Mel Kiper on the Super Bowl

[Guest mz.]

Tyler (Hilton, New York): Who do you think is the best team in the NFL right now? And who do you think will win the super bowl?

 

SportsNation Mel Kiper: (1:44 PM ET ) That's the million dollar question!

 

SportsNation Mel Kiper: (1:49 PM ET ) Just because they find ways to win, I say the Steelers. In the NFL, you have to be able to win close games and the Steelers have shown that they can finish games. The Colts are getting it together and they aren't far behind. In the NFC, the Giants are the most talented but I don't think they can overcome the Burress loss. It's not easy to put them back in the Super Bowl but it can happen. Carolina is coming up and is a threat. They are the two best teams in the NFC and they play each other this Sunday and it should be a great game.

[rich4eagle]

mz the pussy, I pretty much agree with Kiper..........although I would put Dallas and Tenn in the mix as well. USA Today ranks the Steelers number one and have the others tied for second including Tennessee and not including Indy whom they have behind the other five. I think Tenn will fail in the playoffs and the Giants as well.

 

So, I say Steelers or Indy in the AFC vs Carolina or Dallas in the NFC

[Guest Masters]

DAL?!?!?!?! They are still on the outside looking in for the playoffs, Wade Philips is the HC, and Romo has yet to show up in the playoffs. No way do they get there. CAR or NYG in the NFC.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

mz the pussy, I pretty much agree with Kiper..........although I would put Dallas and Tenn in the mix as well. USA Today ranks the Steelers number one and have the others tied for second including Tennessee and not including Indy whom they have behind the other five. I think Tenn will fail in the playoffs and the Giants as well.

 

So, I say Steelers or Indy in the AFC vs Carolina or Dallas in the NFC

Dallas may not even make it...they play Baltimore (only recent losses to Steelers and Giants, both defensive teams), and then they play @Philadelphia (on a 3 game winning streak).

 

[Guest mz.]

I obviously hate to agree with Kiper on this one, but I too see the Steelers as the class of the AFC right now.

 

BAL, sad to say, is probably the biggest threat to PIT right now, if they make the playoffs (great time to be a Browns fan...). TEN is banged up (Vanden Bosch and Haynesworth out until the playoffs and who knows if they'll be 100% when it starts), IND is banged up (Sanders and Addai are battling injuries), The contenders in the AFCE (NE, NYJ, MIA) are all decent teams but all have major flaws, and the AFCW stinks.

[JewDago]

@ rich: USA Today? it's the worst, most dumbed down newspaper on the planet. believing them is like thinking a michael moore documentary is factually accurate or that bush actually won florida in 2000 and ohio in 2004.

[rich4eagle]

@ rich: USA Today? it's the worst, most dumbed down newspaper on the planet. believing them is like thinking a michael moore documentary is factually accurate or that bush actually won florida in 2000 and ohio in 2004.

 

I didn't say I believed USA, I just provided their ranking. I made my own position clear..........once again I think either the Steelers or Indy will emege from the AFC and Carolina or Dallas from the NFC. Now if Dallas does not make the playoffs I would Carolina is odds on favorite.

 

And I do agree with mz the pussy and others about Bmore being the outside chance because of a great D. I think however, it will be real hard for a rookie QB to take them to the house

 

 

 

USA is not dumbed down and Michael Moore is right on most of the time..........so you must be tuned into dumbed down politics

[Guest Masters]

 

I agree with that laughing. Moore gets it right about as much as the Bush administration does. It's one extream of angled propoganda vs. the other end.

[Bob806]

Don't forget about Tampa Bay in the NFC....I know they've lost 2 straight, but Gruden is probably the 2nd best coach in the NFL (behind our buddy BB in NE).

AFC-wise, if Pitt gets home field, they're going to the Superbowl. I still think Indy & NE are dangerous, and wouldn't be shocked to see Tenn lose it's first game at home.

[Guest mz.]

wouldn't be shocked to see Tenn lose it's first game at home.

 

TEN is a GREAT team w/ Haynesworth, very pedestrian without him. If he plays, they could go pretty far. If not, I agree with you.

 

[rich4eagle]

 

 

Been around the block 500 times............Moore gets it more than nearly all....................of course we can all still claim the world is flat which was nearly uninanimous in 1490 ........and Masters would fit right in with 1490............where do you fit.........NOW or 1490?

[rich4eagle]

Sorry, I have viewed some of his movies and he is usually more factual than our newspapers and TV and other news sites...........

 

Like I said I been there in the arena fighting the bulls have you????????????

 

anyway......thanks for the message thanking me for the game

 

while yu piss on my informed view about informed Moore's movies and viewpoint

 

Sumtimes............the dirt is indeed in the homeland and our great nation has been very dirty for some time now'

 

TIME TO GET BACK TO OUR ROOTS WAVING THE FLAG OF FREEDOM AND DEFENDING IT>>>>>>>>>INSTEAD OF ABUSING IT

[Guest mz.]

he'd make a helluva marketing executive though.

 

Nah. The ad bidness, believe it or not, upholds standards.

