Rare, But Important Demonstration of Intestinal Fortitude

[VaporTrail]

The way I take it is a book of life lessons. I try not to get too hung up on what many argue as "facts", ie the world was created in 7 days. I just don't believe that arguing either way about what I consider semantic evidence diminishes the book. The simplest way I can put my view is the example of the 10 commandments: no matter your religious belief I don't get how anyone can argue that those aren't 10 rules that if you live by will help maximize your human potential.

 

I'd say the ten commandments has a good 8 rules.

 

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

 

What about all of the beautiful Roman, Indian, pagan, *insert religion here* works of art that have been created? What about every other religion that ever existed? The first commandment straight up labels all other religions as incorrect. Why does saying "god dammit" make you a bad person?

 

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

 

Okay, I can live with this one if I so choose to believe in a sabbath day, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

 

Not a universal law. What if they are abusive or molest you?

 

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

 

Okay, I can dig it, even though this is coming from a dude that committed quite a few genocides according to the good book.

 

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

 

Don't cheat, lie, or steal? Good stuff.

 

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

 

Don't covet? Everyone would be in jail if this were law.

 

So, I'd say there are four or five legit rules in the ten commandments, the rest are bs.

[smalls1129]

I think you're being to literal with the words. By definition (at least my definition of God, all powerful, all knowing, all present) if there IS a GOD then there is only ONE GOD. It is a logical fallacy think multiple Gods could exist with the definition I laid out. All it is saying is that I am real and to worship others is to worship a falsehood.

 

Lords name in vain...all right definitely not as pressing as the others.

 

Not sure where you got the text for the 2nd but I have always known it to be do not create false idols to worship...which makes sense to me. Sort of like the way we prop celebrities as Idols. If there be a God, it would make sense to warn against "fake" idols that will appear to misguide the "spiritual". And, to me, this one does not negate religions such as the pagan or the eastern religions b/c their focus in on nature which I see as a different side to the same coin.

 

Your examples against 5 and 6 are kinda idiotic. There are extreme circumstances always, and notice it say murder not kill.

 

And to not covet is absolutely a goal to work on as a human. Coveting is the road to jealousy and while hard to achieve I believe we would all be better in a world with out jealousy.

[Westside Steve]

Actually I'd taken #3 as meaning not to take the name in vain by using it for self promotion.

Merely claiming to be a Christian to curry favor with clients associates or, uh, voters.

 

As for belittling the "don't covet" I guess wee'd be better off if we weren't constantly pissed off about someone else's good fortune.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

So your point is to select a story and to try to paint me into a corner by answering one way or another.

 

There are many sects and many groups within Christianity. To cut through all the 'noise' certain groups like to create, I like to go to the source: the Bible.

 

I know that it is a compilation of stories over the course of many years. I believe it is sacred and was inspired by the work and will of God.

 

I don't know enough about the Book of Mormon - I have not studied it. However, why study it when the actual word of God is already available.

 

That's my faith and that's my belief, Heck. Why does it bother you?

 

I didn't say it bothered me. I was asking you if you believed in what the Mormons claim, which is that the Bible is incomplete, and that it's got a sequel.

[VaporTrail]

I think you're being to literal with the words. By definition (at least my definition of God, all powerful, all knowing, all present) if there IS a GOD then there is only ONE GOD. It is a logical fallacy think multiple Gods could exist with the definition I laid out.

 

So do you believe that there is an omnipresent, omniscient, all-good God that is watching over us and has the power to intervene?

 

All it is saying is that I am real and to worship others is to worship a falsehood.

 

What makes all the others a falsehood? What makes this one god, the true one?

 

Not sure where you got the text for the 2nd but I have always known it to be do not create false idols to worship...which makes sense to me. Sort of like the way we prop celebrities as Idols. If there be a God, it would make sense to warn against "fake" idols that will appear to misguide the "spiritual". And, to me, this one does not negate religions such as the pagan or the eastern religions b/c their focus in on nature which I see as a different side to the same coin.

