10 Things That Terrify the Right

[VaporTrail]

Hey guys, I just read an article I found pretty interesting.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/10-things-that-te...gers60369?print

 

It's definitely got a left slant to it, so take it as you may. Anyways, the list goes like this.

 

1) Government Concentration Camps (through FEMA)

2) Moooslims!

3) They're coming to take your guns

4) Article 3 of the Constitution (Feds encroaching on states' rights)

5) Plotting global elites (Amero, North American Union)

6) The decline of married white Christians

7) The graying of culture warriors (generation gap in beliefs on things such as gay marriage, religion, hunting)

8) White minority status

9) The browning of America (growing Asian and Latino voter demographics)

10) Unions

 

I think it's a list that should be critiqued, but also brings up many valid points. I think that 2, 3, 6, 7, and 9 are spot on. I've never heard of 1 and I've always thought that 5 was bullshit that people jumped on after that stupid Zeitgeist movie. Honestly, I think the Amero would be a good way to compete with the Euro, but my knowledge of economics is next to nothing. I guess England's doing just fine without it, why can't we be like them?

 

Anywho, I think there's a treasure trove of discussion we could base around these topics. How does everyone else feel about these claims? Agree? Disagree? Someone just pick a topic and take it away.

[Mr. T]

[Mr. T]

[VaporTrail]

Hey, thanks for the answer, dawg. I'm really busy with lab and whatnot, but I'll get back to you when I get a chance.

[VaporTrail]

This one is B.S. Pure and simple the people worried about concentration camps are the conspiracy theorists that believe the Democrats AND Republicans bow before the Rockefellers and Bilderbergers. The political hyperbole is ramped way WAY up there and the far left is throwing everything they can at the Right in the hopes it sticks.

 

I'd agree with you. I'd never even heard of this until reading the list.

 

In large part the only ones terrified of Muslims in America is the extreme religious. The "fear" if you'd like to call it that is more terrorist attacks. What are terrorists? Extremist Muslims. Put two and two together. The Right takes issue with the "death to America" crowd, the "death to America" leftists spin it into Conservatives cowering in fear everytime they stop at 7-11 for gas.

 

Right, but the extreme religious are one of the Republican party's biggest demographics. If you saw what Sarah Palin's response to Israel murdering people on the flotilla was, I think you'll agree. There's a clear negative disposition that conservatives hold against Muslims. The Israel-Palestine situation just goes to show that. Look at the blind support for Israel that some posters here have. Why do they deserve it? Why shouldn't the Palestinians get the same blind support? Because they were offered land before, but refused it? Palestinians got displaced so Jews could have a place to live. If it happened in your homeland, you'd be just as enraged as they are.

 

I don't think either side deserves blind support, but the flotilla is a microcosm of that whole cf. Did Israel have any right to board those ships in int'l water? I don't think so. I don't think anything that anyone did on the ship deserved lethal force. If people are throwing flashbangs (non-lethal) at riot police, should the riot police just spray the crowd with rounds? Seems like an unnecessary use of force. Why couldn't they have just used gas? That being said, the pro-Palestine group on the boat acted like idiots. When someone brings a full special forces outfit to your boat, don't shoot marbles with a slingshot at the helicopter to make the Israelis think they're being shot at. Don't beat the shit out of the guys with guns. As far as I'm concerned, just about everyone involved in that situation went full Retard. You never go full Retard.

 

Sorry, went way more into the flotilla than I wanted, but I think the right definitely buys into the whole Muslim fear thing. I think you're correct in that it's the religious right that do it, but I think they go hand-in-hand.

 

Read some history books for context. Conservatives aren't terified of losing guns, they are aware historically, not to mention it's common sense, an unarmed population is easy to control and rule over. A well armed population? Not so much. It isn't a secret the current crop of extreme leftists in America want us following the unarmed Euro model, so yes it is an issue.

 

Agreed on all points, but why are they saying that Obama is going to take away our guns? Has he actually made any steps to revoke gun rights?

 

It is actually a decline of married couples, or in the Christian case a decline of married Christians. Race doesn't factor into it. More on that later.

 

Can you go into more detail about this?

