Should Browns pursue Peppers

[The Gipper]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4937632

 

Above is the article about the fact that the Panthers are going to allow Julius Peppers to pursue free agency.

 

Should? Could? Can? the Browns pursue signing Peppers? Other than paying him a bunch of Randy Lerner's money, what is the downside? If you got him as a FA you would not have to consider going after a pass rusher with our #7 pick, fair to say?

[choco]

one year deal only.....if the cap comes back in 2011, we dont wanna be holding another old-timer that didn't produce.

[next2nothing]

I wouldn't say no to it. I like choco's idea but I don't know if Peppers will sign a one-year deal. He's gonna look for and want a huge contract.

[The Gipper]

one year deal only.....if the cap comes back in 2011, we dont wanna be holding another old-timer that didn't produce.

 

 

How old is Peppers?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

How old is Peppers?

 

30.

[PlayoffsIN09]

If we were Superbowl contenders next year then Yes. So obviously my answer is NO!

[mopaji]

I say no.

 

Mangini started building this thing the right way last year when he went looking for young, hungry players. I have a feeling Heckert and Holmgren will want to do the same thing. Peppers is really good but it wouldn't be worth it to us.

[Zombo]

Sure, I'd go after him.

 

This team is closer to contending than most people think.

 

If we find a QB that changes everything ... the young receivers will mature. The only other real hole is the secondary and I can see that being shored up over the off-season.

 

We have a good offensive line, a good running game, and if we add Peppers our Front seven will be tough defensively. Plus we will grow and mature in the second year of Mangini's system, with the added stability of Holmgren and the guys we have added to the front office.

 

Cribbs, Rogers and Thomas are All-Pros. Mack, Harrison and Wright are rising stars. Guys like D-Q and Steiny are solid starters. Lots of depth on the D front -seven. Massaquoi could be a future star. This team is not without talent, and it has good coaching, and now good franchise leadership and direction.

 

There's no reason to think we can't contend in 11, and if not, certainly in 12 and 13. I would pay Peppers handsomely for three years. He is EXACTLY what we need, isn't he?

 

Zombo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Sure, I'd go after him.

 

This team is closer to contending than most people think.

 

If we find a QB that changes everything ... the young receivers will mature. The only other real hole is the secondary and I can see that being shored up over the off-season.

 

We have a good offensive line, a good running game, and if we add Peppers our Front seven will be tough defensively. Plus we will grow and mature in the second year of Mangini's system, with the added stability of Holmgren and the guys we have added to the front office.

 

Cribbs, Rogers and Thomas are All-Pros. Mack, Harrison and Wright are rising stars. Guys like D-Q and Steiny are solid starters. Lots of depth on the D front -seven. Massaquoi could be a future star. This team is not without talent, and it has good coaching, and now good franchise leadership and direction.

 

There's no reason to think we can't contend in 11, and if not, certainly in 12 and 13. I would pay Peppers handsomely for three years. He is EXACTLY what we need, isn't he?

 

Zombo

 

When did we get a good running game?

 

I mean, I like to be positive, but I don't see us contending in '11. Maybe not even in '12.

[Zombo]

When did we get a good running game?

 

 

We finished 8th in the league in rushing.

 

Did you catch the end of the Season?

 

We were burying guys ... Thomas, Mack, Steiny, Vickers ... blowing holes wide open and Hharrison was scampering right through them.

 

It was the best thing about the whole Season. Our running game was awesome down the stretch.

 

Zombo

--We have excellent blockers, and now a back that takes advantage of it...

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

We finished 8th in the league in rushing.

 

Did you catch the end of the Season?

 

We were burying guys ... Thomas, Mack, Steiny, Vickers ... blowing holes wide open and Hharrison was scampering right through them.

 

It was the best thing about the whole Season. Our running game was awesome down the stretch.

 

Zombo

--We have excellent blockers, and now a back that takes advantage of it...

 

 

I mean, I saw us run for a bunch of yards against pretty terrible teams, yeah. I did see that. Nothing that really impressed me too much, to tell you the truth. That's what we should have been doing. Especially when you're running the ball 30+ times a game.

