48,000 Murdered since 911

[Chicopee John]

>>Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't create a more sensible immigration system. The one we have is a mess. ..........>>

 

Agreed.

 

In the meantime we need to attack the demand and the supply. If demand were to decrease, so would the supply.

 

The Republicans like the demand side - cheap labor - and the Dems like the supply side - potential votes and an increase in programs.

 

US citizens get squeezed in the meantime.

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Gosh. I thought lib goofs DEMANDED links to CREDITIABLE SOURCES

 

to be able to have their "intelligent conversation".

 

Oh, wait. That was before Obamao.

 

Meanwhile, Heck is playing jitterbug with posting

 

the sources for his disagreements.

 

Stop being a contrarian Heck.

 

Buck up with your own proofs to your own drivel.

 

The last time I called you on this, you posted a long list

 

of links that didn't pertain to your posturing at hand at the time.

[heckofajobbrownie]

>>Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't create a more sensible immigration system. The one we have is a mess. ..........>>

 

Agreed.

 

In the meantime we need to attack the demand and the supply. If demand were to decrease, so would the supply.

 

The Republicans like the demand side - cheap labor - and the Dems like the supply side - potential votes and an increase in programs.

 

US citizens get squeezed in the meantime.

 

John, that's really not it at all. I don't know of one liberal who says, even secretly, that they want more Latinos in the country so they can get their votes and increase government programs. It's just something you guys like to imagine - that we wake up every day trying to figure out how to get people on the government dole. It's sort of laughable. Leave that crap to Cal and Steve.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Then tell me.

 

Or shut up abput it.

Pick one.

 

BTW here's the dictionary

I'm sure yours is better.

 

Main Entry: rac·ism

Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\

Function: noun

Date: 1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

 

 

WSS

 

And here we go again.

 

Don't you remember asking me this very question about two weeks ago? You said it'd be so rich to hear my definition. And then I gave it to you. And you said nothing, because it's basically the same thing as you just posted from the dictionary. Would you like me to find it for you, or do you like wasting my time?

 

Your complete whiff on what it was is plenty telling, though not surprising. You might want to stop digging.

[Mr. T]

Are you trying to spin the argument into race heck?

 

I suppose that you cannot discredit the fact that they are called Illegal Aliens because they have broken the law?

 

Shall we also pull up the definition of Illegal?

 

 

C'mon, have a hand at the fact?

A Real Eye Opener

 

WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?

 

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

 

 

You will find that the cost of having Illegals in the USA to be RIDICULOUS.

 

 

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I also have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts...

 

1 $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

 

Verify at: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...ssuecenters7fd8

 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

 

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

 

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

 

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML

 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/.../01/ldt.01.HTML

 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML <http://transcripts/..;" "http://cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;"

 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

 

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML

 

9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC%20RI%20P.../01/ldt.01.HTML

 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .

 

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML <" href="http://transcriptscnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML%3E" target=_blank>

 

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.

 

Verify at: Homeland Security Report:

 

12. The National policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

 

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportation.PDF

 

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.

 

Verify at: http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm <http://rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E; <" href="http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E" target=_blank>

 

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'

 

Verify at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E; <" href="%20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E; <;? ? " href="http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E;%C2%A0%C2%A0" target=_blank>

[calfoxwc]

You might want to digging Heck

*************************

I don't think this is intelligent conversation you "want" at times, Heck.

 

How about:

 

"none of youse guys be got no idea I am superior haha" ...

 

get to the points, Heck, and back up your points with some LEGIT sources,

 

and stop just sitting back and attacking with marshmallows, and insisting

 

you "hammered" us with your being correctemundo every time.

[Chicopee John]

John, that's really not it at all. I don't know of one liberal who says, even secretly, that they want more Latinos in the country so they can get their votes and increase government programs. It's just something you guys like to imagine - that we wake up every day trying to figure out how to get people on the government dole. It's sort of laughable. Leave that crap to Cal and Steve.

