about. Next would be Jeremy Maclin (WR/RS Missouri). That kid is dynamite. How well he can cut at full speed is rare. His hands are better than people think. Let me think about third. I would say Aaron Curry from Wake Forest or big Eugene Monroe from Virginia. Those kids aren’t really in my area but I’ve seen a lot of coaches tape of them.

[Riffer X]

This guy confirms what I think of Rey Rey. He's more hype than substance.

 

JL may think too much at times, that's legit and I agree with it. However, a lot has to do with the defense he's in. He can't make mistakes without much line help, so he doesn't get to pin his ears back as much.

 

Also agree about Jenkins, he is going to be a stud. People forget how big he is, too.

 

Al, you're great to have on board man.

[Guest Aloysius]

Thanks, Russ.

 

Now all we need to do is get Heck back here. He's the real draft guru.

[Guest Aloysius]

This guy confirms what I think of Rey Rey. He's more hype than substance.

Part of the reason why I lean towards Curry over Rey Rey is because of comments like these (and yours).

 

Both guys should be good 3-4 ILB's, so why not go with the guy who seems less likely to be a bust?

 

Also, I think Curry's a little more versatile. If we end up switching to a 4-3, I'd much prefer to have a quick, smart guy like Curry over a guy who, while great playing down-hill, often over pursues and isn't as good in coverage.

 

Also agree about Jenkins, he is going to be a stud. People forget how big he is, too.

Yeah. I think it's a rarity that you can get a guy who not only has the potential to be a shutdown corner, but also has the potential to be a pretty good safety.

 

Though I'd prefer we go LB in Round 1, I understand the appeal of bringing in a guy who could fix whatever problem we have in our secondary, whether it be at CB or safety (assuming Pool would move to SS).

 

Also, I love it when a DB can blitz.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiPhg9R3yA

 

Gotta love the hustle on that play.

[Canton Mike]

Great thread guys and good info.

 

Regarding a couple players mentioned: I can never find it in me to underestimate a Mathews. That family has genes that should be cloned, so I would expect the kid to get better and better as he gets older, but that's just supposition.

 

Not to harp on Laurinaitis because of my bias for OSU, but I wasn't really referring to the Browns taking him to play next to Jackson. However, now that it's been brought up, the kid can tackle and is athletic. Plus, I feel this size thing at ILB is grossly overrated. I've seen JL take on two linemen at once, stand them up and make the tackle 2 yards downfield. One thing is for sure, that garbage that happened the other night would not have happened to him if he was involved. The kid is a great tackler, doesn't over pursue and takes correct angles.

 

So much of playing ILB nowadays is playing smart in coverage and the open field, which we are putrid at. Leon Williams is absolutely clueless out there in coverage. He will drop too deep with nobody around him and allow an underneath route right in front of him with all sorts of cushion. Of course, then he can't close on the tackle since he leaves so much space. Honestly, I want football players back there, not video game robots with the proper "size and speed", of which JL's not lacking much. Doug Lesmerises (OSU Dealer Beat Writer) wrote a very convincing article awhile back on why JL is great and not just good. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it correlates to a lot of my beliefs. Also, keep in mind JL is not playing behind a good dline at OSU, not even close. They are almost woeful at the interior positions and nobody demands double teams. I watch a lot of DVR'd games and pay close attention to JL, rarely do I see him make a mistake.

 

Regarding Maualuga, I feel he may be more hype than what he is. Reason I say that is I don't see him being real instinctual and I believe he will be the type that is out of position a lot but make the occasional big play that stands out. Really, the key to good linebacking is consistency, and I'm not sure he is that. I'll be serious to see what his combine numbers are as far as explosiveness and shuttle speed. I'll venture to guess JL has better numbers overall.

 

How can you say size at ILB is over rated?? Didn't the Steelers absolutely WASTE a pick on a skinny ILB from Kent State some years ago?....Boy, that lightweight Lambert kid would never amount to anything!!...Just the HOF, that's all! I agree with you...I call it the "double I"...Intelligence & Intensity, & that's JL. I also agree with the Mathews kid...what lineage HE has!

Mike

[JewDago]

good to know that i wasn't crazy when i was watching USC against stanford. maualuga didn't show up a lot for me. the guy i saw making the most plays was 26, will harris.

 

brian cushing made his fair share of plays during the course of the game and can also play multiple positions; he'll be in there no matter what defensive style we play. he just makes plays no matter where he is on the field and that's something that's valuable no matter what position a player's at.

 

his durability is a concern, though.