Arizona Immigration Law Debate

[Chicopee John]

Do you think this cop should lose his job?

 

At the very least he should be reprimanded with a permanent notation in his file - assuming they actually were US citizens or had adequate Green Card status.

 

 

For the record, I work at an outdoor music theater in the summer - selling beer. I card EVERYBODY. I see fake IDs and do challenge people about things like street address, etc.

 

You weren't talking about fake credentials, were you, Vape?

 

[VaporTrail]

Well, I think that's different. You don't have the option to verify SSN's, cops do, and I'm pretty sure the picture on your ID comes up, too. If that's not verification, I don't know why having an easily faked birth certificate is any better.

[calfoxwc]

The cop should lose his job, unless there were factors in his suspicion.

 

I think somebody who gets a drivers license has to know better English

 

than maybe this guy had.

 

Or, the cop was racially profiling because he was a bigot.

 

Don't know enough to know who was at fault...

[VaporTrail]

I think somebody who gets a drivers license has to know better English

 

Why?

 

I took my test in Painesville, the two people taking it next to me were Mexican, they took their tests in Spanish.

[osusev]

come on vapor...... you know why "americans" want english to be the metric...... This country which is less than 300 years old FILLED with immigrants from all over the globe that came over in waves...... now have a problem with the new wave... like they did with the Irish or Italians or blacks, chinese..... etc rinse, and repeat...... etc

 

This "problem" is actually pretty easy to stabilize not fix..... Its a supply side issue. Jail the Farm owner or the manufacturer for breaking criminal laws and actually enforce them along with issue easy access worker permits and make employers withhold a flat tax because they are not citizens and probably wont file taxes.......

 

You cant prosecute supply and demand like drugs.... you legalize and enforce supply side controls........

 

This truly IS NOT a hard problem to solve if you can get past the political BS and the fact neither party wants to go after agri jobs which would increase prices to consumers nor manufacturing along with all of the jobs from INS and border patrol along with other supporting industries who exist and profit from "enforcement"...........

 

This kind of crap which in practice is easy to deal with but the fiscal and political influences make this into a mess...

[Mr. T]

The problem is that those who are currently in office are profiting one way or another from illegals being here.

 

Then you have idiots loke obammy and sharpten making this a racial thing to keep them in power while alloing illegals to rape our resources and giving them the power to vote to keep them in office. While those who support these 2 carpet baggers are getting the shaft while being unemployed or having to except lower paying jobs.

 

Then everyone gets the shaft with Higher Crime!

[VaporTrail]

Every American that is benefiting from cheap produce prices (that includes you, me, and everyone else that doesn't personally grow their own food). Should the issue of illegal laborers be addressed, we'll have to bear the higher cost of produce when everyone that picks them makes minimum wage.

 

Everyone needs to be down for this if we ever really want to fix this problem. If only...

[Mr. T]

For one is it really cheaper prices when we have to pay for their welfare and free medical?

 

 

Im sorry but I dont buy the argument that the illegals do the job that americans wont do.

 

 

Try telling that to someone who just lost or was dropped off of unemployment insurance while their house or car is being reposessed.

[Westside Steve]

For one is it really cheaper prices when we have to pay for their welfare and free medical?

 

 

Im sorry but I dont buy the argument that the illegals do the job that americans wont do.

 

 

Try telling that to someone who just lost or was dropped off of unemployment insurance while their house or car is being reposessed.

 

I disagree T.

Why in the world would company X hire an illegal when a US citizen would do the same job for the same money?

If a Mexican drywaller gets 10 bucks an hour instead of 35 to 50 that's why they work.

Even in my old hometown Carrollton Ohio Mexicans migrate in to pick crops though any job opening will have a line at the door.

 

Also I would guess the Mexican works harder than your average minimum wage earner that might be suited for that menial task.

Guess that is.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

This is a horrible law. And I find it entertaining to watch all of those people who've been railing about government thugs and brownshirts and the sanctity of the Constitution and all the rest completely flip and suddenly support the types of things they feared were already happening, but weren't. Now they're excited that we've deputized the Arizona police with the job of demanding identification from anyone they see fit to demand it from. It's a horrible idea, and it's almost certainly unconstitutional. The government does not have the right to harass citizens based on their race.

 

That's correct.

Only on the basis of breaking the law.

 

One third of Arizona's population is Latino, and as American as you and me. They're all targets of this new law now, as long as a policeman thinks they look the part. Whatever that is.

