REAL Browns fans answer a question please

[djdawg2010]

Hardly. The owners voted for the "move" because it came as a result of the brokered deal that was made between the NFL, the two cities, and Modell. It was their respect for Tagliabue and his efforts to obtain a settlement they had respect for, not Modell. The couple of negative votes were essentially token votes both in support of Cleveland. (one was Ralph Wilson, I believe the other was either Dan Rooney or Al Davis)

 

 

It was Rooney. The Steelers were pissed about killing the Browns Steelers rivalry. And rightfully so!

[djdawg2010]

Since I am younger my question to everyone is this: Is the new browns "The Browns" or is the old browns (Ravens) always gonna be the same franchise you connected to in the past?

 

 

The new Browns are the Browns, and the Ravens are the Ravens, period. We kept the name history and colors. Unfortunately the new Browns can't seem to tie to the great past of the Cleveland Browns which was WINNING! I'm hoping that we finally got it right by bringing in Holmgren.

[Zombo]

Since I am younger my question to everyone is this: Is the new browns "The Browns" or is the old browns (Ravens) always gonna be the same franchise you connected to in the past?

 

The Browns are the Browns.

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Since I am younger my question to everyone is this: Is the new browns "The Browns" or is the old browns (Ravens) always gonna be the same franchise you connected to in the past?

 

OYY. Come on Man! There is no such thing as new or old Browns. There has NEVER been a change in the franchise.

The Ravens were a new franchise established in 1996. Ownership of that was granted to Modell (who did in fact pay a pretty hefty sum to the other NFL owners for the privilege), plus he did take some personell with him there...front office people mostly and some players....but not the coaching staff.

[djdawg2010]

OYY. Come on Man! There is no such thing as new or old Browns. There has NEVER been a change in the franchise.

The Ravens were a new franchise established in 1996. Ownership of that was granted to Modell (who did in fact pay a pretty hefty sum to the other NFL owners for the privilege), plus he did take some personell with him there...front office people mostly and some players....but not the coaching staff.

 

 

That is exactly the way I look at it. And that is the way it is. When Modell shed the Browns name, none of the records associated to the Cleveland Browns are in anyway, shape or form connected or shared with the Baltimore Ravens. All of that is attached to the new regime. As it should be. It's almost like when an owner sells the team.

[Go 'Losers]

I tried to imagine if that happened to the Steelers...

 

There would be no way I'd ever get over, never forget the agony of loosing a team, nor would I stop harboring hatred to whoever moves the team.

 

The Rooney's wouldn't do that, the thought is too frightening to even think. It would be as surreal as Mr. Rogers chasing after you with a baseball bat.

 

One shinning thing would be the immense joy of getting a team back though YAH!!!

[djdawg2010]

I tried to imagine if that happened to the Steelers...

 

There would be no way I'd ever get over, never forget the agony of loosing a team, nor would I stop harboring hatred to whoever moves the team.

 

The Rooney's wouldn't do that, the thought is too frightening to even think. It would be as surreal as Mr. Rogers chasing after you with a baseball bat.

 

One shinning thing would be the immense joy of getting a team back though YAH!!!

 

 

And trust me we felt that joy here. Just disappointed that 11 years later we're still struggling. I mean, there is progress, but the previous coaching and front offices really screwed up on the drafts IMO! Who would have ever thought that the Browns would have ever moved?! You know, as much as I don't like the Steelers, I wouldn't wish that on you, and like you guys, as a Browns fan I'd be pretty pissed too, because of the rivalry aspect.

[BubbyBumbster]

Modell is A-OK in my book. It was fun when he was the owner of the Browns because they were competitive. Cleveland built a new baseball stadium and a basketball arena but did not want to build a football stadium (and this is supposed to be a football town.)

 

The colts did leave Baltimore for Indy and won a Super Bowl and are successful year after year. The browns left Cleveland AKA the Ravens under Modell and won a Super Bowl and are competitive year after year.

 

The only team that never became competitive is the Browns.

 

Cleveland showed Modell the door. What was he supposed to do?

 

 

 

 

[TheClevelandSound]

OYY. Come on Man! There is no such thing as new or old Browns. There has NEVER been a change in the franchise.

The Ravens were a new franchise established in 1996. Ownership of that was granted to Modell (who did in fact pay a pretty hefty sum to the other NFL owners for the privilege), plus he did take some personell with him there...front office people mostly and some players....but not the coaching staff.

 

Ive just heard so many testimonies from fans saying "Yeah this is the Browns but it felt so different before they left. It doesn't feel like the same team."