 

Do Dems want more Latinos in the country? That might be an interesting topic. Also the reasons why or why not.

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

I'd put it a different way: I don't think most Democrats care if the people who become citizens are Latino or Asian or European or something else.

 

I don't know anyone who has a special affinity for Latino people. The fact that the American Latino population is growing has more to do with immigration and birth rates.

 

I would say that they also have an interest in seeing that immigrant labor isn't exploited more than it already is.

[Westside Steve]

And here we go again.

 

Don't you remember asking me this very question about two weeks ago? You said it'd be so rich to hear my definition. And then I gave it to you. And you said nothing, because it's basically the same thing as you just posted from the dictionary. Would you like me to find it for you, or do you like wasting my time?

 

Your complete whiff on what it was is plenty telling, though not surprising. You might want to digging.

 

 

Oh I remember.

It was a long time ago.

I just got busy. I'll look back and see.

As I recall it was just typical Heck non responsiveness and straw men but we'll see.

Maybe a few "every" or "always" turds.

 

But there was no whiff, as hilarious as it is to repeat that side splitter.

 

 

But I'd bet that if it were Swedes swarming over the border and creating the same bad situations they'd be on the extermination list.

WSS

 

WSS[/b]

[heckofajobbrownie]

That just made me laugh. And not in a good way. What a waste of time this is.

[Kosar_For_President]

I don't know anyone who has a special affinity for Latino people. The fact that the American Latino population is growing has more to do with immigration and birth rates.

 

Sorry bro, 100% wrong (unless I lost something is translation, lol). Whole campaign strategies are based around the Latino vote.

 

"At one time, I think Hispanics were viewed by the people who were running campaigns as a little bit of a distraction, a little bit of a nuisance," says Jose Villarreal, a San Antonio lawyer and Clinton supporter who was a top adviser to Democrats Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. "Now the community is like an IPO. Everybody wants to invest in it."

 

And

 

Florida Sen. Mel Martinez, general chairman of the Republican National Committee, says there is time for the eventual GOP nominee to recover among Hispanic voters next year — and that doing so is becoming increasingly critical. Hispanics represented 1 in 8 U.S. residents in 2000 but are projected to be 1 in 4 by 2050.

 

Martinez, a Cuban émigré, says Republicans can't win the White House with today's level of Hispanic support. "It would be in my view virtually impossible," he says.

 

LINK

[Pumpkin Eater]

Still not buying that illegals commit fewer crimes. Regardless, they should commit no crimes at all because they should not be here.

[calfoxwc]

Just illegally crossing the border is a crime, therefore, they are predisposed to

 

criminal activity already.

 

http://isupportjamielslaw.com/

[heckofajobbrownie]

Sorry bro, 100% wrong (unless I lost something is translation, lol). Whole campaign strategies are based around the Latino vote.

 

"At one time, I think Hispanics were viewed by the people who were running campaigns as a little bit of a distraction, a little bit of a nuisance," says Jose Villarreal, a San Antonio lawyer and Clinton supporter who was a top adviser to Democrats Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. "Now the community is like an IPO. Everybody wants to invest in it."

 

And

 

Florida Sen. Mel Martinez, general chairman of the Republican National Committee, says there is time for the eventual GOP nominee to recover among Hispanic voters next year — and that doing so is becoming increasingly critical. Hispanics represented 1 in 8 U.S. residents in 2000 but are projected to be 1 in 4 by 2050.

 

Martinez, a Cuban émigré, says Republicans can't win the White House with today's level of Hispanic support. "It would be in my view virtually impossible," he says.

 

LINK

 

Yeah, you're mixing up two different things. John wanted to know if Democrats wanted more Latinos in the country. I said it doesn't matter to people what race the immigrants are. Democrats don't sit around dreaming of more Latinos in the country. Plus, Republicans are certainly free to compete for those votes as well. They're just not very good at convincing minority groups that they've got their best interests in mind. Because they usually don't.