[Guest Masters]

Nah. The ad bidness, believe it or not, upholds standards.

 

It's still about selling a product or agenda (ala the show Mad Men). Michael Moore is exactly that. There is truth to his movies, but there are also missing facts, missing quotes from his interviews, etc. Editing can always make someones quotes look a certain way. He has as much truthyness to him as Steven Colbert.

[rich4eagle]

You are full of crap.....if you researched what Moore does you will find his research provides a lot of factual stuff that media and our nation pushes under the rug

 

but you know everything about losing Masters keep doing your thing

 

But then again when his stuff is proven correct and my view as well........you will discount that as well and go on to another factless loser opinion................like how the economy is now strong

 

you see you pissed on Moore but never presented a single thing where he was dead ass wrong...........which again is your mo

[Guest mz.]

It's still about selling a product or agenda (ala the show Mad Men).

 

I understand that (I work in the business). If Moore* "fictionalizes" something, he gets called out for it. If we "fictionalize" something, we actually get in trouble.

 

*I like Michael Moore, FWIW.

 

[Guest Masters]

I understand that (I work in the business). If Moore* "fictionalizes" something, he gets called out for it. If we "fictionalize" something, we actually get in trouble.

 

*I like Michael Moore, FWIW.

 

Oh, I am not saying he fictionalizing (I also work in marketing as well). What he does is angles his information to fit his agenda. Use the facts that fit. Kind of like how people can use studies to do that.

 

[Guest mz.]

What he does is angles his information to fit his agenda.

 

Of course he does.

 

[Guest Masters]

You are full of crap.....if you researched what Moore does you will find his research provides a lot of factual stuff that media and our nation pushes under the rug

 

but you know everything about losing Masters keep doing your thing

 

But then again when his stuff is proven correct and my view as well........you will discount that as well and go on to another factless loser opinion................like how the economy is now strong

 

you see you pissed on Moore but never presented a single thing where he was dead ass wrong...........which again is your mo

 

I am fully aware of Michael Moore. I have seen his movies.

 

Would you like me to point out the numerous people he has interviewed who have shown that he didn't show half of the other things they said in his interview of them which went against what he was trying to portray of the person or their positions?

 

I never said he doesn't present facts. Just that he only presents the facts that support his position and leaves out those that go against his. Like I just said to mz the pussy, Moore works in the way studies work. It shows truths, but they are already setup to show a point and intentionally angled to show what they want you to see.

 

My MO to not show where wrong (like your view when proven correct)? Is that like where you talk about Thomas getting man handled by Mario Williams, yet Williams had one tackle and zero sacks? How about where I point the teams you point at success having all those high draft picks on OL? Maybe where I point out you only show up to kick the Browns and fans when they are down, but are no where to be found when they are doing well?

 

And of course the economy is doing bad. But unlike you, I won't point only to the Bush administration for that. Seeing as how the down turn actually started under Clintons watch with the .com boom and the major housing cost/loans beginning under his. Or how it continued to get worse even under a democratically controlled congress. Though I do not leave Bush w/o fault either.

[Guest Masters]

Of course he does.

 

And for that, I actually applaud him. Don't like the guy, but he is certainly good at what he does, and I'll always tip my hat to someone for that.

[Guest Masters]

You are full of crap.....if you researched what Moore does you will find his research provides a lot of factual stuff that media and our nation pushes under the rug

 

you see you pissed on Moore but never presented a single thing where he was dead ass wrong...........which again is your mo

 

Here, let me give you a few false items seen in his 9/11 movie (I won't even touch Bowling for Colombine since he even admitted to it being more of a mocumentary).

 

1. The Gore “victory” rally isn’t celebrating a Florida win. It was held before the polls had even opened

2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida mistake was CBS, not Fox.

3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.

4. 4.

Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly

disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly thought to have felony convictions.

5. Bush’s Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble. No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president.

Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience “I call you my base,” was from an October 2000 charity fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.

6.“In his first eight months in office before September 11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.” As the Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and includes time in “vacation locations” such as Camp David, where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair.

7.In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie), Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He called the press together to make a quick statement condemning the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking about attacks on the United States.

8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.

9. The Briefing did not say “said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.” It said that the FBI has “not been able to corroborate” such a threat.

10. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11 Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures,

and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.

11. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit discloses Clarke’s decision to the audience. Clarke called the Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a “mistake” by Moore.

12. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11 Commission found that many Saudis were asked “detailed questions” before being allowed to leave.

13. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money in Bush’s energy company Arbusto. He invested his own money.

14. Bath’s name was blacked-out from an Alabama National Guard record released by the White House—as required by federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related personal information.

15. Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S. government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not a Bush invention.

Moore claims that the Saudis “own 7% of America.” But even if you believe Unger’s fictitious $860 billion figure, the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of America were owned by foreigners could Moore’s claim be correct.

16.The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection. It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the

U.S. Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the U.S. requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for protection.

17. Moore’s insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War (which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will compete with Saudi oil).

