Clay Matthews HOF

[Browns57]

Clay Matthews: Overdue for NFL Hall of Fame Induction

by Dustin Haley Correspondent Written on July 24, 2008

 

The National Football League Hall of Fame; A fraternity reserved for the most idolized, respected, and legendary athletes to play in the National Football League. Names include Johnny Unitas, Jim Otto, Lou Groza, Troy Aikman, Barry Sanders, Dick Butkus, and Reggie White.

 

The best of the best, all of the inducted players showed exemplary intelligence, skill, and discipline both on and off the field (mostly…<cough>… Michael Irvin…<sniff>).

 

The 2008 Hall of Fame inductees are DE Fred Dean, CB Darrell Green, WR Art Monk, CB Emmitt Thomas, LB Andre Tippett, and T Gary Zimmerman. As expected, the election committee once again filled the Hall with some of the greatest names to pass through the league.

 

However, I feel, and not to take away from the illustrious careers of the aforementioned, that one stand out player is being continuously over looked. He is LB Clay Matthews.

 

Matthews played 19 seasons with the Cleveland Browns and Atlanta Falcons organizations, 16 of which with the prior. Being amongst the leaders of the seasons played category of Cleveland's history books, he was second to Lou "The Toe" Groza's 17 seasons with the franchise. Astoundingly, he played two hundred seventy eight games in the NFL ranking him twelfth all-time.

 

The All-American USC prospect was the first linebacker drafted in 1978 as the No. 12 overall pick. A versatile young OLB, though listed as a ROLB, could play both sides of the field, and he immediately found himself within the defensive rotation. Clay proved that he was prepared for the pro game and was willing to contribute.

 

In his first four seasons (1978 – 1981) he played in 61 games, starting in over three quarters of them, and in the process put up impressive stats. Over that span, he had 348 tackles, five fumble recoveries, and five interceptions. He also solidified himself as a leader and cornerstone of Cleveland's defense for seasons to come.

 

In week one of the 1982 season, Clay went down with a fractured ankle in a 21-7 win in Seattle against the Seahawks, with mere seconds left in the game. He would not play the rest of the season and would be replaced by future Browns' assistant coach and eventual nemesis, Bill Cowher. I believe, with his break-out season coming in 1981, missing this season to injury has negatively affected his HOF status, statistically speaking.

 

As the seasons progressed, Matthews established himself as a premier linebacker in the NFL. Opposing teams respected his ability to rally teammates, consistent tackling, and his stellar pass rushing. His play would earn him four Pro Bowl appearances in 1985, 1987, 1988, and 1989.

 

Although statistically these were great seasons, they certainly were not his best. Cleveland's play overall had improved under coach Marty Schottenheimer and they had made the playoffs in all of those years, thus receiving more attention.

 

In 1984, arguably his best season, Matthews's recorded 126 tackles, 12 sacks, three forced fumbles, and would start all 16 games. Browns fans will tell you that for the most part, as is with most his career, he was playing under the radar on a mediocre at best defense. The defense's highlight of the season came when the Browns managed 11 sacks on Atlanta quarterback Steve Bartkowski.

 

One of Clay's performances that I'm old enough to remember came on January 8, 1990, in the divisional playoff game against the Buffalo Bills. Buffalo was supposed to be the better team, and quarterback Jim Kelly wanted to prove why, throwing for 405 yards and four touchdowns. The Browns had the lead in the middle of the fourth quarter, 34 to 24.

 

Kelly's last touchdown pass came on a short three yard pass to Thurman Thomas, but Buffalo would miss the ensuing extra point, forcing the Bills to get in the end zone on their last drive attempt.

 

We Browns fans held our breath as Kelly nearly had a fifth touchdown pass, but it was dropped by the receiver. With three seconds left in the game, Kelly fired another shot towards pay dirt, but Matthews made an excellent read and break to the ball, intercepting it and sending the Browns to the AFC Championship Game.

