3-4 Defense Examined

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I found this and it is really interesting:

 

Nfl Draft Basics: 3-4 Defense

Characteristics of Linebackers and Lineman in a 3-4 System

By Primetime, published Feb 13, 2008

 

Today in the NFL, the 3-4 defense is becoming increasingly popular, with more and more teams converting to the 3-4 scheme. However, one of the problems of a 3-4 defense is that the players of the front seven greatly differ from players of a 4-3 defense. Converting to a 3-4 from a 4-3 is not as simple as taking out one lineman and adding a linebacker. The job description of each position changes, as well as the characteristics and traits of each player. In addition, drafting players for a 3-4 is entirely different. Because most college teams employ a 4-3, scouts and managers of NFL teams must be able to project how 4-3 players will do in a 3-4 system, by looking at physical traits and abilities in certain areas.

 

Nose Tackle (NT):

 

In the 3-4 defense, the most important position is that of the Nose Tackle. The Nose Tackle, or NT, plays in the middle of the line. His primary job is to command double or even triple teams, so the rest of the line and linebackers can either go one on one with a lineman, or be free to blitz or tackle. He is the dominating force in the middle that stuffs runs, and usually does not command spectacular stats. Despite this, the NT is the most important position in a 3-4 defense. If he is not able to hold his ground against 2 or even 3 blockers, then the defense is vulnerable to inside runs. Because of the physical exertion and shock that results from constant double and triple teams, Nose Tackles must have incredible stamina and endurance.

 

When looking for a nose tackle, teams look for the following:

 

Physical traits:

- Large girth, thick body

- Low Center of Gravity (to generate a low push).

- Fast hips, stout legs

- Incredible Strength throughout the body - NT's can typically bench 225lbs at least 30 times

- Usually, nose tackles are at most no taller than 6'4, and weigh at least 325lbs.

- Very good stamina and endurance (for taking on constant double and triple teams)

 

Technique and characteristics:

- Does not get knocked off his feet very easily

- Explosive push

- Be very skilled in getting leverage (hand placement, low position) - being too tall will result in a less effective NT, as he cannot get low position against the center and guard.

- Quick reactions and recognition of blocking schemes and plays.

 

Current Premiere Nose Tackles:

Jamal Williams of the San Diego Chargers (6'3, 348lbs)

Casey Hampton of the Pittsburgh Steelers (6'1, 325lbs)

New England Patriot's Vince Wilfork (6'2, 325lbs)

 

Defensive End (DE):

 

Today's 3-4 Defensive end has the primary job description of being a run stuffer and block eater, as well as being an adequate blitzer. Usually, the DE who plays on the weak side of the line (side with no TE) is a better blitzer, and the DE who plays on the strong side is a better run stuffer. This is because teams tend to run towards the strong side. However, because of today's formation shifts and advanced offense, DE's need to be good at both jobs.

 

A 3-4 DE usually weighs from 290-310lbs. Any lighter and he will not hold up against running plays, and any faster he will be too slow in the passing game as well as outside runs.

 

Usually, when looking for a DE, teams will look at 4-3 DT/DE tweeners - DT's who excel in pass rushing, or at 4-3 DE's who are large and specialize in run stopping.

 

In some 3-4 defenses, such as that of the New England Patriots, the DE plays a 2-gap responsibility. He is responsible for the gap on both sides of the lineman he is matched against. When this is the case, a 3-4 team needs to find a DE who can quickly diagnose plays and stop the run on either side. In other 3-4's, such as that of the San Diego Chargers, the DE plays only a 1 gap responsibility, meaning he is only responsible for what comes through his assigned gap. In this case, a DE who might be more nimble and able at pass rushing than his 2-gap DE counterpart is desired.

 

Outside Linebackers (OLB):

 

Many of today's 3-4 Outside Linebackers were premiere pass rushing Defensive Ends in a 4-3 system. Shawne Merriman and Demarcus Ware, for example, both played DE in college. The main focus of the OLB is pass rushing - he is the playmaker, the sacker. However, the OLB will also drop back into coverage and play the run, especially outside runs.

 

Drafting a 3-4 OLB:

 

Teams will look for 4-3 defensive ends who are very quick, and have shown abilities in coverage.

