Mangini and Holmgren question?

[WRREBEL]

I think Mangini should be back if he gets to 6 or 7 wins. I know I am not a Mangini supporter but this is just a question.

 

Do you think Mangini and Holmgren can succeed together?

 

To me, with Holmgrens itch to coach again always has Mangini looking over his shoulder. I think the face of your franchise should be your coach and not the guy in charge of football operations.

 

How do people really see this playing out? I don't see holmgren staying in his position that long ( 2-3) years. He will either coach here or leave to coach another team. If mangini coaches next year, if they start off slow you really think he will keep his job the whole season?

 

I for one would like to see a coach with intensity and not so docile.. Just my opionion but chucky would be great!

 

"in jon we trust"

[pizzadeliveryguy]

HolMgren

[shepwrite]

I don't bring any heavy baggage either way... but I don't think Holmgren ever intended to continue with somebody else's systems and a coach he didn't hire unless the Browns went at least 8-8 on an upward trend (winning a couple at the end). Forced to bet, I'd say Holmgren would LOVE to bring in Gruden and run his WCO with McCoy, Hillis, Vickers, A.J., Massoquoi, Watson, and Moore, all of whom fit it really well.

 

I think it'll happen sooner than later if it happens, like the week after the season ends.

 

[WRREBEL]

I don't bring any heavy baggage either way... but I don't think Holmgren ever intended to continue with somebody else's systems and a coach he didn't hire unless the Browns went at least 8-8 on an upward trend (winning a couple at the end). Forced to bet, I'd say Holmgren would LOVE to bring in Gruden and run his WCO with McCoy, Hillis, Vickers, A.J., Massoquoi, Watson, and Moore, all of whom fit it really well.

 

I think it'll happen sooner than later if it happens, like the week after the season ends.

 

 

I would jizz my pants!

[WRREBEL]

HolMgren

 

Thanks, my spelling is poop!

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Replacing Mangini would be a huge step in the wrong direction. This team has made some serious strides this year. The record may not show it but another offseason of adding talent, especially at the WR position and they will be contending for the playoffs. As far as Gruden goes, he is about as overrated as they come. He won a SB w/ Dungy's team in his first year with TB then had 6 years of mediocrity. His last 3 years were a combined 22-26. Everyone acting like he is a savior really needs to temper their expectations. Also, from everything that I have read from Holmgren, he is not interested in coaching.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Gruden will be in Dallas. Mangini will continue his job here.

[WRREBEL]

Ok so if ur going on record % what is mangini record with the browns and jets?

[USFBrown]

Replacing Mangini would be a huge step in the wrong direction. This team has made some serious strides this year. The record may not show it but another offseason of adding talent, especially at the WR position and they will be contending for the playoffs. As far as Gruden goes, he is about as overrated as they come. He won a SB w/ Dungy's team in his first year with TB then had 6 years of mediocrity. His last 3 years were a combined 22-26. Everyone acting like he is a savior really needs to temper their expectations. Also, from everything that I have read from Holmgren, he is not interested in coaching.

 

You said it great. He's way overrated. And I really like the guy as a person but don't want him to coach my team. It was Kiffins defense that won that Superbowl. Dungy left all the parts and Gruden took all the fame.

 

I'd take him as an offensive coordinator tho.

[USFBrown]

Ok so if ur going on record % what is mangini record with the browns and jets?

 

You're taking his quote a little out of context. Its different here. Mangini didn't inherit a SB team like Gruden. And he's saying after the SB win he destroyed the team.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Ok so if ur going on record % what is mangini record with the browns and jets?

With the Jets, Mangini took over a team that went 4-12 the year before and went 23-25. Not earth shattering by any means but he didn't inherit anything close to what Gruden did. His record isn't good with the Browns but he did have to perform a complete overhaul and has the future looking much brighter in 1 1/2 years.