[djdawg2010]

Ive just heard so many testimonies from fans saying "Yeah this is the Browns but it felt so different before they left. It doesn't feel like the same team."

 

 

It doesn't feel like the same team, because of the lack of success.

[TheClevelandSound]

It doesn't feel like the same team, because of the lack of success.

 

Well when I ask the usual suspect why it doesn't feel the same, the average reply is "New stadium which is sterile and doesn't have the feel of the old one. No more white face masks, different looking uniforms, and overall attitude of the team"

 

 

[1 more season]

Yea, its like saying "So and so is a good man. He was a good father, a good husband, a good businessman..but there was just that little matter of a homicide he committed. He should be given a break for that, shouldn't he?" Like this guy:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38535909/18781812

 

 

Are you talking about Ray Lewis? ; )

[djdawg2010]

Modell is A-OK in my book. It was fun when he was the owner of the Browns because they were competitive. Cleveland built a new baseball stadium and a basketball arena but did not want to build a football stadium (and this is supposed to be a football town.)

 

The colts did leave Baltimore for Indy and won a Super Bowl and are successful year after year. The browns left Cleveland AKA the Ravens under Modell and won a Super Bowl and are competitive year after year.

 

The only team that never became competitive is the Browns.

 

Cleveland showed Modell the door. What was he supposed to do?

 

 

Jesus Christ, another troll???!!!

 

WTF are you talking about???? The Browns are the #1 sports team in Cleveland. Always have been, always will. They sell out no matter what. You cannot make the same case for the Indians and Cavs! When they suck nobody goes. Watch what happens to the Cavs when they struggle. OK, so it's been awhile since anyone in Cleveland has won anything but here is a list of the last championship by team:

 

Browns 1964

Indians 1948

Cavs... never

 

The Browns have had a lot more success since 1964 than the other 2. Aside from the run in the 90s and in 2007, the Indians have been horrible. The Cavs have been good the past few years, and they have fared better recently, but I can guarantee you the excitement that this city had for the Cavs will be NOTHING compared to when the Browns get back to being a contender. That I can promise you. It was absolutely ELECTRIC in this town from 1985-1989!

[1 more season]

That's your problem ... we took care of our business.

 

That said it. Browns fans fought for the bane colors history.

 

I'm pretty sure that art had his run ins with the NFL's old guard ownership too. I don't think they supported him with his move as much as they wanted to protect their own right to move.

[BubbyBumbster]

you did not want to build a stadium for the Browns. Modell left and won a Super Bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ, another troll???!!!

 

WTF are you talking about???? The Browns are the #1 sports team in Cleveland. Always have been, always will. They sell out no matter what. You cannot make the same case for the Indians and Cavs! When they suck nobody goes. Watch what happens to the Cavs when they struggle. OK, so it's been awhile since anyone in Cleveland has won anything but here is a list of the last championship by team:

 

Browns 1964

Indians 1948

Cavs... never

 

The Browns have had a lot more success since 1964 than the other 2. Aside from the run in the 90s and in 2007, the Indians have been horrible. The Cavs have been good the past few years, and they have fared better recently, but I can guarantee you the excitement that this city had for the Cavs will be NOTHING compared to when the Browns get back to being a contender. That I can promise you. It was absolutely ELECTRIC in this town from 1985-1989!

 

[DawgTracker]

Browns fans will not forget what modell did. If he is voted into the hall of fame it will be a nasty situation in canton for the induction.

 

I do believe that the mayor of cleveland is also very guilty of what happened though. The mayor refused to do anything regarding a new stadium because there was a rule that said the nfl would not move a team that was being supported. Because of this the mayor felt he held all the cards and wouldn't deal with modell.

[BubbyBumbster]

The city gave sweetheart stadium deals to both the Cavaliers and Indians and left Modell, who had Cleveland's most popular and successful franchise at the time, with a sub-standard offer.

 

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3129

[ATENEARS]

The city gave sweetheart stadium deals to both the Cavaliers and Indians and left Modell, who had Cleveland's most popular and successful franchise at the time, with a sub-standard offer.

 

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3129

 

Keep researching. Google Modell getting offered to be in the Gateway project first and turned it down, stating "Take care of the Indians first". Also look up who the Indians crappy ass landlord was through the time period. The bottoline problem was, that Art Modell didn't know business well enough to know what to ask for and how to get it. That is until he took the easy "selling out" method. He sold his soul ... I hope his lunch runs through him and down his leg in public this afternoon. the bastard.

 

The Cavs moved also my little green behind the ears friend, they moved to Cleveland.

[ATENEARS]

 

There's a Hall of Famer ... yyyyeah, right.