Teams will also look for 4-3 OLB who tend to be larger than typical 4-3 OLB, and who have better pass rushing skills.

Characteristics and traits:

3-4 OLB have long arms, to keep blockers away while rushing.

Many 3-4 OLB have elite burst and acceleration

A 3-4 OLB will typically weigh 240-275lbs. Their height can be anything, although a standard 3-4 OLB will typically be in the 6'2 to 6'6 range

 

Inside Linebackers (ILB):

 

In a 3-4 system, the SILB (strongside inside linebacker) and WILB (weakside inside linebacker) typically have slightly differing roles.

 

The primary concern of the SILB is to shed blocks and stop the run on the inside, whereas the WILB is a pass covering MLB who is also decent at run stuffing. Both need to be able to get to the outside when an outside run is featured.

 

The SILB does not need elite speed - instead, he needs to be able to handle interior offensive lineman, shed blocks, and get to the runner. The SILB also blitzes sometimes to create pressure up the middle.

 

The WILB is generally a smaller, faster version of the SILB who has skills in pass coverage. Often times, he is one on one with a tight end, or drops back into zone coverage around the middle. He is also however decent at scraping blocks and stopping the run when needed. WILB need good hips and reaction in order to cover well.

 

Drafting interior linebackers for a 3-4 generally does not differ too much from drafting a 4-3 linebacker. A typical ILB will weigh in the 240-260lb range. Teams will look for MLB in a 4-3 who have certain characteristics of either a SILB or WILB. In addition, ILB who very physical are important, especially for the SILB, as most of the time they are matched up against lineman.

 

A look at our team shows that we have only one traditional DE for the 3-4 on our current roster...and that is Thomas...not exactly a top notch guy. R.Smith fit the role...but he was more of a run stuffer than a blitzing DE. C.Williams has the pass rush ability, but due to this being a new system to him....and his shoulder injury he sustained in training camp...he has been totally ineffective.

 

Thus, the problem for our entire defense.

 

The more I look at our team...the more I think we need to look at a DE as a viable first round pick, along with the SILB and an OLB.

 

R.Smith will be 32 next year. So we need to be getting his replacement NOW! Bell may still be a decent SILB, but we haven't seen him in there yet. If he is decent, we can pass on this position. We do, however, need a guy opposite Wimbley to put pressure on the QB.

 

After reading this...I am even MORE convinced that Curry is the guy we need to go after if he is still on the board. He has the ability to play any of the LB positions in a 3-4....so if Bell works out he can go OLB. If Bell doesn't...he can go SILB. If he is gone I think we need to look at Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU

 

Tyson Jackson DL 6'5 291 LSU

By: Robert Davis

 

Jackson showed flashes of what was to come as a freshman, when he had 13 tackles, two for loss, and two sacks in reserve action. As a sophomore, he earned all SEC honors when he finished the season with 37 tackles, ten for loss, 8.5 sacks, and an interception. Bigger things were expected as a junior, and while he still had a fine season, the stats didn’t show it. He finished the season with 36 tackles, 4.5 for loss, and 3.5 sacks on the year.

 

Strengths

 

Jackson brings a lot of versatility to the defensive line. He has the size and all around skill to impact the game in a lot of ways. He has an impressive set of tools, starting with excellent size for a defensive end. He is also a good athlete and can provide pressure on the quarterback on the edge. What sets him apart as an end though, is his run stopping ability. This may make him an ideal fit for a 3-4 defense, because he is stout at the point of attack and can really clog running lanes. Jackson could play end in a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment, but may also be able to shift inside in a 4-3. That type of versatility is going to ensure Jackson gets a lot of attention as the draft approaches, because he can fit any team that has a hole along the defensive line.

 

Weaknesses

 

For a traditional defense end, Jackson may lack the explosive athleticism and quickness to be a consistent threat off the edge. His pass rush ability at the college level has a lot to do with his natural strength and ability to control the lineman, then use his athleticism to get into the backfield. In the NFL, he will not have such a physical advantage and will have to learn new ways to apply pressure.

