Phil Savage fired

[YtownBrownsBacker]

PFT alluded to the possibility that Crennel's fate may be decided by the new GM. I know alot of people will get their panties in a bunch if RAC doesn't get canned by Wednesday, but it may be left to the new GM to decide if RAC stays or goes...in whatever capacity.

 

-Al

 

RAC has been asked to step down as head coach. A position within the organization may be offered by the new coach if RAC would want to stay. Again, makes me believe that Pioli will be making the decision.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Well....I just hope we're all prepared for the 3-4 year rebuilding period. Doesn't matter who the new guy is, but there is always 2-3 years of no accountability under new management. You got what you wished for.

 

Didn't take Miami or Atlanta 3-4 years to rebuild and it shouldn't take someone 3-4 years here either. They didn't even have a QB in place. There is some talent here. It isn't like someone is coming in to take over a new expansion team.

[Fooleeze]

I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.

 

The move makes me question Lerner more than ever. I really hope it works out, though. I hope some of these crazy rumors start coming through really fast.

 

 

 

[WVBrownsfan]

I'm in the dark, I didn't know that Pioli is Parcells son in law.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3795922

[Earle]

I cant wait to see the prospects!

[hoorta]

I disagree.

 

I believe the team has talent...but it is being wasted. Lack of leadership, lack of creativity, lack of direction, and complacency have hurt us more than anything.

 

The right GM and the right HC could turn this team around in one year.

 

Good points- didn't take the Dolphins or Atlanta years to turn it around.

 

Phil's downfall was not giving Crennell the ax a few weeks ago- it's so painfully obvious the team just quit on RC.

[hoorta]

I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.

 

The move makes me question Lerner more than ever. I really hope it works out, though. I hope some of these crazy rumors start coming through really fast.

 

There's a GM opening in Detroit. Anybody has to be better than Matt Millen.

 

[hoorta]

There ya have it. So long Krispy Kreme.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3795786

[rich4eagle]

This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up

 

We are one good management team from perennial success be happy

 

 

[Guest ATENEARS]

This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up

 

We are one good management team from perennial success be happy

 

 

Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?

[hoorta]

This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up

 

We are one good management team from perennial success be happy

 

Rich, Crennell should have been fired weeks ago for letting the team quit. And I'll lay that on Phil for not pulling the trigger. I don't share your total disdain for Savage. At least Savage didn't totally screw up his high picks, but he got about nada out of his low ones.

 

 

 

Phil will probably wind up back in Baltimore and Krispy Kreme will go back to fetching doughnuts for Bill B.

 

[rich4eagle]

Larry, today was a good day we cleaned house which was needed but.........to follow your thoughts .......Which high pick of Sewage is a stud...........and remember the measures are scoring on offense and pounding and intimidating on D........

 

I cannot think of one high pick at the moment that is more than ordinary including Joe Thomas

[GRAVY_insane]

And there was much rejoicing!

 

I never liked RAC, and I am so FREAKING glad that PoS is outta here!

[Guest Aloysius]

I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.

Great post. I share a lot of your feelings about this.

 

People should realize that this move wasn't about Savage's ability to scout & bring in talent. As Tony Grossi reported, it was more about Savage's communication skills and leadership abilities (or lack thereof).

 

I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?

 

A major reason for the Pats' recent success has been a series of brilliant trades. They got Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th, and traded a late Round 1 pick in '07 for what turned out to be Randy Moss & Jerod Mayo. Though I didn't like the Corey Williams trade, the Shaun Rogers deal definitely qualifies for the same level of brilliance as Pioli's moves (at least the Welker deal).

 

The one way in which our drafts may end up being better is that we'll have closer coordination between the coach & GM on what kinds of players to bring in. Reports surfaced recently that Crennel didn't want Beau Bell; we had reports in camp that the coaching staff thought Corey Williams was a bust in their system; we drafted two late-round DE's in '07 that weren't at all fits for Romeo's fat guy 3-4 scheme.

 

If Lerner thought any deeper than "Savage is a jerk and doesn't manage well; I have to fire him," I suspect he came to the conclusion that demoting him would only perpetuate this disconnect between the players we draft & the scheme the new GM & coach plan to employ.