 

We're rationalizing ourselves out of a country and of what works. Yes it worries Conservatives the generations coming into being believe in an anything goes moral relativist, entitlement frame of mindlessness.

 

I'd argue that we're rationalizing ourselves out of what worked during the Cold War. McCarthyism should be dead. Godlessness isn't going to kill anyone. Gays aren't mentally ill, and allowing them the same legal benefits as married couples isn't going to destroy the sanctity of anything. The Church shouldn't have to allow it if they don't believe in it, but you shouldn't be barred from those rights on the account of your partner's sex.

 

I skipped these ahead and included them together in an effort to go into some depth on them. The fact of the matter on this is race plays no role on the Conservative right. The only ones concerned with it and constantly harping on it is the left. Especially the extreme left which sees a klansmen on every corner. The truth of the whole matter is one side of the aisle creates policy that racially discriminates, actively courts open racists and is CONSTANTLY bringing up race. It isn't the GOP, Conservatives, Paleoconservatives, Neoconservatives, nor Libertarians.

 

But what about the whole 'terrorist fist jab' fiasco? The left does jump on every opportunity they get to point out how racist the right is, and they often make mountains out of mole hills. That terrorist fist jab thing though? It's just an 'are they serious?' type of moment. Same thing with using Barack's middle name as a disparaging term. The pundits on the right were constantly using it leading up to the election (which ties into #2). Glenn Beck even claimed that Obama has a "deep-seeded hatred for white people." The left isn't just making this trash up to make the right look worse, the voices of the right are actually saying it.

 

Want to know a secret? That isn't even a Conservative issue. Millions of Americans across the political spectrum agree with it. It isn't a racial issue, the only issue is the majority of those doing it come from South America which in the extreme lefts view makes it okay and makes them entitled to a free ride in this country. Which one sounds crazier to you? 1: It isn't okay for the law to be broken, large groups of people are breaking our laws and it needs to be dealt with and stopped or 2: These people are poor 3rd worlders, we should just offer them the same entitlements every other minority group gets thus encouraging widespread illegal immigration?

 

I don't think it is an option A or option B type of thing. Obviously, something needs to be done to curb the number of illegals getting in. But what does sending them back accomplish? Our agricultural economy runs on people that get hired under the table. It's a new form of slave labor. If we kicked them all out, today, the shit that needs to be done wouldn't get done. It's not just agriculture, it's construction, it's wal-mart, pretty much anything that high school students are capable of. I think the only thing that would actually fix the problem would be to help fix Mexico's economic infrastructure, but that's not really a viable option for us.

[calfoxwc]

If you saw what Sarah Palin's response to Israel murdering people on the flotilla was... Vapor

****************

 

I posted the videos. The Israeli commandoes were attacked and beaten with iron bars, etc.,

 

before they ever had to defend themselves.

 

Are you going to be serious about this discussion or not?

 

You are now being like Obamao with siding against that policeman in Boston.

 

An Israeli commando was beaten senseless, and THROWN onto the deck below, ...

 

what part of they probably had his gun don't you understand?

 

Come on, Vapor, you can do better than that.

[VaporTrail]

Cal, and what part do you not understand about boarding a ship in international waters under suspicion of carrying weapons (which there weren't, unless you count the slingshots and pocket knives). They shouldn't have boarded, fully-armed, in the first place.

[calfoxwc]

Of course they should have boarded.

 

They are at war with Hamas, who wants to destroy them.

 

They've been attacked before, with missiles and arms

 

like what they found on another "aid" ship so many years back.

 

It was full of weapons for Hamas.

 

Israel has a right to defend itself via the blockade, much as we did

 

in the confrontation with Russia over missiles in Cuba.

 

Self defense, with excellent reason for a blockade to SIMPLY SCREEN

 

for arms.

 

If those ships have no arms, those supplies still get to the Palestinians.

 

Sounds fair to me.

 

Iron... bars. iron bars. You don't seem to want to admit it.

 

Those iron bars could be supplies to Hamas for uprisings against innocent Israelis, especially

 

children.

 

You okay with that? If not, how to stop those from being supplied?

 

You don't think those things can be supplied by air to avoid the blockade?

[VaporTrail]

You really are suggesting that the iron bars they used against the boarding soldiers could be used against Israelis? Oh, but not all Israelis, but the children!!! Wow.

