Team Holmgren

[Earl34]

I was home sick today for the first time in five years. I laid there hoping that the Good Lord would just take me and I found a really nice distraction from my physical woes: The Mike Holmgren/Eric Mangini press conference. It took my mind off of things albeit for a little while I have to say again: Mike Holmgren is one smooth dude.

 

I've never really understood what makes one a "football czar" but I'm starting to understand why Holmgren was the right man for this job. I think part of the reason he's convincing is that he has enough experience and respect so that when he says something, that's it. The buck stops there. He handles the media in a way that you wished would have been done long before now. He's laid back but authoritative. He seems to do an excellent job of putting things into perspective (such as why we didn't get first rounders for former first rounders). The fact is that Eric Mangini could have made any of the statements that Holmgren did but it wouldn't be good enough.

 

I don't know that a lot of people have thought about Tom Heckert very much. Holmgren is the face of the franchise but I think that we need to appreciate Tom Heckert and who he is. The Eagles have long been one team whose model of management I've liked. They generally don't overpay. They'll do what they need to do to improve the team. They won't be held hostage by players. They understand value. It's a management style that assumes a larger plan and is disciplined. At the end of the day, it's a respectable approach. I think that many people will be able to accept whatever moves are made as long as we feel that due diligence was done and we pursued whatever avenues were needed. It's pragmatic. It's unemotional and that's a good thing. We aren't going to be bogged down by "what ifs" and "what fors". We won't be paralyzed when we need to cut bait with a player who isn't performing.

 

I think that the biggest difference I see though is with the coach (Mangini). He's more laid back (it seems). The personnel guys answer personnel questions. He seems like he can focus on coach stuff rather than answering questions about free agents or the draft or some front office issue because he's the only one at the podium. I am curious to see what he'll do on the field in 2010. I will say that I'd hoped for better things in 2009 as we all did. Having watched him at the Jets with my brother who is a season ticket holder, I was very hopeful. When I step back though, I see a common thread. This is a coach who's had some big underdog wins in his career. If you look at the years that he's had an uninjured legitimate QB starter (Pennington, Favre before the bicep) his record is one of playoff contention. While he may have had his down performances, he's also shown flashes that he can outcoach the best of them (he's beaten Belichick, Fisher and Cowher). The Pittsburgh win last year was an excellent example. He beat the defending champs in bad conditions with a team whose lineup had significant plugins off of the practice squad. The team played for him. Josh Cribbs played for him. They found a way. I, for one, feel good about what he could do with more talent. I personally think that over the years Bill Belichick was more afraid of him than any other assistant he lost and I think that's a very real and very encouraging sign.

 

The depth on this team will be vastly improved in year two and you'll see players 1-53 consist of a better level of NFL talent. It will be professional in its approach and in the expectations and accountability. We have the building on the same page. We have direction.

[rich4eagle]

dO not forget Mangini and Heckert.....................thanks for the KUDOS

[peterbell]

Excellent post Earl34. Every Brown fan should be very excited about this draft (12 picks) and team Holgren

[Earl34]

Excellent post Earl34. Every Brown fan should be very excited about this draft (12 picks) and team Holgren

 

Thanks. 12 picks is HUGE. Say we hit on half of them, that's six guys who can play. If those guys turn out to be starters in 2-3 years, then you replaced a little more than 25% of your starters. It's a draft like this that can catapault a franchise into serious contention.

[sisky fringo]

my fear is that because they have such a high number of picks (12) they get a bit hasty and casual with them. i hope they treat each one of those pick not like they have 12, but like they only have 3 or 4 and get the most out of every single one.

[Earl34]

Sisky,

 

Being that it's their first draft here in Cleveland, I think there is a little bit more pressure to succeed. Unfortunately, we are in a competitive and unforgiving division. I like the "draft picks are to be treated like gold" philosophy and I'm fairly optimistic that Heckert sees it that way too. I've always heard that the draft is his forte. Here's hoping he shows it.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

I was home sick today for the first time in five years. I laid there hoping that the Good Lord would just take me and I found a really nice distraction from my physical woes: The Mike Holmgren/Eric Mangini press conference. It took my mind off of things albeit for a little while I have to say again: Mike Holmgren is one smooth dude.

 

I've never really understood what makes one a "football czar" but I'm starting to understand why Holmgren was the right man for this job. I think part of the reason he's convincing is that he has enough experience and respect so that when he says something, that's it. The buck stops there. He handles the media in a way that you wished would have been done long before now. He's laid back but authoritative. He seems to do an excellent job of putting things into perspective (such as why we didn't get first rounders for former first rounders). The fact is that Eric Mangini could have made any of the statements that Holmgren did but it wouldn't be good enough.