[Zombo]

I mean, I saw us run for a bunch of yards against pretty terrible teams, yeah. I did see that. Nothing that really impressed me too much, to tell you the truth. That's what we should have been doing. Especially when you're running the ball 30+ times a game.

 

Steelers, Jacksonville and SD were not terrible.

 

KC and Oakland are ... but what's wrong with doing "what we should have been doing"? That is a team that is dictating the outcome, when you can pound people.

 

San Diego was giving up 117 yds per game, we rushed for 115

 

Pitt 89 per game ... we rushed for 171.

 

KC 156 per game ... we more than doubled that at 351

 

Oak 155 per game ... we got 164

 

Jax 116 per game ... we got 214.

 

And, as you know, this was all done with very little passing game to speak of. They knew we were going to run and they couldn't stop us.

 

Vickers is the best blocking fullback I've ever seen with the Browns, and I think he is among the best in the league.

 

By the end of the year Mack was destroying people at center, Steinbach was all over the place opening holes and I don't have to tell you about Thomas.

 

Mangini brought in some good blockers at tight end for a change too.

 

I'm excited about our running game and our offensive line. If we bring in a veteran QB like Bulger or Mcnabb and our defense continues to improve under mangini like it should ... there is no reason why we are not one of those 9-7 type teams competing for a playoff spot next year.

 

Beating the bad teams is half the battle ... but Pittsburgh and their #3 rushing defense was in playoff contention and we shredded them for 171.

 

I'm encouraged.

 

Why not bring in some top-notch veterans this off-season ... what are we waiting for?

 

Zombo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Steelers, Jacksonville and SD were not terrible.

 

KC and Oakland are ... but what's wrong with doing "what we should have been doing"? That is a team that is dictating the outcome, when you can pound people.

 

San Diego was giving up 117 yds per game, we rushed for 115

 

Pitt 89 per game ... we rushed for 171.

 

KC 156 per game ... we more than doubled that at 351

 

Oak 155 per game ... we got 164

 

Jax 116 per game ... we got 214.

 

And, as you know, this was all done with very little passing game to speak of. They knew we were going to run and they couldn't stop us.

 

Vickers is the best blocking fullback I've ever seen with the Browns, and I think he is among the best in the league.

 

By the end of the year Mack was destroying people at center, Steinbach was all over the place opening holes and I don't have to tell you about Thomas.

 

Mangini brought in some good blockers at tight end for a change too.

 

I'm excited about our running game and our offensive line. If we bring in a veteran QB like Bulger or Mcnabb and our defense continues to improve under mangini like it should ... there is no reason why we are not one of those 9-7 type teams competing for a playoff spot next year.

 

Beating the bad teams is half the battle ... but Pittsburgh and their #3 rushing defense was in playoff contention and we shredded them for 171.

 

I'm encouraged.

 

Why not bring in some top-notch veterans this off-season ... what are we waiting for?

 

Zombo

 

 

Okay. I was assuming you were crediting Harrison with the sudden explosion of our running game. I'm glad you brought up those stats, because it goes a long way in showing that generally any runningback could have rushed for an inordinate amount of yards behind our "revamped" offensive line near the end of the season. Harrison gouged KC and Oakland for a great amount of yards, but struggled against SD and Pittsburgh. Jennings, on the other hand, had a good game against Pittsburgh and a decent game against SD. I'm more encouraged by his performance than Harrison's.

[Riffer X]

I mean, I saw us run for a bunch of yards against pretty terrible teams, yeah. I did see that. Nothing that really impressed me too much, to tell you the truth. That's what we should have been doing. Especially when you're running the ball 30+ times a game.

 

Come on man, you know the game pretty well. Can't you just see that Harrison has "it"?

 

The kid is an explosive back and there is no reason he shouldn't be coming into his prime now that he has finally gotten his shot. He's by far the best looking back we've had since the return....even better than Ben Gay

 

People forget Hadnot was not ready most of the season too, so given what the running game did at the end of the year was absolutely mind boggling after watching this team the last ten years. Even in the Belichick era they couldn't run the ball when they wanted to. Harrison had many runs for 9 or 10 yard gains that Lewis wouldn't have gotten a yard. James Jackson may have gotten two and Droughns or Karim Abdul Jabbar might have got three, but there is no doubt in my mind this kid can get after it.

