Guest ATENEARS Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I wish I had more time to follow this story closer, as I've heard so many angles right now I don't know which way to lean. It's obvious that either the US Gov wants one of them out or all of them to combine. Or are we trying to force them into bankruptcy to oust the union contracts? How much money do you guys have laying around? Think we can scratch up $6-Billion to buy Volvo from Ford? If Volvo costs only $6-billion to buy-out, why do we need $37-128 Billion to bail-out? I think GM needs to be blown up, but I know that ain't gonna happen. Looks like Chyrsler is the one on the chopping block, and I guess I just don't see why. They seem the less beauocratic combogulated of the three, although are probably further along on a green-vehicle. This is huge stuff and should be of more concern but it's manufacturing and we all know they are the negro's of the ecconomy today. It's a three-headed monster with legs that spread ... err... everywhere. Not good. I would hate to be living in Detroit right about now. Pretty soon it's gonna be like the movie 'Escape from NY' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 This is a move over from free enterprise into socialism i was watching Hannity last night and they were stating that our governmet is in control of more than 50% of industry right now. and soon when Obama and the Dems get into office and take over the Medical our government will be in charge of more than 70% of america. And this is the land of the Free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyJack Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Not good. I would hate to be living in Detroit right about now. Pretty soon it's gonna be like the movie 'Escape from NY' Detroit just might be worst than Pittsburgh, who would want to live in any of those cities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Detroit just might be worst than Pittsburgh, who would want to live in any of those cities! I love Detroit, that place has character. It's just that EVERYTHING is tied to automotive. When the automotive industry is down (early/mid-90's) the unemployment rate and crime is abundant. When the automotive industry is doing well (mid/late 80's) Detroit is a great town to live, with high paying jobs at every turn. I lived there through both, and had a great start to my adult life being exposed to automation manufacturing in the mid-80's, and I moved back to Detroit in the early 90's to start our family material handling business that we are still going strong at 18 years later. But by the mid-90's I was ready to get the hell out of dodge, as one could sense that the wheels were coming off within the automotive industry. We were one of the lucky ones, we never tied ourselves to any one industry. But most small business in Detroit do just that, all their eggs are in supplying the car makers. The trickle effect is gonna be bigger than the employment of the Big three itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Nixon went to China. Clinton signed welfare reform, protection of marriage act and NAFTA. Bush slipped through No Child, Medicare prescriptions and the bailout. Only Obama can bust the union. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy.E.Munson Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 will the failure of the big three be the end of the middle class? The rich get Richer and the Poor will get Poorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 The rich get Richer and the Poor will get Poorer It's just like a game of Monopoly...sooner or later all but one are broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy.E.Munson Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yeah and your government owns everything but water works and they keep taxing you for landing on their property! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiperBowl Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Nixon went to China. Clinton signed welfare reform, protection of marriage act and NAFTA. Bush slipped through No Child, Medicare prescriptions and the bailout. Only Obama can bust the union. WSS Its going to be a CHANGE to a New Bigger and Better Union ran by the US Government! we will all be Slaves to the Big US Union, thru taxes or having to work for nothing. The Rich Get Richer and Get More Power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 We are Now being BlackMailed! GOP Senator Warns of 'Riots' if Automakers Are Bailed Out Sen. Jim DeMint says unfair union influence and the bailout culture will anger many Americans By Jeff Poor Business & Media Institute 12/11/2008 1:28:37 PM Time and again we’ve heard about the lost jobs and economic impact of failing to bail out the beleaguered American auto manufacturers. But little mention has been made of the consequences of going through with the bailout, and how such an action would be viewed by other Americans. In an interview following a Dec. 10 press conference where he and four other senators aired their opposition to the proposed bailout deal struck by congressional