 

What makes YHWH any less false than any of the other things that lead to idolatry?

 

Your examples against 5 and 6 are kinda idiotic. There are extreme circumstances always, and notice it say murder not kill.

 

There are less extreme circumstances where I can see parents not being worthy of unconditional honor. What if they just don't give a shit about their kids, why should you have to feel guilty to respect them if they can't respect you? And yes, this translation that I picked out says "murder," you can find many others that say "kill." Regardless, if you killed someone because they were fond of receiving blowjobs, what would that make you? A murderer. The god of the old testament destroyed two whole cities for that reason, that makes him a murderer in my book. You can't come up with a set of universal laws for every possible situation, it just isn't feasible.

 

And to not covet is absolutely a goal to work on as a human. Coveting is the road to jealousy and while hard to achieve I believe we would all be better in a world with out jealousy.

 

You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting something or someone.

[Mr. T]

Why would someone dis-credit anothers opinion just because they believe in God?

 

Translations may have been skewed along the way, Maybe some should interest themselves into why King James had and english translation of the bible as we know it today. some say it was a control mechanism while others believed it was to sort out some of the false translations that had been handed down over the years.

 

As far as believing Jesus was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead, that is where your faith will come into play.

[VaporTrail]

But faith is such a cop out. If you have faith in the resurrection, do you believe that the prophet, Allah, rode down from heaven on a pegasus? If not, it makes no sense to take one of the thousands of existing myths, which have zero evidence, and put it above any other. Why should something that is written in a so-called "holy" book be above question?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

But faith is such a cop out. If you have faith in the resurrection, do you believe that the prophet, Allah, rode down from heaven on a pegasus? If not, it makes no sense to take one of the thousands of existing myths, which have zero evidence, and put it above any other. Why should something that is written in a so-called "holy" book be above question?

 

 

Vapor, I realize you're a college know-it-all, and want to question everything, but believe it or not, you don't know shit yet. You're still a frigging kid for Christs sake. Don't diss others faith and beliefs because of your extremely small existence on this planet. Show some xxxxing respect.

[VaporTrail]

Vapor, I realize you're a college know-it-all, and want to question everything, but believe it or not, you don't know shit yet. You're still a frigging kid for Christs sake. Don't diss others faith and beliefs because of your extremely small existence on this planet. Show some xxxxing respect.

 

Or, you can bite me. Call me a child and then tell me that religious beliefs demand respect because they're religious? Piss off. If I want to question others' beliefs, then you'd better believe I'll question others' beliefs.

[calfoxwc]

I don't understand the tenacity of individuals, shall we say, -liberal/progressive- individuals? to

 

mock other's religious and family values beliefs.

 

There are scientists who study the Bible, and only God/Jesus knows how much of the Bible

 

is an allegory, or how much is a description of what exactly happened in their own understanding.

 

Scientifically, it is quite possible the red sea parted - I've seen that explanation by scientists on TV,

 

but, to attribute that occurence to the intentional deeming of God, is a matter of belief.

 

Your arguments against some of the ten commandments seems extremely bogus.

 

Why the antagonistic approach? "Honor thy father and mother" ? If they molest you, honor them

 

by refusing to continue the cycle of violence, and turning them into the police. So, good for them that

 

you got intelligence to do the right thing, and be the RIGHT kind of person.

 

so, you could look at it that way, too.

 

"Don't covet" ? It isn't a list of Ten Commandments you have to follow or go to jail. They are

 

rules to work to live by.

 

The major point of all the rules in the Old Testament, is that it is absolutely impossible to follow all the rules.

 

So, Jesus died to absolve us of that human inability to follow all those rules.

 

Anyways, when you get older, and watch life, and the world, eventually a lot of people look

 

to the existence of God as the only explanation for what exists, and how it came to be.

