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article talking about Arizona's oline

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Grimm has simplified things; Johnson makes relatively few calls at the line.

 

"Basically, you can't come to the sidelines and say you couldn't hear the call," Johnson said. "It's very simple rules. You are either covered or you are uncovered. They slide at the last second and you are uncovered, you know your rule. Everybody is accountable for what they need to do."

 

The depth on the line took a hit when Ross suffered a season-ending injury. But rookie first-round pick Levi Brown was going to be the starter at right tackle at some point anyway. Johnson and left tackle Mike Gandy are free-agent newcomers. Right guard Deuce Lutui has dropped weight in an effort to become more athletic.

 

Arizona still needs a run-blocking tight end to make the offense work as desired. In the meantime, the Cardinals will presumably use more three-receiver sets than the typical team seeking to establish a physical identity. Balance is the key.

 

Offensive lines need time together, so the Cardinals might not be particularly effective early.

 

"They have to run the football when it's so tempting to throw it because of who they have outside," said a veteran NFL player familiar with the Cardinals' personnel. "When they do throw it, they must be able to throw the comebacks and the deep crosses and the posts and the go routes that the Steelers ran when they were playing well.

 

"Last year they got into this pass-happy mode the first part of the year and they were not as successful. That is a big thing to look at for them."

 

Russ Grimm, pass happy? Excuse him while he sweats on you.

 

 

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Grimm looking to keep Cards grounded

By Mike Sando

ESPN.com

(Archive)

Updated: September 9, 2007

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TEMPE, Ariz. -- Russ Grimm starts apologizing before he finishes shaking hands.

 

He's sorry for sweating all over you.

 

What's an ol' Hog to do?

 

 

Greg Trott/Getty Images

 

Russ Grimm helped produce punishing ground games during his six-year run in Pittsburgh.

 

The temperature is pushing 110 degrees on the practice fields outside Arizona Cardinals headquarters. Grimm, the Cards' new offensive line coach, looks like he just finished off Darnell Dockett in goal-line drills.

 

 

 

The 48-year-old hasn't played a snap of pro football in 16 years, but he is the best-known offensive lineman in camp. Forever linked to the Washington Redskins' famed "Hogs" line of the 1980s, Grimm has what Arizona's line badly needs. He has an identity, clearly defined and unmistakable.

 

Grimm stands for running the football against an 11-man front if that's what it takes.

 

No wonder center Al Johnson smiled when asked about his new position coach.

 

"He is definitely one of the guys in that he has been in our position for many years and played at a very high level," Johnson said. "So he understands what it takes."

 

Grimm symbolizes what the Cardinals hope to become under new head coach Ken Whisenhunt: tough, consistent and accountable.

 

The organization has invested heavily in a range of talented offensive personnel. Matt Leinart is a franchise quarterback. Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin have combined for 357 receptions over the past two seasons. Edgerrin James still has enough left to move the chains.

 

None of it has mattered much because the Cardinals haven't gotten the job done up front. Or, as some players and team officials suggested, they haven't been allowed to get the job done up front.

 

"For whatever reason, we never really stuck with the running game [in past seasons]," guard Reggie Wells said. "Obviously, with coach Grimm and coach Whisenhunt's background, we're going to stick with it this year."

 

Blaming the former coach for every possible failure, plus a few imaginary ones, is a time-honored tradition in sports. Dennis Green brought a proven offensive system and a long history of success to the Cardinals in 2004. Like other adherents to basic West Coast offensive principles, Green preferred to set up the run with the pass. He probably went too far.

 

Three teams -- Detroit, Philadelphia and Cleveland -- passed more frequently than the Cardinals on first down last season. Arizona was one of a dozen teams that passed more than 50 percent of the time on first down. Only two of those teams, New Orleans and Philadelphia, finished with winning records.

 

 

Sandra Tenuto/WireImage.com

 

Running back Edgerrin James averaged just 3.4 yards a carry last season. His longest run was 18 yards.

When the Cardinals did run on first down, they averaged 3.91 yards per carry -- not great, but better than playoff teams Indianapolis, Dallas, New England, Chicago, Seattle, the New York Jets and Baltimore.

