Health Care

[osusev]

steve here is one of kings of capitalism that answers your question

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100301/ap_on_...nVmZmV0dHNheXNo

[heckofajobbrownie]

You are correct. correct

Handouts to deadbeats is a relatively small amount of cash.

 

It's just one of those things that gets people worked up.

You know, Heck, a lot like corporate executive salaries and bonuses, insurance company profits, no bid Haliburton contracts and $300 toilet seats for the miilitary.

 

Rally issues good for a reatction.

WSS

 

But executive pay structure, inefficient health care delivery systems, and Pentagon waste are all real issues. So is wasting money by giving it to people who have no intention of using it to better their situation.

 

But this is some of what we were talking about before - the obsession with the exceptions, not the rule. The focus is off and it leads to bad decisions.

 

You'll notice that almost every swing at welfare is always accompanied by a line like "Now I've got no problem giving working people who need a helping hand some cash in hard times, but..." Well, that's what the majority of that spending is for. It's the minority that abuses it. Plus, we've already got ways to verify that it's not going to deadbeats, and it's not limitless anyway.

 

And yet this is where all the focus lies. This is where they think their money goes.

[Westside Steve]

But executive pay structure, inefficient health care delivery systems, and Pentagon waste are all real issues. So is wasting money by giving it to people who have no intention of using it to better their situation.

 

But this is some of what we were talking about before - the obsession with the exceptions, not the rule. The focus is off and it leads to bad decisions.

 

You'll notice that almost every swing at welfare is always accompanied by a line like "Now I've got no problem giving working people who need a helping hand some cash in hard times, but..." Well, that's what the majority of that spending is for. It's the minority that abuses it. Plus, we've already got ways to verify that it's not going to deadbeats, and it's not limitless anyway.

 

And yet this is where all the focus lies. This is where they think their money goes.

 

 

Well I don't know exactly who thinks that.

 

 

Are they the ones who think that if we eliminate executive salaries and bonuses that you'd get a bypass operation for 80 bucks?

 

WSS

 

[Westside Steve]

steve here is one of kings of capitalism that answers your question

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100301/ap_on_...nVmZmV0dHNheXNo

 

 

Curious Sev, because Buffet has made a lot of money in his life you figure he must be a capatlist idealogue?

Ted Turner George Soros and Yasser Arafat all hade vast fortunes.

 

Of course the economy will recover sooner or later.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Health care in Australia is provided by both private and government institutions. The Minister for Health and Ageing, currently Nicola Roxon, administers national health policy. Primary health care remains the responsibility of the federal government, elements of which (such as the operation of hospitals) are overseen by individual states.

**********************************************************

So, NO, we don't call this system in Australia "socialism".

 

We call it intelligent hc reform.

 

The curent obaMao bills, some obaMao officials admit, will cause 18 - 20 MILLION Americans who CURRENTLY HAVE

 

health insurance- to lose it. With all the red tape that puts private health care unable to continue to do business,

and the obaMao admin and leftists in Congress (okay, BOTH Dems and a few Reps) wanting total gov control

of banks, schools, auto industry, health care, every single person via the attempt at "cap and slave trade", etc...

 

this health care bill is just a leftist power grab. It doesn't solve the problems, it just creates bigger and more dire problems.

 

AMERICANS do NOT want to get rid of what works, to enact what would "work" on paper (as long as you don't read it),

but cannot possibly be afforded.

 

Some of us TOLD some of you, that it was calculated before the election, that if you took ALL OF THE MONEY of the

major fat cats, it still would not even come close to paying for the leftists gov controlled health care.

 

When the leftists in Congress, and the radical, lying obaMao admin tried the power grabbing, they overreached.

 

All the true need for health care reform went caput. Seriously, it is such a debacle, that even with a total dominance

of votes in the Senate, they had no chance.

 

Even the decent, blue dog Democrats refuse it, even now, regardless that they lost their filibuster proof majority.

 

That should tell you something.