 

If you do not have any spiritual beliefs, no one is mocking you for that. I wish that the mocking

 

of spiritual beliefs would cease.

 

The only reason I am here at all, is because of an absolute miracle when I was a kid. Do I atribute that

 

occurence to the existence and Love of God for us all? YES.

 

Try to not discount the differing view you may have of the whole world and spiritual understanding of God

 

that is all too possible, as you get a lot of years on you. Deal ?

[VaporTrail]

I don't understand the tenacity of individuals, shall we say, -liberal/progressive- individuals? to mock other's religious and family values beliefs.

 

I don't understand why an atheist is the least-trusted type of individual in America, moreso than blacks, gays, or Muslims. Religious beliefs were born thousands of years ago for a society that is vastly different than our own, they were used to explain things that people could not understand, they were used to control large groups of ignorant people.

 

There are scientists who study the Bible, and only God/Jesus knows how much of the Bible is an allegory, or how much is a description of what exactly happened in their own understanding.

 

We are neither God nor Jesus, why not look for answers ourselves instead of trusting the people who put the book together over a thousand years ago? Why should the contents of the Bible be exempt from criticism?

 

Scientifically, it is quite possible the red sea parted - I've seen that explanation by scientists on TV, but, to attribute that occurence to the intentional deeming of God, is a matter of belief.

 

Indeed, but I think it's very foolish to come to the conclusion that God must have been responsible if we can't explain something.

 

Your arguments against some of the ten commandments seems extremely bogus. Why the antagonistic approach? "Honor thy father and mother" ? If they molest you, honor them by refusing to continue the cycle of violence, and turning them into the police. So, good for them that you got intelligence to do the right thing, and be the RIGHT kind of person. "Don't covet" ? It isn't a list of Ten Commandments you have to follow or go to jail. They are rules to work to live by.

 

Okay, so if I murder two people a year, I should keep working at it until I murder only one person a year, and then eventually I'll murder no people a year? I'm not saying the Ten Commandments are a terrible list, I just don't think that they, in addition to the golden rule are the be-all-end-all that a good amount of people make them out to be.

 

The major point of all the rules in the Old Testament, is that it is absolutely impossible to follow all the rules.

 

Wat. I thought the point of the OT was the prophecy of the Messiah, and that he would come. And that god was a badass, and if you crossed him, he'd smite your puny ass as well as all of your family.

 

So, Jesus died to absolve us of that human inability to follow all those rules.

 

Why did god knowingly kill himself to save us. I mean, if he knew what was going to happen, was it really a sacrifice? Why, according to one gospel, does Jesus ask on the cross, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" I thought he was all god and all human, and if he's all god, doesn't he know everything?

 

Anyways, when you get older, and watch life, and the world, eventually a lot of people look to the existence of God as the only explanation for what exists, and how it came to be.

 

And I've traveled a good amount of my life as Roman Catholic (confirmed, btw, lol). I came to the opposite conclusion. If God is all-knowing and all-good, why does he allow people in Africa to be born and starve to death before even getting a chance to live life? What kind of sick bastard would knowingly create all this injustice in the world and allow it to happen when he could supposedly intervene? I don't know why we are here, I won't pretend to know why we are here. It could've been an anthropomorphic something that created us, but this deity cannot intervene now. God cannot be all-present, all-knowing, and all-good if he has the power to intervene, if that is the case, he is imperfect because of the injustices he allows.

 

If you do not have any spiritual beliefs, no one is mocking you for that. I wish that the mocking of spiritual beliefs would cease. The only reason I am here at all, is because of an absolute miracle when I was a kid. Do I atribute that occurence to the existence and Love of God for us all? YES.

 

But you have nothing to show for it as far as tangible evidence goes. I'd go so far as to say your miracle could be explained given enough study, this says nothing to me about proof of a god.

 

Try to not discount the differing view you may have of the whole world and spiritual understanding of God that is all too possible, as you get a lot of years on you. Deal ?