 

At the end of his career, Clay had recorded 1,561 tackles, 16 interceptions, 27 forced fumbles, 14 fumble recoveries, and two defensive touchdowns as regular season stats. He currently holds Browns' records for most consecutive seasons, most games, and is in the top ten with 76 and a half regular and post season sacks.

 

In closing, we all know that Clay will eventually join his brother Bruce, a 2007 inductee at OL, at the Hall. Eventually the committee will realize that he was too great of a player who spent his career playing for lower echelon teams.

 

I would just hate to see him inducted 30 years after he retired, or worse yet, when he's incapable of enjoying the award. I would enjoy some discussion on this article on whether or not you agree or disagree with me, or maybe bring up some other players who deserve to be in the HOF that haven't yet been inducted.

[Browns57]

I know the article is two years old but it is a slow time of the year. I wanted to get everyone thoughts on my favorite Browns player of all time. Do you think he belongs in the HOF? Do you think he will get in? If so when? I know it might be tough to be objective for a bunch of homers but let's try.

[NewEraDawg]

I know the article is two years old but it is a slow time of the year. I wanted to get everyone thoughts on my favorite Browns player of all time. Do you think he belongs in the HOF? Do you think he will get in? If so when? I know it might be tough to be objective for a bunch of homers but let's try.

 

Yes I believe he deserves to be in the hall . Wish I had a vote

[ballpeen]

I know the article is two years old but it is a slow time of the year. I wanted to get everyone thoughts on my favorite Browns player of all time. Do you think he belongs in the HOF? Do you think he will get in? If so when? I know it might be tough to be objective for a bunch of homers but let's try.

 

 

 

 

not hard to be objective.

 

 

 

I loved Clay for everything he did.....but games played shouldn't be a factor.

 

 

 

IMO he is just a little shy of being a HOF player.

 

 

 

He was good, but he wasn't that good.

 

[Browns57]

For any of you who may not know what the process is for getting into the HOF here it is. I figure most of you do but I thought I would add it just in case. And yes I pulled it from Wikipedia. LOL

 

Selection process

Board of Selectors

Enshrinees are selected by a 44-person committee, largely made up of sportswriters, officially known as the Board of Selectors.^[5]Usually, the representative is a beat writer for the major newspaper in that city, although this is not always the case; for instance, the Atlanta Falcons are represented by ESPN.com senior writer Len Pasquarelli (who lives in Atlanta and formerly wrote for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution), and the Jacksonville Jaguars are represented by WJXT sports director Sam Kouvaris.

 

There are also eleven at-large delegates (usually cities that lose NFL teams keep representation on the board; Los Angeles is the only current city to have lost an NFL team and not been granted an expansion team), and one representative from the Pro Football Writers Association. Except for the PFWA representative, who is appointed to a two-year term, all other appointments are open-ended and terminated only by death, retirement, or resignation.

 

 

Voting procedure

To be eligible for the nominating process, a player must have been retired at least five years, and as of 2007, a coach must be retired for five years. Any other contributor such as a team owner or executive can be voted in at any time.^[6]

 

Fans may nominate any player, coach or contributor by simply writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame via letter or email. The Selection Committee is then polled three times by mail to eventually narrow the list to 25 semifinalists: once in March, one in September, and one in October. In November, the committee then selects 15 finalists by mail balloting.Nine members of the Selection Committee also serve as a subcommittee known as the Seniors Committee to screen candidates who finished their careers 25 or more years prior.^[6] The Seniors Committee then adds two finalists from prior to the modern era, making a final ballot of 17.

 

The Selection Committee then meets the day before each Super Bowl game to elect a new class. To be elected, a finalist must receive at least 80 percent support from the Board, with at least four, but no more than seven, candidates being elected annually. If less than four candidates get 80 percent of the vote, then the top four vote-getters will get in that year. If more than seven get 80 percent, then only the top seven vote-getters will be inducted.

