SJ_Browns Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x164409114...aces-tough-task The losing grows old and moldy. Browns fans are left to hope Dick Jauron learned in the halls of ivy how to artfully apply ever-fresh ideas. Yale-educated Jauron is the revisionist architect of the Browns’ defense, hired to change a 3-4 scheme that was way more talk than action under Rob Ryan — and install a 4-3 under the oddest of circumstances. • Between firing players and wondering whether others will skip town as free agents, Jauron can at best make an educated guess as to how his cast will shape up. • He’s installing a 4-3 just when the 3-4 has become the flavor of the decade. It remains to be seen if he’s right and the trend is wrong. • He’s in an awful spot if the labor battleground wipes out spring practice. The handful of teams changing schemes — Cleveland among them — really need those sessions. If the mess splatters into what normally would be the preseason, erasing still more prep time, Jauron won’t need to be a genius. He’ll need to be a miracle worker. Meanwhile, perhaps it is worthwhile for the 60-year-old Jauron to contemplate on his Super Bowl counterparts, Pittsburgh’s Dick LeBeau, 73, and Green Bay’s Dom Capers, 60. He won’t use their Xs and Os, but he might want to adopt some of their philosophy, if its not in his battle plan already. Suggestion 1: Don’t be too set in your ways. Capers was talking about his first defensive coordinator job in Pittsburgh in 1992, when he was LeBeau’s boss on a team that invented the zone blitz — or at least reinvented it into a useful form. “We developed some concepts out of necessity,” Capers said, “because we were having a hard time getting pressure on the quarterback. “You have to have the ability to adapt your system to the talent that’s there at the time.” Capers and LeBeau thought things through quite nicely. In Chuck Noll’s last year as head coach, 1991, the Steelers went 7-9. In Head Coach Bill Cowher’s first year, with Capers adjusting the defense on the fly, the record was 11-5. Current Pittsburgh Head Coach Mike Tomlin oversees basically the same defense Capers installed in 1992, with LeBeau’s help. “Both of them are great innovators,” Tomlin said. “First and foremost, they cater their attacks to fit their men. You aren’t going to have all the pieces in place.” LeBeau indirectly offered some advice for Jauron; namely, find a Hall of Fame type player or two. How best to disguise a defense? “That’s easy,” LeBeau said. “You just get Troy Polamalu in your backfield. He’ll move around and disguise anything you want. Usually, it works. “We give them parameters. The players make it come to life. Troy and James Harrison are two fairly good players.” Joe Haden has some life in his game. Someone else of his ilk is needed. Between them, Capers and LeBeau have had three NFL head coaching jobs. Jauron has had two. Jauron will have some clout when he argues for defensive players as General Manager Tom Heckert decides how to spend high draft picks in each round. However, offensive-minded President Mike Holmgren has Jauron’s ear, too, as does head coach Pat Shurmur, who will run the offense. Labor trouble could interrupt free agency, and the usual talent round-up could be backwards, wherein one shops for free agents based on who was drafted, rather than the other way around. Nothing Jauron can do about that. One thing he can do: Emulate that other 60-year-old coordinator, the one who just won a Super Bowl. “Dom Capers, in my opinion, is one of the best of all-time,” Green Bay linebackers coach Winston Moss said. “He listens very well. He draws from the ability of his assistants. “He respects their knowledge. In turn, we all identify what each guy does well, then put those guys in position to make plays. “I haven’t seen anyone do that better than Dom.” Browns fans have yet to hear anything or see anything from Jauron. It would be good for him to come forward soon and explain to prospective season ticket holders what he has up his sleeve. Until then, we’ll keep an open mind as to what he might do. Given what the coordinators who reached the Super Bowl, say, so should he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteelers Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think the Browns were on to something with their 3-4.......why switch up now? They were a pretty good D in the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 feel the same way. I told all my friends that I wanted to keep ryan and if that meant making him HC then thats what I would have done. The 3/4 was just taking shape here and now back to the 4\3, just in time for everyone else to switch to the 3/4. Should have no problem finding players for our system though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Yeah i mean the only reason i like the switch is because Heckert is fimilar with it, and Philly has a had a pretty good defense the past few years running a 4-3....Im more for the 3-4 but 4-3 can work i mean New Orleans won