[calfoxwc]

Well, they WERE USED against the israeli commandoes.

 

ALL the commandoes were doing, were SEARCHING FOR ILLEGAL ARMS.

 

What part of illegal arms to their sworn enemy don't you get?

 

Those iron bars could be used in suicide car bombings.

 

Hamas is warring with Israel over Israel's EXISTENCE.

 

Get over yourself.

 

you're wrong on the issue.

[Paxton]

The biggest problem was that it was a dumb raid: you don't drop soldiers right into the middle of a club-wielding mob. Of course they're going to end up using lethal force.

 

Ironically, if the Israelis had somehow boarded the ship in a more forceful manner, there probably wouldn't have been any or as many casualties. It's the kind of classic f*ckup caused by poor intelligence and ill-advised tactics.

[Alo]

Ironically, if the Israelis had somehow boarded the ship in a more forceful manner, there probably wouldn't have been any or as many casualties. It's the kind of classic f*ckup caused by poor intelligence and the ill-advised tactics.

It's also the kind of failure that happens when you've turned your army into an occupying force focused principally on raiding towns for terrorists/insurgents.

 

Just look at the series of recent screwups, most notably the War in Lebanon. The army's been so focused on Nablus, Jenin, and Ramallah that they couldn't manage to protect their northern border or subdue Hezbollah.

[calfoxwc]

Paxton is right.

 

But, it is also what happens when

 

a military takes cues from politically correct cya'ers

 

and those who don't have any stake in Israel's survival.

 

Yes, it is astounding, perhaps only after the fact, that

 

they tried to board with a little raft jobbie, or tried to

 

board via helicopter downlines.

 

But how else are they going to board?

 

Is the U.N. going to stop Hamas from getting more missiles?

 

Nope.

 

Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?

 

Nope.

 

When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits

 

several hosptials, including a children's hospital...

 

will the U.N. care?

 

Nope.

 

Will liberals care?

 

Nope.

 

You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.

 

But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when

 

all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....

 

and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.

 

You have to wonder why.

[VaporTrail]

Get over yourself.

 

you're wrong on the issue.

 

And I'm the one who needs to get over myself with a comment like that? Dream on, friend.

 

But, it is also what happens when

 

a military takes cues from politically correct cya'ers

 

and those who don't have any stake in Israel's survival.

 

So the reason that this was a tactical failure was because of anti-Zionists? If you truly believe this, you have no concept of how a military functions. Strategically, intercepting vessels bound for Palestine is a good move for Israel. Tactically, this was horrible, their intel apparently sucked for this op, they should've announced that they were going to board, and then done so in broad daylight. I guaran-xxxxing-tee if they had done it that way, no one would have died. Instead, they sneak up on them before the sun comes up, instantly putting a bunch of people that hate Israel on the defensive. They don't know why they're being boarded, just that it's being done forcibly.

 

Had there been missiles and weaponry on the ship, this whole thing would be a different story, and I'd have supported the Israelis' decision to board. But there were no weapons. They had marbles and f*cking pocket knives.

 

Is the U.N. going to stop Hamas from getting more missiles?

 

Nope.

 

I don't see how that's relevant to the situation considering how many missiles were found on board.

 

Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?

 

Nope.

 

To starve out the Palestinians? To make them live like prisoners? I'd hope not.

 

When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits

 

several hosptials, including a children's hospital...

 

will the U.N. care?

Irrelevant.

 

You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.

 

Yes, you do. Just not lately. It's about time that the other side of the story is getting some coverage.

 

But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when

 

all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....

 

and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.

 

You have to wonder why.

 

And we have to wonder why you still blindly support anything with the star of david on it, while at the same time blindly renouncing anything with a moon.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I think most Americans support Israel because of the genocide in WW2. I think that most people dislike Muslims because of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. You can say that not all Muslims support them, but I think they really do. I remember the party in the streets in Palestine after 9/11.

[VaporTrail]

That's a very honest answer diehard. But you really think ALL muslims supported 9/11?

 

I think it's insane that the descendants of people that suffered the worst thing humanity has ever accomplished is responsible for such rampant human rights abuses today.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Part two...