 

 

[roach]

At the risk of sounding like a big homer, i think he ought to join his brother in the HOF. Bruce was a no-brainer. Clay is a fringe candidate, but has the credentials. i loved that guy.

[rich4eagle]

I know the article is two years old but it is a slow time of the year. I wanted to get everyone thoughts on my favorite Browns player of all time. Do you think he belongs in the HOF? Do you think he will get in? If so when? I know it might be tough to be objective for a bunch of homers but let's try.

 

gee who woulda guessed Browns57 had Clay Matthews as his favorite Brown ever. He will have a hard time making the HOF because he never was a standout in in playoffs and the Browns fizzled when he was best. He surely deserves the HOF because he was indeed one of the greatest Browns player ever and deserves th HOF.......for mutliple reasons

[ballpeen]

At the risk of sounding like a big homer, i think he ought to join his brother in the HOF. Bruce was a no-brainer. Clay is a fringe candidate, but has the credentials. i loved that guy.

 

 

 

it's the fringe that is going to hurt.....or keep him out a while longer

 

[Browns57]

it's the fringe that is going to hurt.....or keep him out a while longer

 

I have struggled with this for years myself. I want him in, I think he will get in, but I think he might be dead or close to it before it happens. I nominated him for the HOF after his 5 years of retirement, as I am sure many others did. I was hoping that the longevity of his career and his four pro bowls would give him enough. I still think it will someday. He didn't get in with his brother and that was a big blow. But his brother did lobby for him in his speech wish I thought was really cool and he continues to do so when the opportunity arises.

 

After the rookie campaign his son turned in they may go in together someday. And I would argue that he should have been defensive rookie of the year last year. If he has the family genes to stay healthy then watch the f out because someday when we go to Canton there will be at least three Matthews in there. And actually I think there may be a fourth out there playing football as well.

[Bob806]

I know the article is two years old but it is a slow time of the year. I wanted to get everyone thoughts on my favorite Browns player of all time. Do you think he belongs in the HOF? Do you think he will get in? If so when? I know it might be tough to be objective for a bunch of homers but let's try.

 

Yes, he is indeed worthy of the HOF, but I doubt he ever gets in. I have never understood why Clay & Hanford Dixon don't get their kudos by the HOF nominating committee.

 

Geez, Kevin Greene is in the HOF, and he wasn't anything special IMHO. Jim Kelly was probably the 4th best QB in the AFC when he played, and he was a first-ballot HOFer.

 

I'm right there with you Browns57.

 

 

[Canton Mike]

I will compare Clay's style of play to another great Brown...Jerry Sherk. Both should be in the Hall of Fame, period.

Mike

[rich4eagle]

Yes, he is indeed worthy of the HOF, but I doubt he ever gets in. I have never understood why Clay & Hanford Dixon don't get their kudos by the HOF nominating committee.

 

Geez, Kevin Greene is in the HOF, and he wasn't anything special IMHO. Jim Kelly was probably the 4th best QB in the AFC when he played, and he was a first-ballot HOFer.

 

I'm right there with you Browns57.

 

Hanford Dixon is not a HOF candidate.............just not enough "stuff"

[rich4eagle]

I will compare Clay's style of play to another great Brown...Jerry Sherk. Both should be in the Hall of Fame, period.

Mike

 

Actually, Sherk deserves it more than Clay

[Bob806]

Hanford Dixon is not a HOF candidate.............just not enough "stuff"

 

He didn't have a lot of INTs because opponents weren't throwing to his man very often. He was a true "shut down" corner for many seasons, and as you know, we didn't exactly have a great pass rush during his time. I know his last year as a Brown he lost it, and got picked on, but that shouldn't overshadow a great career.

[dencyguy]

I've always had a lot of love for Clay, but while I wouldn't complain if he made it into the HoF, I don't know if I would vote for him, either. To compare him with Kevin Greene--who was brought up earlier in the thread--Matthews had 69.5 sacks for his career vs. 160 for Greene. Matthews went to the Pro Bowl four times, Greene went five. Matthews was never an All-Pro, while Greene was one three times. Matthews had more interceptions (sixteen to five), but that's about it.