with a 4-3 and they played the Colts who also run a 4-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I like the 3-4 myself. That said, it is also harder to find the players for that system. Considering we have been screwing around trying to get it working since Romeo entered the picture and haven't really gotten it done, maybe the switch is good. No doubt we will be drafting a DT in the first....at least in my mind....and lucky for us there are 2-3 guys up there who look like legit talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ryan= most overrated coach in Cleveland history. Why are people still riding his dick? What exactly did he do that was so great? Nothing. He sucked in Oakland, Cleveland, and will in Dallas. has he ever had a top 15 defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Both the 34 and 43 defenses have their ups and downs and i like either when manned and coached well, however the browns FO from the savage era thru the mankok debacle 2 years ago have botched/neglected both the scouting/drafting and the personnel/FAs they acquired for our 34 defense and that has left our defense both old and pretty much without impact players... With jauron and rhodes expertise in the 43 combined with heckerts proven 43 personnel experience i feel really good about us going 43 and am very confident that we will finally begin to hit a stride, we have a lot of coach experience on both sides of the ball from holmgren/haskell and heckert right on down the assistants shurmur chose to keep and hired and i like the fact that shurmy is going to call the plays himself the first year as it should set the pace and there will be nobody to pin it on but shurmy rather it succeeds or fails... Now lets just hope heckert brings us a great draft and that there will be a season this year because i am anxious and excited about the changes and want to see some holmgren era cleveland browns football! I remember around the bye week when lerner done his annual semi interview he kept saying something like Mike is rearing and ready to get started, he just cant wait to get going!.. and i kept thinking to myself what does randy mean? Holmgren has already started... I think regardless of what they say holmgren, heckert and lerner knew by game 5 these changes were coming and from mangini's grimacing facial expressions fairly early on he may have knew as well, he often looked like a guy who had already lost his job and was very aware of it but kept chugging along trying to do the best he could while doing what he does do best, keeping a misguiding and closed mouth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowburn Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Heckert has intimated in recent interviews that he was hamstrung to a degree by mangini's reluctance to sign off on some of the players he wanted in last year's draft.......there was a major rift in their philosophies on the type of players best suited for the Browns. whatever the reason it was decided to defer to mangini's desires on whom he did and didn't want on the team... I'd like to think that this year's draft will surpass a decent 2010 primarily due to Hecks having more decision making autonomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ_Browns Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ryan= most overrated coach in Cleveland history. Why are people still riding his dick? What exactly did he do that was so great? Nothing. He sucked in Oakland, Cleveland, and will in Dallas. has he ever had a top 15 defense? i've said it before and i'll say it again. imo ryan's d was nothing more than over-aggressive playcalling and trying to fool opposing offenses with tricks and gimmicks. that's not going to get you far in the nfl. we all saw what happened when people figured out ryan's style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ_Browns Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Heckert has intimated in recent interviews that he was hamstrung to a degree by mangini's reluctance to sign off on some of the players he wanted in last year's draft.......there was a major rift in their philosophies on the type of players best suited for the Browns. whatever the reason it was decided to defer to mangini's desires on whom he did and didn't want on the team... I'd like to think that this year's draft will surpass a decent 2010 primarily due to Hecks having more decision making autonomy and don't forget, heckert and co have had an entire season to scout and collect data from the college ranks (draft) and fa (nfl) to fit the browns list of needs now. their first draft for the browns, ofcourse, they didn't have as much time becuase they were with another team during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Nice discussion. I prefer the 3-4 like some others. But both defenses can be dominant. I just never understood why we switched from the 4-3 when Sewage and Crennel arrived. We did not have the people to run a good 3-4. The best lineman we had, a decent