The Savage Truth

[Earl34]

They were high-fiving him for picking up Alex Hall (he's a consultant for the Eagles now).

 

All I could think of listening to this guy is that if it weren't for Matt Millen having a job in Detroit,...he would have been Matt Millen himself. How many players who can't play did this guy draft?

[cdl15]

They were high-fiving him for picking up Alex Hall (he's a consultant for the Eagles now).

 

All I could think of listening to this guy is that if it weren't for Matt Millen having a job in Detroit,...he would have been Matt Millen himself. How many players who can't play did this guy draft?

yawn yea you know he brought in what 5, 6 probowlers in three years. yea he alot like millen

 

[jnuh]

yawn yea you know he brought in what 5, 6 probowlers in three years. yea he alot like millen

He also put together by far there most exciting team since coming back into the league.

 

The rookies he signed/drafted turned out descent 4 pro bowlers in that group (Braylon, Cribbs, JT and DA) he also drafted Pool, Kam, DQ, Alex Hall, Eric Wright, Vickers, Harrison, and Rubin. By my count that is 12 solid pro's in 4 drafts.

 

He also orchastrated the trade to get Shaun Rogers ... So why the beef with savage?

[cambridgeho]

Im living here in Alabama and its so weird listening to him on the Tide Radio. He did things alittle flashy, but he wanted to win, just like we did, but you cant help that certain people got staff infections and wrecked bikes. The good thing is we are starting over again with a pretty experienced FO. God I cant wait for the draft!!!

[cdl15]

He also put together by far there most exciting team since coming back into the league.

 

The rookies he signed/drafted turned out descent 4 pro bowlers in that group (Braylon, Cribbs, JT and DA) he also drafted Pool, Kam, DQ, Alex Hall, Eric Wright, Vickers, Harrison, and Rubin. By my count that is 12 solid pro's in 4 drafts.

 

He also orchastrated the trade to get Shaun Rogers ... So why the beef with savage?

cause he told some idiot browns fan to go suck it... rightfully so too...

 

the only beef i had with savage is that he should of hired someone to negot. player contracts cause he just signed them as quick as possibble so that the talent would be happy. not a bad idea except the browns was a team you couldn't do that with.

[choco]

You cited Alex hall as a success...should we discuss all the busts he took while simultaneously passing on players that actually contribute?

 

I read soups email to savage, guess he doesn't like people questioning his decisions...

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut...

[jnuh]

You cited Alex hall as a success...should we discuss all the busts he took while simultaneously passing on players that actually contribute?

 

I read soups email to savage, guess he doesn't like people questioning his decisions...

 

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut...

Hall was what a sixth or seventh rd pick who is a border line NFL starter. What more do you want for a late pick? A blind squirrel may find a nut but not 12. I'm not saying savage is a great gm defintly average and far superior to Matt millen

[ClevelandRocks]

Traded up for beau bell. Argument over

[snakes11]

Is this a joke?

 

I'm sorry but did you just call Alex Hall a "borderline starter"?!

 

He had 10 tackles last season in 14 games...the guy isn't even an above average special teams player

 

Savage's apparent obsession with Hall only further proves how inept he is at evaluating talent

 

 

Brodney Pool was never above average...he had like 1 memorable play in his entire Browns career

 

Derek Anderson is one of the worst QB's in the NFL....that pro bowl year was a complete farce

 

Braylon Edwards made the Pro Bowl in 2007....again, complete farce

 

 

We hate on Phil Savage because he deserves it

[jnuh]

Is this a joke?

 

I'm sorry but did you just call Alex Hall a "borderline starter"?!

 

He had 10 tackles last season in 14 games...the guy isn't even an above average special teams player

 

Savage's apparent obsession with Hall only further proves how inept he is at evaluating talent

 

 

Brodney Pool was never above average...he had like 1 memorable play in his entire Browns career

 

Derek Anderson is one of the worst QB's in the NFL....that pro bowl year was a complete farce

 

Braylon Edwards made the Pro Bowl in 2007....again, complete farce

 

 

We hate on Phil Savage because he deserves it

 

I may be off on Hall I will admit that, but Philly obviously see's something in him.