 

I think he's the next big time back in the league, but then again I'm a ridiculous Browns homer. I also am with Zombo in that Vickers is a serious weapon at FB, we have to keep him around which we will. Davis showed signs and Jennings looks like a steal, so I'm very excited about the running prospects next year. Only thing to keep in mind is that the guys playing RT can road grade but not pass block for shit, so if we do replace RT hopefully he can continue the running game and protect the passer.

[Riffer X]

Sure, I'd go after him.

 

This team is closer to contending than most people think.

 

If we find a QB that changes everything ... the young receivers will mature. The only other real hole is the secondary and I can see that being shored up over the off-season.

 

We have a good offensive line, a good running game, and if we add Peppers our Front seven will be tough defensively. Plus we will grow and mature in the second year of Mangini's system, with the added stability of Holmgren and the guys we have added to the front office.

 

Cribbs, Rogers and Thomas are All-Pros. Mack, Harrison and Wright are rising stars. Guys like D-Q and Steiny are solid starters. Lots of depth on the D front -seven. Massaquoi could be a future star. This team is not without talent, and it has good coaching, and now good franchise leadership and direction.

 

There's no reason to think we can't contend in 11, and if not, certainly in 12 and 13. I would pay Peppers handsomely for three years. He is EXACTLY what we need, isn't he?

 

Zombo

 

Word, hence why Heckert made the comment he was surprised at how talented this team really is when he arrived. Like he said, from the outside looking in you would never know until you get here. I don't think people understand we ran apeshit over people at the end of the year with ten in the box at times and with absolutely no passing game. We also showed huge improvement in getting after the QB the latter part of the year and shored up the tackling. A few key pieces here and there and this team can compete.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Come on man, you know the game pretty well. Can't you just see that Harrison has "it"?

 

The kid is an explosive back and there is no reason he shouldn't be coming into his prime now that he has finally gotten his shot. He's by far the best looking back we've had since the return....even better than Ben Gay

 

People forget Hadnot was not ready most of the season too, so given what the running game did at the end of the year was absolutely mind boggling after watching this team the last ten years. Even in the Belichick era they couldn't run the ball when they wanted to. Harrison had many runs for 9 or 10 yard gains that Lewis wouldn't have gotten a yard. James Jackson may have gotten two and Droughns or Karim Abdul Jabbar might have got three, but there is no doubt in my mind this kid can get after it.

 

I think he's the next big time back in the league, but then again I'm a ridiculous Browns homer. I also am with Zombo in that Vickers is a serious weapon at FB, we have to keep him around which we will. Davis showed signs and Jennings looks like a steal, so I'm very excited about the running prospects next year. Only thing to keep in mind is that the guys playing RT can road grade but not pass block for shit, so if we do replace RT hopefully he can continue the running game and protect the passer.

 

I do like to think I know a decent bit about the game, but I honestly don't believe he has "it" anymore than than most of the other backs in the league. He's got something, you're right. He's quite explosive, and has pretty decent vision. But he doesn't wow me as much as he obviously does you.

 

I'm trying to be completely objective, and if I saw him on any other team, I honestly don't believe he would awe me as much.

 

I could be biased, though. I do tend to like one-cut, "mid-power" type backs that have good speed (a la James Davis) as opposed to pure speed runners that can get the outside (more up Harrison's alley, to me). I haven't seen Harrison lay a big hit on a would-be tackler yet, and that's what really bothers me. I understand the necessity for speed in this game, but you can't outrun absolutely everyone. Every once in a while, I'd like to see him lower his head and absolutely punish someone for attempting an arm tackle on him. He has yet to prove that to me. That's not his game per se, and I get that, but that's what it's going to take for me. He's had a couple good moves, a nice spin or two, but to me that's all flash and no substance. I think the greatest asset an RB can have is the ability to lay a hit on a roving LB, which creates doubt in the minds of the defense. Jamal had that, but sadly lost the speed somewhere around his 80th birthday. The jury is out on Harrison, and I admit I was too harsh. But I'd rather have low expectations and get proved wrong than have high expectations and be disappointed.