[StrangeBru]

I just posted this on another thread here being a brand new poster. I am not a "REAL" Browns fan but I think what I posted is relavent

Like I mentioned on another thread, I am a fan of the Ravens but not how Baltimore got the team. I also understand that most people here feel the same way about Modell as I feel about Irsay, but the one classy thing that Art Modell did was leave the history, colors, and team name in Cleveland. Before I get chastised for saying anything about the move was classy, just think about how we feel in Baltimore when ever we see the Indianapolis Colts. Go to the HOF and Johnny Unitas, Lenny Moore, Art Donovan, Raymond Barry, et al are in the Indianapolis Colts section. Even when Baltimore got a CFL team for two years they couldn't use the team name Colts, even though it was a different league that had two teams with the same name (Rough Riders, and Roughriders) another team with the same name as an NFL franchise (BC Lions) and the Edmonton Eskimos whose uniforms look nearly identical to the Packers. I realize that there was a fan wide (since I know the Browns fan base is much larger than just Cleveland) petition to keep those things in Cleveland, but as I stated about the Colts above, without the owner agreeing to do so it wouldn't have happened.

 

http://www.nflteamhistory.com/nfl_franchise_nicknames.html

scroll down to the Colts name history.

 

[StrangeBru]

Keep researching. Google Modell getting offered to be in the Gateway project first and turned it down, stating "Take care of the Indians first". Also look up who the Indians crappy ass landlord was through the time period. The bottoline problem was, that Art Modell didn't know business well enough to know what to ask for and how to get it. That is until he took the easy "selling out" method. He sold his soul ... I hope his lunch runs through him and down his leg in public this afternoon. the bastard.

 

The Cavs moved also my little green behind the ears friend, they moved to Cleveland.

 

One other thing about the move to Baltimore that you left out.

 

Art Modell also voted against Baltimore getting one of the last two expansion teams before he moved his team. Looking back why did he not vote to put teams in Baltimore and St. Louis if not for his own desire to move his team to one of those cities? Charlotte North Carolina may have been a good decision in hindsight, but in Jacksonville, aside from recent blackouts for TV audiences in the area, usually covers entire sections of the stadium for Jaguars games and sells out for Gators, when they do play there, games in the same stadium. If the two expansion teams were moved to Baltimore and St. Louis instead of Jacksonville and Carolina there would still be an NFL team in Los Angeles (a popular landing place for the Jaguars in rumors) and Cleveland would have never had a 3 year hiatus.

[sisky fringo]

First of all let me say that I have been a frequent visitor to this site, and I admire the passion of the REAL Browns fans on this board. Also, the knowledge of the game of football exhibited by Browns fans on this site trumps that of some of the fans on my Ravens message board. So with that in mind, I want to ask those fans a question...

 

As a Baltimore Ravens fan, I'm asking...are the REAL Browns fans over the move to Baltimore by Art Modell?

 

Keep in mind that Iam an old Baltimore Colts fan who still harbors a grudge with anything named Irsay. The two moves aren't comparable, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to hear the opinions of the REAL Cleveland football fans. Steeler fans, keep your dirty opinions to yourself.

RF96,

 

i have read some of your posts on the board and fwiw, your incredibly respectful demeaner has granted you the courtesy of a response from me.

 

regarding the topic at hand, sorry, i cannot comment at this time...as the wounds from that debacle are still infinitely fresh and to even consider replying incites vulgar and maliciously vicious responses i can rarely recover from without enough rampant drug use to leave Robert Downey JR and Corey Haim, RIP, impressed beyond measure.

 

let's just leave it at that.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

First of all let me say that I have been a frequent visitor to this site, and I admire the passion of the REAL Browns fans on this board. Also, the knowledge of the game of football exhibited by Browns fans on this site trumps that of some of the fans on my Ravens message board. So with that in mind, I want to ask those fans a question...

 

As a Baltimore Ravens fan, I'm asking...are the REAL Browns fans over the move to Baltimore by Art Modell?

 

Keep in mind that Iam an old Baltimore Colts fan who still harbors a grudge with anything named Irsay. The two moves aren't comparable, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to hear the opinions of the REAL Cleveland football fans. Steeler fans, keep your dirty opinions to yourself.

My only Opinion is You RatBird Fans are Scum... I Remember Vividly the "Pep Rally" in Baltimore during the Announcement that your City had Hi-Jacked the Browns. I as a Steeler fan was Pissed (You Stole or Main Rival) . My Opinion of you sorry Town has only grown Stronger over the Years Idiots.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Jesus Christ, another troll???!!!