 

I never said Pool was above average I said he was a solid pro which he is.

 

DA is still young and still has potential despite doing nothing on a team with absolutely no weapons and no right side of an o-line. When he was equipped with a line and weapons and people not breathing down his neck and just letting him play he played. And I am not a DA homer. I am just saying.

 

And as much as I hate to say it Braylon is an above average WR.

 

People loved Savage when he was here and thought he as the savior just like people do with Heckert/Holmgren now. I think its funny that once the guy is gone he is scum of the earth. Truth is he wasn't the best GM an by far wasn't the worst. Call it how it is thats all I am saying. I cited good moves. He also had bad ones (like trading up for Bell) to say he is as bad a GM as Matt Millin is a joke.

 

I think the biggest mistake that Savage made was letting Romeo coach his team. Romeo was awful.

 

[next2nothing]

I think the biggest mistake that Savage made was letting Romeo coach his team. Romeo was awful.

Crennel isn't a bad coach. He's just not the type of guy you want as head coach.

[cdl15]

Crennel isn't a bad coach. He's just not the type of guy you want as head coach.

do you think keeping romeo and savage one more year would of set this team back to the point of no return for the upcoming entrance of mike holmgen.

I bet you there would of been alot more weapons than there is now.

 

Back to the point... everyone loved savage. When we drafted Joe Thomas everyone was relieved and when we moved up to take quinnn i swear i could hear the whole city of cleveland blow a load. Yea i know what it sounds like cause i blew mine too. Its funny cause the vast majority of people who rode the quinn dick in the end of the savage/crennel era should of been ticked cause that my friends was the beginning of the end for quinn. why would you waant the regime that put all their stock into quinn to get out of town. and i know the majority of quinn fans wanted him to be the guy without crennel and savage their. HAHA

Thats all we been doing since we've been back, expecting a new face in town to win with the other guys leftovers. I was a big quinn fan till the day we fired both crennel and savage. put all our marbles into mangini, and then a year later hire Holmgren to fix everything from the top down. Putting him in a bad spot with mangini. How do you fire a coach that ended a year on a 4 game winning streak (which did save his job). Well you can't unless you want to lose a little bit of the credibility that gave you the job in the first place. Mark my words unless mangini becomes a 110% holmgren guy he will be gone in a year or two.

Building the team the way he wants it not the way mangini wants it makes it easier to fire or not offer a contract th EM in the future. Im gonna call it now John Gruden will be the coach of the Cleveland Browns by 2013.

[ATENEARS]

do you think keeping romeo and savage one more year would of set this team back to the point of no return for the upcoming entrance of mike holmgen.

I bet you there would of been alot more weapons than there is now.

 

We would have been in absolute cap hell, with about four draft picks to use and two-seasons of dumping over-hyped stiffs ahead of us.

 

Holmgren probably wouldn't have even taken the job.

 

I kind of liked some of the things Savage did too, because it wasn't my money he was guaranteeing away. However, if you can't see the great things that Mangini has done to rid this team of inflated contracts and over-hyped-oft-injured players, there isn't much more we can discuss here.

 

 

[roach]

They were high-fiving him for picking up Alex Hall (he's a consultant for the Eagles now).

 

All I could think of listening to this guy is that if it weren't for Matt Millen having a job in Detroit,...he would have been Matt Millen himself. How many players who can't play did this guy draft?

 

Who is Alex Hall? Is he that guy that had 10 or 12 tackles for the Browns last year?

[mopaji]

Crennel isn't a bad coach. He's just not the type of guy you want as head coach.

 

 

Not to mention Romeo wanted to build a team a lot like Mangini is now but Savage wanted big, fast guys in skill positions regardless of their ability. It was a match made in complete hell and I will admit, I thought the Thomas/Quinn move was excellent at the time mostly because we got Thomas and Quinn should have been better than he is. But I didn't realize then just how bad he f'ed up this team's salary cap and how he mortgaged the future in order to move up with no real plan as to how to reclaim picks in the future. Mangini must have just shook his head when he saw the lack of skill and the contracts this team had when he arrived. I compare it to Barak and McCain running for president. Why would anybody want that job in those conditions? Mangini took it, and he busted his ass to correct it as fast as possible. Now Holmie is involved in a team that is much better off because of Mangini (who is not even a GM) and we have a legit franchise and future in this town again.

