2008 UDFA's

[Guest Aloysius]

This was started as a response to something Russ wrote in another thread, but it got so long that I figured it deserved a thread of its own.

 

Phillip should have hit on some UDFA's this year because they scouted the shit out of them since they had no picks. Cribbs fell in the Browns lap. He was a total local product that everybody from around here knew was a badass football player.

I agree, though I'd add that Alex Hall pretty much a UDFA that we decided to lock up with a late pick. Also, James Lee looked like a promising young o-lineman, but we let him get away to Tampa. Unless Isaac Sowells is secretly a phenomenal RT, I think we'll end up regretting that move.

 

And once again, it seems like Phil Savage was outdone by Bill Parcells:

 

Undrafted Dolphins are excelling

 

Though getting kickers & fullbacks as UDFA's isn't anything special, getting 30 catches out of a UDFA receiver certainly is.

 

A snippet:

 

How convinced were the Dolphins about [Davone] Bess? Agent Ken Zuckerman said GM Jeff Ireland, immediately after the draft, told him, "I really like this kid, and he's going to make our team." And Zuckerman said upon signing Bess, Dolphins college scout Adam Engroff told him, "We have our Wes Welker."

And how Jameel McClain ended up signing with the linebacker-rich Ravens still confuses me. In very limited play, he's got 1.5 sacks, and he's been very good on specials, notching a bunch of tackles and a blocked punt. How come the Ravens get to sign him, but we sign guys like Chase Ortiz?

 

Maybe this part of the article helps explain why we didn't get McClain:

 

Agent Peter Schaffer said "a bunch of teams" inquired about fullback Polite -- waived by the Bears in late August -- but "Bill and Jeff made it a no-brainer. Players know if you go to a Parcells/Ireland team it helps their career because they give players equal opportunity regardless of their draft status.''

Though Schaffer's clearly sucking up to Tuna here, you have to wonder: do prospective UDFA's see this as a place where they'll have a fair shot to make the team & get considerable playing time? Did our front office's moves, which signaled that we were gearing up for a Super Bowl run, scare away agents who thought their guys would only get playing time on a young, rebuilding squad? And where does RAC fit into all of this?

 

Looking forward, I think there are two things the next coaching staff (& FO?) could do to help us get more priority UDFA's:

1. Let Hall challenge Wimbley for the starting ROLB spot. If agents actually care about players getting "equal opportunity regardless of draft status," then letting a 7th Rounder unseat a top pick could send a message, both to future UDFA's and our current players.

    

2. Pay Cribbs. He's the one UDFA who's really helped us, and he signed a ridiculously below-market deal a few years back. Give him a good deal, maybe with an escape hatch in year 3 or 4 in case his body breaks down.

    

   If we give solid money to an undrafted guy, that should get the attention of some agents. Maybe not as much as when San Diego gave big money to UDFA Jyles Tucker after his rookie season, but it'll help.

As I mentioned in another thread, our hit rate on draft choices is up there with a bunch of good-drafting teams. But if we acquire two or three starting-caliber UDFA's over the next couple of years, that will work wonders for our cap and, hopefully, our record.

[Legacy Fan]

I like this idea Al. It mirrors with what the more recently successful college programs have done, and proven can work. It's amazing what you can accomplish if you can spot talent, recruit/draft/sign it, and then actually give it a fair shake to play. Florida & Meyer immediately come to mind. Telling kids like Harvin & Tebow they have a real shot to contribute in their freshman year if they can perform. They can, and do, and UF ends up beating the absolute piss out of everyone they play.

 

In the NFL you have Flacco, Ryan (Ok, not Ryan - he was drafted #1), Colston. We have Harrison (5th or 6th rd I think) and Cribbs. I definitely agree on paying Cribbs - what is Savage waiting for with that? Dummy. Wouldn't publicly rewarding that just play into Savage's reported ego when it comes to talent evaluation?

 

 

*edit*

Nice av, btw.

[JewDago]

quite a few things we've done this year would make UDFAs stay away: not playing rucker until we had to, not playing bell except on special teams, not playing harrison much when lewis is obviously ineffective, mishandling K2 (if we treat stars like shit, how do we treat average guys?), and the fans' treatment of DA. no one wants to play for a crowd that's hoping for someone to fail.

 

how do we fix it? let the young guys play. easy. also, the fans need to change their culture just as much as the organization needs to change theirs. the negativity works in philly somehow, but it doesn't in cleveland.