 

That may be why he's looking for a more integrated approach this time around: either Cowher in control of everything or Pioli running the show.

 

Ultimately, I think that's the smart thing to do, but I am a little disappointed that Savage didn't end up a success here. His '07 draft class converged on excellence - getting a franchise LT, QB, and two starting corners in the same draft is amazing. And had he gotten Desmond Bishop in Round 6, I suspect we wouldn't be talking about drafting Aaron Curry right now.

 

He displayed some serious PR & maturity issues, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-emerge a la Belichick as a great GM some day. He's only 43 years old, so he can bide his time as a scouting director for a couple years & end up landing a good job elsewhere.

 

I sincerely hope that happens...as long as he does it outside our division.

[hoorta]

Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?

 

I'll chime in- Pioli. Does Marty know how to scout? I haven't forgotten Mike Junkin.

 

If Cowher won't take the job (I predict he won't) Kirk Ferentz or Urban Meyer, or how about Bob Stoops (he's a Buckeye) out of the college ranks? I've seen enough of Tressell that I doubt he'd be successful as a pro coach, and he'd never leave OSU anyway- he's got tenure there for life.

 

I flat out humbly profess my ignorance to not even dare suggest how any assistant NFL coaches might turn out, and other than Marty or Cowher, no HC retreads please- they rarely work- Coughlin being the glaring exception to the rule.

 

[hoorta]

Larry, today was a good day we cleaned house which was needed but.........to follow your thoughts .......Which high pick of Sewage is a stud...........and remember the measures are scoring on offense and pounding and intimidating on D........

 

I cannot think of one high pick at the moment that is more than ordinary including Joe Thomas

 

We've yet to see what Quinn can do Rich- more than anything else that got me off the Crennell train. Like it or not Thomas is going to the Pro Bowl again- I agree that JT had a down year, but I'll attribute that to a sophmore slump, a hurt Eric Steinbach next to him that he had to cover for, and horrendous non-adjustments by Chud. NOBODY can block 2-3 guys on a consistent basis.

 

Kam Wimbley has one more year to prove he's not a bust- ditto that for Braylon Edwards. BTW, Edwards was way up there in the stats for ypc. If he can ever learn to hang onto the ball with any consistency, he'll be in Hawaii ever February.

 

[Byner Fumbles!]

Congrats to the Brownies for getting rid of the best GM you guys have had since the move.

 

 

 

Maybe you'll find another Butch Davis to run the team into the ground.

 

 

Keep wiping the slate clean, and you wonder why you guys have had zero success since coming back.

 

 

 

I remember reading all these articles last year about how important it was to have continuity in the organization.

 

 

 

 

Whoops.

[rich4eagle]

I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........

 

NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired

 

But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end

[OconRecon]

...I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?...

 

Agree. That classs still has the potential to rival the best draft class in the history of the Browns. Terry Pluto has said the Browns were just paying their dues with Wrist and McDonald this year and expects them to further blossom next year. Thomas is a worker and will be OK. If Quinn pans out, than amazing is right.

 

I've read D-lineman transition slowly from college. Warren Sapp's first couple of years were average. Give Wimbley a chance. And of course give D'Quell another year.

 

So, its still possible Phil's drafts come out even further above average in the end.

 

It was the leadership and PR stuff that did him in. You're right.

[BigBrownsFan]

Please God no to another college coach...... seems like Jimmy Johnson was the only one that comes to mind that was successful in making that tenure.

 

But I understand the doubts about coordinators as well.

 

Personally, I would go with Cowher and Pioli... or Cowher as GM and Coach... or Schottenheimer as far as that goes.... if not, get Spags away from the Giants.

 

Get me Wade Phillips for DC..... Tucker sucks. Send him back to Ohio State.

 

Go get Mike Martz for OC.

 

It is the lateral moves I know cost alot.... therein lies the problem.

[lemosley01]

I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........

 

NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired

 

But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end

 

Are you ignoring Stan? Come on, Oh Great Prognosticator. In your most excellent wisdom, who can we hire that will turn it around?