 

I think the fact that campaigns are geared towards certain segments of the population is so obvious and unremarkable it's hardly worth pointing out.

[Chicopee John]

>>I think the fact that campaigns are geared towards certain segments of the population is so obvious and unremarkable it's hardly worth pointing out.>>

 

It's called, "Marketing". There is ALWAYS a target market or a collection of markets.

 

You don't see Malt Liquor ads in Salt Lake City, do you?

 

[Westside Steve]

They're just not very good at convincing minority groups that they've got their best interests in mind. Because they usually don't.

 

Yep.

The uncle that lets kids drink beer stay up late and read his playboys is always the most popular relative.

 

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

I think the fact that campaigns are geared towards certain segments of the population is so obvious and unremarkable it's hardly worth pointing out.

 

Same old Heck. Smug as ever. Do you know you do that? Cause if you do I feel sorry for you and your friend.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yep.

The uncle that lets kids drink beer stay up late and read his playboys is always the most popular relative.

 

WSS

 

Gee, I had no idea you'd say something like this.

 

What they need is some stern talking to, huh? Maybe the ol' bootstraps lecture. That'll set them straight.

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Same old Heck. Smug as ever. Do you know you do that? Cause if you do I feel sorry for you and your friend.

 

Oh, grow up, you f'ing baby.

[Westside Steve]

Gee, I had no idea you'd say something like this.

 

What they need is some stern talking to, huh? Maybe the ol' bootstraps lecture. That'll set them straight.

 

Nah like you say, Heck, it's someone else's fault.

Get the pitchforks and torches.

I wonder if anybody feels insulted by those of you who feel they actually are inferior and incapable of competing.

Think so?

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

Oh, grow up, you f'ing baby.

 

Heck strikes again. Being a smug fag is being grown up, lol. What a loser. You can't even discuss an issue without putting someone down, sounds like playground tactics to me. Too funny. Good stuff thanks for the laugh.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Nah like you say, Heck, it's someone else's fault.

Get the pitchforks and torches.

I wonder if anybody feels insulted by those of you who feel they actually are inferior and incapable of competing.

Think so?

WSS

 

I think less and less of your intellect every single day.

 

Who makes their fingers type that?

[heckofajobbrownie]

Heck strikes again. Being a smug fag is being grown up, lol. What a loser. You can't even discuss an issue without putting someone down, sounds like playground tactics to me. Too funny. Good stuff thanks for the laugh.

 

That was a joke, Kosar.

[Westside Steve]

I think less and less of your intellect every single day.

 

Who makes their fingers type that?

 

Answer:

The guy who's smarter than the one who typed this:

" What they need is some stern talking to, huh? Maybe the ol' bootstraps lecture. That'll set them straight."

 

Go ahead.

Tell me what the Democrats do to promote minorities on an equal basis.

 

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

That was a joke, Kosar.

 

Yea you're about as funny as Cal.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Answer:

The guy who's smarter than the one who typed this:

" What they need is some stern talking to, huh? Maybe the ol' bootstraps lecture. That'll set them straight."

 

Go ahead.

Tell me what the Democrats do to promote minorities on an equal basis.

 

WSS

 

Steve, like we talked about many times before, your views on race relations and policy are stuck in the early 80s.

 

Somewhere between the cartoon of racist Republicans who yearn for the days of segregation and the cartoon of guilt-ridden Democrats who wake up in the morning looking to give minorities handouts so they can buy their votes and make everyone beholden to their government lies this huge spectrum called reality.

 

Let's try to live in that part, shall we?

 

For instance, we could talk about education reform, No Child Left Behind, Pell Grants, student loans, college admissions, community colleges, policing, drug policy and sentencing reform, Head Start, and a whole host of other programs whose overriding goal is to provide American citizens with some level of equal opportunity and safety.

 

But you don't. You prefer the cartoons, like the ones you've typed on the rest of the page. And you've identified the real problem - liberals like me think blacks are inferior, and between that and the guilt and the desire to buy votes, that's why give them all that government cheese.

