Westside Steve Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 So for anyone who has chosen to characterize these situations as unilateral force from state governors, answer this if you can or will. Should states have the right to decide whether or not theirs is a "right to work" state? If not wouldn't (or shouldn't) the nearly half or so be subject to prosecution under federal law? And a bonus question" Besides bankruptcy or moving operations to a right to work state what leverage should employers have in labor disputes? ps yes or no on the first couple would be a good start. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm all for the "right to work" option. And the states should be allowed to decide for themselves on this issue. In most cases labor unions handcuff businesses and can be that ball and chain that stops them from moving forward. We live in a society where everyone feels like the employer should be happy that the person even showed up to work. And they want their breaks every 2 hours while being allowed to text non stop while on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 >>So for anyone who has chosen to characterize these situations as unilateral force from state governors>> You are talking about the uninformed, lemmings and apostles of the strangestream media, Steve. The REAL protesters showed up in November and voiced their views via the ballot box. And these were actually people who LIVED in those states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 >>So for anyone who has chosen to characterize these situations as unilateral force from state governors>> You are talking about the uninformed, lemmings and apostles of the strangestream media, Steve. The REAL protesters showed up in November and voiced their views via the ballot box. And these were actually people who LIVED in those states. Seemed to me somebody thought otherwise. Can't remember who..... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Seemed to me somebody thought otherwise. Can't remember who..... WSS Maybe they went on the bus to Wisconsin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Should states have the right to decide whether or not theirs is a "right to work" state? I'll bite. Umm... Since we're still pretending to be part of the UN, then shouldn't all states be following it? If not wouldn't (or shouldn't) the nearly half or so be subject to prosecution under federal law? I don't have the slightest clue. Still a newb to this issue. Besides bankruptcy or moving operations to a right to work state what leverage should employers have in labor disputes? Article 23 1. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. 2. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. 3. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. 4. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests. Since we're on the topic of right to work, here's what the UDHR says about it. As for what the employers should be able to do? I don't know... I guess they shouldn't be allowed to do anything that contradicts the list above. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 So for anyone who has chosen to characterize these situations as unilateral force from state governors, answer this if you can or will. Should states have the right to decide whether or not theirs is a "right to work" state? No If not wouldn't (or shouldn't) the nearly half or so be subject to prosecution under federal law? Yes And a bonus question" Besides bankruptcy or moving operations to a right to work state what leverage should employers have in labor disputes? Well what leverage would the working class have if there were no unions? That was a big reason why they were started in the first place. Sub standard working conditions, pay, equipment, benefits. The unions have enabled the blue collar men and women to have a decent living. If there were no unions the employers have no one to compete against to keep its skilled labor. If no one else is offering health care and a retirement and decent wages who's going too? Thanks to organized labor we are where we are today. With the rising cost of health care and just the cost of living alone its hard to make it now. If organized labor were to collapse so would health and retirement benefits, along with pay. Then you wont even have a little bit of SS. to look forward to. And we all know that the cost of living would not change. I read some where that medicare went up 50% this past year and is projected to double in the next year. Can you imagine that if your retired on a fixed income, let alone if you were dependent on prescription drugs. The goverment has made it to easy for people now. Go get some food stamps, SSI, for yourself and all the kids, free health care, subsidized housing, some states even give you a cell phone and you can live better than most that work. Make all them welfare rats take a piss test every month to keep it. If you fail boot them off the system. Unfortunately the kids would suffer from their parents stupidity. So make them do some community serive. Make them pick up trash and cigarette butts along the road for free for a week. And if they refuse send them to prison. That alone would save this country trillions of dollars. But I guess some don’t see the big picture, only that organized labor costs the state X amount of dollars. Also how does the government expect us to compete on a global scale with china and mexico? Without placing some tariffs on imports.....unless they expect us to work and survive at those wages. Probably the reason you don't see americans shot trying to cross the border. And I have been to mexico, if you stray from the resorts you will see.......... a whole lot of nothing. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Maybe they went on the bus to Wisconsin. The Short Bus, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I understand, that the state govs want to get the balance back. to stop the never ending unions always looking for more and more, every contract. It's a financial crisis. The collective bargaining thing does concern me a bit though. Why not just leave it in place, and simple bargain on the basis of whether or not there's a surplus, and how big of one? It would seem that the gov employee unions, and teacher unions, want to keep their ability to bargain to coerce DEM officials to simply raise taxes, so they can have more. Tired of it. There has to be a solution, or the good teachers would leave one state, for another... The left has shown their distorted, extremely hateful and ignorant, and violent faces for all to see. And who runs the unions? The left, all too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Tired of it. There has to be a solution, or the good teachers would leave one state, for another... The left has shown their distorted, extremely hateful and ignorant, and violent faces for all to see. And who runs the unions? The left, all too often. Exactly. This scares the crap out of me as a 24 year old teacher trying to start a career. If this goes down and we go to merit pay, forget about teaching to the test. A lot of teachers will just simply give the kids the answers. Why shouldn't they? Why should our pay be based on a bunch of kids who could care less about these tests? It's not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Exactly. This scares the crap out of me as a 24 year old teacher trying to start a career. If this goes down and we go to merit pay, forget about teaching to the test. A lot of teachers will just simply give the kids the answers. Why shouldn't they? Why should our pay be based on a bunch of kids who could care less about these tests? It's not fair. The teachers allready let the kids re-take tests so they can get the higher gpa. I will give you an example right here where I live. The kids in my sons class all failed a test. The next day the teacher walked in handed out the graded tests and handed them new ones and told them to finish by the time the bell rang and he wont be back until then so if you need to use your text books have at it. My son said they have always done the testing this way. Pretty sad isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 The teachers allready let the kids re-take tests so they can get the higher gpa. I will give you an example right here where I live. The kids in my sons class all failed a test. The next day the teacher walked in handed out the graded tests and handed them new ones and told them to finish by the time the bell rang and he wont be back until then so if you need to use your text books have at it. My son said they have always done the testing this way. Pretty sad isnt it? I was talking about high stakes testing. Standardized tests. Kids hate these tests and teachers already spend a lot of time teaching kids the material on them. There is a difference between wanting your students to do well in class and easy education. What grade is your son in? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I was talking about high stakes testing. Standardized tests. Kids hate these tests and teachers already spend a lot of time teaching kids the material on them. There is a difference between wanting your students to do well in class and easy education. What grade is your son in? Just curious. He is finished with school, and needs to return back to college soon. A friend of mine wrote this and sent it into her local paper, I agree with her and I feel like she hits it out of the park with her comments. Race to Nowhere, letter to editor .by Joan Nesbit Mabe on Thursday, February 17, 2011 at 3:27pm.Dear Editor, A few weeks ago, Race to Nowhere was screened at Chapel Hill high school and I want to thank the good folks at the Public School Foundation for bringing the subject of this documentary to the attention of our community. I was able to view the film with my 12th grader sitting next to me and while most of the adults in the theater were drop-jawed and aghast at the level of pressure/stress our teenagers must endure to survive the school game ... my daughter simply shrugged, “Yep, that’s the way it is.” Later she added, “This is not our problem to solve. We’re just kids trying to win the game under the rules YOU grown-ups created for us.” And she’s right. It is the adults ... the teachers, parents, administrators at both the high school and college level who must right this AP-stuffed, resume-fluffed, activity-laden ship of foolish Über activity. I remember when my daughter LOVED school. During her elementary years, she came home every day with colorful dinner-table stories about her “specials” - art, music, PE., science, Spanish, library time, etc. She and her friends swapped books regularly, wrote plays during lunch, planted trees during recess, turned the classroom into a Williamsburg-like colonial village where the kids learned felting, book-binding, bullet and candle making. School was so special, in fact, that during one long stretch of home-bound snow days my daughter turned our family-room into a classroom where we took turns teaching our favorite subjects. We were all in love with teachers back then. But, somewhere along the way this school-love story took a terrible turn. I am not writing this letter as some bitter parent whose child failed under the system. My kid survived and some would say thrived (being accepted into a fine institution, Barnard College, for next fall). She won the game, yes, but what did she lose? Her vim and vigor? Her zest? Her love of learning has been hanging on by a thread for many years now. And she is not alone. All our kids lose when we force them to do homework until 2:00 in the morning Sunday through Thursday nights in order to make and keep those precious A’s for their critical GPA’s and class ranks. Teachers can’t risk assigning “no homework” because of the sheer volume of material required to pass AP tests. Their jobs and the kids’ transcripts are on the line, so homework it is. Every night. Hours and hours and hours of it. And no student can risk not doing homework because, as my daughter pointed out, this is the hand they’ve been dealt to play. If they don’t do their homework “out of principle,” they’re going to get a Zero which will lead to a lower grade, a lower GPA, lower class rank, lower their chances of getting into a good college, or finding a good job ... and so it goes. I suggest we continue