 

I want to make sure we have this in writing, so when you start spouting shit about how you knew so-and-so sucked, we can pull the post and own you, just like every other 'prediction' you and Ghoolie make.

 

My guess, you won't name anybody or someone unobtainable. You never really commit to anything, just 'generics' - like Miss Cleo. Maybe that's what I'll start calling you. And Ghoolie can be Sylvia Brown.

[Guest Aloysius]

IMO that hurt him more than anything else.

Yeah, I don't think Lerner made this move because he agreed with Flugel & co about Savage's inability to find another 3-4 ILB.

 

From all accounts, Lerner is a decent man. This year, his football soccer players are wearing jerseys that feature advertisements for a non-profit that provides care for terminally-ill children. Instead of raking in tons of cash by selling that ad space, he's using it to raise money for a worthy cause - an extremely classy move.

 

So I'm sure Savage's bizarre, inappropriate moves put him in Lerner's dog house. Throwing RAC under the bus was an extremely selfish move, and sending that nasty e-mail probably was something that Lerner, an wannabe English aristocrat, saw as a vile breach of custom.

 

And as a decent man, Lerner probably saw little sense in firing RAC, a guy who doesn't seem to have a mean bone in his body, while retaining a guy whose actions have oscillated between rude and nasty.

 

That probably had a lot more to do with Savage's firing than any roster move he's ever made.

[hoorta]

Congrats to the Brownies for getting rid of the best GM you guys have had since the move.

 

 

 

Maybe you'll find another Butch Davis to run the team into the ground.

 

 

Keep wiping the slate clean, and you wonder why you guys have had zero success since coming back.

 

 

 

I remember reading all these articles last year about how important it was to have continuity in the organization.

 

 

 

 

Whoops.

 

Savage was probably asked to take a demotion, and refused.

 

As a Steeler fan, you'd probably have loved us to keep Crennell around forever- sort of like us Buckeye fans never wanted to see Lloyd Carr get the boot at at Michigan.

 

[lemosley01]

Are you ignoring Stan? Come on, Oh Great Prognosticator. In your most excellent wisdom, who can we hire that will turn it around?

 

I want to make sure we have this in writing, so when you start spouting shit about how you knew so-and-so sucked, we can pull the post and own you, just like every other 'prediction' you and Ghoolie make.

 

My guess, you won't name anybody or someone unobtainable. You never really commit to anything, just 'generics' - like Miss Cleo. Maybe that's what I'll start calling you. And Ghoolie can be Sylvia Brown.

 

We need to merge these threads. I see rich named Cowher #1 (and whoever Cowher wants as GM) and Marty. Surprise, he got specific; another surprise, he also chose 'unobtanium.'

 

I don't think we'll get either one of these two. Cowher we'll try to get and fail (because he doesn't want to coach yet); Marty supposedly isn't on the radar and doesn't want to coach anymore.

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see what Sylvia and Miss Cleo's thoughts are on whomever gets hired.

[Guest Aloysius]

Agree. That classs still has the potential to rival the best draft class in the history of the Browns. Terry Pluto has said the Browns were just paying their dues with Wrist and McDonald this year and expects them to further blossom next year. Thomas is a worker and will be OK. If Quinn pans out, than amazing is right.

 

I've read D-lineman transition slowly from college. Warren Sapp's first couple of years were average. Give Wimbley a chance. And of course give D'Quell another year.

 

So, its still possible Phil's drafts come out even further above average in the end.

Very true.

 

If we turn around things next year, I hope Savage's good drafts don't get completely forgotten (and the new FO's mistakes completely swept under the rug). It'd be like giving Gruden all the credit for winning a Super Bowl with what was basically Tony Dungy's team.

 

And if we end up with an even more chaotic front office-coach relationship, I'll be royally pissed.

[tws458]

That makes room for big Bill C throw the bank at him!

[Tobalaz]

HELL YEAH!!!

 

 

Now the real question is this.

 

 

Rich no longer has his favorite punching bag. I know he's a happy man tonight. But who will he turn his ire towards. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Lerner.

Winslow.