 

 

 

How exactly is that trash? Ever read Obamas books? The ideology of the "church" that he's belonged to for two decades? Obama has disparaged his own grandmother with racial statements, wrote books on his blackness and how he refused to associate with whites, belongs to a hate group affiliated with the Nation of Islam, pardoned Black Panthers caught on film intimidating white voters while hurling racial slurs, turned around and gave them jobs, appointed open racist Van Jones into a position of power, appointed an inept, unqualified racist to the Supreme Court, stipulated billions of dollars in stimulus money was offlimits to whites, chided a white police officer for doing his job, hell he had racists making racist comments at his inauguration.

 

Need I go on? Look around at his close associates, and his wife. The ones that aren't extreme communists, terrorists or socialists are all racist. It isn't exactly a secret where he falls on the spectrum. Glen Beck isn't in the wrong for pointing it out.

 

The irony is the left denies it, yet if it were reversed? Let's take for example... Sven Braun. Sven here has written two books on his whiteness and how he avoided "coloreds" his entire life. Sven belongs to the Aryan Church of Christ. The A.C.C. teaches that white gentiles are the true Israelites and Gods chosen. Svens wife is a blonde haired blue eyed German woman who has attended David Duke rallies and written dissertations on blacks being societies problem. All of Svens friends are caucasians and belong to the A.C.C. or affiliates. Let's say Sven is elected to run a corporation. His first appointee is in HR, another white person who was taking heat at their prior job for discriminating against minority candidates. His second appointee is let's say a quality control czar, who happens to belong to the KKK. Let's say he also hired a couple skinheads charged recently for a "hate crime." Now as President of the corporation he is in charge of their money and donations. All of his donations are to organizations geared towards "white interests."

 

The question is, would you call him a racist? Of course you would. Would it be out of line to mention the fact by EVERY appearance he has a deep seated hatred of non-whites? Would it be "trash" to say so? Of course not. Society would be up in arms over it. Yet when it's the opposite are we not supposed to talk about it? Pretend it isn't there? The truth is it is there. It exists. The truth is you don't write racist books, associate with racists, belong to a hate group and you don't demean and discriminate against others if there ISN'T a racial hatred there.

 

Take it from me, 6 million of my people were slaughtered due to racism and the awareness that exists? At least in my circles is ingrained from birth. The Obama situation is no different then the low level klansmen who gets caught, except people will turn a blind eye to different KINDS of racism.

 

 

 

 

 

It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.

 

 

 

 

Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.

 

That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.

 

 

 

 

The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.

 

 

 

 

The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.

 

This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.

 

 

Outstanding post.

[calfoxwc]

So the reason that this was a tactical failure was because of anti-Zionists? If you truly believe this, you have no concept of how a military functions. Strategically, intercepting vessels bound for Palestine is a good move for Israel. Tactically, this was horrible, their intel apparently sucked for this op, they should've announced that they were going to board, and then done so in broad daylight. I guaran-xxxxing-tee if they had done it that way, no one would have died. Instead, they sneak up on them before the sun comes up, instantly putting a bunch of people that hate Israel on the defensive. They don't know why they're being boarded, just that it's being done forcibly.

 

Had there been missiles and weaponry on the ship, this whole thing would be a different story, and I'd have supported the Israelis' decision to board. But there were no weapons. They had marbles and f*cking pocket knives. Vapor

**************************************

iron bars. The length to be used in palestinian/Hamas car bombings and riots. don't be a goof. You saw the iron bars used as weapons

on the ship. You think they had time to figure out to go find some boxes and maybe find some iron bars?

 

That was premeditated assualt, Vapor.

***********************************************

I don't see how that's relevant to the situation considering how many missiles were found on board. Vapor

**********************************************

You "don't see" ? Or don't WANT to see?

 

Read this, and you will see. btw, those ships don't travel straight through in daytime a lot. They won't be there

to be boarded in the daytime. It's easier to be spotted in the daytime.