 

And I do agree on Vickers, he seems to be the real deal. I've been singing his praises since he came on board with us. He's definitely one of, if not the, best FB in the game.

 

Plus, I'm a little weary in putting a lot of faith behind the last three games just because of the situation. We faced bad teams who had no shot at the playoffs, had no help offensively, and two of which had coaches in precarious positions.

[mopaji]

Sure, I'd go after him.

 

This team is closer to contending than most people think.

 

If we find a QB that changes everything ... the young receivers will mature. The only other real hole is the secondary and I can see that being shored up over the off-season.

 

We have a good offensive line, a good running game, and if we add Peppers our Front seven will be tough defensively. Plus we will grow and mature in the second year of Mangini's system, with the added stability of Holmgren and the guys we have added to the front office.

 

Cribbs, Rogers and Thomas are All-Pros. Mack, Harrison and Wright are rising stars. Guys like D-Q and Steiny are solid starters. Lots of depth on the D front -seven. Massaquoi could be a future star. This team is not without talent, and it has good coaching, and now good franchise leadership and direction.

 

There's no reason to think we can't contend in 11, and if not, certainly in 12 and 13. I would pay Peppers handsomely for three years. He is EXACTLY what we need, isn't he?

 

Zombo

 

You know what, at first I said no because he wouldn't help us as much as he would cost us in salary. But after reading your post, I think I've changed my mind. And I'm glad somebody else here sees MoMass as future star. However, I would like to see Harrison dealt while his stock is high. Davis, Jennings, and a possible veteran FA should be more than enough.

 

[The Gipper]

When did we get a good running game?

 

I mean, I like to be positive, but I don't see us contending in '11. Maybe not even in '12.

 

I definitely see us contending in 2011. Hell, given the parity, etc. of the league, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the Browns could be in the hunt for a playoff spot this coming year. If we could go from 4-12 in 2006 to 10-6 in 2007, why could we not go from 5-11 this year to 10-6 next year. Obviously it will take some doing, and I am not necessarily anticipating it, but it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, it happens all the time in the NFL. The Saints went from 8-8 to Super Bowl Champs. Perhaps a cog like Peppers would be an element to get us into contention.

[choco]

not that he's too old....but having him in there trying to get over this huge hump will only keep our future OLB's from developing. what benefit would there be trying to teach a vet a new position over a rookie?

 

besides, even kampman could be on the bubblesince a 7th round rookie stepped in and played well in his absence.

 

"OLB Brad Jones (Green Bay seventh round): One of the biggest surprises in the NFL last season. Jones took over when Aaron Kampman went down with a knee injury and was a far more natural fit at the 3-4 outside linebacker position. Kampman is an unrestricted free agent who could be let go, putting more pressure on Jones to improve. The Pack likely will add another OLB as insurance."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

 

 

i just dont see the need to add more vets.....drafting rookies does no good if they never see the field.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I definitely see us contending in 2011. Hell, given the parity, etc. of the league, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the Browns could be in the hunt for a playoff spot this coming year. If we could go from 4-12 in 2006 to 10-6 in 2007, why could we not go from 5-11 this year to 10-6 next year. Obviously it will take some doing, and I am not necessarily anticipating it, but it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, it happens all the time in the NFL. The Saints went from 8-8 to Super Bowl Champs. Perhaps a cog like Peppers would be an element to get us into contention.

 

Prepare yourself, this is a doozy.

 

It's not beyond the realm of possibility, sure. But I don't think theres a high statistical chance in its favor. Sure, I guess one could argue that each team has the exact same chances in the offseason at winning the upcoming Super Bowl, but we all know that's not how it works. The odds are stacked in our favor, we're a young team with young talent, a quarterback "controversy", a new front office, and a coaching staff in it's second year. We'd have to overcome a lot to make it into the postseason.