Learner.

Thomas.

 

 

[Byner Fumbles!]

Savage was probably asked to take a demotion, and refused.

 

As a Steeler fan, you'd probably have loved us to keep Crennell around forever- sort of like us Buckeye fans never wanted to see Lloyd Carr get the boot at at Michigan.

 

 

Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)

 

But I'm not disputing firing him.

 

 

I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.

 

 

All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.

 

End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.

 

 

Don't you guys ever get sick of that?

 

 

 

I'm guessing its because you're going to make a move for Cowher. Talk here in Pittsburgh is that it might start as soon as tomorrow. But I doubt he ends up coaching next year, and I doubt even more he goes to Cleveland.

 

 

Then what?

[Gips]

Rich, Crennell should have been fired weeks ago for letting the team quit. And I'll lay that on Phil for not pulling the trigger. I don't share your total disdain for Savage. At least Savage didn't totally screw up his high picks, but he got about nada out of his low ones.

 

 

 

Phil will probably wind up back in Baltimore and Krispy Kreme will go back to fetching doughnuts for Bill B.

 

Savage should have fired crennel at the bye week but instead phil defended him and struck out at us as unknowlegable fans who were dead wrong about rac when sewage gave that ignorant arrogant press release i flipped the switch on him right then realizing he was in a total make belief fantasy world..i like savage as a scout but thats where it ends..

 

As for krispy kreme in the end i think he is a victim of savages lousy system his fan unfriendly silence and his "keep it in the family" crap cost him his job i have to wonder if romeo was ever really in command of the team or just a sewage lackey..

 

And if he was truly in charge he should have been fired much much earlier because he really does suck at every aspect of being a coach he failed to move his horrible assistants or the players he wasnt a leader..i think lerners decision is justified ten times over for firing them both but i hope it doesnt stop there, because that house is littered with trash that needs to be sweeped up...

 

I hate seeing people lose their jobs but i love the browns and i have no loyalty to or for lazy ,sorry or inexperienced people at any level of the club who are not doing their jobs or whom are not the best possible people for the job because it causes disfunction and is detrimental to the club...

 

I really hope randy does this whole off season right we are patient and can wait for the browns to emerge as winners as long as there is a structure developed and a successful system installed,developed and the coordinators mentored so it can be passed down to the younger fiery coaches of the future its all part of having a successful system and the browns have lacked a solid management structure from the very top and have lacked a successful football program/system from mid level down for way to long..

 

It all starts by getting the right people to rebuild the organizations structure soo...

Randy needs to open his wallet wide and say ahhhhh...

[hoorta]

Obviously, I'd love to see you keep a loser like Crennel as head coach around forever. ( 0-8 vs. the Steelers in his short tenure as Browns HC)

 

But I'm not disputing firing him.

 

I think it was a stupid move to fire the one guy that showed you any positive change - Phil Savage.

 

All that talk from Randy Lerner last year about one of the Browns biggest weaknesses being lack of continuity from one regime to the next.

 

End of 2008, and Savage is out the door. And you've got to start totally fresh again. Just like 1999. Just like 2001. Just like 2005.

 

 

Don't you guys ever get sick of that?

 

I'm guessing its because you're going to make a move for Cowher. Talk here in Pittsburgh is that it might start as soon as tomorrow. But I doubt he ends up coaching next year, and I doubt even more he goes to Cleveland.

 

 

Then what?

 

Unlike some of my brethren, I have mixed emotions about firing Savage. And like I said before, he might have been asked to step down as GM to be director of Player Personnel, and refused. We don't know everything that went on behind closed doors. I'm getting the feeling him and Lerner weren't on the same page.

 

Even then as a talent evaluator, how many of the Browns could start for the Steelers? 3? 4? 6-7 tops. Phil's had 4 years.

 

Yeah-we're really sick of losing. Totally fed up. Even us lifelong hardcores are about ready to throw in the towel if this doesn't start changing, and soon. We've tried the hot college coach, and the hot defensive coordinator- got any other ideas? Proven winner in Cowher? I agree- a longshot at best. Marty's a more likely suspect, but he has no front office experience.