 

Looking at the numbers made me realize two things: first, Kevin Greene was a lot better than I remember, and second, like Ballpeen said, longevity doesn't equal greatness (just ask the BBWAA guys who are praying that Jamie Moyer retires before getting to 300 wins so that they can not vote for him and not look like tools). Matthews was a good player, at times a very good one. But a Hall of Famer? He just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. He played forever, but his numbers were good but not great, and while I'd have to think about it, I don't know how many seasons I would put him in the top four or five players at his position.

 

Dennis

[Browns57]

Good post but I actually would argue that longevity does count for something. If you are good enough to play for two teams as a starter for the most part for that long then that means not neccesarily that you are HOF caliber but that you are something special. What is the average NFL career for a linebacker. I am guessing 6-8 years tops. Just a guess. if anyone knows let us know.

[ballpeen]

No doubt it means something. i don't want to diminish what the guy was.

 

 

 

I just think he is a bit shy as compared to guys like Butkus, Bell,Lambert,Taylor.

 

 

I hope he gets in....I just don't think he will unless it is by some old timer committee.

 

 

If it was a grading scale where 98 makes you a no brainer and 90 makes you are pretty darn good bet, Clay is one of those 88 guys who's going to get consideration but probably fall a few votes shot and fall though the cracks.

 

 

[The Gipper]

not hard to be objective.

 

 

 

I loved Clay for everything he did.....but games played shouldn't be a factor.

 

 

 

IMO he is just a little shy of being a HOF player.

 

 

 

He was good, but he wasn't that good.

 

Arguable, but I would also argue that there are those in the HOF that were perhaps even contemporaries of Clay that were no better than him. Andre Tippet? Maybe a couple of others.

[Bob806]

No doubt it means something. i don't want to diminish what the guy was.

 

I just think he is a bit shy as compared to guys like Butkus, Bell,Lambert,Taylor.

 

I hope he gets in....I just don't think he will unless it is by some old timer committee.

 

If it was a grading scale where 98 makes you a no brainer and 90 makes you are pretty darn good bet, Clay is one of those 88 guys who's going to get consideration but probably fall a few votes shot and fall though the cracks.

 

I agree with you on the 4 LBs you mentioned/compared him to (those guys are clearly exceptional). I hate the Steelers with a passion, but I still say Lambert was the best I ever saw. I also think you're right on with the call on the old-timer committee.

 

That's why I opted for the Kevin Greene comparison for Clay. Yes, somebody pointed out Greene's stats compared to Clay, and Clay falls short on Greene's numbers....but Clay was IMHO clearly a more complete football player...Greene was an edge-rush specialist (and bounced around to several teams).

[The Gipper]

gee who woulda guessed Browns57 had Clay Matthews as his favorite Brown ever. He will have a hard time making the HOF because he never was a standout in in playoffs and the Browns fizzled when he was best. He surely deserves the HOF because he was indeed one of the greatest Browns player ever and deserves th HOF.......for mutliple reasons

 

Some guys that make the HOF do so simply because they were on a winning team, while it is certainly possible that players that were on losing or mediocre teams do not make it even though, perhaps they had superior careers. Do you not think for a moment say, that if the Browns had won a couple of Super Bowls during the 80s that Clay Mathews would not be in the HOF? Or Dixon? Almost surely they would, yet, in reality I doubt that their careers would have been one bit better.

[The Gipper]

I've always had a lot of love for Clay, but while I wouldn't complain if he made it into the HoF, I don't know if I would vote for him, either. To compare him with Kevin Greene--who was brought up earlier in the thread--Matthews had 69.5 sacks for his career vs. 160 for Greene. Matthews went to the Pro Bowl four times, Greene went five. Matthews was never an All-Pro, while Greene was one three times. Matthews had more interceptions (sixteen to five), but that's about it.