The point is this: Good teams did more than Arizona to establish the run on first down, even if they weren't gaining large chunks of yardage in the process. It's a lesson the new Cardinals won't learn the hard way.

 

The Steelers ran 67 percent of the time on first down during their 2005 Super Bowl season. That's a little extreme -- San Diego led the NFL at 64 percent last season -- but you get the point.

 

"Even though the Steelers weren't always touted as having the best offensive line, I think everybody would agree that those guys were the reason behind the success that Pittsburgh had," said Johnson, signed from Dallas in free agency. "They got the job done, and then it allowed everybody else to get their jobs done. That's what we want."

 

Grimm's six-year run as line coach in Pittsburgh produced a punishing ground game and a Super Bowl title, but not an unusually long list of Pro Bowl linemen. Alan Faneca and Jeff Hartings were consistently excellent at their positions. But some of the role players who left, including current Cardinal Oliver Ross, weren't as effective elsewhere.

 

The best offensive lines aren't always the most talented ones.

 

The Patriots fielded championship rosters for years without sending many offensive linemen to the Pro Bowl. Damien Woody (2002) and Matt Light (2006) have made the only Pro Bowl appearances by New England offensive linemen during the Bill Belichick era.

 

"You don't start breaking 20-yard runs from the very beginning," Wells said. "You start off and might get only one or two or three a pop, but you keep plugging away and that is when you start getting the big chunks. I think we are definitely capable of doing what they have done in the past in Pittsburgh."

 

Grimm has simplified things; Johnson makes relatively few calls at the line.

 

"Basically, you can't come to the sidelines and say you couldn't hear the call," Johnson said. "It's very simple rules. You are either covered or you are uncovered. They slide at the last second and you are uncovered, you know your rule. Everybody is accountable for what they need to do."

 

The depth on the line took a hit when Ross suffered a season-ending injury. But rookie first-round pick Levi Brown was going to be the starter at right tackle at some point anyway. Johnson and left tackle Mike Gandy are free-agent newcomers. Right guard Deuce Lutui has dropped weight in an effort to become more athletic.

 

Arizona still needs a run-blocking tight end to make the offense work as desired. In the meantime, the Cardinals will presumably use more three-receiver sets than the typical team seeking to establish a physical identity. Balance is the key.

 

Offensive lines need time together, so the Cardinals might not be particularly effective early.

 

"They have to run the football when it's so tempting to throw it because of who they have outside," said a veteran NFL player familiar with the Cardinals' personnel. "When they do throw it, they must be able to throw the comebacks and the deep crosses and the posts and the go routes that the Steelers ran when they were playing well.

 

"Last year they got into this pass-happy mode the first part of the year and they were not as successful. That is a big thing to look at for them."

 

Russ Grimm, pass happy? Excuse him while he sweats on you.

 

Mike Sando covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

 

 

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Last article. Just wanted a more complete idea about Russ Grimm. Needs to be the next Browns HC.

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Steelers' Grimm follows Whisenhunt to Cardinals

Associated Press

 

Updated: January 23, 2007, 6:16 PM ET

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PHOENIX -- Russ Grimm was hired as the Arizona Cardinals' assistant head coach and offensive line coach Tuesday, two weeks after he interviewed for the head coaching position.

 

Grimm's hiring comes two days after erroneous reports that the Pittsburgh Steelers had chosen him to replace retired coach Bill Cowher. Grimm wanted the Steelers job but said he was happy to reunite with Cardinals head coach Ken Whisenhunt, a former Steelers staffmate.

 

"It's about 23 degrees and snowing, so I'm looking forward to the weather," Grimm told reporters on a conference call from Pittsburgh.

 

Grimm interviewed for the Cardinals' and Steelers' top jobs. After the Cardinals hired Whisenhunt, Grimm appeared to emerge as the leading candidate to succeed Cowher.

 

On Sunday, a published report in the Pittsburgh area said the club would promote Grimm. But the Steelers instead hired Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin.

 

Grimm seemed disappointed but wasn't bitter over the way events played out.