leaders and the White House (and approved by the U.S. House of Representatives 237-170 that evening), Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., warned that the perception that some industries are being bailed out and some aren’t could lead to violence. “We’re going to have riots. There are already people rioting because they’re losing their jobs when everybody else is being bailed out. The fairness of it becomes more and more evident as we go along. The auto companies may be hurting,” he said, but “there are very few companies that aren’t hurting and they’re going to hurt. We don’t have enough money to bail everyone out.” DeMint blamed the unions for pushing this issue as far as it has gotten. The senator said the notion that reorganization under bankruptcy would not work was generated by the unions for fear of losing their power. “The primary driver behind this is the unions, because bankruptcy allows the auto companies to basically restructure all their contracts in a way that a bankruptcy judge says will make them sustainable,” DeMint said. “And if they do that, then essentially the unions lose all their leverage. It’s the unions that have brought them to the brink. So definitely, I think the reason they want a political solution and a car czar is because a car czar can protect the unions through this whole process at the expense of the taxpayer.” The result of the bailout culture that now exists on Capitol Hill will be incredibly high rates of inflation down the road as the economy picks back up and prices reflect the amount of new money circulating through the economy. “There is no question this will result in inflation,” DeMint said. “The amount of money we’ve borrowed, the amount of money we’ve printed has put us in a more dangerous situation than we’ve ever been in as a country. We may not see the inflation as long as the economy is slow. But, I’ve talked to some economic experts and once the economy starts picking up with so much money in the money supply and so much debt, we’re likely to see very high interest rates and very high inflation rates.” DeMint went as far as to say that General Motors (NYSE:GM), one of the big three auto manufacturers lobbying for bailout money, was better off than the nation that’s debating whether to rescue it.. “If you look at where we’re going, we’re not on a sustainable course as a country,” DeMint said. “Frankly, GM is in a better financial situation than we are as a country. The only difference is we can print money. But as other countries around the world lose confidence in the value of a dollar – that’s going to come home very shortly.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 We are Now being BlackMailed! GOP Senator Warns of 'Riots' if Automakers Are Bailed Out there's your martial law.......say bye bye guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I wish I had more time to follow this story closer, as I've heard so many angles right now I don't know which way to lean. It's obvious that either the US Gov wants one of them out or all of them to combine. Or are we trying to force them into bankruptcy to oust the union contracts? How much money do you guys have laying around? Think we can scratch up $6-Billion to buy Volvo from Ford? If Volvo costs only $6-billion to buy-out, why do we need $37-128 Billion to bail-out? I think GM needs to be blown up, but I know that ain't gonna happen. Looks like Chrysler is the one on the chopping block, and I guess I just don't see why. They seem the less beauocratic combogulated of the three, although are probably further along on a green-vehicle. This is huge stuff and should be of more concern but it's manufacturing and we all know they are the negro's of the ecconomy today. It's a three-headed monster with legs that spread ... err... everywhere. Not good. I would hate to be living in Detroit right about now. Pretty soon it's gonna be like the movie 'Escape from NY' first off Chrysler is privately owned and definitely should not be entitled to one cent of help. their backers have extremely deep pockets and even the idea of helping them is baffling to me. just another asshole w/ his hand out. as far as the other two....you make the wrong choice, you pay the price. you let big oil bully you---you go under. tough shit. GM was leading the WORLD in electric cars. they were selling them, made a ton of commercials to promote them, then all of a sudden POOF! they sent them to the shredder and all these perfect cars went in this machine that i liken to an automotive veg-o-matic. have you seen this movie? wiki it shows the aforementioned slice/dicer/grinder at the end of the clip it's pretty sickening. they chose to focus all their efforts on Hummers and SUV's when they were leading the way and could have done both. it sucks that in the end the workers may suffer in the long run for big business decisions. still part of what got them here is the worker's inflated pensions, overly generous benefits packages, unrealistically high wages etc. no company could sustain itself under what the unions demanded. fuk the unions too. they helped get