 

Looking at the numbers made me realize two things: first, Kevin Greene was a lot better than I remember, and second, like Ballpeen said, longevity doesn't equal greatness (just ask the BBWAA guys who are praying that Jamie Moyer retires before getting to 300 wins so that they can not vote for him and not look like tools). Matthews was a good player, at times a very good one. But a Hall of Famer? He just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. He played forever, but his numbers were good but not great, and while I'd have to think about it, I don't know how many seasons I would put him in the top four or five players at his position.

 

Dennis

 

My recollection is that Kevin Greene was really a different sort of animal to Clay Mathews. In essence, Greene played the pass rush defensive end position rather than the true outside linebacker position. Greene almost exclusively had pass rush duties, where Mathews was more often not rushing the passer except in blitz situations. How often did Greene have pass coverage duties? Rarely. Mathews: primarily.

That is what I recall. So, they may be a bit of apples and oranges.

[The Gipper]

No doubt it means something. i don't want to diminish what the guy was.

 

 

 

I just think he is a bit shy as compared to guys like Butkus, Bell,Lambert,Taylor.

 

 

I hope he gets in....I just don't think he will unless it is by some old timer committee.

 

 

If it was a grading scale where 98 makes you a no brainer and 90 makes you are pretty darn good bet, Clay is one of those 88 guys who's going to get consideration but probably fall a few votes shot and fall though the cracks.

 

No doubt he would not be compared to the guys you mention, but, like I said, I don't consider that he necessarily should take a back seat to the likes of Ricky Jackson who will be inducted this year, or Andre Tippet, or Derrick Thomas, or Dave Wilcox....guys that played a similar position to CM.

[The Gipper]

I agree with you on the 4 LBs you mentioned/compared him to (those guys are clearly exceptional). I hate the Steelers with a passion, but I still say Lambert was the best I ever saw. I also think you're right on with the call on the old-timer committee.

 

That's why I opted for the Kevin Greene comparison for Clay. Yes, somebody pointed out Greene's stats compared to Clay, and Clay falls short on Greene's numbers....but Clay was IMHO clearly a more complete football player...Greene was an edge-rush specialist (and bounced around to several teams).

 

 

OK, so, I am a big supporter of Lambert's, being somewhat of a home boy and despite his occasional cheap shot on Brian Sipe, and he is a no Brainer Hall of Famer....but....he is NOT the best I have ever seen play.

I have to put him behind Butkus, Nitschke, Sam Huff, and probably Ray Lewis. But I would rate him above fellow HOFers Willie Lanier, Joe Schmidt, and Nick Buonticonti....as far as middle linebackers go that I have seen. Didn't see Bill George play.

A MLB that was outstanding that is not in the HOF is Tommy Nobis.

 

I note parenthetically that I don't know that the Browns have ever really truly had that HOF caliber middle linebacker play for them. Who would you consider the best MLB in Browns history?

[Zombo]

My recollection is that Kevin Greene was really a different sort of animal to Clay Mathews. In essence, Greene played the pass rush defensive end position rather than the true outside linebacker position. Greene almost exclusively had pass rush duties, where Mathews was more often not rushing the passer except in blitz situations. How often did Greene have pass coverage duties? Rarely. Mathews: primarily.

That is what I recall. So, they may be a bit of apples and oranges

.

 

Yeah, they are totally different players Greene was a pass rush specialist while Matthews was a staunch defender of both the run and the pass.

 

And Greene is not in the Hall of Fame, as someone else had mistakingly said.

 

Zombo

[ballpeen]

Some guys that make the HOF do so simply because they were on a winning team, while it is certainly possible that players that were on losing or mediocre teams do not make it even though, perhaps they had superior careers. Do you not think for a moment say, that if the Browns had won a couple of Super Bowls during the 80s that Clay Mathews would not be in the HOF? Or Dixon? Almost surely they would, yet, in reality I doubt that their careers would have been one bit better.