 

WTF are you talking about???? The Browns are the #1 sports team in Cleveland. Always have been, always will. They sell out no matter what. You cannot make the same case for the Indians and Cavs! When they suck nobody goes. Watch what happens to the Cavs when they struggle. OK, so it's been awhile since anyone in Cleveland has won anything but here is a list of the last championship by team:

 

Browns 1964

Indians 1948

Cavs... never

 

The Browns have had a lot more success since 1964 than the other 2. Aside from the run in the 90s and in 2007, the Indians have been horrible. The Cavs have been good the past few years, and they have fared better recently, but I can guarantee you the excitement that this city had for the Cavs will be NOTHING compared to when the Browns get back to being a contender. That I can promise you. It was absolutely ELECTRIC in this town from 1985-1989!

This dude is NO Steeler Fan .... no.1 NO Steeler Fan would have Bubby as part of his name... not Exactly our Proudest days . And he would choose an ex-Steeler and Have the screen name basically making fun of the player ? Come on man... this is a Casual Browns Fan Stirring the Pot.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46-LwJyeiNs

This is What Baltimore is... the lynch-pins to Clevelands NFL Struggles . Modell couldn't have Moved the Team if he didnt have a place waiting with Arms wide open. I have NO Use for the Ravens.

[Canton Mike]

IMHO, things such as moving a team aren't done by one SINGLE person. That being said, I harbor great resentment for Baltimore because of...

First some history...As a pro football fan & traditionalist since the mid '50s, I was VERY upset that the Colts (even though I never was a Colt's season long fan) were removed from Baltimore, INCLUDING the name & history. I have always been against the "new" Colts, even at playoff time.

 

For WHATEVER reason, being Modell, political reasons, etc, our Browns DID move to Baltimore & were welcomed with open arms (even AFTER what was done to them). Our keeping the Brown's name was sort of an afterthought to the "move". Baltimore would NOT have nixed the move had obtaining the Brown's name also been a part of it. In other words, the way I see it, Baltimore did to Cleveland what was done to them & I will carry ill will for that team to my grave.

Just my biased, & possibly uneducated opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.

Mike

[SuperSteelers]

As much as I hated the Browns prior to 1996, I did not want them to move. I actually teared up a little with all my Browns brothers...I am from Ohio and a dominant Browns area. It was more than just the rivalry, it was the Browns tradition, the fan loyalty. It was not a necessary move only a greedy one. Dan Rooney commented on this and it went something like this, " The Browns fan base and the city of Cleveland deserve better than this...Cleveland and its fans are paying for the financial troubles of one man."

[dapz]

I am a browns fan that grew up in baltimore. I hate the ravens, all they did was bitch about how someone stole their team, and were completely happy to accept stolen goods from another city.

 

Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

I'll take longstanding prideful organizations over corrupt thugs anyday, Browns and Redskins for me.

[hoorta]

you did not want to build a stadium for the Browns. Modell left and won a Super Bowl.

 

"The Browns were in desperate financial trouble and Modell clearly stated the facts before he announced his departure to Baltimore."

 

From your article. Allow me to re-phrase. Modell was in desperate financial trouble of his own doing.

 

Stuff your apologist revisionist history where the sun don't shine. Modell got $75 million from the state of Maryland, AND a new stadium. AND STILL WENT BUST. So what was Cleveland supposed to do- offer him $150 million, and new stadium just to stay?

 

Here's the reality, stay or go, Modell was financially doomed, he was way too leveraged. If he hadn't been adamant about passing the team to his cigar smoking kid, he could have sold out to Al Lerner in the first place- and you betcha, he'd already be in the HOF if he had followed that scenario.

[djdawg2010]

One other thing about the move to Baltimore that you left out.

 

Art Modell also voted against Baltimore getting one of the last two expansion teams before he moved his team. Looking back why did he not vote to put teams in Baltimore and St. Louis if not for his own desire to move his team to one of those cities? Charlotte North Carolina may have been a good decision in hindsight, but in Jacksonville, aside from recent blackouts for TV audiences in the area, usually covers entire sections of the stadium for Jaguars games and sells out for Gators, when they do play there, games in the same stadium. If the two expansion teams were moved to Baltimore and St. Louis instead of Jacksonville and Carolina there would still be an NFL team in Los Angeles (a popular landing place for the Jaguars in rumors) and Cleveland would have never had a 3 year hiatus.

 

 

Yeah, I don't understand the thing with Jacksonville. It's unfortunate too, because I hate to see any team relocate. In the end, it's the fans that get screwed more than anything.