 

Future

 

For a team in need of a 3-4 end, Jackson may be the ideal fit. He is a standout at holding his ground, taking on blocks and stopping the run. He could bring above average penetration skills for a 3-4 end also. He can also fill holes in the 4-3, but fills a more specific role in that defense. If Jackson can become more of a playmaker, like he was as a sophomore, the sky really is the limit. He has the type of game that could get him taken in the first half of the first round if he puts it all together this year.

 

This may be even a bigger need than the LB position.

[JewDago]

i'd say our needs are pretty even, with LB having the edge because the players we have there are weaker. we have three linebackers (wimbley, hall, d'qwell) and two defensive linemen (rogers and williams). we're one starter short on each unit, and that's only if hall continues improving.

 

and, regardless of what we've got in bell, there's no way drafting curry isn't an upgrade.

 

i was interested in jackson last offseason, and hoped he wouldn't declare for the draft early because we didn't have the picks to get him. this year, if he does come out, it's very possible we could get him because san diego has good, young players on its DL, new england does, too, and pittsburgh and miami have more pressing needs.

 

the team i'd worry about taking him in the first round is dallas, except that they don't have a first rounder. it's entirely possible we could get him in the second.

 

we need to hope that the raiders win another game. is it even possible that we lose to cinci?

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Corey Williams is a dead solid perfect fit for 3-4 DE... a 4-3 DT with some height and an ability to get to the QB. He's the prototype, in fact. He just got dinged, that's all.

 

We may or may not need a new starting DE if we stay in the 3-4. Robaire Smith returns and Shaun Smith stays for the rotation. Melila Purcell might be ready to contribute, as someone at OBR suggested. And Chris Canty would be a fantastic f/a pickup.

 

I think Curry is the pick if we go to a 4-3, which I'm hearing more and more these days. It's tough to find his fit in the 3-4. If we stay 3-4, I say the pick is Maualuga.

Shep...you have this warped image of a 3-4 DE. As I have stated, and Aloysius has stated, and this column has stated...the PROTOTYPICAL DE in a 3-4 is 285-310 lbs. Corey Williams is TOO BIG! He MAY get it, but he is a project right now....and there is no guarantee he will ever adapt. Sure, the injury played a part...but he is NOT the prototype.

 

Look around the league, I am not going to do it for you again, we are the ONLY 3-4 team without at least 1 starting DE at or below 300lbs. THE ONLY ONE!!!

 

R.Smith is not young for a DE...and he is at 310 and a run stuffer. That means the guy opposite should be our quick-twitch guy that gets pressure on the QB and has better lateral movement. We either have to replace Smith or Williams to get that speed. It shows most of all on outside runs...where our DE's don't have the lateral movement to keep the OL off of our OLB's.

 

All we have is a bunch of wide bodies on the DL without a single TRUE 3-4 DE in the bunch (R.Smith maybe).

[Guest Aloysius]

I think Curry is the pick if we go to a 4-3, which I'm hearing more and more these days. It's tough to find his fit in the 3-4. If we stay 3-4, I say the pick is Maualuga.

Shep, I think you need to add this to your list of wrongs.

 

Seriously, I don't get why Curry isn't a good scheme fit for the 3-4. For instance, check out what PFW's Nolan Nawrocki has to say about him:

 

Aaron Curry, Wake Forest

6-1 3/4, 250, 4.61

 

A thickly built, strong, physical, hard-hitting ’backer with the size, instincts and overall athletic ability to line up at any position in a 3-4 or a 4-3 front. Curry’s value in large part stems from his versatility, as few linebackers possess the skill set to be effective at any position in either system. Might not have the overall length desired in a rush linebacker but has been extremely productive playing over the tight end, and his strength at the point of attack and ability to shed blockers is rare. With knuckle-breaking hand strength, he ragdolls blockers and plays a big man’s game with power. The most complete ’backer to come out in a long time, Curry has few deficiencies in his game and easily could fit into the top five. Scouts love his physical skill set.

I can get the argument that playing 3-4 ILB would hide some of the deficiencies in Maualuga's game, thereby making him a better choice (I don't agree, obviously). But I find it hard to understand why Curry can't play 3-4 ILB.

[Guest Aloysius]

As I have stated, and Aloysius has stated, and this column has stated...the PROTOTYPICAL DE in a 3-4 is 285-310 lbs.