 

No deal, I find it highly doubtful that I will ever return to the faith, especially one that protects pedophiles, fears giving women power, and hates gays.

 

[smalls1129]

I think you're being to literal with the words. By definition (at least my definition of God, all powerful, all knowing, all present) if there IS a GOD then there is only ONE GOD. It is a logical fallacy think multiple Gods could exist with the definition I laid out.

 

So do you believe that there is an omnipresent, omniscient, all-good God that is watching over us and has the power to intervene?

 

 

I am basing my definition of God on philosophy not religion. You're in college right, go ask any philosophy prof for a standard definition of God and this is roughly what they will tell you. If there be multiple Gods then logically there'd be none. Unless you're just projected human characteristics on A GOD, in which case you're merely defining a demi-God. I guess that was a long winded way to say Yes to your question. That is what I believe. Also, the reason it is only a belief and not a 'KNOW' is b/c I do not have the power to even image infinity that alone understand infinite concepts. I believe it was Locke who coined the term immensity of knowledge, which is one mans ability to handle infinite concepts. In other words immensity would differ from man to man b/c each person has his own limit of understanding.

All it is saying is that I am real and to worship others is to worship a falsehood.

 

What makes all the others a falsehood? What makes this one god, the true one?

 

 

 

Not sure where you got the text for the 2nd but I have always known it to be do not create false idols to worship...which makes sense to me. Sort of like the way we prop celebrities as Idols. If there be a God, it would make sense to warn against "fake" idols that will appear to misguide the "spiritual". And, to me, this one does not negate religions such as the pagan or the eastern religions b/c their focus in on nature which I see as a different side to the same coin.

 

What makes YHWH any less false than any of the other things that lead to idolatry?

 

I wouldn't argue that Yaweh is false at all. In fact I DO believe Yaweh to be the same God as in the Bible. The energy, man, concept was just referred to by a different name.

 

Your examples against 5 and 6 are kinda idiotic. There are extreme circumstances always, and notice it say murder not kill.

 

There are less extreme circumstances where I can see parents not being worthy of unconditional honor. What if they just don't give a shit about their kids, why should you have to feel guilty to respect them if they can't respect you? And yes, this translation that I picked out says "murder," you can find many others that say "kill." Regardless, if you killed someone because they were fond of receiving blowjobs, what would that make you? A murderer. The god of the old testament destroyed two whole cities for that reason, that makes him a murderer in my book. You can't come up with a set of universal laws for every possible situation, it just isn't feasible.

 

My point was there are situations where even the most religious (not zealot either think little old lady with her Rosemary) would strike violence to preserve their self. And this is in noway contradictory to my interpretations of the scriptures.

 

 

And to not covet is absolutely a goal to work on as a human. Coveting is the road to jealousy and while hard to achieve I believe we would all be better in a world with out jealousy.

 

You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting something or someone.

 

 

Perhaps you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting something but you should feel guilty for pinning over someone else's possessions and/or good fortune. Coveting is not simply seeing something and saying gee that would be nice. Coveting is actually stewing over and planning a way to take one's good fortune away from them purely out of the jealousy that they have it and you don't.

 

 

Main Entry: cov·et

Pronunciation: \ˈkə-vət\

Function: verb

Etymology: Middle English coveiten, from Anglo-French coveiter, from Vulgar Latin *cupidietare, from Latin cupiditat-, cupiditas desire, from cupidus desirous, from cupere to desire

Date: 14th century

transitive verb

1 : to wish for earnestly <covet an award>

2 : to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

intransitive verb

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/covet

 

[VaporTrail]

I am basing my definition of God on philosophy not religion. You're in college right, go ask any philosophy prof for a standard definition of God and this is roughly what they will tell you. If there be multiple Gods then logically there'd be none. Unless you're just projected human characteristics on A GOD, in which case you're merely defining a demi-God.

