Who needs a QB?

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Looking around the league...we can find a lot of possibles...so how about we dissect them:

 

Kansas City - There was talk around mid-season that Thigpen was doing such a bang up job that they would be content to go into next year with him. While his numbers have been decent over the last part of the season...he has NOT been able to win or even put up BIG numbers against some of the leagues WORST defenses. Outside of SD and NYJ games...he has not demonstrated the ability to make this team competitive. Still, they will have him to fall back on...so don't expect them to go crazy with a TOP draft pick. I would think they offer a 3rd at best.

 

Minnesota - Anyone who thinks TJ or Gus Frerotte...or even Booty...are the answer in Minnesota...well, put down the crack pipe. They WILL be in the running for a QB. They also pick too late to be in the running for EITHER of the top QB's in this draft. So they will be looking. Right now, the top FA crop is thin. I fully expect TB to keep Garcia...and I think most teams are going to be hesitant to deal a ton for NE's Cassel, believing that his success was based more on a system than on anything special (in fact, I have actually seen a couple articles...loose interpretation....questioning if Brady is a system guy...and if NE might keep Cassel and trade Brady). Anyway, the other options are DA and possibly McNabb. I see Phily asking for nothing less than 2 1sts for McNabb...and with his injuries and age...DA may be the perfect fit here. Great OL, Great D, and Great running game. His long ball would be a perfect fit. I could see them sending their 2nd for him.

 

Chicago - Orton has performed admirably...but he doesn't have nearly the physical skill sets of DA. Again, this is the perfect type of team for DA. Great OL, Great D, Great running game. His long ball would open up the LOS for Forte. Even so, I think they don't go over a 3rd for him....especially if they make the playoffs somehow this year.

 

Detroit - They NEED a QB. They chose Drew Stanton last year. Are they going to scrap him after only 1 year? A lot of pundits think so. I am not so sure....but either way, I think Kitna is irrevocably tied to the OLD regime and will be gone...so they are going to need a guy with a little experience to get this team going for a year or two...and DA may be the right piece to do that if he can be had for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

 

Tampa Bay - I know, not exactly on the 'list' for most pundits...but hear me out. Garcia is a FA. He may be gone. They have the type of team that DA could do well in. Gruden likes bigger arms. They have NOBODY worth anything behind Garcia. Even if they keep Garcia...he is old as dirt. They also have the type of WR's that DA likes, TALL. TB is going to pick late enough that they wouldn't hesitate to send their 2nd round pick to us for his rights...besides, Gruden collects QB's like we collect Browns memorabilia.

 

Seattle - Hasselbeck continues to have injury issues...and despite a couple of nice games by Wallace...I just don't see how they can think of him as a starter. He is only 5'11", does not have a big arm...and his completion rate is about the same as DA (without the arm or height). They won't give up the farm....but a 2nd or 3rd may be offered.

 

 

Who knows what is going to happen, but those teams all have legit reasons to look at DA. I really think we end up getting a 2nd round pick from Minnesota. They are the most logical place for him to land...the best fit for DA's skill sets...and the closest to a playoff team that just needs a QB to get them over.

[BrownIndian]

I have a funny feeling that DA will be a brown next season. Quinn may be a starter but DA will be in the roster. With DA having a bad year I dont think teams will be that keen on having him and might prefer to see if they get lucky in the draft. But he is worth a lot more than is credited for. Most of the teams listed above have a QB available or can wait.

 

KC likes Thigpen, I dont think will cut him out just yet.

 

Minessota ? If McNabb doesn't go there then Cassell will.

 

Chicago ? Orton is doing a steady job and is reliable. Also there is no guarantee that Anderson will outshine him. they may wait till a Franchise QB is ready before they give up on QB and Rex Grossman is still there.

 

Detroit ? Our only hope. If they chose to go free agency wise for QB and if Casell is not around then good, we have the next best shot with DA.

 

Tampa ? Garcia is old but not washed out, he has 1/2 years more and they may wait. DA is a nice backup option for them but will they give us top class picks for DA ?

 

hopefully something new will occur and we can trade DA for his worth.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Funny....we all sit here and talk about ALL THE OTHER ISSUES on this team when we complain about our record...but then we suddenly forget them when we discuss what other teams will think about DA.