 

The 2007 season as exciting as it was, was nothing but a paper tiger of a football team. I can't remember a time when a team got by within an inch of their life so many times. Ball bouncing the right way etc. I loved it, but by no means saw a good roster or a foundation in place, especially on defense. Phil wanted flash and Romeo wanted IQ and character. I for one will side with the coach over the GM everytime. Phil just doesn't get it. He's a douche.

 

Good luck Philly. You have already made two questionable moves since you got that tool. McNabb could have gotten you much more in return and Hall is a 3rd and long pass rusher worth about the league minimum in salary and you lost Brown in the process. Then you threw in Gocong who Mangini has been eyeing since he entered the draft and who may very well be a 100+ tackle LB each year in a 3-4. Savage is a salesman and he gets people to listen, but he really has no clue how to build a football team. He gained all of his credibility with the Ravens and just how much did he deserve? I mean, they seem to be drafting and signing pretty well without him.

[choco]

whoa...he had 3 sacks too....

 

then theres: beau bell.....cut, martin rucker....cut, paul hubbard....cut....

 

we could do this all day.

 

 

 

[mopaji]

Who is Alex Hall? Is he that guy that had 10 or 12 tackles for the Browns last year?

 

 

He's that undersized OLB who gets off the ball really quickly and puts his hands up. You see him typically in 3rd and long as a quick pass rusher. But you will also never see him shed a block or actually get a sack. Savage is enamoured with his quickness I guess but he really is a full-time bench player. Maybe in Philly's system he can get 3 or 4 sacks a year but for us, he was useless. And anybody who is high-fiving the acquisition of Alex Hall either won a bet, or has no clue. Judging by the return on McNabb and the giving away of Gocong and Brown, I would say it's the latter.

[Zombo]

And as much as I hate to say it Braylon is an above average WR.

 

Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.

 

You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)

 

Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.

 

What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?

 

I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?

 

Zombo

[mopaji]

Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.

 

You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)

 

Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.

 

What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?

 

I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?

 

Zombo

 

 

Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.

 

That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.

[ATENEARS]

Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous ...

 

LOL, awesome.

[Zombo]

Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.

 

That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.

 

He took Frye in the third round, actually.

 

Zombo

--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?

 

 

[jnuh]

Above average? Above average???? He was drafted THIRD OVERALL, who cares if he was above average. That is a "Franchise Player" pick ... he is no franchise player.

 

You cannot continually drop the ball when you draft high in the first round. (and I'm talking about Savage, not Braylon)

 

Savage was one for four in the first round: Edwards is in no way or shape worth a #3 overall, Wimbley was drafted #13 overall and now he's worth, what? a fourth rounder? And he threw a first rounder AND a second rounder at Dallas to snare Brady Freaking Quinn who was dropping like a rock.

 

What was your argument again ... Alex Hall and Brodney Pool?

 

I must have missed the announcement ... is it IDIOT week around here?

 

Zombo

 

My argument wasn't that Savage was the man or the best GM in football. My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen, which he is. And I backed that up by citing rookies he brought into the league and became servicible NFLers. I never said that Braylon was a cornerstone of a franchise but he is an above average WR and a much better WR then anyone on our roster now and better then any other WR that has been on the Browns since the return. Basically what I am saying is BRaylon wasn't a complete miss like ALOT of our previous first rounders before him. He did become a good pro unlike all our first rounders from 1999 - 2003

 

And Alex Hall and Pool were a very small part of my argument. But since you want to talk about them ... Pool when healthy had some good games, and is going to probably start on a good Jets team. Alex Hall and some BS picks just landed us a pro bowl corner with a couple years left in his tank so the Eagles, another very good team, must see something in him. I never once said any of these guys were pro bowlers (except the 4 that actually were) but they are solid NFL role players. And teams need role players as well.

 

And out of his 4 first rounders Quinn was the only one who was awful. After Wimbleys rookie year Browns fans loved Wimbley and Savage for drafting him. Granted he never built off his rookie year, but that could have been a product of poor coaching.