 

Well, I guess that's what happens when I make assumptions. But this multiple-god thing being logically equal to none? Never heard that before, and I'll admit, I've only taken an intro to philosophy course. But I will look into this. d<_< Any links you could provide would be helpful.

 

I guess that was a long winded way to say Yes to your question. That is what I believe. Also, the reason it is only a belief and not a 'KNOW' is b/c I do not have the power to even image infinity that alone understand infinite concepts. I believe it was Locke who coined the term immensity of knowledge, which is one mans ability to handle infinite concepts. In other words immensity would differ from man to man b/c each person has his own limit of understanding.

 

Very well, me assuming again.

 

I wouldn't argue that Yaweh is false at all. In fact I DO believe Yaweh to be the same God as in the Bible. The energy, man, concept was just referred to by a different name.

 

Yahweh IS the god in the bible. I was asking why he couldn't be just as false as any other god before him.

 

Perhaps you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting something but you should feel guilty for pinning over someone else's possessions and/or good fortune. Coveting is not simply seeing something and saying gee that would be nice. Coveting is actually stewing over and planning a way to take one's good fortune away from them purely out of the jealousy that they have it and you don't.

 

Does that definition actually include planning to take it? Bleh, we're arguing semantics. Anywho, your points are valid, and I'll give you that seven the Ten Commandments do make sense as a starting point.

[Westside Steve]

I don't understand why an atheist is the least-trusted type of individual in America, moreso than blacks, gays, or Muslims.

 

They just seem like bigger assholes.

I mean if one's faith makes him feel more grounded even though it differs from someone elses I don't so much care.

But atheists only exist out of spite and bitterness toward people of faith.

No other reason.

 

 

 

 

Religious beliefs were born thousands of years ago for a society that is vastly different than our own, they were used to explain things that people could not understand, they were used to control large groups of ignorant people.

 

Now we have the Democrat party to serve that purpose.

WSS

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Hahahaha. You're on a roll this morning.

 

My kid is being weaned off breastfeeding and even he's not this cranky.

 

 

 

 

[Westside Steve]

Hahahaha. You're on a roll this morning.

 

My kid is being weaned off breastfeeding and even he's not this cranky.

 

 

Remember, this is the worst time to leave him alone with Uncle Shep.....

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

ROF,LMAO !!!

 

dammit, Steve....I just took a drink of Coke, too.

 

dammit.

 

[VaporTrail]

They just seem like bigger assholes.

I mean if one's faith makes him feel more grounded even though it differs from someone elses I don't so much care.

But atheists only exist out of spite and bitterness toward people of faith.

No other reason.

 

Out of spite? In my case, yes, I definitely feel some spite toward religion, especially Catholicism. However, that's not why I'm an atheist, maybe it's why I'm an outspoken one, but not why I am one. I'm not satisfied with what religion offers. It claims to be the authority on questions that no human has ever had answers for. I can't take it seriously because they claim that they're right and have no evidence to back it up.

 

 

 

 

Religious beliefs were born thousands of years ago for a society that is vastly different than our own, they were used to explain things that people could not understand, they were used to control large groups of ignorant people.

 

Now we have the Democrat party to serve that purpose.

 

That's any kind of political/national party. It serves the same purpose as religion, to control the masses, the only difference is that these parties do things that make a tangible difference in your life, whereas what you do for religion is counted on your next life.

 

[Chicopee John]

>>..........the only difference is that these parties do things that make a tangible difference in your life, whereas what you do for religion is counted on your next life.>>

 

 

Did Mother Theresa make a tangible difference in people's lives? Did Billy Graham? There are many, many examples of lives changed for a belief in God.

 

You are welcome to your opinions - and thanks for sharing them on this board - but spend some time thinking about what you type and think before you say them (I wish I could put that advice into practice more often).

 

Also, please don't get caught up in what God says and what religion preaches. You have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaffe.