 

And of course that's bullshit.

Just take a second and imagine if this were targeting European-looking immigrants, and what people on talk radio and this board would say then about gangster government and brownshirts

 

Really? Where is the defense of illegals from anywhere white? Just point it out and we'll see. We have lots of white eastern European kids on the island; none illegal AFAIK.

 

and police states, and how we're all targets now. And they'd be right, sort of. Crazy, but right.

 

Now the Nazi refs are cool. Good work Heck. Seems like only yesterday they were terrible.

 

But this is us vs. them, and nativism always trumps principle on the far right.

 

And power grabbing trumps the law of the land for Dems. We can look the other way if you vote in a big enough bloc.

 

If you want to know what I think should be done about immigration, I've already written it many times. Short answer: all you need to do is step up enforcement of the people who hire illegals, and fine them. You have to cut off the supply of jobs available. It works the same way as the influx of illegal drugs, except that cutting off the demand for illegal drugs is nearly impossible, whereas cutting off the demand of illegal employment isn't.

 

Enforce the existing laws fair enough.

Valid ID and guest workers.

Fine.

Speak English?

Good call.

Like I've supported all along.

 

But nobody is going to do this because 1) they like the cheap labor, and 2) it puts the onus on business, rather than the illegals themselves, who are much easier targets with no political clout. So we'll spend billions on stupid fences and beefed up patrols, while never addressing the basic supply and demand problem.

 

And you guys want the cheap votes.

 

Not to sound like you, but America wants it both ways. Something for nothing. And it won't work.

 

Apparently demagoguing the issue works for you.

 

But politically, hey, I'm all for you guys being for it. You just gave us Arizona and the growing Latino block of voters for the foreseeable future. Why do you think the Democrats floated the idea of doing immigration before climate? Because you guys will dig your own graves with this stuff. You'll lose the Latino vote and scare the shit out of sensible independents with your rhetoric.

 

So more screeching, please.

 

Didn't think I was screeching.

Or assaulting police or crying about Nazis.

Hey that was you guys.

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

I disagree T.

Why in the world would company X hire an illegal when a US citizen would do the same job for the same money?

If a Mexican drywaller gets 10 bucks an hour instead of 35 to 50 that's why they work.

Even in my old hometown Carrollton Ohio Mexicans migrate in to pick crops though any job opening will have a line at the door.

 

Also I would guess the Mexican works harder than your average minimum wage earner that might be suited for that menial task.

Guess that is.

WSS

 

 

 

Hell yeah they will work harder they are at the mercy of the one who hired them and are scared shitless that they will be turned in and deported.

 

They are the new slaves.

 

And while they continue to come over and work so cheap they are wrecking our economy and wiping out the middle class in this country. They are ignorant to the fact that they can ask for more pay.

 

Why do we have so many unemployed americans while we have so many illegal aliens working? Because the smart worker is not working for the company store.

[Chicopee John]

Every American that is benefiting from cheap produce prices (that includes you, me, and everyone else that doesn't personally grow their own food). Should the issue of illegal laborers be addressed, we'll have to bear the higher cost of produce when everyone that picks them makes minimum wage.

 

Everyone needs to be down for this if we ever really want to fix this problem. If only...

 

 

I would be willing to pay more, Vape. It is way less expensive than the benefits I indirectly pay for illegals at this time.

 

Just like those who decry the likes of Wal-Mart, etc. for their sourcing practices, we must be willing to 'pay more' for goods produced in the US. In the long run, it costs us less as more people gain employment, etc.

 

[Westside Steve]

Hell yeah they will work harder they are at the mercy of the one who hired them and are scared shitless that they will be turned in and deported.

 

They are the new slaves

 

 

Here's my take T.

As with many of uour European kids (used to their country's communist regimes) work hard for minimum wage because the more they work the more they make.

I think also people in other cultures are used to working harder than we do.

We've grown out of doing shitty jobs cheap.

Maybe when the Teamsters made it seem like unloading a truck was worth 45 bucks an hour back in the day.

 

 

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

I will give you an example.

 

This is Mansfield OH. Company X does snow removal for WallyWorld $450.00 to come out and remove snow. El Pedro comes out and removes it for $150

 

Company X is out of business. El Pedro makes $10. after he pays for the gas to remove the snow. And he has to split that between his 2 cousins who brought their trucks to help.

 

That is why I say they are wrecking the economy.

 

So lets give em amnesty make them citizens, we need more dummies who will work for free and Wally World can make mucho deniro.