 

The Saints were a different story. They were a team right on the cusp of being good, but had experienced some bad breaks. Their offense and defense was pretty solid last season, they didn't have to make too many offseason moves (especially at the skill positions). Their coaching staff remained virtually unchanged, and they had a strong front office already in place. It's a tale of two cities, really. Not saying it can't happen with us, because it can. But you have to admit, it is highly unlikely.

 

As for the addition of Peppers- generally, I'm against it. I live in South Carolina, and have attened many a Panthers game. My close friend is a gigantic Panthers fan, and Julius Peppers is his number two all-time favorite Panther, behind Chris Weinke. I think Ricky Proehl is also included somewhere in there, actually. That isn't important. What is important, however, is the fact that I have seen Julius Peppers in person at least once a year for his entire career. The guy is a beast, I would have loved to have gotten him....a couple of years ago. He's a freak of nature, and he's easily the best 4-3 defensive end in the league.

 

But, as people have mentioned countless times, he's getting old. I still think he would have a couple solid years of performance in him if he were to stay in the 4-3. Sadly, he wants to transition to OLB in the 3-4. That, I believe, will severly limit his production. I'm not saying he won't catch on, but I don't believe he'll be getting 10-12 sacks a season, either. To me, if we're going to pay top dollar for a player (especially at his age), I would like his production value to either increase or, at the very least, stay consistent.

 

Looking at it rationally, it will take him probably a full season to transition fully into the OLB position. Maybe 8 games if we're lucky. His sack numbers will surely have taken a hit during the transitional phase. Then, to add to that, he will playing a position that is put into coverage slightly more than what he has currently been playing at. Peppers is put into coverage more than any defensive end in the NFL, I understand that. But I still believe that the coverage/blitz ratio will be slightly higher than what he's currently sitting at.

 

For the sake of argument, let's say that the ratio stays the same, and he rushes the QB just as often as he had in Carolina. Peppers' biggest talent is his quickness. He's flat out fast, definitely. But the thing that has given him the most success is his quickness off the ball. Peppers isn't one to work off a block, if he gets a hat on him right away he's normally blocked for the duration of that play. There's occasions he throws a power move in there, but that's the exception, not the rule. He excels at that first step off the ball, either beating a tackle around the edge or spinning back inside when he can't. He's got great first step instinct, and that is something that is prized in linebackers. But if you take him off the ball, that's going to take away what is possibly his greatest asset. Now he's just as fast as any other OLB in the 3-4. Kam Wimbley is actually faster than Peppers is in the open field.

 

Now we're opening up another can of worms. If the season were to start today, I would assume that Matt Roth would be starting opposite Wimbley in the 3-4. If we throw Peppers at OLB (say opposite Wimbley), we have two 4.6 OLB's, one unproven and one with some stats to his name. In 2009, Matt Roth earned $700,000 for the year, with a $1 million dollar cap hit. Julius Peppers, on the other hand, earned about $16.5 million last season with a cap hit of over $19 million (per sportscity.com). Even if the cap does get abolished for good, that's still a hefty difference in year-to-year salaries. Peppers earns roughly 24 times as much as Roth in a year. To justify bringing in Peppers, then, wouldn't he have to be 24 times as effective as Roth? Through six games last season, Matt Roth nabbed 4 sacks and 28 combined tackles. Assuming that Roth finishes the season with those exact stats (which is highly unlikely), Peppers would, based on the comparison of salaries, have to finish the season with 96 sacks and 672 combined tackles. That is a far cry from his 10.5 sacks and 42 combined tackles in 2009.

 

Now, I know that is not how it's looked at by any means. I just thought that would be an interesting way of looking at it. If we do end up nabbing Peppers, that's fine. There's plenty of worse moves we could make. I'm just not advocating us dropping top dollar on him today.

 

 

Sorry, I warned you it was long.

 

[Riffer X]

I do like to think I know a decent bit about the game, but I honestly don't believe he has "it" anymore than than most of the other backs in the league. He's got something, you're right. He's quite explosive, and has pretty decent vision. But he doesn't wow me as much as he obviously does you.