 

1. WR - Braylon has dropsies/Stallworth barely played/no other legit top WR prospect stepped up

2. RB - Lewis has looked like the guy Baltimore gave up on

3. OL - Tucker is out, Fraley is getting owned, Shaffer has been bull-rushed repeatedly, JT had a down year

4. TE - K2 has been a head case, costing us as many yards as he gave us

 

GM's are a lot more likely to look at the SITUATION (kind of like what I did with Wimbley) when they are evaluating the potential of DA.

 

Besides,

 

McNabb is likely not going anywhere. He is 32 (will be 33) and has been battered. While he would be a good 'short term' fix for a team...he is not a long term answer and giving up a 1st or more for him is pretty costly. I am not sure teams are going to line up for him with the likely asking price.

 

Cassel is LESS than a one year wonder. He has had good games against KC/NYJ/Denver/Miami. Out of those, NONE ARE IN THE TOP 20 in pass defense (Miami is best at 21). In fact, he has played only 3 games against teams ranked over 20th, and in those games he has had QBR of 76.1, 89.8 (Buffalo), and 39.4. Basically, he has had the ELITE offense of the Patriots and played against the dregs of the league...and still only had 3 games over 90 QBR. Not impressed....and neither will most GM's.

 

Anyway...I am thinking DA is a little more valuable than many of you realize.

[velvetdawg]

Cassel is LESS than a one year wonder. He has had good games against KC/NYJ/Denver/Miami. Out of those, NONE ARE IN THE TOP 20 in pass defense (Miami is best at 21). In fact, he has played only 3 games against teams ranked over 20th, and in those games he has had QBR of 76.1, 89.8 (Buffalo), and 39.4. Basically, he has had the ELITE offense of the Patriots and played against the dregs of the league...and still only had 3 games over 90 QBR. Not impressed....and neither will most GM's.

 

Anyway...I am thinking DA is a little more valuable than many of you realize.

 

People within football today are getting increasingly smart about recognizing that a QB greatly benefits from the team/system they play within. (And, conversely, suffers within poor teams/systems. Otherwise, a guy like Garcia would have been as good on the Browns and Lions as he as been on every other team he's played for.)

 

So, they'll be smart enough to realize that, as well as Cassel has performed for the Patriots, he's been doing it with THE PATRIOTS. They won't overpay for guys like this like they used to based on only one year within a strong system. Guys like him (possessing the necessary skills to be successful in the NFL) greatly benefit from extended time growing within said strong system (see Roehthlisburger, Ben); Cassel won't have that opportunity when Brady returns.

 

Sadly, neither has ANY QB that's been on the Browns roster since their return to the league.

 

[JewDago]

while teams are likely to take the browns' entire situation into account when evaluating DA, that can only affect their opinion of him so much.

 

they're likely to come to the same conclusion that many here have: he's a great option as a backup. he's got a strong arm, quick release, trusts his skills, has no mobility and is often inaccurate.

 

i think we're likely to get a four for him. if we're lucky, we can get a three, but i doubt any GM would give up more than that for a guy who's got obvious limitations.

 

leinart is an interesting guy, and one who, if on the market, will destroy DA's value. he's got the pedigree and skills but hasn't been in the right environment yet. he's someone who wasn't ready to be a football player when he was drafted, a guy who wanted to party and be a celebrity.

 

if he's out in arizona, someone will definitely think they can turn him around and get him focused. coaches have to think his immaturity would be easier to fix than DA's physical flaws and sometimes questionable decisionmaking.

[Legacy Fan]

If the gameplan is to move DA & Winslow, I'd send DA to Seattle for a 3rd/4th & Owen Schmitt. The guy runs a 4.6, is 6-3 & 250+. He's Urlacher with hands. We've got our TE/WR hybrid in Rucker, and Heiden isn't getting any younger. Bring in Schmitt & convert him to a TE/HB like Chris Cooley (RichRod lined him up there occasionally in Morgantown) . He can block extremely well, and wont be a DC's give away that we're running the ball when he's on the field. Plus, he's a psychopath, and every football team needs at least 2-3 of those.

 

I personally would like to keep Winslow, but his knees are on their 12th season while he'll be entering his 5th.