I'm not sure that I said that, though it seems right. I'll just make a few points:

• Romeo like his DE's to be a little more rotund than other 3-4 guys do. Normally, that means sacrificing speed for size.

   

• Corey Williams is an exception to the rule. Though 320 lbs., he's fairly athletic & quick. A lot of his sacks in Green Bay came on speed moves, and he was quick enough to line up occasionally at DE on their even front.

   

• The problem, as I see it, is that Corey's best feature is his speed, and it's diminished when the guy plays too much. To me, he'd be more valuable as a rotational guy who could come in and shoot gaps, not hold up blockers.

   

• That's why I think switching to a one gap 3-4, along with adding another DE (Canty? C.J. Mosley?) makes a lot of sense. Let Corey do what he's best at, and make sure he's fresh enough to get to the QB

[JewDago]

though not exhaustive, madden ratings can be useful to compare players, especially their pure physical attributes. i know it's only a video game, but it's a tool that we have at our disposal nonetheless.

 

compared to richard seymour, here's how corey williams stacks up:

 

RS: SPD: 71 ACC: 80 STR: 92 AGI: 70 AWR: 88

 

CW: SPD: 70 ACC: 88 STR: 86 AGI: 65 AWR: 74

 

their speed is equal while williams supposedly has better short-area speed. seymour's a bit stronger and more agile, but that's to be expected. overall, aside from seymour's knowledge of the game, they're similar players.

 

i don't see how williams doesn't fit well as a 3-4 DE.

 

and i agree he'd be better in a one-gap scheme and on passing downs, but we don't have enough guys to play him only in passing situations. we have to work with what we've got right now.

[GRAVY_insane]

I'd be happy with Curry or Rey. They would bring much needed attitude and playmaking ability that this D needs.

I would prefer Curry based on his versatility and ability to be more of a "chess" piece for a stong D-Coordinator.

 

I really hope whoever is the GM this offseason picks the right guy for whatever sceme we will be running next season!

[Guest Aloysius]

Very funny, Alo!

 

Strangely, I read something on Curry this morning that made me think I might be off base as far as the 3-4. I didn't realize he was 250+ pounds, for one thing.

Scout.com's Chris Steuber's just did an interesting interview with Curry. In it, Curry says that he sees himself "as a Julius Peppers at the SAM linebacker. If you put one man on me, they’re not going to be able to block me."

 

It's worth reading the whole thing, though I can't resist quoting this part:

 

CS: Do you have film sessions with the same scouts from teams that regularly attend games or has it been multiple scouts from numerous teams?

 

Curry: It’s been multiple scouts. I’ve seen scouts from the Lions, Falcons, Dolphins, Patriots and Jaguars; they sent two or three scouts at a time. I’ve met with almost every team and like I said, a few teams have sent two or three scouts.

Man, I wish he'd mentioned the Browns. And I sincerely hope that the Jags aren't truly considering taking Curry with their 1st Round pick, which very easily could be before ours.

 

That would suck.

[DieselPusher]

Man, I wish he'd mentioned the Browns. And I sincerely hope that the Jags aren't truly considering taking Curry with their 1st Round pick, which very easily could be before ours.

 

That would suck

 

 

Remember, when Savage sees who he really wants, he doesn't make a big scouting prescence. He did nothing for Edwards and very little for Thomas. He may know he wants Curry and if he's available, otherwise he'll scout his options/second choices

[Riffer X]

Man, I wish he'd mentioned the Browns. And I sincerely hope that the Jags aren't truly considering taking Curry with their 1st Round pick, which very easily could be before ours.

 

That would suck

 

 

Remember, when Savage sees who he really wants, he doesn't make a big scouting prescence. He did nothing for Edwards and very little for Thomas. He may know he wants Curry and if he's available, otherwise he'll scout his options/second choices

 

Yeah, Phillip talks up guys he doesn't want to touch with a ten foot pole (Jafaticus Russell) and doesn't say a word about guys he wants (Thomas, Edwards, Queen to an extent and even Rogers as an FA).

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Good point, Diesel & Riff.