them here as much as anything. these CEO's try to blame the economy for it which is totally ludicrous--cars are selling. in fact, toyota is doing quite well. america is currently importing cars 6 to 1. it's not that people aren't buying cars right now, it's that the big 3 aren't making cars the people want to buy. and i don't blame them. simple as that as i see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 it's pretty sickening. they chose to focus all their efforts on Hummers and SUV's when they were leading the way and could have done both. They chose to build what sold. At least recently the best selling car in the US was or is the Honda Civic. Not a very large vehicle that gets a lackluster 39 mpg. GM and ford don't make a comparable car? Sure they do. it sucks that in the end the workers may suffer in the long run for big business decisions. Some workers. Those who buid Honda and Subaru here in America are OK. still part of what got them here is the worker's inflated pensions, overly generous benefits packages, unrealistically high wages etc. no company could sustain itself under what the unions demanded. fuk the unions too. they helped get them here as much as anything. True. All of a sudden there is competion too. Not to mention the catch 22 of health care. As long as US business picks up the tab for top notch care it's going to hurt the bottom line. BUT Nobody wants to put up with the crappy service other countries give away. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 it's pretty sickening. they chose to focus all their efforts on Hummers and SUV's when they were leading the way and could have done both. They chose to build what sold. At least recently the best selling car in the US was or is the Honda Civic. Not a very large vehicle that gets a lackluster 39 mpg. GM and ford don't make a comparable car? Sure they do. it sucks that in the end the workers may suffer in the long run for big business decisions. Some workers. Those who buid Honda and Subaru here in America are OK. still part of what got them here is the worker's inflated pensions, overly generous benefits packages, unrealistically high wages etc. no company could sustain itself under what the unions demanded. fuk the unions too. they helped get them here as much as anything. True. All of a sudden there is competion too. Not to mention the catch 22 of health care. As long as US business picks up the tab for top notch care it's going to hurt the bottom line. BUT Nobody wants to put up with the crappy service other countries give away. WSS They chose to build what sold.that's complete bullshit steve. that's also mediocre thinking. catering to boss hogg and not looking at the horizon gets you passed up in America. now they can deal. totally contradicting what you said above GM actually "built" then proceeded to ground up perfectly fine, working electric cars into metal scap no bigger than a child's fist because they chose to build what sold? huh? are you familiar w/ what you're talking about? they were already built. research-done. development-done. production-done. advertising-shot-ready to air. sales-just beginning. so why destroy them? maybe rethink your response, and if you're not familiar, maybe watch the movie. not the trailer, but the actual movie that came out in '06. they spent a grip on marketing, yet not a commercial one aired in my neighborhood. it sucks that in the end the workers may suffer in the long run for big business decisions. Some workers. Those who buid Honda and Subaru here in America are OK. i was directly referring to workers at Ford and GM. somehow i lost you.....or you lost me....whatever. name one thing GM has ever done that's head and shoulders above the competition. how about Ford? maybe it's just a matter of preference, cuz i've never liked a single thing i've ever seen. EVERY car, domestic, import, european, etc are all 50 years behind in my opinion. no car maker in existence should have begun to think about making anything "luxury" until every car was close to being emission free. our technology is so stale......i guess i'll throw you a bone though and add that consumer complacency is at fault as much as the visionless management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Actually, Steve is mostly right - to a point... They DID make what sold - people wanted those SUV's, Pickup trucks and eh.. some wanted Hummers, my neice doesn't know why, they ride terrible... they would not be innovative in their engineering - they preferred to get the last freakin hundred bucks out of their current products that they could possibly get, before they would ever re-engineer and develop new, quality, competive cars, trucks and vans, SUV's... but there are two problems with the American car companies' product: 1. Very poor dependability. 