 

Welcome to 1980. I believe Taxi is on TV. If you'll excuse me.

[calfoxwc]

I guess Heck can't come up with anything that the Dems do or have done to promote minorities

 

on an equal basis.

 

Heck doesn't have a clue, but in libbie land, that means they have all the clues....

 

they just can't read them, and don't know where they are.

 

Clueless Mr. Jellybeans, that's Heck right there.

 

Oh, btw:

 

Yea you're about as funny as Cal. Kosar

[Mr. T]

And you've identified the real problem - liberals like me think blacks are inferior, and between that and the guilt and the desire to buy votes, that's why give them all that government cheese.

 

 

Finally an honest answer.

[Westside Steve]

For instance, we could talk about education reform, No Child Left Behind, Pell Grants, student loans, college admissions, community colleges, policing, drug policy and sentencing reform, Head Start, and a whole host of other programs whose overriding goal is to provide American citizens with some level of equal opportunity and safety.

 

But you don't.

 

No I don't.

Because none of those things should be based on skin color.

And thet's exactly where your point fails.

 

When you use them as bribes for a particular group you are, in fact, racist in the true sense of the word.

When you promote tem as an attempt to repair the unfairness from "those other people" you encourage

 

If you say certain racial groups need extra help then you are in fact saying they are inferior in some way.

 

Real "racism" needs you to think one group is different based on race alone.

I don't think that.

Oh I'm sure there might be small differences but cultural and environmental circumstances override them.

 

It's the us v them you use everyday Heck that I think is bullshit.

 

Somebody doesn't want illegal immigration he must be a racist.

 

"Look Hispanics, these guys who want to obey the law hate you!!!

Vote for us."

 

That's what sucks Heck, and you know it.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

For instance, we could talk about education reform, No Child Left Behind, Pell Grants, student loans, college admissions, community colleges, policing, drug policy and sentencing reform, Head Start, and a whole host of other programs whose overriding goal is to provide American citizens with some level of equal opportunity and safety.

 

But you don't.

 

No I don't.

Because none of those things should be based on skin color.

And thet's exactly where your point fails.

 

When you use them as bribes for a particular group you are, in fact, racist in the true sense of the word.

When you promote tem as an attempt to repair the unfairness from "those other people" you encourage

 

If you say certain racial groups need extra help then you are in fact saying they are inferior in some way.

 

Real "racism" needs you to think one group is different based on race alone.

I don't think that.

Oh I'm sure there might be small differences but cultural and environmental circumstances override them.

 

It's the us v them you use everyday Heck that I think is bullshit.

 

Somebody doesn't want illegal immigration he must be a racist.

 

"Look Hispanics, these guys who want to obey the law hate you!!!

Vote for us."

 

That's what sucks Heck, and you know it.

 

WSS

 

Do you realize how completely dishonest and misleading everything you write is?

 

Once again, none of this is what I think, or what any liberal I know thinks. It's just what you imagine they think. And oh, how angry these ideas you create in your head make you.

 

It's sort of hysterical how I list a bunch of programs that exist, at least in part, to help ensure opportunities for people who are economically disadvantaged, or kids who, by no fault of their own, grow up in high crime area, or areas with shitty schools, or can't afford college, and you instantly go back to the "bribe" nonsense, and how this is all racist, and us vs. them, because it's targeting people of a certain color. Even though I didn't mention targeting people of a certain color, and those programs have nothing to do with color. You just imagine that they do - and they don't - and then you ran with that. It's just laughable.

 

None of the programs I mentioned are targeted to specific minority groups other than the economically disadvantaged. Which ones are you suggesting are racist bribes? Pell Grants? Head Start? Community colleges?

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Then you make up something about how, in the eyes of liberals, someone who doesn't want illegal immigration must be a racist. And then you try and pretend that you don't view people differently because of their race, also laughable. You've written far too many things to try to pass that one off now, my friend.