 

True, legit reform does not take power away from the American people and their United States Constitution, nor does it eliminate

private health care corporations.

 

Does Australia have tort reform regs in place? Interstate purchases of insurance to allow for competition? Just wonderin.

[osusev]

Curious Sev, because Buffet has made a lot of money in his life you figure he must be a capatlist idealogue?

Ted Turner George Soros and Yasser Arafat all hade vast fortunes.

 

Of course the economy will recover sooner or later.

 

WSS

 

Seriously? Buffet is well known and referenced in any business admin college for his life and career...... you dont make the time's 100 most influential people in the world easily......

 

His opinions/positions are EXTREMELY well known........

 

It does not take a nuclear physicist to see that our for profit health care system is in dire need of repair and that other models are much more efficient and cost effective not to mention quality overall is better than ours. It also was quite easily apparent in manufacturing how much our healthcare costs put anything we manufacture at a disadvantage internationally........

 

YES warren Buffet is most definitely a free market capitalist proponent.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

You have Soros, Chavez, Fidel, Turner as your heroes then.

 

But Buffet is just a guy who makes money.

 

We don't follow him, or worship him.

 

It's a free country, each to his/her own, says I.

 

Says you, "take a lot from those who have, and give to those who don't

 

so Democrats can win the next pres election by force"...

 

or, perhaps I'm just not reading you right, Sev.... @@

[osusev]

You have Soros, Chavez, Fidel, Turner as your heroes then.

 

But Buffet is just a guy who makes money.

 

We don't follow him, or worship him.

 

It's a free country, each to his/her own, says I.

 

Says you, "take a lot from those who have, and give to those who don't

 

so Democrats can win the next pres election by force"...

 

or, perhaps I'm just not reading you right, Sev.... @@

 

none of those people are my "heroes"...... actually I admire Eisenhower, Sun Tzu, Theodore Roosevelt, Einstein, Copernicus, Franklin.

 

I employ people, I created my own opportunities and work harder than any of my employees or partners. I do believe in self sufficiency, however I happen to have a different Social and Economic Macro perspective.

 

I dont believe in unending welfare, I do believe in the free market with controls like anti trust regulation or SEC oversight etc. You can not let business just operate in a vacuum it does not work because of human nature and consolidation of capital can and does stifle innovation and opportunities IF it is left to its own affairs.

 

Structured support and realistic oversight and controls within industries is health both for industry and consumers. When an industry that represents 15% + of our total economy has anti trust exemptions and can bring to bear so much capital it can and does skew public trading markets like the DOW and literally bleeds in to almost all facets of our daily lives..... well that is a massive problem. Its not rocket science, some of you are so wedded to philosophical positions that you refuse to be reasonable or even use common logic.

 

Like I said I pay a ton in health care for my medium size operations....... My own money funds all of my operations not loans. I am not wealthy but I feed my children based upon free market ideas..

 

Its always odd to me that some of the most rabid followers of ideas dont even actually practice by action what they are even talking about or does it really even affect them in any meaningful way.

 

Warren Buffet is a huge free market proponent..... and some one like him can point to something so obvious now he is just a guy..... funny really.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Sev, you really didn't have to prove that you weren't a Marxist because Cal said you were.

[calfoxwc]

No, sniffly pouty boy, Sev didn't.

 

Neither do we have to prove we don't care about those in need.

 

The question is, Sev, you seem to wanted limited government, and some fixes, like

 

health care reform made, is that true?

 

If soo, I agree with you.

 

Heck is the big sissy that only wants to find fault with others opinions,

 

and personally attack them. Then, when he gets his butt kicked by Steve again,

 

he pulls out the "oh, I am so busy, I can't reply to that baloney now",

 

while not really having any kind of opinions of his own, he just attacks,

 

based on his own changing definitions of words. Honestly, Heck reminds me

 

of the communists in the old based on a true story movie I saw a while ago.

 

He just seems to be another progressive that would be defending the takeover of private ownership.

for the greater good, and rationalize the rendering of our Constitution as meaningless.