 

"Obviously, it was tough," Grimm said. "I thought I had a shot at it. Whatever the details are and things like that, I respect the decision that was made.

 

"It's time to move on," he added. "I'm thrilled to be in Arizona."

 

The 47-year-old Grimm will be charged with improving the Cardinals' offensive line, which drew heavy criticism during the team's 5-11 season.

 

"Obviously, I know Russ very well from our time together with the Steelers and adding a coach of his caliber to the staff is tremendous," Whisenhunt said in a statement.

 

Grimm worked as an assistant with the Steelers the last six seasons. He spent the previous 19 years with the Washington Redskins -- as an all-pro guard for 11 seasons (1981-91) and then as an assistant coach for eight (1992-2000).

 

Grimm is a finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He said he's not anxious about the Feb. 3 vote in Miami.

 

"I tend to concentrate on the things I have control over," Grimm said. "Something like that is exciting, but it's something that's out of my hands."

 

Grimm is the fifth assistant to join Whisenhunt's staff. He joins defensive backs coach Teryl Austin, linebackers coach Billy Davis, strength and conditioning coach John Lott and special teams coach Kevin Spencer.

 

Grimm said it wouldn't be strange to work for Whisenhunt after competing with him for top jobs in Arizona and Pittsburgh.

 

"I don't mind riding shotgun," Grimm said.

 

 

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Yup just what we need another guy who can do what he is told to do for 15 years but will be clueless when it comes to running a whole football team just like our current HC..what part of loser do you guys not understand?

The steelers passed on promoting him thats all i needed to see..and the potentially great HCs get snagged early in their career like tomlin/billy b..grimm isnt even a coordinator he hardly qualifies for a HC job in my book..

He doesnt mind riding shotgun because thats what he is used to...he would make a great o-line coach though..

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Guest Aloysius

Is Arizona's o-line play this season really a badge of honor for Grimm?

 

Their running game is ranked last in the league, both in total yardage and yards per carry.

 

And '07 1st Round pick Levi Brown isn't exactly drawing rave reviews:

 

“(Cardinals ORT Levi) Brown has played (poorly). He’s giving up too many sacks. He uses (poor) technique and hand placement and gives up the edge. He’s underachieving. To think they gave up Adrian Peterson to take him.”

As the then-incoming o-line coach, I'm sure Grimm had a lot of input in the decision to pick Brown. So if Brown's not playing well & exhibiting poor technique, Grimm bears virtually all of the blame.

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Well, Levi Brown was THAT highly rated. Maybe he should have stayed a defensive lineman.

 

But, I'll cherry-pick, too:

 

K. Warner 323 472 3741 24

 

That is just shy of Drew Brees' yardage, and the same # TD's.

 

That's a lot of pass protection, ya know.

 

Drew Brees is currently the #1 offensive player in fantasy football ratings...

Kurt Warner is #3.

 

But, check this out:

 

NFC West

Arizona Cardinals 7 5 0 .583 338 313 25

San Francisco 49ers 4 8 0 .333 262 313 -51

Seattle Seahawks 2 10 0 .167 216 311 -95

St. Louis Rams 2 10 0 .167 159 360 -201

 

Arizona is winning their division. And they had THE FEWEST ATTEMPTS at running the football.

But, in rushing, they have more TD's than the Steelers...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2008

 

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Guest Aloysius

If you want to make an effective argument, I'd suggest you mention that Arizona's o-line has only given up 19 sacks this year, which is good enough for 11th in the league.

 

But then I'd respond that we're ranked 6th. Though we have better personnel & pass less often, it doesn't seem like what Grimm has done anything special.

 

Also, I'd add that Grimm's a proponent of the Pittsburgh-style mauling o-line. That's why he picked Brown.

 

By contrast, our personnel (particularly Thomas & Steinbach) is best suited for an agile, ZBS system. So unless Grimm's going to come here and - Mike Tomlin style - coach an o-line scheme he's never coached before, I'm not sure it's a good fit.

 

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But, check this out:

 

NFC West

Arizona Cardinals 7 5 0 .583 338 313 25

San Francisco 49ers 4 8 0 .333 262 313 -51

Seattle Seahawks 2 10 0 .167 216 311 -95

St. Louis Rams 2 10 0 .167 159 360 -201

 

I hate to tell ya, cal, but we'd probably be in first place in that division too.