 

And I'm hoping that Phil wasn't seriously interested in Russell. IIRC, Chris Mortensen reported the day of the draft that Phil called Crazy Al about a possible trade-up, but Al's insane demands (our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Round picks + Kamerion Wimbley) were too steep.

[Geech]

Very funny, Alo!

 

Strangely, I read something on Curry this morning that made me think I might be off base as far as the 3-4. I didn't realize he was 250+ pounds, for one thing.

 

Guys I like: Curry, Rey, Orakpo, and Beanie.

 

FYI, Mike Mayock talks about Curry's "scheme versatility" in the video on this page of his top 20 senior prospects. He lists Curry as the #1 overall player.

 

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=090...mp;confirm=true

 

-Al

 

EDIT: BTW, great find on what to look for in 3-4 players, John.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Other then a few OTs, he doesn't have a skilled offensive player in his top 20. Something wrong with that. I guess it isn't set because the under clasmen haven't declared yet, but still, that's a little too one sided.

[JewDago]

he certainly seems to be rising faster than other prospects, at least on this board.

[Guest Aloysius]

FYI, Mike Mayock talks about Curry's "scheme versatility" in the video on this page of his top 20 senior prospects. He lists Curry as the #1 overall player.

 

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=090...mp;confirm=true

Thanks for linking to that, Al. The Mayock video is really interesting. Calling a prospect "the ultimate package" seems like pretty high praise.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Thanks for linking to that, Al. The Mayock video is really interesting. Calling a prospect "the ultimate package" seems like pretty high praise.

Scott Wright ranks him #1 (among seniors) as well:

 

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Rankings.php

 

[Flugel]

Thanks for linking to that, Al. The Mayock video is really interesting. Calling a prospect "the ultimate package" seems like pretty high praise.

 

When you're talking about LBer prospects - you HAVE to like the versatile guys that offer enough flexibility to play in a 3-4 or a 4-3. A big reason for that is if you look at the NE Patriots they never switched to a 3-4 because they PREFERRED the scheme when they first went to it. The season they first made the switch they had to because of all the unexpected injuries to their dline at the time. Starters were injured on and off and Klecko, their rotation guy, got injured as well so they did a msterful job at problem solving their way into a very fortunate fate with the alignment change.

 

Curry looks like he can play in any scheme AND like he can play inside or outside. Watching those highlights you treated us to in the other thread Aloy - I saw GREAT first step instincts. The kind that prevent him from needing to tell the coach he got blocked or why he wasn't back in coverage. He's already showing the know-how to strip the ball from the ballcarrier pre-draft. This is just my opinion so I'm sure others won't agree but the LESS prerequisites you need to teach kids - the better their chances of success are at the next level.

 

While I think players can ALWAYS learn, I just don't think a Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor needed to be invented by a Coach. Marvin Lewis didn't MAKE Ray Lewis. Throw in your favorite legend and notice your great ones came blessed with instincts that seperated them from ordinary. I'm not saying coaching isn't important - I'm just saying you want the guys where you only need to do some fine tuning and they're flexible enough for any system. You always hear Ray Lewis plays fast and ironically a disappointing 40 time had him down near the 26th or 27th pick of round 1. That said, this is one guy you throw away the 40 yard dash significance in lieu of how fast he shows up frequently on film. If you got a scout that knows what the hell he's doing - he can only see "plays fast" on film. That's what the adorable highlights of Curry show us too. I don't care what he runs his forty in after watching the footage of him.

- Tom F. (I always have queer-eye for LBers and RBs)

[Riffer X]

I'm starting to lean toward Wells.

 

It goes against all common sense to look at a back with an iffy injury history when we are so desperate to shore up this defense, but I've seen Lewis leave yards all over the field this year. Wells has great cutback ability and vision, which makes him a breakaway threat at any time. He also uses stiff arms with either hand that are lethal and is damn shifty for a guy his size.

 

To me, he satisfies two needs at back. One, he is the size needed in this division and for the winter months, and two, he still provides breakaway ability that this team lacks. Since RAC 'n ROLLS thinks Harrison will steal his M and M's stash if he plays him, we are still iffy on his status. I think both Harrison and Wells give us a pretty dynamic backfield as long as we get a coach in here that knows how to use them properly.