[Harry Buffalo]

I don't think Holgrem is ever going to coach again. He says that he still has the itch, because he loved to coach. It's just like when some people retire from jobs, and they want to go back after they retire. The thing is Holgrem is just too old and he knows it. If it turned out that he started coaching, it would be because he fires Mangini halfway through the season next year (which he won't do) and thats it. If anything he fires Daboll and brings in an O coordinator who runs the west coast.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

I don't think Holgrem is ever going to coach again. He says that he still has the itch, because he loved to coach. It's just like when some people retire from jobs, and they want to go back after they retire. The thing is Holgrem is just too old and he knows it. If it turned out that he started coaching, it would be because he fires Mangini halfway through the season next year (which he won't do) and thats it. If anything he fires Daboll and brings in an O coordinator who runs the west coast.

HolMgren

[Nuck81]

If Gruden is such a coaching messiah why has he been in the booth for two years?

 

 

[NewEraDawg]

If Gruden is such a coaching messiah why has he been in the booth for two years?

 

to make Tampa Pay him for firing him . Why else ? Plus the market will be good for coaches next year .

[BROWNandORANGE]

i just want a coach who wins games and plays hardnose football. I'm not saying Mangini isn't, but I dont like to watch these cupcake, "go get 'em next time" type coaches. I want a coach that will kick your ass into gear if you do something wrong. That is what a disciplined football team has. A disciplined football team is a winning football team.

[DawgTracker]

I don't want gruden, I would much rather stick with Mangini who I think will win a superbowl.

 

I doubt that Mangini would stick around if holmgren told him that he needed to run the west coast offense. That goes against Mangini's believe that you win playing physical running football. I still don't believe Dabol is doing a bad job this year. He sucked it up last year but when you look at the QB play Bill Walsh probably would have looked bad too.

[slowburn]

Holgrem has only had 3 losing seasons in his 26 year coaching career in the NFL (Head and Assistant roles). IMO, the future looks grim for Mangini in Cleveland unless he finishes out strong these last 5 games.

 

Although, I think Coach Manginin has earned the opportunity (barring a complete collapse) to continue, I sense MH won't hesitate to make a change with anything less that a

 

8 -8 season. Heavy is the crown.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Holgrem has only had 3 losing seasons in his 26 year coaching career in the NFL (Head and Assistant roles). IMO, the future looks grim for Mangini in Cleveland unless he finishes out strong these last 5 games.

 

Although, I think Coach Manginin has earned the opportunity (barring a complete collapse) to continue, I sense MH won't hesitate to make a change with anything less that a

 

8 -8 season. Heavy is the crown.

 

 

 

Don't see Mangini going anywhere. We have made real progress. He will get another year. Bank it.

[Bowman]

If Gruden took Dungy's team to the Super Bowl, couldn't you just as easily say that Bill Callahan took Gruden's Raiders to the Super Bowl the same year?

 

I don't like Gruden, but he deserves credit where credit is due.

[shepwrite]

The guys at OBR say the sense is that Mangini is anything but safe... but no decision has been made yet, officially or unofficially. Holmgren seems less than thrilled on many fronts, but especially with the playcalling.

 

Could go either way... but I'd bet on him being gone at 6-10 and on the bubble at 7-9.

[slowburn]

There's got to be a sports book in Vegas with proposition bets on whether coaches will return or be fired......like to see odds on Mangini's return

[Earl34]

1. I think there is a certain # of wins in Holmgren's mind that Mangini needs to accomplish even though that won't be the only criterion. I think that 7-9 would do it.

 

2. I don't mind Jon Gruden. I think he's a decent coach, however, I would point out that Jon Gruden (for all of his reputation with QB's) has never actually developed a successful one as a head coach. He's ruined many. I would also point out that he tends to grow tired of players quickly. For instance, he drafted Chris Simms and the guy took them to the playoffs with no talent around them. He had a great game in the playoffs and almost brought them back to win. He gets his spleen ruptured the next season and all of a sudden, he can't even find a pass for the restroom...much less see the field. I don't think Gruden coaches the Browns in 2011.