[BrownIndian]

I agree Leinart is a very valuable prospect and he can surely bump down the value of any QB's in the FA as of now ( the ones available for this season who are likely to leave or have a possibility) ... again as JD said, he is a very good option for a backup ... but he does not force a strong case for him as a startup QB. And i feel he will be a back up for Quinn. An expensive backup.

[Solon16]

nobody has mentioned St. Louis..... I think Bulger is finito....they will be looking, imo, for a Qb as well.

[Lumbergh]

nobody has mentioned St. Louis..... I think Bulger is finito....they will be looking, imo, for a Qb as well.

 

Agree on that point. They are HATING Bulger right now in St. Louis.

 

There's one other place that isn't being mentioned much either...

 

Cleveland - Quinn looks like the latest in a long line of overhyped Notre Dame QBs and Dorsey can't make NFL throws. Anderson happens to be currently on the roster and under contract for the Browns. The issue with Cleveland is that Anderson may choose to leave, as the fan base has come down with a bad case of GAY for Quinn.. It will probably depend on which coach the Browns get, but the decision will ultimately be up to Anderson as to whether he stays or goes.

 

 

[plumcrazy73]

Lum you really think it is on Anderson whether or not he goes or stays? It was untill he played like he has in the recent past (recent going back to mid-season last year). So you are labeling Quinn a bust after what 3 games but are still blind to Anderson's faults.

 

You are worse then a Steeler Uber Homer (and their are a few) at least they support the team, you don't support the team you support the player over the team.

 

 

[Lumbergh]

Lum you really think it is on Anderson whether or not he goes or stays?

 

He is under contract and the next guy in line has all of 3 NFL starts with bad numbers.

 

You think the Browns want to go into next season with all their eggs in the Quinn basket?

 

In your dreams.

[plumcrazy73]

He is under contract yes, but it is not up to him weather or not they keep him, different question try to not pick and choose.

 

No I don't but I don't think they want to pay the backup a 5 mil bonus either, and they want to difuse any QB controversy next year when Quinn hits a dry spell.

 

 

[Lumbergh]

No I don't but I don't think they want to pay the backup a 5 mil bonus either

 

They paid the backup Quinn a 5 mil bonus last spring.

[DTBH]

They paid the backup Quinn a 5 mil bonus last spring.

 

Quinn is currently an NFL starting quarterback and Anderson is currently/prospectively an NFL bench-warmer.

[plumcrazy73]

1. Ok, he was back up for the first part of the season, (cause RAC would not pull the plug when he should have). 2. They paid him that bonus cause they drafted him with a 1st rounder that they felt they needed to cause DA did not show the year prior to Quinn being drafted that DA was the QB they trusted fully. (looks like their first hunch was right,) (not saying QUinn is the one the either, now it is Quinns turn to show what he has, and if you can honestly truely say that after 3 pro games that Quinn is going to bust then you are just a anti-anybody but DA guy, try using some football sense when judging DA not your biased thinking, but DA has shown that he is not the one) 3. Quinn is the starting QB now. 4 They don't want a controversy next year. (now who knows what the new coach will do, assuming their is a new coach.

[Lumbergh]

Seriously, Lum... you need to find another board now. He's history. He'll be cut in late February.

 

I'd advise you not to bet your "left testicle" on it.

 

Zero chance he'll be cut shep. Don't forget the tutorial I gave you on guaranteed money.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I'd advise you not to bet your "left testicle" on it.

 

Zero chance he'll be cut shep. Don't forget the tutorial I gave you on guaranteed money.

 

Lummy, since you refused to reply to this the LAST time it was posted:

 

These are the contracts for BQ and DA:

 

BQ

QUOTE

8/7/2007: Signed a five-year, $9.25 million contract. The deal contains $7.75 million guaranteed, including a $4.3 million roster bonus in the second year. Another $11 million ($5M in 2010, $5.9M in 2011) is available though escalators in 2010 and 2011 based on Quinn taking at least 55% of the snaps in each of the first two years or at least 70% in his third season. Another $9.8 million is available, but is unlikely to be earned. 2008: $370,000, 2009: $655,000, 2010-2011: $700,000, 2011: Free Agent

 

 

DA

QUOTE

2/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $14.5 million in guarantees, including a $7 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on Pro Bowls and performance. 2008: $950,000, 2009: $1.45 million (+ $5 million roster bonus), 2010: $7.45 million (+ $2 million roster bonus), 2011: Free Agent