 

JT is obviously a stud and Braylon is a above average WR. Granted I understand your argument for Braylon not panning but to be a superstar, but look at our drafts pre savage ... none of our first rounders were anything but busts. So I would take a guy who can play above average at his position, and make a pro bowl here and there rather then a Tim Couch, Gerrad Warren, C. Brown, or Willie Green any day.

 

My whole argument was more or less why do people hate Savage so much. He did some good things. He also did his share of bad things. To put him in a class of Matt Millen though is stupid. If you want to put him in the Matt Millin Catagory good for you ... maybe it is idiots week around here. Don't come at me knocking me though for putting thought into a post. We are all Browns fans can't we play together and get along??

 

You are a typical bitter ass Browns fan still hating on a guy who has nothing to do with the team. You are probably the type of dude who's favorite player on his team is the back up QB.

 

 

 

[jnuh]

My argument wasn't that Savage was the man or the best GM in football. My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen, which he is. And I backed that up by citing rookies he brought into the league and became servicible NFLers. I never said that Braylon was a cornerstone of a franchise but he is an above average WR and a much better WR then anyone on our roster now and better then any other WR that has been on the Browns since the return. Basically what I am saying is BRaylon wasn't a complete miss like ALOT of our previous first rounders before him. He did become a good pro unlike all our first rounders from 1999 - 2003

 

And Alex Hall and Pool were a very small part of my argument. But since you want to talk about them ... Pool when healthy had some good games, and is going to probably start on a good Jets team. Alex Hall and some BS picks just landed us a pro bowl corner with a couple years left in his tank so the Eagles, another very good team, must see something in him. I never once said any of these guys were pro bowlers (except the 4 that actually were) but they are solid NFL role players. And teams need role players as well.

 

And out of his 4 first rounders Quinn was the only one who was awful. After Wimbleys rookie year Browns fans loved Wimbley and Savage for drafting him. Granted he never built off his rookie year, but that could have been a product of poor coaching.

 

JT is obviously a stud and Braylon is a above average WR. Granted I understand your argument for Braylon not panning but to be a superstar, but look at our drafts pre savage ... none of our first rounders were anything but busts. So I would take a guy who can play above average at his position, and make a pro bowl here and there rather then a Tim Couch, Gerrad Warren, C. Brown, or Willie Green any day.

 

My whole argument was more or less why do people hate Savage so much. He did some good things. He also did his share of bad things. To put him in a class of Matt Millen though is stupid. If you want to put him in the Matt Millin Catagory good for you ... maybe it is idiots week around here. Don't come at me knocking me though for putting thought into a post. We are all Browns fans can't we play together and get along??

 

You are a typical bitter ass Browns fan still hating on a guy who has nothing to do with the team. You are probably the type of dude who's favorite player on his team is the back up QB.

 

Zombo, just out of curiosity who would you have wanted to drafted in round 1 of the 2005 draft?? And be honest back then who did you want?

 

[Zombo]

My argument was that he had a decent eye for evaluating talent and that he was a better GM then Matt Millen

 

That's a compelling argument. A better GM than Matt Millen.

 

I suppose you also think the current chancellor of Germany is a better leader than Adolf Hitler. And that the current head of FEMA is better than Michael Brown. And that Peyton Manning has been a better QB than Jack Trudeau.

 

Way to put it all on the line...

 

Zombo

[choco]

to say savage is better than perhaps the worst ever GM in professional sports isn't saying much. phil missed on more picks than he hit, regardless of the round. for every one serviceable player he found, i'll name you 2 that are pumping gas or flipping burgers.

 

hitting top picks is easy, much easier than late rounders. JT was a can't miss pick.....rubin was good judgement.....EW has a good pick....DQ is not worthy of his slotting....any other picks still on this team? only 16 of his 30 picks as browns GM are still playing football, with 5-7 of those 16 actually contributing or starting.

 

so, yeah, i agree. he's better than millen. being better than xxxxing terrible is still not good by any means.