 

[osusev]

atheists exist out of spite and bitterness toward peoples faith....... WOW

 

national academy of science...71% of all members are atheists

Royal Academy of science----91% of all members are atheists

 

I cant remember the poll from Nature something like 97% of all natural scientists are atheists.......

 

Steve Atheism exists because we dont accept dogma and plagiarism compiled fables written by unknown authors that would have worshipped a plane because they dont understand the concept of lift.........

 

We exist because the basic need of intelligent independent thinkers to understand and not just make up stories or use a term like faith to blanket any fear of death or the unknown.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

They just seem like bigger assholes.

I mean if one's faith makes him feel more grounded even though it differs from someone elses I don't so much care.

But atheists only exist out of spite and bitterness toward people of faith.

No other reason.

 

LOL, wow. It's actually the opposite. So far, you get the prize for most ignorant comment this month.

 

Does that apply to Agnostics?

[Chicopee John]

>>Steve Atheism exists because we dont accept dogma and plagiarism compiled fables written by unknown authors that would have worshipped a plane because they dont understand the concept of lift.........

 

We exist because the basic need of intelligent independent thinkers to understand and not just make up stories or use a term like faith to blanket any fear of death or the unknown.

 

God Bless you, Sev.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Or, you can bite me. Call me a child and then tell me that religious beliefs demand respect because they're religious? Piss off. If I want to question others' beliefs, then you'd better believe I'll question others' beliefs.

 

Don't have a temper tantrum. You're showing your lack of maturity already. You are very dismissive of others beliefs, but rant and rave about your experience with growing up being a catholic. Cry me a frigging river. Life sucks, but people still have faith. I guess you just gave up.

[VaporTrail]

Don't have a temper tantrum. You're showing your lack of maturity already. You are very dismissive of others beliefs, but rant and rave about your experience with growing up being a catholic. Cry me a frigging river. Life sucks, but people still have faith. I guess you just gave up.

 

No, I didn't just give up. I tried for a long time to reinforce the fact that I was confirmed and that I did believe these things, but I couldn't rectify my beliefs with the world around me. You call me immature because I'm still in college, but I bring up what I believe is a legitimate point, and you call it a rant and a rave because I take offense when you call me a child. Well, I still refuse to respect your beliefs just because they're religious beliefs. Give me a reason to respect them, and I'll give it a good-ole college try. In case you haven't noticed, religious beliefs are on the decline in America. Get used to it.

[calfoxwc]

So, you don't respect Christianity then.

 

or the Muslim faith, or the Jewish faith, or the Buddist's faith,

 

etc etc etc.

 

Meanwhile, we respect your right to not have any.

 

think about it, Hateful Guy.

[Kosar_For_President]

Don't have a temper tantrum. You're showing your lack of maturity already. You are very dismissive of others beliefs, but rant and rave about your experience with growing up being a catholic. Cry me a frigging river. Life sucks, but people still have faith. I guess you just gave up.

 

You mean you need to go to church and take communion to have faith? I've been doing this all wrong. Thank you for showing me the light. I am now not afraid to die. LOL!

[VaporTrail]

So, you don't respect Christianity then. or the Muslim faith, or the Jewish faith, or the Buddist's faith, etc etc etc. Meanwhile, we respect your right to not have any. think about it, Hateful Guy.

 

I have little respect for any of the Abrahamic religions. Buddhism not so much. I dislike that all of them, including Buddhism, take mythic stories to be truth, and that they're completely incompatible with each other. According to Islam, you can't see paradise if you accept Christ as the Messiah. According to Christianity, salvation relies on Christ. I dislike the Abrahamic religions because of the intolerance and hate that seethes from their respective organizations. It's just a stupid thing that people claim is solely religious or spiritual, yet they base many of their decisions in this real world, on some cosmic promise. That's why I bother to say something. Religions aren't deserving of respect just because they're religions.