 

I'm trying to be completely objective, and if I saw him on any other team, I honestly don't believe he would awe me as much.

 

I could be biased, though. I do tend to like one-cut, "mid-power" type backs that have good speed (a la James Davis) as opposed to pure speed runners that can get the outside (more up Harrison's alley, to me). I haven't seen Harrison lay a big hit on a would-be tackler yet, and that's what really bothers me. I understand the necessity for speed in this game, but you can't outrun absolutely everyone. Every once in a while, I'd like to see him lower his head and absolutely punish someone for attempting an arm tackle on him. He has yet to prove that to me. That's not his game per se, and I get that, but that's what it's going to take for me. He's had a couple good moves, a nice spin or two, but to me that's all flash and no substance. I think the greatest asset an RB can have is the ability to lay a hit on a roving LB, which creates doubt in the minds of the defense. Jamal had that, but sadly lost the speed somewhere around his 80th birthday. The jury is out on Harrison, and I admit I was too harsh. But I'd rather have low expectations and get proved wrong than have high expectations and be disappointed.

 

And I do agree on Vickers, he seems to be the real deal. I've been singing his praises since he came on board with us. He's definitely one of, if not the, best FB in the game.

 

Plus, I'm a little weary in putting a lot of faith behind the last three games just because of the situation. We faced bad teams who had no shot at the playoffs, had no help offensively, and two of which had coaches in precarious positions.

 

Good post but I don't understand why people think Harrison is such a finesse runner, I really don't. He gets low and moves the pile. Short backs like him have a history of getting lower leverage and sneaking through the slight holes that are there. I thought he was a way better short yardage back than Lewis was this year cuz he cuts to the chase. Not all his runs were cutbacks to the outside he hit the seams before they closed and got through them breaking tackles. He moved piles at times and got 4 yards out of two and that's what good backs do. Go back and watch some film of him, not just the big runs but the 3 or 4 yarders with the box stacked. Lewis doesn't get to the line of scrimmage.

 

He may not be James Brooks putting a hat on backers but he's no pussy either. You don't run for 2 grand in a season in a major conference without being a bit of a tough ass, and I don't know if I want my back taking on direct hits when he is going to be one of the guys we base our offense around for years to come. That's smart football there. Yeah, I loved watching Kevin Mack annihilate guys but Harrison is not meant to be a power back, but he's not finesse either.

 

I think Harrison is a stud, I really do. I would like to see him get more Westbrookish in the passing game though, but at least he has gotten much better at blitz pickups. He would be a great Marshall Faulk type relief valve if used correctly. His hands aren't the best but he's another one that's been affected by these idiots at QB who can't complete a screen pass along with Vickers.

 

I'm glass 3/4 full with him and you're glass half empty, but I don't think we're that far off. Hell, I loved Chris Barclay for God's sake. I still thought he would have been nice if not for injuries.

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Good post but I don't understand why people think Harrison is such a finesse runner, I really don't. He gets low and moves the pile. Short backs like him have a history of getting lower leverage and sneaking through the slight holes that are there. I thought he was a way better short yardage back than Lewis was this year cuz he cuts to the chase. Not all his runs were cutbacks to the outside he hit the seams before they closed and got through them breaking tackles. He moved piles at times and got 4 yards out of two and that's what good backs do. Go back and watch some film of him, not just the big runs but the 3 or 4 yarders with the box stacked. Lewis doesn't get to the line of scrimmage.

 

He may not be James Brooks putting a hat on backers but he's no pussy either. You don't run for 2 grand in a season in a major conference without being a bit of a tough ass, and I don't know if I want my back taking on direct hits when he is going to be one of the guys we base our offense around for years to come. That's smart football there. Yeah, I loved watching Kevin Mack annihilate guys but Harrison is not meant to be a power back, but he's not finesse either.

 

I think Harrison is a stud, I really do. I would like to see him get more Westbrookish in the passing game though, but at least he has gotten much better at blitz pickups. He would be a great Marshall Faulk type relief valve if used correctly. His hands aren't the best but he's another one that's been affected by these idiots at QB who can't complete a screen pass along with Vickers.