 

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/11/04/90180.htmlShip's cargo included Katyusha rockets, anti-tank missilesIsrael seizes Hezbollah-bound Iranian weapons

Long range firepower

Rocket capable of reaching Tel Aviv

 

Naval commandos boarded the ship and the vessel was taken to an Israeli port (File) OCCUPIED JERUSALEM (Agencies)Israeli naval commandos have boarded a ship carrying Iranian-supplied rockets destined for Lebanon's Hezbollah group and taken the vessel to an Israeli port, the government said on Wednesday.Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai told Army Radio that Katyusha rockets were found on the Antigua-flagged Francop, which the military said was intercepted overnight in the Mediterranean Sea, 100 miles (160 km) from Israel. It was brought to Ashdod, south of Tel Aviv."Stopping the Iranian weapons ship was an important achievement for the Israel Defence Forces and the state of Israel," President Shimon Peres said in a statement." Stopping the Iranian weapons ship was an important achievement for the Israel Defence Forces and the state of Israel "

President Shimon PeresThe 8,622 deadweight ton ship was due to have arrived on Nov. 1 at the Egyptian port of Damietta and was last seen on Oct. 31 in the Mediterranean sea between Lebanon and Cyprus, according to AISLive ship tracking data on Reuters.The vessel is owned by German shipping company Reederei Gerd Bartels, based near the port of Hamburg. Asked to comment, Mirko Bartels of the private shipping firm told Reuters: "We have nothing to say."An official with Cyprus-based United Feeder Services told Reuters it had acted as the time charterer and carrier for the Francop, tasked with loading and discharging the vessel.

*************************************

I said:

 

Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?

Nope.

 

You said:

 

To starve out the Palestinians? To make them live like prisoners? I'd hope not.

 

don't be ridiculous. The necessary food is automatically forwarded on to the Palestinians, if Hamas will allow them to have it.

More likely, the food on those ships goes to Hamas' soldiers.

******************************************

When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits

 

several hosptials, including a children's hospital...

 

will the U.N. care?

Irrelevant.

 

It is NOT irrevelant at all. Israel MUST act to defend itself, because the UN doesn't get anything out of

supporting Israel, and simply doesn't care then.

THAT is why Israel must do the blockade. It is a SEARCH FOR WEAPONS, ETC. BLOCKADE,THEY LET FOOD GO ON THROUGH,STOP PARROTING THE ANTI-ISRAELI PROPAGANDA !

************************

You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.

 

Yes, you do. Just not lately. It's about time that the other side of the story is getting some coverage.

 

Not from the UN you don't. I was talkin about the UN not helping Israel be secure.

***********************

 

But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when

 

all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....

 

and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.

 

You have to wonder why.

 

And we have to wonder why you still blindly support anything with the star of david on it, while at the same time blindly renouncing anything with a moon.

 

******************

 

That's a dumb cheap shot. Israel MUST stop weapons being shipped into Gaza. That is what they are doing, along with

supplies that could also be used by Hamas to solidify their positions, etc.

 

It has nothing to do with what is on their flags.

 

But, since you want to smart off, tell me if you think Israel sends suicide bombers into Gaza.

 

tell me one time when Israel told anybody that they will wipe another country off the map.

 

Tell me if Israel send Iranian missiles flying wantonly into Gaza to try to kill Palestinians.

 

Tell me when Israel ever initiated a war with any other country.

 

Tell me when Israel commandoes killed Olympians of another country, simply because they were Muslim.

 

tell me when Israel took over a cruise ship, and killed and dumped a handicapped Muslim in a wheelchair overboard

in front of his wife and tv cameras.

 

Tell me when Israelis hijacked a Muslim airplane, took Huslims hostage.

 

You CAN'T. But I can prove that all the above DID take place, via Muslim or Arabic militants.

 

 

 

[VaporTrail]

iron bars. The length to be used in palestinian/Hamas car bombings and riots. don't be a goof. You saw the iron bars used as weapons

on the ship. You think they had time to figure out to go find some boxes and maybe find some iron bars?

 

That was premeditated assualt, Vapor.

 

Okay, that's circumstantial evidence. You do realize that marbles and ball bearings and nails can be used in bombs as well? There is no set length for the crap they put in bombs, they use what they have.

 

I think you waive the right to not get your ass beat when you jump on someone's ship unannounced with weapons in hand. Was it assault? Maybe. The Israelis should've made their intentions known. If they were gonna do this shit correctly, they'd have flashbanged the shit out of the deck so that everyone would be momentarily incapacitated when they fastroped.