 

Sorry, I hate to think all pretty and prima donna-ish with the needs we have on defense ie. ILB (someone to pair with Jackson), OLB (someone who can get to the QB), DE (someone more athletic than Smith) or stud safety, but Queen and a dynamic and big back can really change the whole dynamic of this offense (Ryan/Turner). I think it makes the biggest impact, definitely more so than taking a stab at another Wimbley or something. Look what Gholston is doing this year, I'd rather see someone who can come in and seriously impact the team from the get go.

 

We could still keep Lewis and maybe Wright also, which gives insurance if Wells' injury history crops up.

 

I will say this, I ran into a guy at the gas station last year and we started rapping about the Buckeyes. When the subject of Wells came up, he told me he coached Wells in pee wees and on JV's. I don't know how much stock to put into this guy, but he certainly didn't seem to need to lie to impress me or anything. He said Wells has chronically bad ankles that are genetic. Basically, his tendons and ligaments aren't as strong as they should be and it runs in his family. However, this was last year when he was gimpy all season with an ankle problem, so this guy could literally be a crazy guy trying to act like he's an insider or something. Wells' issues this year had nothing to do with the ankles, it was just the freak toe thing. He also fought wrist issues in the past two seasons, but I don't envision him being as injury prone as people say. He's basically played through everything outside of the toe thing this year, so perhaps this says something about his toughness more than his being injury prone.

 

Even if he turns out to be a guy who only gives you 12 games a year, those 12 games he can be a huge impact. Good teams can function without their primary back, but that primary back can be massive in the games he does play.

[JewDago]

wells is a terrible idea with what we need on defense. if we can get curry, it really seems like that's what we should do. if we can't, there are other LB prospects that would benefit us more than taking wells (maualuga, cushing) or a safety in mays who hits like a linebacker. polamolu is the face of pittsburgh's D.

 

we're not talking about rushing the passer, here. we're talking about stopping the run and hitting people. it's a lot easier to project MLBs than it is pass rushers.

 

it's just easier to find impact RBs in later rounds than it is to find a ready-to-play LB. guys can be coached into form, but late-round RBs can make more of an impact as rookies than LBs can unless you've got a good scheme, which we don't know that we will.

 

while i agree that we need to upgrade our RB corps, it just makes more sense to go after a player who can impact the game more. a RB really only makes a difference when he's got the ball in his hands, which can happen, in the best-case scenario, thirty times a game.

 

a LB has a chance to impact the game on every play he's in.

[Riffer X]

wells is a terrible idea with what we need on defense. if we can get curry, it really seems like that's what we should do. if we can't, there are other LB prospects that would benefit us more than taking wells (maualuga, cushing) or a safety in mays who hits like a linebacker. polamolu is the face of pittsburgh's D.

 

we're not talking about rushing the passer, here. we're talking about stopping the run and hitting people. it's a lot easier to project MLBs than it is pass rushers.

 

it's just easier to find impact RBs in later rounds than it is to find a ready-to-play LB. guys can be coached into form, but late-round RBs can make more of an impact as rookies than LBs can unless you've got a good scheme, which we don't know that we will.

 

while i agree that we need to upgrade our RB corps, it just makes more sense to go after a player who can impact the game more. a RB really only makes a difference when he's got the ball in his hands, which can happen, in the best-case scenario, thirty times a game.

 

a LB has a chance to impact the game on every play he's in.

 

Those are good points Jew, but I think Wells is a dynamic back given his whole package. Just as you can find backs in round two or three, I don't believe you can get what Wells brings to the table.

 

I think you can score with a backer in round two or three.

 

Again, I'm looking at immediate impact here, and a guy like Wells can affect this team dramatically from the get go more than a ILB can IMO.

 

That being said, I'll probably change my mind twenty times before the draft.