 

I'm glass 3/4 full with him and you're glass half empty, but I don't think we're that far off. Hell, I loved Chris Barclay for God's sake. I still thought he would have been nice if not for injuries.

 

Looking back over my post, I can see where I came across as being very anti-Harrison, and I'm not. I also don't consider him to be a straight "finesse" runner, either. When I said I would like him to lay a hit on a tackler, I meant an open-field shot. Something for the highlight reels. Harrison does attack the line very well, and he's good at moving the pile. The thing I would like to see, just once or twice, is one teeth-rattling hit on an LB. I don't want him jonesing for big hits by any means. But I think it goes a long way for a team (and player)'s confidence when a runningback lays some lumber on a linebacker. That's when a RB gets it into his head that he can't be stopped, and that's when he gets into the psyche of the defense. In a way, it's like a rite of passage. To me, that's when an NFL RB becomes a man. To be crude, it's like his balls dropping. That's when he starts to put on the big boy boots, and walks around with some swagger. I'm completely ready for a Cleveland runningback with swagger. We haven't had one since JB. Once he gets that hit out of the way, stay away from LB's until your confidence starts to wane again. Then remind everybody who you are.

 

That's just the attitude I believe any footballer should have, especially an RB.

 

 

 

The good news is that, if Harrison fails, I believe James Davis is more than capable of handling the load. So much so that I dropped $150 on a J.D. Authentic Jersey for myself.

[Zombo]

Prepare yourself, this is a doozy.

 

....

 

Sorry, I warned you it was long.

 

Those are my standard lines.

 

Zombo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Those are my standard lines.

 

Zombo

 

I wish I could "thank" this more than once.

[The Gipper]

Prepare yourself, this is a doozy.

 

It's not beyond the realm of possibility, sure. But I don't think theres a high statistical chance in its favor. Sure, I guess one could argue that each team has the exact same chances in the offseason at winning the upcoming Super Bowl, but we all know that's not how it works. The odds are stacked in our favor, we're a young team with young talent, a quarterback "controversy", a new front office, and a coaching staff in it's second year. We'd have to overcome a lot to make it into the postseason.

 

The Saints were a different story. They were a team right on the cusp of being good, but had experienced some bad breaks. Their offense and defense was pretty solid last season, they didn't have to make too many offseason moves (especially at the skill positions). Their coaching staff remained virtually unchanged, and they had a strong front office already in place. It's a tale of two cities, really. Not saying it can't happen with us, because it can. But you have to admit, it is highly unlikely.

 

As for the addition of Peppers- generally, I'm against it. I live in South Carolina, and have attened many a Panthers game. My close friend is a gigantic Panthers fan, and Julius Peppers is his number two all-time favorite Panther, behind Chris Weinke. I think Ricky Proehl is also included somewhere in there, actually. That isn't important. What is important, however, is the fact that I have seen Julius Peppers in person at least once a year for his entire career. The guy is a beast, I would have loved to have gotten him....a couple of years ago. He's a freak of nature, and he's easily the best 4-3 defensive end in the league.

 

But, as people have mentioned countless times, he's getting old. I still think he would have a couple solid years of performance in him if he were to stay in the 4-3. Sadly, he wants to transition to OLB in the 3-4. That, I believe, will severly limit his production. I'm not saying he won't catch on, but I don't believe he'll be getting 10-12 sacks a season, either. To me, if we're going to pay top dollar for a player (especially at his age), I would like his production value to either increase or, at the very least, stay consistent.

 

Looking at it rationally, it will take him probably a full season to transition fully into the OLB position. Maybe 8 games if we're lucky. His sack numbers will surely have taken a hit during the transitional phase. Then, to add to that, he will playing a position that is put into coverage slightly more than what he has currently been playing at. Peppers is put into coverage more than any defensive end in the NFL, I understand that. But I still believe that the coverage/blitz ratio will be slightly higher than what he's currently sitting at.