 

3. Eric Mangini had two winning seasons out of three in NY and the losing season sandwiched in between saw his QB get hurt with no reasonable play from the backup. When he's had legitimate QB play in NY he went 18-9 (10-6 with a healthy Pennington and 8-3 with a healthy Favre). In the final weeks of the 2008 season, Mangini probably made some mistakes BUT I would point out that it's hard to overcome your QB throwing multiple interceptions a game for the last five games. In Seattle that year, they lost 9-6 in a snow storm and the Jets receivers were open downfield....Favre couldn't hit them. This coach can't overcome bad QB play but there aren't many coaches who can.

 

4. If Mangini is gone, it will be a very high risk move because no one will argue that they haven't made significant progress since the Minnesota game last year. Yes, it's been frustrating but when you get rid of Mangini, you will then blow up the defense too. Holmgren, left to his own philosophy, will not run a 3-4. The offensive pieces probably still fit but you're committing to a new coach and new philosophy which, absent an All-Star roster that Rex Ryan inherited, will end up setting the team back.

 

5. We all presume that because their resumes are different that Holmgren and Mangini cannot coexist successfully or that they'll disintegrate at the slightest variance. That simply isn't true. Eric Mangini has gone on record as saying that he's open to all philosophies that will help the team win. The WCO was new at some point and that developed out of the marriage of other philosophies. I think that a merging of the Walsh and Parcells trees can happen and perhaps it's going to be the leading edge of how things can be successful in the NFL in the next ten years. All it takes are patient men who aren't willing to listen to the media. The only question in my mind is that this could all change if Mangini decides that he's too loyal to Brian Daboll and Holmgren wants him gone.

[WRREBEL]

So all those who say gruden took over dungys team that can also be said about rex ryan and the jets.

 

 

Dungy couldn't get the bucs over the hump and gruden did.

 

Chucky can handle big personalities. The only thing that I would say is a negative is he doesn't seem to develop young qbs..

 

Then again I don't think he has ever had a franchise qb..

 

In jon we trust!

[professor_g]

If Gruden is such a football genius, why are Jaworski's comments almost ALWAYS more insightful on MNF???

 

I'll take Mangenius over a rah-rah guy any day of the week.

[WRREBEL]

If you listened to monday night football Gruden called the block FG. Jaws has been doing the booth for like 28 years.. Coaching and being in the broadcast booth you cant compare..

 

The lions thought Matt Millen was a genious so they made him a GM.. hahaha Get my point do ya???

 

How many broadcasters have come down to the field to coach.. To be a broadcaster all you have to do is be a former player and loud an anooying..

[ballpeen]

I think more and more ex NFL coaches are discovering a top college job is the way to go. You get to recruit the player you want and don't have to rely on a draft. You are usually on a very nice campus with players who actually listen because they aren't getting paid more than you, and the money paid is "good" enough....like millions.

 

 

 

I could see him in Miami next year.......if I had my choice, I would take a top college over a pro job any day.

[professor_g]

If you listened to monday night football Gruden called the block FG. Jaws has been doing the booth for like 28 years.. Coaching and being in the broadcast booth you cant compare..

 

The lions thought Matt Millen was a genious so they made him a GM.. hahaha Get my point do ya???

 

How many broadcasters have come down to the field to coach.. To be a broadcaster all you have to do is be a former player and loud an anooying..

 

Maybe you're right. But I have to say that I think Mangini is a thoughtful, smart guy in conversation AND he can cook up a mean gameplan AND the players play hard for him. What more do you want?

 

(I know: more wins.)

[WRREBEL]

Maybe you're right. But I have to say that I think Mangini is a thoughtful, smart guy in conversation AND he can cook up a mean gameplan AND the players play hard for him. What more do you want?

 

(I know: more wins.)

 

 

Would a 2nd half game plan be too much to ask for?

[professor_g]

Fair enough.