 

He just wants to antagonize, and stupidly quibble and try to show everybody up.

 

Sev, you don't do that, and I appreciate it.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I believe Sev's point is simple: Warren Buffett, certainly no enemy of free enterprise, says the Senate bill is an improvement over what we have and he'd vote for it, but it doesn't go far enough.

 

Or as that morning dope on Fox News reported it, "...he simply cannot go along with this particular health care bill."

 

Huh?

 

I think most Democrats, as well as me and Sev, agree with Buffett - it's an improvement that's worth passing, but it doesn't go far enough.

 

But you get what you can get.

[calfoxwc]

Odd how you can single out one guy to prove your point. LOL

 

Doesn't work at all.

 

If Buffet felt the opposite, Heck, he'd be a fool and nothing but a freakin capitalist pig.

 

But since he agrees with you, he's a genius.

 

Kinda odd how that works for you every time...

 

yikes.

[osusev]

Odd how you can single out one guy to prove your point. LOL

 

Doesn't work at all.

 

If Buffet felt the opposite, Heck, he'd be a fool and nothing but a freakin capitalist pig.

 

But since he agrees with you, he's a genius.

 

Kinda odd how that works for you every time...

 

yikes.

Cal Buffet is a genius in wealth management.

 

I don't think our government is run efficiently however for all of the different services and geographic size it services it does as well as can be reasonably expected.

 

Healthcare is TOO big not to have the government involved... Really they are the only ones who can tackle them.

 

This bill is really only a step..... Truthfully to contain costs it needs a whole set of great white sized jaws that it does not have. I totally understand the fine line between intervention and outright control. This bill is NOwhere near the latter mentioned. Right now the fox is in control of the hen house, farm and farmer.....

 

Really all we are doing is attempting to take control over the door to the henhouse not even the hen house or even the farmer..... It's actually kind of sickening.

[Westside Steve]

Cal Buffet is a genius in wealth management.

 

I don't think our government is run efficiently however for all of the different services and geographic size it services it does as well as can be reasonably expected.

 

Healthcare is TOO big not to have the government involved... Really they are the only ones who can tackle them.

 

This bill is really only a step..... Truthfully to contain costs it needs a whole set of great white sized jaws that it does not have. I totally understand the fine line between intervention and outright control. This bill is NOwhere near the latter mentioned. Right now the fox is in control of the hen house, farm and farmer.....

 

Really all we are doing is attempting to take control over the door to the henhouse not even the hen house or even the farmer..... It's actually kind of sickening.

 

 

The absence of a public option along with the public mandate along with the no real statewide competeition along with the huge donations to Dems would make you think that the party without serious opposition is playing the fox role here.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

It has to break anyone's heart, to see where the high cost of health care, and the problems with some people to

be able to afford it, or even be allowed to procure it. And I do believe that there must be some reform to

fill the void where there aren't reasonable costs, affordability, and opportunity.

 

The gov should offer that opportunity, and work to create solutions that would help lower costs and really

raise healthy competition.

 

But, obaMao has surrounded himself with revolutionary personalities - crackpots -, and he has said some

crazy unAmerican stuff, like a "civilian security force"...

 

that doesn't encourage confidence in even blue dog Democrats. And, the gigantic splurg of nonsense perks

in the phoney stimulus bills...

 

and the HUGE health care bills Dems are offering up, and the resistance to any bipartisan help from the Republican side...

those bills aren't reform. They are gigantic attempts to use health care reform as an excuse for growing gov

 

so huge it controls every freakin thing.

There was absolutely no reason on this earth for some of the provisions in the health care bill versions to have

EVER been in there.

 

Given all this - it's a sad debacle when hc reform is a legit cause.

 

Face it - a super majority in both houses of Congress refused to pass these hc bills put forth by Democrats,

for GOOD REASON.

 

They need to throw it out, and make a LEGIT health care reform bill that only FIXES the problems, not takes over

and left-handedly eliminates private enterprise in the health care insurance arena, etc.