[lemosley01]

I will say this, I ran into a guy at the gas station last year and we started rapping about the Buckeyes. When the subject of Wells came up, he told me he coached Wells in pee wees and on JV's. I don't know how much stock to put into this guy, but he certainly didn't seem to need to lie to impress me or anything. He said Wells has chronically bad ankles that are genetic. Basically, his tendons and ligaments aren't as strong as they should be and it runs in his family. However, this was last year when he was gimpy all season with an ankle problem, so this guy could literally be a crazy guy trying to act like he's an insider or something. Wells' issues this year had nothing to do with the ankles, it was just the freak toe thing. He also fought wrist issues in the past two seasons, but I don't envision him being as injury prone as people say. He's basically played through everything outside of the toe thing this year, so perhaps this says something about his toughness more than his being injury prone.

 

I call BS - how would this guy know that Wells ankle problems (if any) are 'genetic'.

 

I find it hard to believe the guy has made it this far without a pretty consistent injury history at the college level. I'm not saying he definitely doesn't have a problem, but how would a peewee/JV coach know anything about his genetics?

 

However, I think RB is below the need for LB/DL and maybe even wide receiver. If all of our favorit Defensive guys are off the board at that point (highly doubtful), I'd try and dump the pick on someone else. Maybe get two firsts out of the next draft when we have a year under the new coach and no who really can't perform and who was just a victim of scheme/poor coaching.

 

As far as CB's go, I don't think drafting one in the first round is the right answer - who's going to teach him on the field? I'd say look for an experienced CB in free agency.

[JewDago]

@ riffer: i agree that you can get a LB in two or three, just not one that's the quality that curry, maualuga, spikes or cushing are. the RBs that we'd get later maybe wouldn't be as complete as wells, but i'm not a believer that RBs need to be complete players to succeed. guys like purple jesus and LdT (before he broke down) are great, but they only come along about every five years or so, and i don't think that wells is that kind of back.

 

as far as a RB vs LB having more immediate impact, i think that's a philosophical difference. looking at the vikings, they were already a strong running team when they got purple jesus, and he put them over the top and transformed them into a great running team. had he gone to a bad running team, i don't think he'd have the success he does.

 

i will admit that we'd be a much better running team with a better RB.

 

however, if you look at what patrick willis did for san francisco, his presence alone changed that defense. he makes plays all over the field and changes games.

[Guest Aloysius]

If we end up drafting any lower than 5th, I'm thinking Curry's gone.

Jacksonville just beat the Packers, which puts them at 5-9. As long as we stay ahead of Jax in the draft order, I think we have a very good chance of getting Curry.

 

[We need Tom Tupa]

Jacksonville just beat the Packers, which puts them at 5-9. As long as we stay ahead of Jax in the draft order, I think we have a very good chance of getting Curry.

I agree. There have only been 2 top 5 LBs in the past 10 years, and I doubt this year's this year's top 5 will make it past the QBs, O-line, and Crabtree. Of course, it's almost impossible to tell this far in advance. At least a handful of day one players will drop or move up a full round between now and Spring.

[Guest Aloysius]

Curry looks like he can play in any scheme AND like he can play inside or outside. Watching those highlights you treated us to in the other thread Aloy - I saw GREAT first step instincts. The kind that prevent him from needing to tell the coach he got blocked or why he wasn't back in coverage. He's already showing the know-how to strip the ball from the ballcarrier pre-draft. This is just my opinion so I'm sure others won't agree but the LESS prerequisites you need to teach kids - the better their chances of success are at the next level.

Great point, Tom. In this clip, Mayock talks about Curry's great instincts, how he "trusts what he sees." When I first saw Curry blow up that screen play in the Ole Miss game, I thought to myself, "Okay, this is the guy we need."

 

And you're right about him being good at stripping & recovering the ball. I love that play against Virginia where he grabs the running back, strips the ball with his right hand, then dives & cradles the ball with his left hand. Great stuff.

 

Even in games where he's been less than dominant this season (like the BC game), those talents have a way of popping up. He notched a bunch of tackles in that game, recovered a fumble, and tackled BC's QB so hard that he had to leave the game. And that was probably Curry's worst game of the season.

 

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: because Curry plays 4-3 SLB, he's got a lot of experience covering TE's. For a while, it seemed like Leon Williams was going to develop into our athletic TE-covering linebacker, but he's regressed this year.

 

It's probably not a coincidence that two of our worst defensive performances this year involved TE's running through our defense (Jason Witten's 6 catches, 96 yards Week 1; Denver's two TE's combining for 7 catches, 142 yards & a TD Week 10).