 

 

The keys are bolded:

 

In 2009 the contracts are:

BQ - $655, 000

DA - $6,450,000

 

In 2010 the contracts (if you assume BQ starts) are:

BQ - $5,700,000 (includes $5M kicker to base)

DA - $9,450,000 (includes $2M roster bonus)

 

In 2011:

BQ - $6,600,000 (includes $5.9M kicker to base)

DA - FA

 

So for those claiming that BQ costs more than DA....not quite...even if BQ starts for the next 2 years....BQ will cost the Browns a total of $6.35M and DA will cost $15.9M....even counting BQ's 2011 salary, he only costs $12.95M, which is STILL less than DA for the next 2 years.

 

Now, who do you REALLY think will be traded this off-season???

 

DA's contract will not allow him to sit on the bench...unless he is willing to restructure as a backup.

 

[plumcrazy73]

It is not Quinns fault that RAC did not pull the trigger earlier, most everyone seen that he should have way earlier. Can't blame RAC for starting DA though, he did have a damn good year, last year, (rougher last half but good year none the less) so he should have gotten the nod, however he should have been yanked earlier then he was.

 

As for Quinn not playing, that is a toss up, he did hold out, and there are many formula's to handling a potential Franchise QB, we tried the trial by fire did not work (couch) so we tried the other after the hold out made the decision to start someone else (who incidentally was not DA, so how good was DA when he could not beat out FRYE, that same logic can be applied to DA too!)

 

As for the injury part, would rather chance it with Dorsey and the newest QB added and maybe add another to the mix next year, then have what we have now in the QB debate. Besides DA had his chance. Had his 15 minutes of fame with this club. I hope he does get another shot though. Just not here.

 

 

[damajuki]

I'd throw Carolina in this discussion as well.

 

I brought Carolina up last season when Delhomme was out and I still think he makes sense for them. In fact, now he makes even more sense, since they've upgraded with Otah and Stewart.

 

Delhomme's not going anywhere anytime soon and he's their leader on the field but he's old and inaccurate and they eventually will need to replace him.

 

Might they give up their 3rd or 4th to bring in a big arm to come along behind Jake?

 

They are similar to Minny in that they have a power running game and stout D but struggle getting the ball to their playmaker. Think Steve Smith would complain about DA's big arm?

 

Anyway, we'll see how they finish out but they make sense to me.

[Guest Aloysius]

I really like that idea, Juki. I've read in several places that one of the reasons why Carolina's run game has had so much success (4th in the league) is that defenses don't crowd the box because they're afraid of getting beat deep by Steve Smith.

 

If the Panthers were to lose a playoff game because the opposing D crowded the box & Delhomme couldn't hit Smith deep, then they'd probably be interested in giving up a late 3rd for DA. They don't have a 1st Round pick (from acquiring Jeff Otah), so they're not going to get a possibly starting-caliber QB in this year's weak QB class.

 

Also, Kevin Smith Jeff Davidson is still their OC, so they already have a guy who knows DA.

[BrownIndian]

Delhome is 33, a leader and very well versed with their offense and is surely not leaving the Panthers any time soon.

[Guest Aloysius]

Delhome is 33, a leader and very well versed with their offense and is surely not leaving the Panthers any time soon.

On the other hand, Delhomme is 33, leads a passing attack ranked 22nd in the league, and is only signed through next season.

[2yy4u]

If the gameplan is to move DA & Winslow, I'd send DA to Seattle for a 3rd/4th & Owen Schmitt. The guy runs a 4.6, is 6-3 & 250+. He's Urlacher with hands. We've got our TE/WR hybrid in Rucker, and Heiden isn't getting any younger. Bring in Schmitt & convert him to a TE/HB like Chris Cooley (RichRod lined him up there occasionally in Morgantown) . He can block extremely well, and wont be a DC's give away that we're running the ball when he's on the field. Plus, he's a psychopath, and every football team needs at least 2-3 of those.

 

I personally would like to keep Winslow, but his knees are on their 12th season while he'll be entering his 5th.

 

 

I think we'd be lucky to get just Schmitt for DA...you're talking about a guy that was a 3rd rounder and I don't see us getting more than a third and maybe a 5th or 6th for him...lucky to get that!