[Pumpkin Eater]

I will give you an example.

 

This is Mansfield OH. Company X does snow removal for WallyWorld $450.00 to come out and remove snow. El Pedro comes out and removes it for $150

 

Company X is out of business. El Pedro makes $10. after he pays for the gas to remove the snow. And he has to split that between his 2 cousins who brought their trucks to help.

 

That is why I say they are wrecking the economy.

 

So lets give em amnesty make them citizens, we need more dummies who will work for free and Wally World can make mucho deniro.

 

 

and he sends half of what he does keep out of this country and back to his home country, while living with 15 other illegals in a three bedroom house. That is the main problem.

 

Round 'em up and deport 'em all. Get their illegal asses out of here.

[calfoxwc]

I disagree T.

Why in the world would company X hire an illegal when a US citizen would do the same job for the same money?

If a Mexican drywaller gets 10 bucks an hour instead of 35 to 50 that's why they work.

Even in my old hometown Carrollton Ohio Mexicans migrate in to pick crops though any job opening will have a line at the door.

 

Also I would guess the Mexican works harder than your average minimum wage earner that might be suited for that menial task.

Guess that is.

WSS

 

********************************

 

Steve ! Those companies will HIRE ILLEGALS because:

 

 

1. They aren't in the system, the co. doesn't have to pay health insurance.

 

2. Ditto, the Co. doesn't have to pay any UNEMPLOYMENT insurance.

 

3. They can be coerced to work longer, longer hours in a day, for the same pay.

 

The workers have no recourse. They are stuck.

 

4. They don't ask for raises, they can easily be replaced.

 

5. They can be mistreated, abused, discriminated against, unfairly accused,

made to work on construction projects around the co. owner's house... doesn't matter.

They are illegals, they can be booted out of country. Obviously, they can't go to an attorney

and sue for unfair labor practices etc.

 

6. The illegal immigrants end up being lowly paid slaves with no rights, no country, and if they try

to leave or complain, they can just be shot or something.

 

After all, they aren't officially known to be here, right?

 

7A> Six is kinda silly maybe, but this one is NOT. The illegals can work in areas of hazardous chemicals, etc,

like un-approved for use orchard and vegetable sprays, and they illegals lose their jobs or get found out

if they tried to report it, they probably don't read English much anyways as far as warning labels go.

 

7B> The illegals won't be seeing any fed required MSDS paperwork on hazardous chemicals, and won't

receive any kind of expensive, or even inexpensive safety equipment, like masks, gloves...

 

They are illegal. what law breaking illegal immigrant "hirer" has to comply? The illegals official don't exist here.

 

8. They don't have to pay for any medical expenses, can't be sued, and if they accidently get severely maimed or killed on site,

what company is going to say "Hey, I hire illegals, and this illegal was working in an unsafe environment, and got maimed or killed,

and it's all my fault so throw me in prison".

 

More likely, I suppose, from watching movies, the bad guys just dump them out in the desert and replace them.

 

9. Some smaller companies may hire them out of fear of reprisals - or afraid of drug runner violence.

 

10. I don't have a ten, but it seems fitting to get here. @@

 

Nobody is talking about green cards, or LEGAL immigrants who come here. That's fine by me.

[Chicopee John]

I don't always agree with this guy - actually, I OFTEN, disagree with him. However, I found this to be pretty close to bulls-eye.

 

 

 

Arizona immigration law exaggerated by foes

By Chris Powell Published: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:06 PM EDT

 

 

Arizona's new law criminalizing illegal immigration on the state level isn't quite as bad as it is being made out to be. Even President Obama is exaggerating it, suggesting that the law instructs police to demand proof of citizenship from people capriciously. Just taking one's kids out for ice cream could prompt such interception by police, the president says. Others have conjured up images of Arizona as the successor to Nazi-occupied Europe, with jackbooted soldiers stopping everyone and demanding, "Papiere, papiere!"

 

In fact the Arizona law authorizes police to ask about immigration status only in the course of their "lawful contact" with the public, as during a traffic stop or apprehension for suspicion of another crime, and only if the police have "reasonable suspicion" that someone stopped may be an illegal immigrant. Of course this authority itself is still subject to the most arbitrary use. That is, will white, clean-shaven, English-speaking men caught driving a little above the speed limit be asked about their immigration status as often as darker-skinned, Spanish-speaking or accented men caught doing the same thing?