 

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Guest Aloysius
Arizona is winning their division. And they had THE FEWEST ATTEMPTS at running the football.

As I mentioned, they also have the lowest YPC of any team.

 

Even if you don't run much, 3.3 YPC is really bad.

 

But, in rushing, they have more TD's than the Steelers...

I guess you can thank Mo Carthon for that. He played a big role in them selecting Tim Hightower in the 5th Round, and Hightower has 9 of Arizona's 13 rushing TD's.

 

But I don't think anyone will be calling for us to bring back Carthon...

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True, Al. But our sacks have almost always come up the middle across Fraley's disappearance to the right, or pass Hadnot on the right, or around bigfoot turnstile, Shaffer.

 

Shaffer is so gone as a starter RT. He can't even pull as an OG.

 

I don't believe Hadnot pulls as a guard. On run plays, Thomas and Steinbach can knock their guys

out of the way and go on to block further downfield.

 

Anyways, Shaffer can't do the zone blocking scheme at all at RT. And, he just got pounded back into DA

by a 250 defender. And, unless I'm mistaken, Shaffer is about 320-330.

 

BTW, Arizona still have their #1 starter upright. Our Browns have lost two starters in the last three games.

 

Who knows how long Dorsey will be able to avoid injury from the right side...

 

I just think Grimm is seriously intense. And Romeo is not. At all. But I believe Grimm knows

how to use the talent he has to best advantage, whereas Romeo does not.

 

I'd pick Grimm. We'll see.

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Actually, the WCO -alone- is what is not current. It's old school now, as the only way to go. The in thing now, as offenses and defenses have developed,

is a combination of the WCO and other offensive schemes:

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Today's NFL Offense

 

Since 2001, the San Diego Chargers' LaDainian Tomlinson has arguably been the NFL's best overall player. L.T.'s dominance and success has much to do with his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and with the system that is in place in San Diego. In 2006, L.T. set the NFL record with 31 total touchdowns (three receiving). The West Coast offensive feel is alive and well in places like San Diego, Washington, Indianapolis, Seattle, Detroit, and St. Louis.

 

Today's complex, read and react game requires a mixture of offensive schemes. The best offensive teams understand this and use a power running game mixed with a West Coast and Stretch or Spread system to create a truly balanced attack. Teams however play to their strengths and will continue to do this. In Denver and Washington, the run game comes first but in New England and Indianapolis, the pass reigns supreme.

 

The NFL has recently started shifting to a two running back system with teams finding tremendous success. In today's NFL, teams need a running back that can catch the ball out of the backfield, block and run between the tackles. With players faster and stronger today on defense, there are just a select few NFL backs that posses the complete package to do it all.

 

Teams like the Dallas Cowboys feature Julius Jones as their primary, slash back but then hit you with Marion Barber III, their knock out punch. The Cowboys are not the only team in the league using the two back system to perfection. In Jacksonville, Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew combined have proven too much for opposing defenses. The Jaguars two-pronged rushing attack is one of the best in the NFL.

 

The Spread Offense behind a rushing quarterback has also been effective, of course, mixed with some aspects of the West Coast offense. The emergence of the Spread and West Coast combination offense with a running quarterback is a new trend in the NFL. Donte Culpepper and Michael Vick showed us how potent that scheme is with the right personnel. Vince Young is today's best rushing quarterback behind a Spread, Option (handoff or quarterback keeper) attack, Tennessee Titan team.

 

I wouldn't pigeonhole Grimm as being outdated for any kind of scheme.

 

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Guest Aloysius

Shaffer played LT in a ZBS in Atlanta. And my sense is that we currently use a good deal of zone blocking in our system.

 

Shaffer's listed at 315 lbs., which could actually be one of his problems. In Atlanta, Alex Gibbs made all of his o-linemen keep under 300 lbs. That seems to be the case with most ZBS squads. Denver's current RT Ryan Harris is 6'5", 300, while Houston't Eric Winston is 6'5", 283.