 

For the sake of argument, let's say that the ratio stays the same, and he rushes the QB just as often as he had in Carolina. Peppers' biggest talent is his quickness. He's flat out fast, definitely. But the thing that has given him the most success is his quickness off the ball. Peppers isn't one to work off a block, if he gets a hat on him right away he's normally blocked for the duration of that play. There's occasions he throws a power move in there, but that's the exception, not the rule. He excels at that first step off the ball, either beating a tackle around the edge or spinning back inside when he can't. He's got great first step instinct, and that is something that is prized in linebackers. But if you take him off the ball, that's going to take away what is possibly his greatest asset. Now he's just as fast as any other OLB in the 3-4. Kam Wimbley is actually faster than Peppers is in the open field.

 

Now we're opening up another can of worms. If the season were to start today, I would assume that Matt Roth would be starting opposite Wimbley in the 3-4. If we throw Peppers at OLB (say opposite Wimbley), we have two 4.6 OLB's, one unproven and one with some stats to his name. In 2009, Matt Roth earned $700,000 for the year, with a $1 million dollar cap hit. Julius Peppers, on the other hand, earned about $16.5 million last season with a cap hit of over $19 million (per sportscity.com). Even if the cap does get abolished for good, that's still a hefty difference in year-to-year salaries. Peppers earns roughly 24 times as much as Roth in a year. To justify bringing in Peppers, then, wouldn't he have to be 24 times as effective as Roth? Through six games last season, Matt Roth nabbed 4 sacks and 28 combined tackles. Assuming that Roth finishes the season with those exact stats (which is highly unlikely), Peppers would, based on the comparison of salaries, have to finish the season with 96 sacks and 672 combined tackles. That is a far cry from his 10.5 sacks and 42 combined tackles in 2009.

 

Now, I know that is not how it's looked at by any means. I just thought that would be an interesting way of looking at it. If we do end up nabbing Peppers, that's fine. There's plenty of worse moves we could make. I'm just not advocating us dropping top dollar on him today.

 

 

Sorry, I warned you it was long.

 

 

'sokay, I needed to catch a few ZZZs.

[next2nothing]

Those are my standard lines.

 

Zombo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

'sokay, I needed to catch a few ZZZs.

 

Should have just put on a clip of the Cleveland Browns 2008 offense. Early 2009 would have sufficed, as well.

[jrb12711]

The good news is that, if Harrison fails, I believe James Davis is more than capable of handling the load. So much so that I dropped $150 on a J.D. Authentic Jersey for myself.-Tim

aha! low and behold the real reason you aren't being as optimistic about Harrison as others. You just want your jersey to not be a bust. and to think we thought you were presenting a valid counter argument

hahah

 

seriously though, if peppers does ever come here i'm buying a jersey just to spite all the panthers fans here in Charlotte. I'd say it's about 50/50 between him and smith at the football games. It'd be hilarious to root for him in the bars.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The good news is that, if Harrison fails, I believe James Davis is more than capable of handling the load. So much so that I dropped $150 on a J.D. Authentic Jersey for myself.-Tim

aha! low and behold the real reason you aren't being as optimistic about Harrison as others. You just want your jersey to not be a bust. and to think we thought you were presenting a valid counter argument

hahah

 

seriously though, if peppers does ever come here i'm buying a jersey just to spite all the panthers fans here in Charlotte. I'd say it's about 50/50 between him and smith at the football games. It'd be hilarious to root for him in the bars.

 

Haha. It would just add to the already hefty list of busted players jerseys so far. I'll put it right next to my Quinn, Couch, Edwards, Wimbley, and Sean Jones jerseys.

 

It doesn't matter to me if the players are busts, though. As long as I have a brown jersey to put on on Sundays (or Mondays), I'm content.

 

And you're right, Charlotte goes crazy for both J. Pep and Steve Smith. But you want to strike up some awesome conversation at a game or bar in downtown Charlotte? Wear a Tshimanga Biakabutuka jersey. Everytime I've been with someone who was wearing one, they couldn't make it 5 feet without some crazy drunk fan stopping them and talking our ear off about how Touchdown Tim would have been the greatest runningback in the NFL if it weren't for injuries.