tackle in a 4-3, was forced to be the NT, Orpheus Roye no way suited for that. Then we brought in FAT washed up Ted, and Rogers who was a very good 4-3 tackle but lazy and fat so we made him fatter and a nose tackle. We never got the linebackers to execute the 3-4 and Savage brought in some used up LB's as well. Here's my take on both defenses and which to use. The 4-3 works best when you have three lineman who can penetrate. Especially both DE's who can rush the passer. Indy has two prime examples of pass rushing DE's. The teams that do well in the 4-3 have the DE's who make sacks. So the key if running a 4-3 is getting those up front guys with size speed and moves and containment ability. Not simple to get er done. When Paul Wiggin and Bill Glass were the DE's in the last Browns Championship season we had that.. two really good pass rushers from the DE position. To run the 3-4 the LB's are the key. The front three requires a block of granite in the middle like Casey Hampton and two DE's the can take on OL guys and neutralize them. Then the LB's can roam and make plays. The two inside LB's must really be good against the run and fill gaps. The two outside LB's in the 3-4 are even more important because they must be really good pass rushers as well keeping the edges intact against outside running. Some teams have used the 3-4 for decades especially the Steelers. However, the Steel Curtain was 4-3 team with two great pass rushing ends and a home wrecker at one tackle position. The Browns a great inside rusher in Michael Dean Perry at tackle. AJ Hawk is a perfect IL for the 3-4. If you have noticed through the years the Steelers always focus on getting great LB's and then let them go when they cost more than they are worth and bring in the young guys they drafted. Sewage did the opposite brought in overpaid graybeards. NE does the same stuff as Pittsburgh but Belichick has at times gone to a 4-3 D when his people did not fit the 3-4. That is the rub I have had since the beginning of rebirth. We spent all our money on the OL when we started and mostly have done so ever since. Under Butch we drafted DL guys who were not very good at pass rushing or were one dimensional, Courtney Brown is a perfect example. Once teams figured out he had one move speed rush outside, they neglected the bull rush and spin moves as an abiilty and he was duh ordinary. Under Sewage we switched and never got the people to do the 3-4. We drafted one dimensional Wimbley and they figured him out and he became ordinary. If you watch James Harrison he is the perfect 3-4 LB, fast, elusive, punishing and can defend the run or pass or rush the passer. This is what is the best on the edge like our own Clay Matthews and his son as well. To make the 3-4 exceptional you need great OL's So all that all this says.........is GET the people to fit the system. Or change the system to fit the people. 3-4 focus on LB's. 4-3 better get two good pass rushing DE's and one inside guy who can rush as well. The Browns have been putting square pegs into round holes until now. I think Heckert(this guy seems to be a real steal) and Holmgren will make us a lot better. Issues remain. We need real receivers. We need to see Colt become a high quality QB. We are woefully weak at RB. Sorry to burst some bubbles but Peyton Hillis is not going to be a force for very long. He snuck up on the opposition. I think he will end up like Rubin Droughns and Jamal (tap dance) Empty Tank Lewis. We need two real rbs besides him. Focus on the draft and getting people who touch the ball who make impacts and people on defense who are disruptive as the second priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thank for you for the good post, except the last part about Hillis. That's dumb. So, Thank You to the guy who wrote that first part for Rich ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thank you as well Cal........but Hillis does not have moves or speed ............he has good field vision and great hands and desire...............field vision moves and speed make a rb be a force for more than a short time Peyton is missing two ingredients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ_Browns Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thank for you for the good post, except the last part about Hillis. That's dumb. So, Thank You to the guy who wrote that first part for Rich ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Give Rich some props...he atleast talked about football lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 not only talked football but astutely..............unbelievable or sumtim If I run for Senator will anyone volunteer to work for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roach Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 not only talked football but astutely..............unbelievable or sumtim If I run for Senator will anyone volunteer to work for me i won't work for you, but after a couple margaritas i'd vote for you. Nice post earlier. i agree with