 

 

No doubt that plays a part in in.

 

Clay is top of mind to fans like us, and writers/voters in the area, but once you start leaving the area, Clay Matthews becomes further removed from top of mind.

 

 

 

Most people would remember him and think of him as a good player, but not as many would really remember him as better than just good.

 

[hoorta]

Some guys that make the HOF do so simply because they were on a winning team, while it is certainly possible that players that were on losing or mediocre teams do not make it even though, perhaps they had superior careers. Do you not think for a moment say, that if the Browns had won a couple of Super Bowls during the 80s that Clay Mathews would not be in the HOF? Or Dixon? Almost surely they would, yet, in reality I doubt that their careers would have been one bit better.

 

Good point, and IMHO that's why about 1\2 the Super Bowl Steelers are in the HOF. Greene, Bradshaw, and Lambert I'll grant you. You look at stats Swann and Stallworth are mighty marginal. Personally if Jack Ham is in, Clay should be also. Let's put the shoe on the other foot- put Matthews on those Steeler teams, and he's in no doubt. Ham on the Browns? He'd still be waiting.

[Bob806]

A MLB that was outstanding that is not in the HOF is Tommy Nobis.

 

I note parenthetically that I don't know that the Browns have ever really truly had that HOF caliber middle linebacker play for them. Who would you consider the best MLB in Browns history?[/color]

 

Charlie Hall was one of my favorites, but I don't recall if he was a MLB.

 

Mike Johnson comes to mind as the most recent top notch MLB...man I'm stuck in the past.

 

PS- good call on Tommy Nobis

 

Zombo- I thought he was in...he has been nominated twice (2007, 2010)...my bad

[The Gipper]

Good point, and IMHO that's why about 1\2 the Super Bowl Steelers are in the HOF. Greene, Bradshaw, and Lambert I'll grant you. You look at stats Swann and Stallworth are mighty marginal. Personally if Jack Ham is in, Clay should be also. Let's put the shoe on the other foot- put Matthews on those Steeler teams, and he's in no doubt. Ham on the Browns? He'd still be waiting.

 

Precisely. And the same is certainly true of all the Browns from the 40s and 50s and the Packers of the 60s. They were dominant so a lot of guys get in the HOF. Had they been with another team, they probably don't make it.

Here is an example I have been told: Archie Manning. What is Archie Manning is drafted by the Steelers and Bradshaw by the Saints? Some say Archie was the best QB of his era, but just played on team that stunk. He is not in the HOF, but many think he should be.

[ballpeen]

Precisely. And the same is certainly true of all the Browns from the 40s and 50s and the Packers of the 60s. They were dominant so a lot of guys get in the HOF. Had they been with another team, they probably don't make it.

Here is an example I have been told: Archie Manning. What is Archie Manning is drafted by the Steelers and Bradshaw by the Saints? Some say Archie was the best QB of his era, but just played on team that stunk. He is not in the HOF, but many think he should be.

 

 

 

And now you are beginning to know why Matthews faces a uphill battle.

 

 

If you are on fairly nondescript teams, which Clay was most of his career, you really have to be a standout player. And even then as Manning and Nobis illustrate, you have a very tough go as the years pass and more top of mind players become eligible.

[The Gipper]

And now you are beginning to know why Matthews faces a uphill battle.

 

 

If you are on fairly nondescript teams, which Clay was most of his career, you really have to be a standout player. And even then as Manning and Nobis illustrate, you have a very tough go as the years pass and more top of mind players become eligible.

 

 

OK, so, then, you then agree with us now: The key to HOF consideration is to be on a winning team. Fair to say? A person with perhaps better talent on a losing...or nondescript team, is going to get less consideration that a slightly lesser player on a winning team.

If Jerry Sherk had played for the Steelers in the 70s instead of the Browns, he may have been thought of in the same terms as Bob Lilly, Randy White, or Mean Joe Greene. But he played on a poor team.