 

You "don't see" ? Or don't WANT to see?

 

I'm very aware that missiles get smuggled into Palestine. There were no missiles on this boat, that is the difference.

 

don't be ridiculous. The necessary food is automatically forwarded on to the Palestinians, if Hamas will allow them to have it.

More likely, the food on those ships goes to Hamas' soldiers.

 

You're the one being ridiculous. You're telling me with a straight face that Hamas is more responsible for preventing Palestinian civilians from getting food and water than the Israeli government is.

 

It is NOT irrevelant at all. Israel MUST act to defend itself, because the UN doesn't get anything out of

supporting Israel, and simply doesn't care then.

THAT is why Israel must do the blockade. It is a SEARCH FOR WEAPONS, ETC. BLOCKADE,THEY LET FOOD GO ON THROUGH,STOP PARROTING THE ANTI-ISRAELI PROPAGANDA

 

It is irrelevant to how this situation was handled. Should the Israelis check ships? For their sake, yes. Should they do it like this? Not at all. I understand that they want to minimize their own troops' endangerment which is why they did it at night, but the tactical aspect of it was completely fubar. You don't do this. If you're going to take on a ship of peace activists, do it during the day. If you're going to board them at night, do it right. Flashbangs, CS (probably not in the cabins, but on the deck, fine). Run through the ship, scare the shit out of everyone on it, and check for weapons. If there are no weapons, get the xxxx out. Instead, they let an entire deck stare at them while wondering why they're being boarded, then drop soldiers onto a bunch of scared, pissed off Palestinians. Shocking that they didn't react to it very well.

 

Israel MUST stop weapons being shipped into Gaza. That is what they are doing, along with

supplies that could also be used by Hamas to solidify their positions, etc.

 

Okay, good, you can see the big picture, that's what they're trying to do, but when that boat was boarded, that was NOT what they did. They boarded a vessel with nothing illegal on it in international waters.

 

But, since you want to smart off, tell me if you think Israel sends suicide bombers into Gaza.tell me one time when Israel told anybody that they will wipe another country off the map.

 

Tell me if Israel send Iranian missiles flying wantonly into Gaza to try to kill Palestinians.

 

Tell me when Israel ever initiated a war with any other country.

 

Tell me when Israel commandoes killed Olympians of another country, simply because they were Muslim.

 

tell me when Israel took over a cruise ship, and killed and dumped a handicapped Muslim in a wheelchair overboard

in front of his wife and tv cameras.

 

Tell me when Israelis hijacked a Muslim airplane, took Huslims hostage.

 

If we weren't paying for their AH-1's and M1A1's, perhaps they would be. While the Israelis don't specifically target civilians, they do use WP in populated areas. That's a big no-no. They do target the morale of the civilian population when they bulldoze homes. They abuse human rights. Israel doesn't deserve our blind support nor our tax dollars.

[We need Tom Tupa]

It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.

 

Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.

 

That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.

 

The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.

 

The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.

 

This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.

Let me make sure I have this straight:

 

It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?

[Chicopee John]

It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?

 

They are not the same jobs, Tupe. Come on. Your statement or scenario isn't even close to the same thing.

 

[VaporTrail]

I disagree, we have open communist meetings in contemporary America and communists such as Van Jones being appointed into positions of influence and authority. A lack of McCarthy style diligence is one of the reasons we're in the mess that we are in. We became complacent of the communist thread and look at us now, it's being taught in schools as a good thing.

 

I'd agree that Communism is bad, but socialism isn't inherently evil. I think that many necessities should be socialized, and lots of young people believe this, too. If people want to compete with the government, let em. Everything else is up to capitalism. And who gives a shit if there are open communist meetings? You're free to believe in whatever economic system you want to.

 

I don't disagree. Unfortunately there IS an in between that is likely to be ignored. On the one hand you have Churches that are against it period, on the flipside groups who will only accept the Gov't forcing Churches to marry gays. This is one of those instances where states rights should come into play and is a good testament to the effectiveness of states rights v.s. Federal regulation.

 

I've never heard of people that think churches should be forced to marry gays. Only the arguments that they should have the same legal benefits. I think that forcing churches to marry gays is just as ridiculous as not wanting them to have the legal benefits.