your defensive analysis. i don't agree with the Hillis comment. That guy makes plays on a team that lacks playmakers. Having Cribbs and Hillis in the huddle at the same time created some real problems for opposing defenses. When Cribbs went down, it was easier for teams to focus on our only weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thank you as well Cal........but Hillis does not have moves or speed ............he has good field vision and great hands and desire...............field vision moves and speed make a rb be a force for more than a short time Peyton is missing two ingredients Hillis has great speed for his size and as far as moves, he is a hit the hole and break tackles type of back. The guy has the balance of a cat, and don't go down with an arm tackle. Will a back like this last forever? No. But you are trying to compare him to something he isn't. Also moves will lead a back to put the ball in awkward positions and lose ball control making it easy for him to be stripped or have the ball popped loose. But im interested in hearing who has what hillis has plus moves and speed. ill take his frame,speed,hands and desire in the flat any day. But If we get some hot recievers that can take the load off him, we may see him for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thank you as well Cal........but Hillis does not have moves or speed ............he has good field vision and great hands and desire...............field vision moves and speed make a rb be a force for more than a short time Peyton is missing two ingredients Okay Peyton does have good enough speed, id say hes quite fast for how big he is...And he dosent have any moves the guy hurdles people like there nothing and your telling me he's not althetic...Also he has one of the best stiff arms in the game and thats a good move to have.. Hillis may get banged up and i do think we need to add depth to the RB position but believe it that Hillis is the real deal, hes the best thing to come to Cleveland in a long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ_Browns Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 i agree that we need a change of pace back to compliment hillis and i do think that hillis has potential and can do some good things for the browns, i just hope that hillis can work on the fumbling issues and not be so careless when he decides to hurdle someone. last time he hurdled somebody, they were waiting for it and got the best of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 not only talked football but astutely..............unbelievable or sumtim If I run for Senator will anyone volunteer to work for me Is your name Palpatine, Senator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Okay Peyton does have good enough speed, id say hes quite fast for how big he is...And he dosent have any moves the guy hurdles people like there nothing and your telling me he's not althetic...Also he has one of the best stiff arms in the game and thats a good move to have.. Hillis may get banged up and i do think we need to add depth to the RB position but believe it that Hillis is the real deal, hes the best thing to come to Cleveland in a long time... OK, Hillis doesn't have the moves of Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. And he may not be quite as fast as say, Chris Johnson. But he has had time where he has had the open field in front of him, and he wasn't caught from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 i won't work for you, but after a couple margaritas i'd vote for you. Nice post earlier. i agree with your defensive analysis. i don't agree with the Hillis comment. That guy makes plays on a team that lacks playmakers. Having Cribbs and Hillis in the huddle at the same time created some real problems for opposing defenses. When Cribbs went down, it was easier for teams to focus on our only weapon. Thanks, I just do not see Hillis as being a force for very long. Moves and speed make a long term success at RB..............and good hands...........he has the hands Do not expect him to do more than he did last year ever again We need that RB who is a yard guy and a danger on every down.........GB was lucky to make it without that kind of RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thanks, I just do not see Hillis as being a force for very long. Moves and speed make a long term success at RB..............and good hands...........he has the hands Do not expect him to do more than he did last year ever again We need that RB who is a yard guy and a danger on every down.........GB was lucky to make it without that kind of RB So when a team doesn't have something that you say is "necessary" to winning, but they still win anyway, they're just lucky? We need whatever makes us better. Your supposed "fix-it-all" needs and "genius" ideas are the same as anyone elses. If they weren't, you'd be running a team instead of bitching online about how nobody does it right. We have a runningback. If he even gets close to the numbers