2. The unions. Self centered, greedy, used their collective power to push the envelope, every contract, because they COULD. Look at any eval of car owners satisfaction ratings - Honda and Toyota usually lead the pack. I've heard way too many bad things about GM and Dodge vehicles, and Ford does some stupid stuff too. Like the unions' greed, the brass at these places could have resolved any poor quality issues, but ... it is a great big money maker to require those owners to come into the dealership for repairs. IOW, I was told by more than one mechanic I've met, that they make far more $$$$ in repairs than they do selling the car. They never figured on so much completition that they lost sales. They were stupid, pigheaded and short term self-serving. BTW, the Honda Civic has been on the "best new car buy" list for economy and dependability. They can run almost forever without having problems.... American industry brass have been reluctant to be innovative, and in some areas, like vehicles, they ride happily along with poor dependability - and the only reason is replacement sales/repairs are big moneymakers. go to most any dealer service dept to get your car fixed, it's like "How much?" "Well, how much money can you pay?" Meanwhile, I know folks who have Toyota's and Honda's who have over 100,000 mi on their cars, and they have never had to get them repaired. Dodge vans have window motor and transmission problems a lot.... and getting the hubs off the wheels is hell... Dodge trucks have transmission problemss too often.. Ford gets the worst gas milage, Ford diesel trucks can require rebuilding 50-60,000 mi or earlier.. Dad and I did that once already - the dealer wanted 5800 dollars to replace the injectors etc, we did it for 1200 ourselves. We never worked on a diesel engine before... Ford has some freakie things going wrong with poluution control sensors, and engine components... and starters etc... GM is all over the place randomly? I was wanting to buiy a GM SUV from a friend after his lease was up, and he said he had it to the dealer so many times, he wouldn't sell it to anybody. It's probably worse than I know ... Can't wait to buy a Toyota. Made in America, of course... (my friend from India has two Toyota's, never has had any problem with em, over 100,000 mi., made in America by choice) Oh, he had had lunch at that hotel in Mumbai, once a week, when he was in India, and has relatives in Mumbai, they are okay. SO, the unions were greedy and irresponsible (and self perpetuating) and the brass were greedy, and IMHO, fiscally corrupt and intentionally not quality based. SO, they ran themselves into the dirt. And they want a bailout. Not so fast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Actually, Steve is mostly right - to a point... They DID make what sold - people wanted those SUV's, Pickup trucks and eh.. some wanted Hummers, my neice doesn't know why, they ride terrible... they would not be innovative in their engineering - they preferred to get the last freakin hundred bucks out of their current products that they could possibly get, before they would ever re-engineer and develop new, quality, competive cars, trucks and vans, SUV's... but cal, they also made electric cars, then after a decade ground them up into metal. what are you missing here? did people really want SUV's? last hundred bucks? there is still $100 trillion worth in oil in the ground to be exploited by internal combustion technology. so when you say last hundred bucks you're either being facetious or naiive cuz $100 trillion in existing resources is what drove the market, not making and selling what they thought the people wanted. if it wasn't more lucrative to continue planned obsolescence they would not have. how much they could potentially make drove the market, not what the people wanted, not what was good for the planet's resources or environment, not what was best for the auto workers, not any of that!! i'm not here to educate but it seems like all i'm getting done is repeating myself. besides, that rationale doesn't appeal to those of us who have wanted CAFE standards raised much higher than they are. they were already re-engineered and developed-if they weren't selling they could have let them collect dust in the showroom. we're talking about more than a decade of innovation, research, development, manufacturing, all to be scrapped without ever targeting anyone in America, save for a couple of "greenies" out in cali. that were in the know and pre-ordered. they dumped the entire program w/out anyone in America being none the wiser. like it never happened. that's different than a slow technological response. it's not like all these electric imports are making it in either. the missing ingredient is where big oil paid them to stall it all another decade or so. in the meantime america got ripped off by wall st. and the fed is devalueing the dollar faster than we can spend it. and consumers were more pissed and less complacent regarding their desire for "greener" choices for vehicles. you guys know what you know. but you can't seem to entertain the fact that these guys had it all in front of them.....and sold out. bottom line-apparently neither of you have heard of GM's electric car program they scrapped. how can i explain it any more? google is an awesome resource-check it out. look at how much they're not telling. and Ford could probably survive