 

But then any criminal law is subject to discriminatory enforcement. Even federal immigration agents, whose enforcement activities don't seem to be in question lately (if only because those activities are so spotty and ineffective), may rely on stereotype in their work. And even in Connecticut, whose experience with illegal immigrants has been mild compared to Arizona's, there have been many traffic stops that have produced evidence of nothing more than "driving while black."

 

The Arizona law might have done better to require immigration questioning by police for everyone but only after an arrest has been made on other charges, as part of a full identity check.

 

But most people who complain about the Arizona law have little right to, because they don't want any immigration law at all, don't want the United States to retain the right even to define itself as a nation. They offer the bogus rationales offered by "sanctuary cities" like New Haven and Hartford -- that any immigration law enforcement by local authorities will drive illegals "into the shadows," discourage them from cooperating with the police, and leave them without recourse to the police if they become victims of crime. Of course the same argument can be made for waiving enforcement of the law against bank robbery, since such enforcement discourages bank robbers from cooperating with police and reporting other crimes. What "sanctuary city" advocates overlook is that illegal immigration itself is a crime, a federal crime, and now, in Arizona, a state crime as well. "Sanctuary city" advocates overlook this because they really don't want any limit on immigration.

 

Even those who advocate better enforcement of immigration law as part of a broader policy including a "path to citizenship" for illegals -- the euphemism for still another amnesty -- would destroy more immigration law than they'd enforce.

 

There may be a better way of enforcing immigration law than having state and local police asking people about their immigration status at every opportunity. Most illegal immigration could be wiped out if enforcement aimed mainly at employers rather than illegal immigrants themselves. Immigration policy could require employers to produce citizenship or immigration papers for their employees at random sweeps throughout the year and could monitor day-labor hiring locations. There would be little need to apprehend or terrify illegal immigrants with midnight raids if their employers were vigorously prosecuted. Unable to find work, the illegals would go home at their own pace. Such an approach would be far more humane, and the Obama administration has shown some sympathy for it even as the administration remains so much more interested in straightening out Afghanistan than Arizona.

 

But as long as the federal government fails to apply the necessary resources to immigration law enforcement and as long as political division prevents any grand resolution in Washington, drafting local authorities into immigration law enforcement in the most immigrant-stressed areas is a good idea, as long as it respects civil liberties and avoids stereotyping. Indeed, the federal government has a program for training local police in immigration law enforcement, and Danbury, under Mayor Mark Boughton, has participated in it with some success without tyrannizing the city. For as Arizona has just recognized, if local authorities won't enforce immigration law, for the indefinite future nobody else will either.

 

-----

 

Chris Powell is managing editor of the Journal Inquirer.

 

[Westside Steve]

I disagree T.

Why in the world would company X hire an illegal when a US citizen would do the same job for the same money?

If a Mexican drywaller gets 10 bucks an hour instead of 35 to 50 that's why they work.

Even in my old hometown Carrollton Ohio Mexicans migrate in to pick crops though any job opening will have a line at the door.

 

Also I would guess the Mexican works harder than your average minimum wage earner that might be suited for that menial task.

Guess that is.

WSS

 

********************************

 

Steve ! The companies will HIRE ILLEGALS because:

 

 

1. They aren't in the system, the co. doesn't have to pay health insurance.

 

 

2. Ditto, the Co. doesn't have to pay any UNEMPLOYMENT insurance.

 

 

3. They can be coerced to work longer, longer hours in a day, for the same pay.

 

The workers have no recourse. They are stuck.

 

 

4. They don't ask for raises, they can easily be replaced.

 

All the above relate to independent cont5ractors of which I'm considered one. I get a 1099 so I gotta pay my own taxes. No sweat for the boss.

 

 

5. They can be mistreated, abused, discriminated against, unfairly accused,

made to work on construction projects around the co. owner's house... doesn't matter.

They are illegals, they can be booted out of country. Obviously, they can't go to an attorney

and sue for unfair labor practices etc.

 

Anybody can be asked to do that. Why can't the boss ask you to wash his car?

 

6. The illegal immigrants end up being lowly paid slaves with no rights, no country, and if they try

to leave or complain, they can just be shot or something.

 

After all, they aren't officially known to be here, right?

 

Shot? Uh .....

 

7A> Six is kinda silly maybe, but this one is NOT. The illegals can work in areas of hazardous chemicals, etc,

like un-approved for use orchard and vegetable sprays, and they illegals lose their jobs or get found out

if they tried to report it, they probably don't read English much anyways as far as warning labels go.