he had this year, Hillis will be a success. There are more important needs than finding a scat back just because you have a boner for Darren Sproles. We need to address our more important needs first, and then maybe add a change of pace guy. Like a Jacquizz Rodgers in the late rounds. That's IF we address RB at all, which I don't see as being a high priority for the new regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks, I just do not see Hillis as being a force for very long. Moves and speed make a long term success at RB..............and good hands...........he has the hands Do not expect him to do more than he did last year ever again We need that RB who is a yard guy and a danger on every down.........GB was lucky to make it without that kind of RB I used the example of Jerome Bettis elsewhere. He lasted a long, long time in this league and he was bulkier and slower than Hillis, so this propaganda being bandied about by you Steeler trolls that "Hillis cannot last long" is purely farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbell Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well..The Browns are fixing something that wasn't really broke. 13th in scoring defense with you're defensive team leader out (Fujita) is just about good enough to get you to the tournament by adding a pice or two. Sounds like Heckert said its difficult to get 3-4 players?..Thats your job Tom..it is tough.. but making 2-3 mill a year it should be tough.. not conveniant for you. I don't know this answer but just curious. Has any team gone from playing the 3-4 and switched back to the 4-3? Seems like a large number are going from 4-3 to 3-4 defenses as opposed to the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well..The Browns are fixing something that wasn't really broke. 13th in scoring defense with you're defensive team leader out (Fujita) is just about good enough to get you to the tournament by adding a pice or two. Sounds like Heckert said its difficult to get 3-4 players?..Thats your job Tom..it is tough.. but making 2-3 mill a year it should be tough.. not conveniant for you. I don't know this answer but just curious. Has any team gone from playing the 3-4 and switched back to the 4-3? Seems like a large number are going from 4-3 to 3-4 defenses as opposed to the reverse. It is easier to find 4-3 players because so many more teams are either a 3-4 now or are converting. That leaves players that 3-4 defenses won't look at because they don't fit in their system. Running a 4-3 you can find good DT's later in the draft because they are passed over by all the 3-4 teams. It's the same when the 3-4 was new they could pick up these OLB/DE prospects that other 4-3 defenses didn't really want to take a chance on because they would either be too big or too small for what they needed and NT like DT would be looked over for being too big and too slow. Now those kind of players are taken in the first round every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronjoe Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 feel the same way. I told all my friends that I wanted to keep ryan and if that meant making him HC then thats what I would have done. The 3/4 was just taking shape here and now back to the 4\3, just in time for everyone else to switch to the 3/4. Should have no problem finding players for our system though Skinny, I am brand new to the board and i too wanted the browns to do anything to keep Ryan. Now a defense with an aging and injured Dline, slow lbers, and half a rookie DB was a very solid scoring defense. Now we dump Shaun rogers, who played injured in 2010 off his torn Achilles in 2009, we let Ryan walk and go to a whole new scheme without the personnel to run it. We are in DEEEEP GUANO as Dick" By thew Book" Jauron and the browns will be bludgeoned by that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Im not expecting to many big things consdering the switch and theres alot of wholes to fill, but i think that Heckert will bring the right people in and we will be very good on D pretty soon.....Rubin is going to great as a 4-3 DT and there are some other positives to it... Look for players in the draft ecspically in later rounds to fit the 4-3 scheme Drake Nevis a DT outta LSU would be a ideal fit for the 4-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Skinny, I am brand new to the board and i too wanted the browns to do anything to keep Ryan. Now a defense with an aging and injured Dline, slow lbers, and half a rookie DB was a very solid scoring defense. Now we dump Shaun rogers, who played injured in 2010 off his torn Achilles in 2009, we let Ryan walk and go to a whole new scheme without the personnel to run it. We are in DEEEEP GUANO as Dick" By thew Book" Jauron and the browns will be bludgeoned by that book. I don't know if we will be in Deep Guano with Jauron there, but, I do like the way you expressed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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