 

Curry would help prevent those TE's from running through our defense. Though I don't think Maualuga's coverage issues are as bad as some have made them out to be, he probably wouldn't be able to do the same for our defense.

[Flugel]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: because Curry plays 4-3 SLB, he's got a lot of experience covering TE's. For a while, it seemed like Leon Williams was going to develop into our athletic TE-covering linebacker, but he's regressed this year.

 

Thanks Aloy!

 

The thing about Leon Williams that jumps out at me is that his mental mistakes at Miami kept getting him yanked from the starting lineup. He's ambitious, works hard and hustles but does he have that first step instinct we're talking about? If he did, he would have remained a starter at Miami AND he could have become one here. He's a nice kid to have around for kick coverage teams but I doubt we'll ever teach him instinct for anything more.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with any of these 3 kids:

Rey, Curry or Taylor Mays (only if the first 2 are off the board though).

 

BTW, did you watch the 60 Minutes special on Pete Carroll last night? The highlight they showed of USC was a long interception return for a TD by Rey. It's not the same one I saw in his All American films BUT it certainly reassures his BIGTIME playmaking appeal. How many times do we see Ray Lewis taking interceptions for TDs? Right place + right time = Instincts we need. I want that guy that beats the intended receiver to the ball in his hook zone. If you're 1 step too slow - you're always tackling the guy after the catch. Curry shows me the same type of appeal. You've done a great job of showing us he needs to count in our first round consideration.

 

We need to be careful about getting too caught up in stats folks. Want an example? Steve Slaton. Who saw him coming? He's the type of guy that you break out the film on and see MORE than his stats will show you. Another example was Wali Rainer. Back when he played. people on our old board were upset his tackle volume didn't get recognized while they forgot to realize Corey Dillon always seemed to be closing in on 200 yards by the 3rd quarter on all the cutback runs crossing Wali's face. What I liked about Wali was he never gave up on a play so even though he rarely made tackles where we needed him to - he usually got the guy 20 yards down field on pursuit angles. Horrible football instincts but pursuit angles are COACHABLES that you can equip your non-instictive types with.

- Tom F.

[JewDago]

something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.

 

cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.

 

watch where the play is going and get there. that he can't do.

 

of course, we're running the second.

[Guest Aloysius]

I agree, JD. Leon showed some ability as a pass-rusher last year; IIRC, he had 3 sacks in the last two games of the season.

 

He doesn't have any special moves, but he's got the straight-line speed (4.54 40) necessary to get to the QB. I wish we would have given him some more opportunities to showcase those skills, possibly by moving him out to OLB.

 

I didn't watch the Carroll interview last night, Tom. But if you like LB's who make plays in coverage, you'll absolutely love Curry. Last year, he had 4 picks & returned 3 of them for TD's.

 

[Flugel]

something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.

 

cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.

 

True but he cannot dictate run or pass from the opponent so if he's downfield covering a TE on a running play - he's exactly where the opponent wants him. Smart OC's are watching us on film and the guy with the best instincts out there is old enough for granchildren (Willie McGinest). Wimbley is supposed to be playing the (elephant) which is usually rush the passer BUT as we saw vrs Buffalo - he also has walkoff responsibilities which means we even want him thinking in terms of strong side vrs weakside. It's a waste of time to bring in guys that were deemed too stupid to stay on the field in college. Leon Williams was that guy. Not sure how someone thought it would be easier for him at the next level but they did. Not only that, but he came to a defensive scheme where LBers need to be smart and instinctive for that defense to succeed. Gotta believe there was better out there or we could have kept our STs ace Chaun Thompson. That guy used to make tackles on kickoffs at the opponent's 10 yard line and he was an animal blocking for Cribbs. If that's not enough, he weighs 260 poundsa, runs faster than every LBer except maybe Wimbley and would have been STRONG enough to man down an ILBer spot IMO.

 

I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"

- Tom F. (I miss all those 80s defenses that liked to play kill the guy with the ball! That was my favorite playground game as a kid. Today they play that game on computers as we wonder what happened to the art of tackling)

[Guest Aloysius]

I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"

Ha. Sounds good to me.