on it's own, it's GM that f'd up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Here is what burns my butt. Ford has a 65 mpg Fiesta 65 MPG Fiesta Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars Published December 7, 2008 Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars Why Are Some Diesels Illegal? Euro-diesels are very efficient, burning less fuel and therefore putting out less carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. The problem is NOx (which produces smog,) and particulate matter (which emits carcinogenic particles.) Read: Guide to Diesel Vehicles If you crave high gas mileage but aren’t a stickler about low emissions, then a European diesel-powered car will beat out a hybrid any day. The only problem: They are illegal in the US. That's mostly because Europe’s high-mpg diesels lack the sophisticated and pricey after-treatment systems required to meet the latest US emissions standards. And carmakers have been unwilling to make them legal by passing emission and safety regulations, and marketing cars that are small but relatively expensive. Ever since the Ford Fiesta's unveiling at the British International Motor Show in July 2008, we've been eager to get a close look at the sporty subcompact five-seater—the most fuel-efficient car available in the UK. So they have the technology...but there is ALWAYS an excuse!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 So they have the technology...but there is ALWAYS an excuse!!!hell yeah they have it. and not just on that front. those fuel cells in the electrics were developed by NASA is the 60's. exact same technology, about to turn 50 years old........ it's pretty messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Angry UAW members lash out at Southern senators UAW lashes out at senators in Southern states with foreign car plants after auto aid bill dies Tom Krisher and Kimberly S. Johnson, AP Auto Writers Friday December 12, 2008, 6:52 pm EST DETROIT (AP) -- Festering animosity between the United Auto Workers and Southern senators who torpedoed the auto industry bailout bill erupted into full-fledged name calling Friday as union officials accused the lawmakers of trying to break the union on behalf of foreign automakers. The vitriol had been near the surface for weeks as senators from states that house the transplant automakers' factories criticized the Detroit Three for management miscues and bloated UAW labor costs that lawmakers said make them uncompetitive. But the UAW stopped biting its tongue after Republicans sank a House-passed bill Thursday night that would have loaned $14 billion to cash-poor General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC to keep them out of bankruptcy protection. The Bush administration later stepped in and said it was ready to make money available to the automakers, likely from the $700 billion Wall Street bailout program. Still, autoworkers remain angry with the senators who tried to negotiate wage and benefit concessions from the union, then scuttled the House-passed bill that would have granted the loans and set up a "car czar" to oversee the nearly insolvent companies and get concessions from the union and creditors. Their top targets were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.; Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., who led negotiations on a compromise; and Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., who has been a vocal critic of the loans. Kentucky, Tennessee and Alabama all house auto assembly plants from foreign automakers, and union officials contend the senators want to drive UAW wages down so there would be no reason for workers at the foreign plants to join the union. "They thought perhaps they could have a twofer here maybe: Pierce the heart of organized labor while representing the foreign brands," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said at a Friday morning news conference in Detroit. Republicans in several Western states -- where unions are often shunned -- joined the Southerners in opposition. But lawmakers and their spokesmen said the criticism is off base. Jonathan Graffeo, Shelby's spokesman on the Senate Banking Committee, said the senator has consistently opposed taxpayer-funded bailouts. "He opposed the Chrysler bailout in 1979 when there were no foreign auto manufacturers in Alabama, and he opposed the recent $700 billion bailout of the banking industry," Graffeo said. "Bailouts generally don't work, and this is a huge proposed bailout, and I fear it's just the down payment on more to come next year," Shelby said on the Senate floor Thursday night. "These companies are either already failed or failing, and that's a shame. These aren't the General Motors, Ford and Chrysler I knew." Corker said the alternative he tried to develop would have provided federal money in exchange for restructuring the companies' debt and making the UAW more competitive in wages with workers at U.S. plants of Japanese competitors. "Our members wanted to know that the UAW was willing to be competitive," Corker said. "I basically pleaded with them