 

cribbs deserves to be paid regardless of savage. dude does too much for this team and is too valuable. he needs to be equitably compensated for his contributions.

 

last, at this point, i'd almost rather see isaac sowells than shaffer. letting james lee go was a huge blunder. good thing we kept that roster spot open for nick speegle.

[Riffer X]

Drafting Hall was a good move because there was no guarantee we could sign him, and as Phillip pointed out at his Browns Backers meeting in the spring, the Browns are very frugal about signing guys that are UDFA's, just as all teams are. They will haggle over $500 just as they do over 5 million.

 

I do have to say, I watched James Lee at camp and he was terrible, so when they released him for a stiff from the Giants I believe, I wasn't really surprised. I chalked it up to them not seeing any potential there, although his physical attributes said there could be. It seemed to me they were looking for somebody that could contribute if called upon and didn't deem Lee PS worthy.

 

Al, I do agree that Sowells appears to be the guy they're holding out hope for to develop, but I sure am not going to hold my breath on that one.

[Guest Aloysius]

Nice av, btw.

Ha. Thanks. I'm waiting for Shep to bust out a Maualuga avatar.

 

To respond to the points you, Russ, and JewDago made:

• I agree with most of what you guys wrote (especially when you agreed with me)

   

• At first, I didn't understand why GM's are stingy with UDFA's. Then I discovered that UDFA contracts also count as part of the rookie cap. That explains why teams are cautious about spending a lot of money on guys they didn't even draft - they're worried that giving too much to UDFA's will make it difficult for them to fit all of their draft picks under the cap.

   

  FWIW, I remember noticing that priority UDFA Curtis Johnson got a big $20k signing bonus from the Colts last year (normal bonus for UDFA's is $4-5K). And a couple years back, Bill Polian complained about not being able to sign all of his rookies under the cap; he even claimed that he wouldn't be able to sign 3rd Round pick Freddie Keiaho.

   

  There's probably a connection there. A team like Indianapolis spends a lot on UDFA's, but it makes it harder for them to fit their rookies under the cap.

   

  But their spending definitely reaps dividends. According to Draft Daddy, 57 '08 UDFA's have spent time on an active roster this season. Of those 57, 6 have been with the Colts, including some well-known guys (Rutgers DT Eric Foster, BC Safety Jamie Silva, and Curtis Johnson). And when Gary Brackett went down on Sunday, I noticed that the Colts used UDFA Jordan Senn instead of 3rd Round pick Philip Wheeler.

   

  So it looks like the Colts' strategy is a good one.

   

• Agree with JD about not playing Rucker & Harrison making us look bad. Bell may just suck (he's played in 5 games, but - other than the forced fumble earlier this year - he hasn't stood out much on specials).

   

  And our fans definitely aren't helping us. I mentioned Dan Orlovsky as a possibility in the backup QB thread, but then Lum mentioned that Orlovsky & DA are golf buddies.

   

  After how badly the fans at the stadium treated DA, I doubt Orlovsky will be eager to come to Cleveland. The same may be true of other QB's.

[Guest Aloysius]

And to go one step further: because we didn't have any picks in the first three rounds, we had the smallest rookie pool of any team (about $1.8M). That, in turn, probably made it more difficult for us to throw large chunks of money at UDFA's.

 

So while our scouts may have been scouring the country for the best possible UDFA's, we probably couldn't throw big money at very many priority FA guys. Perhaps that's why the only "big name" UDFA's we signed were either destined for IR (Eric Young) or extremely raw prospects (Lance Leggett).

 

If that's the case, that may explain why we didn't sign Jameel McClain, Gary Guyton, or any of the interesting LB's available.

 

And it also explains why we expended a draft choice on Alex Hall. Not only, as Russ said, was there no guarantee that we could sign him as a UDFA, but our small rookie cap made it very unlikely that we would win a bidding war with any other interested teams.

[Legacy Fan]

I'm definitely interested on seeing how Bell & Leggett pan out. I havent seen much of Bell on ST's either. The only two jerseys I see down where Cribbs has just made the tackle are Sorensons & Orr's. (Sorenson appears to be a legit safety on running downs). One of the exciting things about getting Quinn into games this season was his chemistry with Steptoe. As Step began emerging more and more as a legitimate slot guy, the timing & vibe between him and Quinn get thrust into the forefront. (Which sickens me that this could have materialized earlier & earlier and we could have avoided the Stallworthless experiment).

 

But, if the draft is a crapshoot, then UDFA are even worse in terms of probability. But limiting our supply with the way our staff only seems to play "veterans" doesn't help either.