 

Not only does that improve the guys' endurance, but it also helps them play with better balance.

 

Added weight is only a good thing if it comes with increased strength. In Shaffer's case, it only seems to have made him less agile & more prone to getting knocked off his feet, thereby killing two of our QB's.

 

If we switched to a Russ Grimm beat your man, physical o-line scheme, Shaffer definitely wouldn't be a good fit. Steinbach might not be as well; even Thomas wouldn't be a perfect fit.

 

If our line was our main problem, I could see us bringing in Grimm. But since it isn't, it seems counterproductive to bring in a guy whose system doesn't match our current personnel.

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article talking about Arizona's oline

*****************************************

 

Grimm has simplified things; Johnson makes relatively few calls at the line.

 

"Basically, you can't come to the sidelines and say you couldn't hear the call," Johnson said. "It's very simple rules. You are either covered or you are uncovered. They slide at the last second and you are uncovered, you know your rule. Everybody is accountable for what they need to do."

 

The depth on the line took a hit when Ross suffered a season-ending injury. But rookie first-round pick Levi Brown was going to be the starter at right tackle at some point anyway. Johnson and left tackle Mike Gandy are free-agent newcomers. Right guard Deuce Lutui has dropped weight in an effort to become more athletic.

 

Arizona still needs a run-blocking tight end to make the offense work as desired. In the meantime, the Cardinals will presumably use more three-receiver sets than the typical team seeking to establish a physical identity. Balance is the key.

 

Offensive lines need time together, so the Cardinals might not be particularly effective early.

 

"They have to run the football when it's so tempting to throw it because of who they have outside," said a veteran NFL player familiar with the Cardinals' personnel. "When they do throw it, they must be able to throw the comebacks and the deep crosses and the posts and the go routes that the Steelers ran when they were playing well.

 

"Last year they got into this pass-happy mode the first part of the year and they were not as successful. That is a big thing to look at for them."

 

Russ Grimm, pass happy? Excuse him while he sweats on you.

 

Cal how bout plowing the fields..............as always OL guys are a dime a dozen and proven..............and occasionally over a career do score touchdowns.........we now have a 100 million dollar line on your way to you guessed it at least 10 losses.....keep up the good work losing every year is a tough thing to do...............

 

but you may be onto something because OL guys are not a dime a dozen as coaches and ofen make the best coaches

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If we switched to a Russ Grimm beat your man, physical o-line scheme, Shaffer definitely wouldn't be a good fit. Steinbach might not be as well; even Thomas wouldn't be a perfect fit.

 

Phil Savage, upon reflection, strikes me as a "let me fit a square peg in a round hole" type of guy, perhaps making Grimm a perfect fit for us after all. Another square peg to go along with high-priced FAs Corey Williams and Kevin Shaffer.

 

Dammit. We deserve better.

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Guest Aloysius
That article's pretty outdated... using Young and Vick as good examples (!). But some of it's still true.

About as outdated as the articles about Arizona's o-line.

 

Al Johnson isn't even on the team anymore (he recently signed with Miami).

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Grimm didnt get the job here for the Steelers because he was a drunk and just thought since he worked for the organization as the o-line coach for years that he just had to show up and the job was his. He never dressed properly in a suit and tie when he came to interview for the head coaching job here on more then one occasion. He wore a flannel shirt and a sports coat to his interviews which is completely inappropriate. He was given numerous opportunities by the Rooney family to actually get the job and prove himself by having Grimm come in early at 7 in the morning to the facility and staying till late in the afternoon but he just never proved himself and his worth to the Rooney's enough to get the job over a guy like Tomlin.

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Cal, did you truncate my message I actually gave you a salute about OL guys being good coaches..................

 

and I am only 64 years and 22 days older than you...........kiddo

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Cal, did you truncate my message I actually gave you a salute about OL guys being good coaches..................

and I am only 64 years and 22 days older than you...........kiddo RICH

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No, -sir-, I didn't truncate it, Rich. I was taught to respect my older elders...

 

Thanks for that salute, I just like Grimm over the list I saw. We'll see who else may end up on that list...

 

 

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