to give me some language by some date certain that they were competitive with these other companies," Corker said. "That's where it broke down." Hourly wages for UAW workers at GM factories already are about equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota -- generally viewed as the main competitor of the Detroit Three -- says it pays about $30 per hour. But the unionized factories have far higher benefit costs. The union, GM and Chrysler have contended that the companies have restructured and the UAW has granted concessions that would make them competitive in 2010, but the economy went south this year and forced them into trouble. A third Detroit automaker, Ford Motor Co., asked for loans in case of emergency but says it has enough cash to make it through 2009. Union officials also accused the senators of retaliating for the UAW's overwhelming support of Democratic candidates in federal races. The union gave $1.9 million to Democrats but only $11,500 to Republicans in the 2008 election cycle. Many Democrats support the Employee Free Choice Act, which would take away employers' rights to demand a secret ballot on whether workers will join a union. Instead, workers could form unions by getting a majority of employees to sign a card in support of it. "There's a lot at stake. If Republicans think now they can tarnish labor, it's going to be difficult to pass the Employee Free Choice Act," said Gary Chaison, professor of labor relations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. "The unions are going to say that a strong labor movement is good for America. One of the things Republicans are trying to show now is that a strong labor movement isn't good for America." Other union officials joined Gettelfinger to form a chorus of anger and frustration with the senators. "What this is is the Southern conservative senators trying to destroy the United Auto Workers, trying to destroy unions," said Mike O'Rourke, president of a UAW local at a GM factory in Spring Hill, Tenn., Corker's home state. "It's a sad day in America when the senators turn their back on Main Street." In an effort to help the auto companies get federal aid, the UAW last week offered to delay company payments into a union-run trust fund that will take over retiree health care costs starting in 2010. It also agreed to end the controversial "jobs bank" program in which laid-off workers get most of their pay and benefits after unemployment pay runs out. Most Southern U.S. auto plants run by Toyota, Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co., BMW AG, Daimler AG and other manufacturers are nonunion. The UAW has tried numerous times without success to organize workers at the foreign-owned factories. Spokesmen for Toyota and Nissan declined comment, but Honda spokesman Ed Miller said in a statement the company did not lobby against the bill. "Honda has been encouraging initiatives that would maintain the short- and long-term viability of the U.S. auto industry, including the hundreds of the shared supplier companies in the United States," he said. As the Detroit Three have declined and ceded market share to the foreign nameplates, the UAW's membership has plummeted 69 percent, from a peak 1.5 million in 1979 to 465,000 at the end of 2007. Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas in Washington and AP Business Writer Ellen Simon in New York contributed to this report. And you would think that they would be glad the Bailout was voted down, in reality all GM wants to do is dump the retiree benefits program they dont want to payback all the money they owe and are still considering Bankruptcy regardless of getting Billions from the US Big Business Welfare bailouts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 that's complete bullshit steve. that's also mediocre thinking. catering to boss hogg and not looking at the horizon gets you passed up in America. now they can deal. totally contradicting what you said above GM actually "built" then proceeded to ground up perfectly fine, working electric cars into metal scap no bigger than a child's fist because they chose to build what sold? huh? are you familiar w/ what you're talking about? Snottiness aside keep in mind that if gas stays at two bucks SUVs still sell. Then for whatever reason it spikes and yip yip yip why won't GM make a magic car that gets 50 mpg?? There isn't one. There's a Prius whose actual numbers are short of that and they appeal to a small portion of society. Ford and GM make higher mileage cans but they aren't flying off the lot. You tell me why. You can gripe all you want about big oil but that's the best way to power an auto right now. With the liberals trying to ram an electric car down everybody's throat you wonder why they waste money on that unspectacular technology? In China where gas is subsidized and cheap they love Buicks. Americans won't buy tin cans until the price of gas is outrageous and even then the consumer takes it in the ass by being blackmailed into expensive inefficient cars. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 You Want a Car that gets 50MPG? VW Jetta Standard Shift Diesel!!!! http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/auto...ws/4235586.html The new era of clean diesel in America will officially be ushered in by the new VW Jetta TDi when it goes on sale in a few months. Powered by a 2.0-liter four-banger that produces 140 hp and 236 lb.-ft. of torque, it will be the first automobile to meet the world’s most stringent emission control standards, California’s Tier II, Bin 5. Although it won’t be wearing the “BlueTec” badge, the Jetta will be using emission-cleansing technologies developed under the cooperative formed by Audi, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen to make it 50-state legal. Most BlueTec vehicles control NOx emissions—one of the biggest environmental hurdles facing diesels, along with particulate matter—by injecting a urea-based solution into the exhaust system upstream from the catalytic converter, where NOx is then converted into nitrogen and water. The Jetta will instead use a NOx-storage catalyst, which is basically a reservoir that temporarily holds the noxious emissions, like a particulate filter, until they can be burned off during one of the engine cycles. In addition, the new engine will feature a common-rail fuel injection system, instead of VW’s traditional mechanical system, that uses piezoelectric fuel injectors. This technology permits higher injection pressures, which better atomize the fuel and make it easier to control pollution. We recently test drove the Jetta through the streets of San Francisco and were pleasantly surprised. The Jetta has always been agile and zippy, but the new, more powerful TDi gives it more oomph, allowing us to power through traffic and accelerate from stoplights with authority and a little bravado—we totally tooled on a Toyota Prius. We were also shocked as to how quiet the engine operates: You have to consciously listen for the knocking, or you wouldn’t even notice it. If reports are correct, the Jetta should get upwards of 50 mpg, combined highway and city. Although pricing hasn’t been announced, expect it to be within a few thousand of the current models (an estimated $18,000 to $23,000). We can’t wait for chance to spend some more time with the new TDi Jetta—and test its real-world feul economy. —Chuck Tannert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiperBowl Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy.E.Munson Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Hell ... This is my ride! it gets 7 mpg... and i buy AMERICAN!!!!! xxxx the Big Three! should make their asses go bankrupt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy.E.Munson Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 The Electric bill is due... bail me out..... They wont because i dont hav $50 mil to lobby congress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy.E.Munson Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 What ever happened to the Buy American campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Nobody is trying to break the unions. They have been breaking themselves for years. Used to know an assistant pastor who had a degree, was an engineer for a big American auto dealer. He quit - the things they did to save money, make a cheaper product, with what he thought was deliberate engineering to make a car engine that HAD to be brought into the dealer, and had plenty of built in problems to start occuring just after the warranties were up... so, he was disgusted and went into the ministry after college. About 14/15 Dems voted against the bailout for the auto manufacturers, too. But the unions are so sold out to the Dems, they won't say one word. They just do their angry partisan sniping. "The Dems are just voting against the auto bailout because we support them in the general election" no, you won't ever hear that. American made Toyotas are the way to go. don't like Honda's - they don't make pickup trucks (the one they do make doesn't qualify, imho) Unions used to protect workers from being treated unfairly. For many decades now, they have become greedy levers to always elect Dems, and to empower the unionized workforce to push their industries into near? bankruptcy. And American cars are just pitiful in dependability. How to ya to that "accidently" across the board? All THREE AMERICAN AUTO MAKERS? They say those production lines get shut down for things like wrenches "being dropped" etc, during holidays and hunting seasons. And spring for fishing. and summer for vacations they don't have anymore of... Oh yeah. They did it to themselves. The old union guys had tremendous work ethic, and pride. The younger guys came in decades later and, "poof" ... working was a joke to them. That was told to me last year, by an old guy who used to be a union rep back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Now they have 3 months to repay the loans or Big Brother will take them over and tell them how to run there businesses. Isn't that what the liberals want anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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