 

I am unsure of what fist jab you mean. I've honestly never heard of that, what happened? Onto the middle name, it's a matter of perspective. For 8 years the left has insisted on referring to President Bush as "Dubya." The Hussein stuff was much in the same vein. Am I saying that makes it right? Not at all, honestly I don't care about it and it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.D._Hill

Some Fox News anchorwoman called a fist bump between Obama and Michelle a 'terrorist fist jab.' Fox News shortly thereafter canceled her show after it didn't go along so well. And playing off of someone's stupidity (dubya) is not the same thing as the race card.

 

 

Part two...

 

 

 

How exactly is that trash? Ever read Obamas books? The ideology of the "church" that he's belonged to for two decades? Obama has disparaged his own grandmother with racial statements, wrote books on his blackness and how he refused to associate with whites, belongs to a hate group affiliated with the Nation of Islam, pardoned Black Panthers caught on film intimidating white voters while hurling racial slurs, turned around and gave them jobs, appointed open racist Van Jones into a position of power, appointed an inept, unqualified racist to the Supreme Court, stipulated billions of dollars in stimulus money was offlimits to whites, chided a white police officer for doing his job, hell he had racists making racist comments at his inauguration.

 

Need I go on? Look around at his close associates, and his wife. The ones that aren't extreme communists, terrorists or socialists are all racist. It isn't exactly a secret where he falls on the spectrum. Glen Beck isn't in the wrong for pointing it out.

 

...

 

I've actually not read any of his books. Would you recommend them? Do you think I'd draw the same conclusions that you did? His statement on the police officer was idiotic.

 

]It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.

 

Hey, that's capitalism at its best. I think the problem's deeper than just stop the Mexicans from jumping the fence.

 

Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.

 

That's a really good idea. Our prisons are overcrowded, too. We should bring that shit back. Would replacing Mexicans with inmates, in your opinion, yield the same output?

 

That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.

 

How? So long as Mexicans are coming in, greedy people (not only farmers, but construction/walmart/etc.) will be paying them to do work for cheap. So long as greedy bastards are offering illegal money, but more than can be made in Mexico, they'll keep coming.

 

The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.

 

Right, but we can't put the blame on only them. Like you said, they have no other options and next to nothing to lose by coming here for work. Both sides of the issue need to be addressed. I think the focus should be more on the people that give them incentive to come here.

 

The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.

 

I think 1 and 2 are going to be extremely difficult to do. For every one that you deport, 5 more cross. The fence, I just can't see it realistically working. I mean, honestly, short of building a couple of fences and landmining the shit out of the land in between them, can you honestly see it working? To climb a 10 foot fence, you need an 11 foot ladder, same goes for however deep they dig it. And while I see the fence creating jobs for it to be built, do you know how much it would cost to have a fence that actually works? You'd have to have elevated guard posts every couple hundred yards, sonar systems to detect diggers, all sorts of nonlethal technologies to stop would-be jumpers. It just seems like the cost of it would be astronomical. I think that fining the people that pay illegals is the easiest way to go about it. I mean, it's a start anyways. I wouldn't mind a fence nor kicking them out, but that'd be very tough to do.

[We need Tom Tupa]

If by "about right" you mean positively incorrect, then yes, it is. By all means show me WHERE I stated that. ALL that I stated is a historical fact in response to the "we NEED illegals from 3rd world countries here, someones gotta farm our food." Maybe going by that logic we should just hop back into the slave trade, eh? Afterall, someone has to do it, might as well have it done for free, right? Didn't think so.

I'm not supposed to read this as being approving of the use of "chain-gangs"?

Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.

 

[Westside Steve]

Let me make sure I have this straight:

 

It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?

 

 

In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?

Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?

 

WSS

[We need Tom Tupa]

In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?

Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?

 

WSS

Ive got no problem with inmates working. I'm just confused by someone complaining about "criminals" taking American jobs and then complaining that "Leftists" took away the chain gangs.

[Westside Steve]

Ive got no problem with inmates working. I'm just confused by someone complaining about "criminals" taking American jobs and then complaining that "Leftists" took away the chain gangs.

 

OK. Understood.

WSS