 

7B> The illegals won't be seeing any fed required MSDS paperwork on hazardous chemicals, and won't

receive any kind of expensive, or even inexpensive safety equipment, like masks, gloves...

 

They are illegal. what law breaking illegal immigrant "hirer" has to comply? The illegals official don't exist here.

 

Nobody is talking about green cards, or LEGAL immigrants who come here. That's fine by me.

 

 

BTW it's a federal law yu must have your green card or visa if you're here legally.

I don't see the gripe.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Anybody can be asked to do that. Why can't the boss ask you to wash his car? Steve

*************************************

ROF,L !

 

He can. But as a legal citizen and employee, there is every right to refuse, per one's job description,

either written, or by verbal contract, or simply look elsewhere to work.

 

But, an illegal is COERCED to do the bidding of his employer, or he can be turned in.

 

Blackmail to manipulate an illegal's behavior.

 

Besides, I was trying to get to 10, dammit. GGG

[Westside Steve]

Anybody can be asked to do that. Why can't the boss ask you to wash his car? Steve

*************************************

ROF,L !

 

He can. But as a legal citizen and employee, there is every right to refuse, per one's job description,

either written, or by verbal contract, or simply look elsewhere to work.

 

But, an illegal is COERCED to do the bidding of his employer, or he can be turned in.

 

Blackmail to manipulate an illegal's behavior.

 

Besides, I was trying to get to 10, dammit. GGG

 

 

Well Pancho's got the right to sneak back across the Rio Grande if he draws the line at washing the boss's car.

WSS

[Chicopee John]

Well Pancho's got the right to sneak back across the Rio Grande if he draws the line at washing the boss's car.

WSS

 

 

I can see the Burro Wash now. "Poncho and Lefty's".

 

[calfoxwc]

I'm getting very tired of the complete disregard for the law to stop illegal immigration...

 

by BOTH the Bush admin, and now, ESPECIALLY, the Obamao Regime.

[Westside Steve]

Crying for privacy in the form of the right to complete anonymity always rears its head when the far right or left wants to break the law.

 

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

MOVING TO MEXICO

 

President Obama:

 

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me. Our plan is to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements. We intend to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that my family and I are on our way over?

 

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

 

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. The local schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to free government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don't plan to purchase car insurance and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the media or local Mexican citizens.

12. I would also like to have a job without paying taxes and insist that Mexican labor laws are not enforced on any business I may start or work for.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so the Mexican government pays $4,500 to me to buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

 

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

 

Sincerely,

 

An American Citizen

[ballpeen]

Just a little story:

 

 

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: “Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”.

Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes

$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,

And gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.

Ready? Now pay attention….

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00

Per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has

$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or

$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has

$31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for

His family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now

Has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and

Local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has

$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or

Welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per

Year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps

And welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe

Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose

Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose

Illegal

Still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal

Now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, “We don’t need no stinkin’ insurance!” and still has

$31,200..00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,

Etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,

Gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after

Work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same school. Joe

Legal pays for his children’s lunches while Jose Illegal’s children get

A government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal’s children have an after

School ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,

But Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Jose with his free tax payer entitlements makes $65,000.00 a year!

 

[Westside Steve]

I realize food stamps are pretty easy to get but are illegals entitled to those other subsidies you mention?

 

I don't know; hence the question.

 

WSS

[SiperBowl]

This video shows that the majority of Illegal Mexicans dont care for the US, and they need to be sent home and we need to stop giving them welfare. But as long as democrats continue to give them free food health care and money they will continue to break our laws.

And we get to pay tax dollars that supports this crap!

[DieHardBrownsFan]

This video shows that the majority of Illegal Mexicans dont care for the US, and they need to be sent home and we need to stop giving them welfare. But as long as democrats continue to give them free food health care and money they will continue to break our laws.

And we get to pay tax dollars that supports this crap!

 

 

xxxxing scumbags.

[calfoxwc]

I think the rest of true America, needs to wake up.

 

we need to find out and fix what is going on.

 

 

On just THIS issue, some examples:

 

http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/aztlan.html

[Mr. T]

Over 10,000 Americans have lost their lives by the hands of illegal aliens since 911

 

Its time to put an end to the insanity. But Progressives Win 2 fold with them being here.

1) They stay in power when Illegals Vote

2) They get another crisis with higher crime and want to impose new laws on legal citizens.