 

I don't know that a lot of people have thought about Tom Heckert very much. Holmgren is the face of the franchise but I think that we need to appreciate Tom Heckert and who he is. The Eagles have long been one team whose model of management I've liked. They generally don't overpay. They'll do what they need to do to improve the team. They won't be held hostage by players. They understand value. It's a management style that assumes a larger plan and is disciplined. At the end of the day, it's a respectable approach. I think that many people will be able to accept whatever moves are made as long as we feel that due diligence was done and we pursued whatever avenues were needed. It's pragmatic. It's unemotional and that's a good thing. We aren't going to be bogged down by "what ifs" and "what fors". We won't be paralyzed when we need to cut bait with a player who isn't performing.

 

I think that the biggest difference I see though is with the coach (Mangini). He's more laid back (it seems). The personnel guys answer personnel questions. He seems like he can focus on coach stuff rather than answering questions about free agents or the draft or some front office issue because he's the only one at the podium. I am curious to see what he'll do on the field in 2010. I will say that I'd hoped for better things in 2009 as we all did. Having watched him at the Jets with my brother who is a season ticket holder, I was very hopeful. When I step back though, I see a common thread. This is a coach who's had some big underdog wins in his career. If you look at the years that he's had an uninjured legitimate QB starter (Pennington, Favre before the bicep) his record is one of playoff contention. While he may have had his down performances, he's also shown flashes that he can outcoach the best of them (he's beaten Belichick, Fisher and Cowher). The Pittsburgh win last year was an excellent example. He beat the defending champs in bad conditions with a team whose lineup had significant plugins off of the practice squad. The team played for him. Josh Cribbs played for him. They found a way. I, for one, feel good about what he could do with more talent. I personally think that over the years Bill Belichick was more afraid of him than any other assistant he lost and I think that's a very real and very encouraging sign.

 

The depth on this team will be vastly improved in year two and you'll see players 1-53 consist of a better level of NFL talent. It will be professional in its approach and in the expectations and accountability. We have the building on the same page. We have direction.

 

While I don't necessarily agree with the Quinn trade, everything else Holmgren has brought to the table has been extremely encouraging and you make some great points in your post, Earl.

 

First, Heckert's face won't be seen as much as Holmgren's. I think that's great and that's one of the mistakes about Savage's era. He couldn't be the GM/scout AND the voice of the team. He was never comfortable in both roles and probably was a detriment to the scout side of his job.

 

You make an excellent point about Holmgren's control over the media. The thing is, he had that when he was hired. To paraphrase Reggie Jackson, Holmgren didn't come to Cleveland to be a star, he brought his star with him. It's almost comical when I think that Mangini had to answer the same question twice and in some occasions three times before the media realized he wasn't going to answer it any differently from the first time. Now when Holmgren gets a question, he answers it and that's that with Grossi, Mary Kay, and the rest of the propaganda army.

 

I really like the Wimbley trade because that 3rd rounder gives us a lot of flexibility to package something to move back up into round 2 for an extra pick or just simply grab a good player in the top 75 of the draft. Wimbley was an athlete, not a football player. People will say he improved under Ryan, which is true, but we had guys off the street like Benard and Schaefring contributing as well.

 

Having Mangini's job description narrowed down to coaching is an unbelievable asset to this franchise and I don't think it is getting played up enough. It's only going to make his gameday preparation that much better, especially when you consider he doesn't have to waste his time this year weeding out the Shaun Smiths on the roster.

 

Still, despite all the sunshine and rainbows of the brief Holmgren era to this point, it's all going to come down to those three days in April, guys. That, in the end, will set the tone for the next five years or so for this franchise. Lord knows we're due for a bit of good luck as far as that's concerned.

[Gips]

With the penny on the dollar firesale trades this regime has orchestrated just to clean things up in a hurry i am slightly skeptical that MH and crew are going to fare much better in the draft...i suspect hecktard will want to bundle all 12 picks for a 3rd rounder at this point...just to speed up the process...j/k of course...he will want to bundle 11 of them for a low first...hehehehe ;)

[sisky fringo]

Sisky,

 

Being that it's their first draft here in Cleveland, I think there is a little bit more pressure to succeed. Unfortunately, we are in a competitive and unforgiving division. I like the "draft picks are to be treated like gold" philosophy and I'm fairly optimistic that Heckert sees it that way too. I've always heard that the draft is his forte. Here's hoping he shows it.

put me in the Heckert fan club. i liked that you brought attention to him in your OP and agree.