[peterbell]

Savage doesn't even belong in the same room as Mangini, Heckert or King Mike..2 years and no one has offered him a 2nd shot at GM..Why Not?,...because he sucked

[mohican]

QUOTE (mopaji @ Apr 7 2010, 10:09 AM)

Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.

 

That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.

 

 

He took Frye in the third round, actually.

 

Zombo

--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?

 

 

MOPAJI

short? Frye is 6'4" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Frye http://www.nfl.com/players/charliefrye/profile?id=FRY448685

 

Stupid? http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/25/wonderlic-me/

 

So, how much weight SHOULD the Wonderlic test carry in the world of quarterbacks? Let’s go through the Wonderlic scores of some of today’s quarterbacks and see how they play out:

 

Drew Henson 42

Alex Smith 40

Eli Manning 39

Brian Griese 39

Charlie Frye 38

Tony Romo 37

Drew Bledsoe 36

Matt Leinart 35

Kellen Clemens 35

Aaron Rodgers 35

Tom Brady 33

Steve Young 33

Joey Harrington 32

Patrick Ramsey 32

Sage Rosenfels 32

J.P. Losman 31

Matt Schaub 31

Phillip Rivers 30

Brady Quinn 29

Rex Grossman 29

Marc Bulger 29

Matt Hasselbeck 29

Troy Aikman 29

John Elway 29

Drew Brees 28

Peyton Manning 28

Kyle Boller 27

Ryan Leaf 27

Jay Cutler 26

Kyle Orton 26

Carson Palmer 26

Akili Smith 26

Ben Roethlisberger 25

Byron Leftwich 25

Chad Pennington 25

JaMarcus Russell 24

David Carr 24

Jason Campbell 23

Tim Couch 22

Trent Dilfer 22

Brett Favre 22

Michael Vick 20

Tarvaris Jackson 19

Bruce Gradkowski 19

Derek Anderson 19

A.J. Feeley 19

Daunte Culpepper 18

Aaron Brooks 17

Vinny Testeverde 17

Vince Young 16

Steve McNair 15

Randall Cunningham 15

Dan Marino 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

David Garrard 14

Donovan McNabb 14

Marcus Vick 11

Jeff George 10

Chris Leak 8

 

________________________________________________________________________________

______

So if we give you the low arm strenght and University of Akron as valid points, you're doing 2-5 for your post.

 

 

Kinda Phil Savage-esque, if I don't say.

[cdl15]

He took Frye in the third round, actually.

 

Zombo

--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?

and the biggest hole was qb

he took the home town boy get over yourself man, or just wait till heckett gets fired than you can change your opinion abbout him too

[mopaji]

He took Frye in the third round, actually.

 

Zombo

--And you think I'm ridiculous ...?

 

 

Thanks for the correction. That makes it even worse.

[mopaji]

QUOTE (mopaji @ Apr 7 2010, 10:09 AM)

Zombo, usually I think you're ridiculous but I'm with you on this one. Savage was a joke. He did nothing but draft players that couldn't start on any other team in the league and paid them a lot of money. I mean, he took Frye in the 4th round!!! And if it weren't for Savage letting him start for so long, he would be out of the league as well.

 

That's right, he took a short QB with zero arm strength and a very low IQ from The University of Akron, in the 4th round. Mind you, the team had tons of holes to fill at that point.

 

 

 

 

 

MOPAJI

short? Frye is 6'4" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Frye http://www.nfl.com/players/charliefrye/profile?id=FRY448685

 

Stupid? http://www.armchairassociation.com/2008/04/25/wonderlic-me/

 

________________________________________________________________________________

______

So if we give you the low arm strenght and University of Akron as valid points, you're doing 2-5 for your post.

 

 

Kinda Phil Savage-esque, if I don't say.

 

 

Forgive me, maybe I should have googled before I made valid points. The point is, Frye was aweful and it took all of 3 seconds of watching him to see he had zero NFL ability. And yes, he was stupid. Did you ever hear him speak or watch him play?

 

For the record, I said the same about Quinn and I don't find it surprising that both were shipped out of town. And to say my 2 for 5 is "Savage-esque" kind of solidifies my point. Savage was a bad GM and that's what this thread is about. It would be very hard to find somebody who thinks otherwise about him.