18. John Ashcroft didn’t really lose a Senate election to a “dead guy.” Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks before the election, and the Missouri Governor had promised to appoint Carnahan’s widow Jean Carnahan if voters pulled the lever for Mel Carnahan.

19. The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in 1998.

20. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.

21. Construction has not begun on the new pipeline. Although Moore claims that “Enron stood to benefit” from the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either pipeline.

 

Would you like some more?

[Guest mz.]

7.In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie), Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He called the press together to make a quick statement condemning the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking about attacks on the United States.

 

 

Who cares what terrorist attacks Bush was talking about here? Still flippant beyond belief.

[Guest Masters]

 

Who cares what terrorist attacks Bush was talking about here? Still flippant beyond belief.

 

I don't disagree that it is a flippant remark at all. My only point is that it is an example of twisting a fact to portray and fit a different agenda. It is a truth, but one shown falsly.

 

[rich4eagle]

Here, let me give you a few false items seen in his 9/11 movie (I won't even touch Bowling for Colombine since he even admitted to it being more of a mocumentary).

 

1. The Gore "victory" rally isn't celebrating a Florida win. It was held before the polls had even opened

2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida mistake was CBS, not Fox.

3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.

4. 4.

Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly

disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly thought to have felony convictions.

5. Bush's Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble. No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president.

Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience "I call you my base," was from an October 2000 charity fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.

6."In his first eight months in office before September 11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time." As the Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and includes time in "vacation locations" such as Camp David, where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair.

7.In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie), Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He called the press together to make a quick statement condemning the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking about attacks on the United States.

8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.

9. The Briefing did not say "said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes." It said that the FBI has "not been able to corroborate" such a threat.

10. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11 Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures,

and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.

11. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit discloses Clarke's decision to the audience. Clarke called the Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a "mistake" by Moore.

12. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11 Commission found that many Saudis were asked "detailed questions" before being allowed to leave.

13. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money in Bush's energy company Arbusto. He invested his own money.

14. Bath's name was blacked-out from an Alabama National Guard record released by the White House—as required by federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related personal information.

15. Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S. government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not a Bush invention.

Moore claims that the Saudis "own 7% of America." But even if you believe Unger's fictitious $860 billion figure, the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of America were owned by foreigners could Moore's claim be correct.

16.The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection. It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the

U.S. Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the U.S. requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for protection.

17. Moore's insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War (which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will compete with Saudi oil).

18. John Ashcroft didn't really lose a Senate election to a "dead guy." Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks before the election, and the Missouri Governor had promised to appoint Carnahan's widow Jean Carnahan if voters pulled the lever for Mel Carnahan.

19. The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in 1998.

20. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.

21. Construction has not begun on the new pipeline. Although Moore claims that "Enron stood to benefit" from the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either pipeline.

 

Would you like some more?

 

So you are republican applauding the last eight years of disaster and living in denial............and blaming Clinton and Thomas Jefferson for the last eight years debacle and the war based on lies and the trickle down economic disaster..........why would one have wondered otherwise...........YOUR MO is what it is...........DENIAL is your politics and DENIAL is your fandom..........

 

get it??????????? of course you do not!!! One cannot debate with one who chooses to ignore the issues and meaningful facts and draws needles out of haystacks to construct arguments.......and that is you my friend..............keep living in denial and blaming the problems in the US and the Browns on everything but the true causes..................hopeless in Denial

[Mr. T]

Moore's best movie was Canadian Bacon! and mz the pussy thought it was a documentary

[Guest Masters]

So you are republican applauding the last eight years of disaster and living in denial............and blaming Clinton and Thomas Jefferson for the last eight years debacle and the war based on lies and the trickle down economic disaster..........why would one have wondered otherwise...........YOUR MO is what it is...........DENIAL is your politics and DENIAL is your fandom..........

 

get it??????????? of course you do not!!! One cannot debate with one who chooses to ignore the issues and meaningful facts and draws needles out of haystacks to construct arguments.......and that is you my friend..............keep living in denial and blaming the problems in the US and the Browns on everything but the true causes..................hopeless in Denial

 

Way to dodge Rich, way to dodge.

 

I haven't applauded all 8 years. Mearly pointed out a handful of untruths in Moores documentary. Notice how you don't even try to debate what the subject was. Your MO.

 

Only person in denial is you good buddy.

 

And if you believe the economy is solely on the Bush administration, it shows how little you know your history, the economic cycles, or how many decisions of presidencies take many years to really have a national effect. You can take savings and loan, Enron, and other issues back to Clinton admin failures as well as George H Bush's admin.

[Solon16]

I haven't applauded all 8 years. Mearly pointed out a handful of untruths in Moores documentary. Notice how you don't even try to debate what the subject was.

 

Classic!

[Guest Masters]

I haven't applauded all 8 years. Mearly pointed out a handful of untruths in Moores documentary. Notice how you don't even try to debate what the subject was.

 

Classic!

 

He is who he is. Just like saying Thomas got man handled by Mario Williams, then hinds when it's pointed out that Williams had 1 tackle and zero sacks against Thomas.