 

as made clear in the press conference he's behind these moves and has been a furious tornado of activity ever since he went on the job...so much so in fact i wish Dan in Florida were still here so he could update my Quinn sheep avatar to a Heckert Tazmanian devil. but i think i'll wait until after the draft before i hunt him down and pick out a big fat Heckert head i like.

[Earl34]

While I don't necessarily agree with the Quinn trade, everything else Holmgren has brought to the table has been extremely encouraging and you make some great points in your post, Earl.

 

First, Heckert's face won't be seen as much as Holmgren's. I think that's great and that's one of the mistakes about Savage's era. He couldn't be the GM/scout AND the voice of the team. He was never comfortable in both roles and probably was a detriment to the scout side of his job.

 

You make an excellent point about Holmgren's control over the media. The thing is, he had that when he was hired. To paraphrase Reggie Jackson, Holmgren didn't come to Cleveland to be a star, he brought his star with him. It's almost comical when I think that Mangini had to answer the same question twice and in some occasions three times before the media realized he wasn't going to answer it any differently from the first time. Now when Holmgren gets a question, he answers it and that's that with Grossi, Mary Kay, and the rest of the propaganda army.

 

I really like the Wimbley trade because that 3rd rounder gives us a lot of flexibility to package something to move back up into round 2 for an extra pick or just simply grab a good player in the top 75 of the draft. Wimbley was an athlete, not a football player. People will say he improved under Ryan, which is true, but we had guys off the street like Benard and Schaefring contributing as well.

 

Having Mangini's job description narrowed down to coaching is an unbelievable asset to this franchise and I don't think it is getting played up enough. It's only going to make his gameday preparation that much better, especially when you consider he doesn't have to waste his time this year weeding out the Shaun Smiths on the roster.

 

Still, despite all the sunshine and rainbows of the brief Holmgren era to this point, it's all going to come down to those three days in April, guys. That, in the end, will set the tone for the next five years or so for this franchise. Lord knows we're due for a bit of good luck as far as that's concerned.

 

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

[sisky fringo]

While I don't necessarily agree with the Quinn trade, everything else Holmgren has brought to the table has been extremely encouraging and you make some great points in your post, Earl.

 

First, Heckert's face won't be seen as much as Holmgren's. I think that's great and that's one of the mistakes about Savage's era. He couldn't be the GM/scout AND the voice of the team. He was never comfortable in both roles and probably was a detriment to the scout side of his job.

i'm not so sure Heckert will be behind the scenes, NWOB. had he not been out of town he would have most likely attended the presser and fielded questions as well. in fact, i think he could have brought even more to the table on several of the topics asked about.

[mopaji]

It's good to see people giving credit to Heckert and Mangini finally. Although Holmgren is the face of the franchise, Mangini and Heckert have just as much to do with these decisions as the prez does. I was afraid that good decisions would be made and Mangini wouldn't get any credit for it but now I don't think he cares and so neither do I! We knew a roster purge was coming this year but I really didn't think I would as happy as I am with the moves that have been made. Having a football mind like Holmgren at the top instead of a business man there has made all of the difference in the world.

 

GO TEAM HOLMGREN!!

 

 

 

[Earl34]

It's good to see people giving credit to Heckert and Mangini finally. Although Holmgren is the face of the franchise, Mangini and Heckert have just as much to do with these decisions as the prez does. I was afraid that good decisions would be made and Mangini wouldn't get any credit for it but now I don't think he cares and so neither do I! We knew a roster purge was coming this year but I really didn't think I would as happy as I am with the moves that have been made. Having a football mind like Holmgren at the top instead of a business man there has made all of the difference in the world.

 

GO TEAM HOLMGREN!!

 

They cut half of the roster last year and it would be interesting to see how many of the players Mangini inherited will still be on the roster on opening day of this year. The talent level was abysmal as evidenced by the fact that only two players that he cut last year made it onto NFL teams (as practice squad players). It feels like there will be real competition for roster spots and that's always a good thing.

 

[sisky fringo]

fwiw here's two of my favorite former Browns who are still doing well:

 

Sean Jones to compete for starting SS position in Tampa. although a detriment a few times a year in coverage the dude was awesome up in the box. he defended more goal line stands for us than anyone in the new era.

 

Patriots re-sign Leigh Bodden.