[JewDago]

actually, we need stallworth as our no. 2 right now specifically so steptoe can play the slot. if we don't have someone at least marginally viable out there, there's no reason for defenses to account for that side of the field.

[Pumpkin Eater]

meh undrafted FA's are a crap shoot. It's simply the luck of the draw IMO

[Guest Aloysius]

Tonight, Jameel McClain notched two tackles and a sack against Dallas. He got some pressure on another play by using a pretty sweet spin move.

 

Man, I wish we'd signed this guy.

[Guest mz.]

Tonight, Jameel McClain notched two tackles and a sack against Dallas. He got some pressure on another play by using a pretty sweet spin move.

 

Man, I wish we'd signed this guy.

 

The rich getting richer.

 

A free (relatively) 3-4 OLB for the Ravens with a great motor, while we'll struggle to draft a guy with this much upside in round 2 this year. Pffft.

 

[Guest Aloysius]

My thoughts exactly.

[Guest mz.]

Is Brian Cushing the guy? I doubt it. Sintim??? Maybe.

 

I hate watching us fcuk up time after time...

[Guest Aloysius]

Cushing's interesting, but I think he may be better suited playing strongside linebacker in a 4-3. Then again, I said the same thing about Shawn Crable last year, and the Patriots took him in the 3rd Round.

 

Sintim could be the guy, but I haven't seen enough of him to wager a guess. And unfortunately, Virginia (5-7) didn't qualify for a bowl game.

[Guest mz.]

I think the same thing about Cushing. And Crable didn't get much PT this season, so perhaps you were smarter than Pioli on that one.

 

Most likely, we'll be looking at Wimbley and Hall on the outside next season. Having DQ and Curry/Rey in there is something I'd be fine with.

[JewDago]

it's likely, though, that sintim is going to be gone before we pick. do you think this draft class is top-heavy enough that someone will want to trade into the top 10? this seems to be a good draft with impact players at almost every position and a strong, strong crop of LBs.

[Guest mz.]

If you value the pass-rushing of a Sintim over the overall play of a Curry or Maualuga then trading down would be wise.

 

I don't so I wouldn't, but that's just me. I have a feeling that both Curry and Rey are special players.

[Guest Ghoolie]

Are you people really that stupid? Are you?

 

For Pil Sewage to "hit" on ANY good player he would first have to know what the hell he is doing. I told you cool-aid gorgers when they hired our two buffoons...........

 

Phil Sewage brought coffee to Ozzie.

 

RAC broght coffee to Belichik.

 

Lerner is one of the worst owners in the NFL and he has total shit running the team.

 

 

[JewDago]

i don't value a specialist over an all-around player. however, the offseason is my favorite part of football (which may or may not be a product of my team's perennial suckitude) and i like to explore every possibility even if it's not necessarily what i want to do.

 

i'd still like curry, or, if he's picked before we can get him, mays more than sintim or even orakpo, for that matter.

[Guest mz.]

i don't value a specialist over an all-around player. however, the offseason is my favorite part of football (which may or may not be a product of my team's perennial suckitude) and i like to explore every possibility even if it's not necessarily what i want to do.

 

For us, it's only natural. Why do you think there are so many guys who go nuts for the draft here.

 

Half my life has been spent looking at the football season as the offseason and the draft season as the season.

 

[MrFreeze]

Oh and Ghoolie do you remember this little gem from last year?

 

Your own words

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.browns-revolution.com/forum/forum15/2511-2.html

 

 

 

And for anybody who wants proof of how badly Ghoolie flip flopped on this team just look at that message board and his posts from last year, he was sucking Romeo's cock harder than an asian whore at a navy port.

 

 

Now I'm not going to bust his chops too much because this is ghoolie's schtick, but for newbies who don't know ghoolie this is what he does.

 

Last year he squeezed his fatass into the biggest cheerleader outfit he could find and ra-ra'd the shit out of the browns. Now that they're losing they're asses he's going a complete 180.

 

Which I understand his frustration, but he's targeting the wrong guy (thomas) as a target of his ire, which is a two fold purpose because he soothes himself by getting brownies riled up over obvious errors in judgement.

 

 

Take care ghoolie, 2009 is another year.

 

Hahahahaha! Good call, Ghoulie, you da man.

 

If we win our first preseason game next year, make sure someone saves a seat for Ghoulie at the front of the bandwagon.

 

(Thanks for keeping people honest, Inspecta!)