Last season, he started in 14 of the 15 contests he played and tied for the team lead with five interceptions and led the team with 17 passes defensed. Bodden was named AFC Defensive Player of the Week (Week 11) for his performance in the Patriots' 31-14 win over the New York Jets (11/22) after tying a team record with three interceptions. He returned the first of his three interceptions in the Jets game 53 yards for a touchdown, the first interception returned for a touchdown of his career. He has played in 90 career games with 67 starts and has recorded 341 tackles (258 solo), 18 interceptions for 192 yards, 75 passes defensed, seven forced fumbles, six fumble recoveries and 30 special teams tackles.

big mistake trading him away imo.

[mopaji]

fwiw here's two of my favorite former Browns who are still doing well:

 

Sean Jones to compete for starting SS position in Tampa. although a detriment a few times a year in coverage the dude was awesome up in the box. he defended more goal line stands for us than anyone in the new era.

 

Patriots re-sign Leigh Bodden. big mistake trading him away imo.

 

 

Yeah, I always liked Sean Jones because he played hard on a really, really bad team and we got Rogers out of the Bodden deal. Letting them go was necessary to move forward. Unfortunately, Savage moved backwards by mistake!

[halfsane]

I liked Bodden while he was here, but he got burned his last season at times where it didn't seem like he was really trying to hard. Now, this could have been broken coverage that not his fault (ie inadequate safety help).

 

Then he got arrested at the airport or something ....

[sisky fringo]

Bodden was injured a lot the year we traded him but in retrospect it was just a bad time cuz he obviously rebounded from it.

Letting them go was necessary to move forward.

i don't think either was necessary mopaji.

i doubt Bodden was a crucial component in the Rogers trade...i just think Leigh and Phil Savage had words and he got shipped. he made that boneheaded play where he kicked the ball and cost us huge and was in the doghouse ever since. he was our best corner and would solidify the position if he were here now.

 

Sean Jones was allowed to walk because Mangini didn't see much difference between him and Elam physically, and was more familiar with Elam. i think it came down to aptitude personally. after watching Abe for a year i can see a huge difference physically and Elam sucks in run support compared to Jones.

[peterbell]

They cut half of the roster last year and it would be interesting to see how many of the players Mangini inherited will still be on the roster on opening day of this year. The talent level was abysmal as evidenced by the fact that only two players that he cut last year made it onto NFL teams (as practice squad players). It feels like there will be real competition for roster spots and that's always a good thing.

 

Mangini's work last year on the roster is huge going into this draft. he managed to cut away 3/4 th's of the locker room "cancer". The team has excellent depth, character and 12 PICKS (11 under EM) I'm sure Hec and Holm appreciate Eric's work with this and the fact they have a lot of $$ under the cap to work with..that's all Mangini

[mopaji]

Bodden was injured a lot the year we traded him but in retrospect it was just a bad time cuz he obviously rebounded from it.

 

i don't think either was necessary mopaji.

i doubt Bodden was a crucial component in the Rogers trade...i just think Leigh and Phil Savage had words and he got shipped. he made that boneheaded play where he kicked the ball and cost us huge and was in the doghouse ever since. he was our best corner and would solidify the position if he were here now.

 

Sean Jones was allowed to walk because Mangini didn't see much difference between him and Elam physically, and was more familiar with Elam. i think it came down to aptitude personally. after watching Abe for a year i can see a huge difference physically and Elam sucks in run support compared to Jones.

 

 

I guess I actually agree with you more than I thought. I liked Bodden but at the time we had what we thought were two solid CBs in Wright and McDonald so it didn't bother me at the time. I would like to have him now though.

 

And Elam probably will be an upgrade over Jones in the near future but I just think they were trying to get the roster purged; and those two were casualties of that. I'm not gonna be mad at Mangini for letting Jones walk since he had a replacement with less "baggage" by baggage I mean, he wasn't from a losing team and he knew Mangini's system. But I think I would have prefered Savage leaving over Bodden in hind-site!

[Erie Dawg]

Mangini's work last year on the roster is huge going into this draft. he managed to cut away 3/4 th's of the locker room "cancer". The team has excellent depth, character and 12 PICKS (11 under EM) I'm sure Hec and Holm appreciate Eric's work with this and the fact they have a lot of $$ under the cap to work with..that's all Mangini

I agree, Mangini new it was going to take more than a couple picks to fix things and to stock pile a couple more was a good move.

I'm just not sold on the order some of these pics were made. Like Veikune, he was projected a 5-6th round pick and we took him in the second?

I think Robiskie and Massaquoi are a work in progress, but I feel pretty good going into this years draft with the amount of picks and Tom Heckert as the GM.