the conversation Race to Nowhere started and help the next generation of students sail in less treacherous waters. Stop the AP hoarding. Allow teachers to teach the subjects they love rather than teaching to the test. Require “no homework” nights every two weeks to allow for absorption and rest. Take some of the power away from the test makers (ACT, SAT, PSAT, AP, EOC, EOG, etc.) by encouraging colleges to accept more subjective markers for success. Alexander Pope said, “A little learning is a dangerous thing,” but I believe a lack of the love of learning is much, much more dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Should states have the right to decide whether or not theirs is a "right to work" state? I'll bite. Umm... Since we're still pretending to be part of the UN, then shouldn't all states be following it? If not wouldn't (or shouldn't) the nearly half or so be subject to prosecution under federal law? I don't have the slightest clue. Still a newb to this issue. Besides bankruptcy or moving operations to a right to work state what leverage should employers have in labor disputes? Since we're on the topic of right to work, here's what the UDHR says about it. As for what the employers should be able to do? I don't know... I guess they shouldn't be allowed to do anything that contradicts the list above. What are your thoughts? First why is the UDHR relevant again? What does the Urantia say about it? And second how does it relate to employers hiring workers who feel the compensation is fair to replace those who refuse to work? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 First why is the UDHR relevant again? Um. You brought up the "right to work," that's why I brought it up. I still am confused as to the point you're trying to make. What does the Urantia say about it? Wat. And second how does it relate to employers hiring workers who feel the compensation is fair to replace those who refuse to work? I don't have the slightest idea, other than them not being allowed to infringe upon those rights. Steve, I honestly came into this topic, read it, and didn't understand what point you were trying to make (if you are even trying to make one). I googled some of the things you posted that I didn't understand, I am pretty damn ignorant to this topic, so, I'll ask again. Could I have your thoughts on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 He is finished with school, and needs to return back to college soon. A friend of mine wrote this and sent it into her local paper, I agree with her and I feel like she hits it out of the park with her comments. I agree to some extent. Emphasis on high stakes testing needs to go. It's ridiculous. However, all these complaints about AP classwork are wrong in my opinion. If you don't like the caseload, then don't take AP classes. Kids are getting college credits to take these classes and they should not be as on the same level as the general education classes. They are electives. These kids sign up for these classes. Nobody makes them take these classes. Of course they are hard. They are supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I view the outrageous amount of homework the kids are getting... to be just another assualt on the family. Seems like the more liberal teachers, lay on the heavy homework load, from the kids who have talked to me about it. It's about subtlely training kids to not follow their parent's teaching, but to to just overwhelmingly be influenced by the teachers with an agenda. I mean, most parents won't believe in gay marriage, just as an example. So, long term, to effect a social adjstment to society, I believe they want to plant the "seeds" in children's minds, and give them enough homework that school has taken over their waking hours at home in the evenings, and hours on weekends. On and on it goes, with, all too often, kids are taught to just parrot what the teacher says, even when it contradicts what the parents teach. It's called "nudge", the title of the book by Cass Sunstein, close confidant and member of Obamao's admin. A little nudge here, and there, and over time, you can effect changes in society that you want to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 First why is the UDHR relevant again? Um. You brought up the "right to work," that's why I brought it up. I still am confused as to the point you're trying to make. "right to work" states VT. There are many states that don't allow unions to force people to join and strike. They're called "right to work states." Mostly down south where much of the union controlled labor from the north relocated to. Goodyear moved tire building operations to Tennessee. What does the Urantia say about it? Wat. A joke. The Urantia ( a book somebody claimed was the maning of life left here by aliens) is as relevant as the UDHR. And second how does it relate to employers hiring workers who feel the compensation is fair to replace those who refuse to work?[/b] I don't have the slightest idea, other than them not being allowed to infringe upon those rights. Steve, I honestly came into this topic, read it, and didn't understand what point you were trying to make (if you are even trying to make one). I googled some of the things you posted that I didn't understand, I am pretty damn ignorant to this topic, so, I'll ask again. Could I have your thoughts on it? I've been clear I think. IMO people should have a right to form unions and strike if they feel the need to. But I do NOT think the employer should be forbidden to hire others who would want that job. If the union workers are so valueable that they cannot be reasonably replaced great. If they're not then someone else will replace them. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The governor of Virginia, Republican, says years ago, they passed a right to work law, and gov employees have no collective bargaining. but those gov employees are well paid, with terrific benefits. And taxes are low, and industry is still lining up to move there. That's a hint to the other states with skyrocketing state deficits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 It'd be great to see Ohio turn "right to work " considering our workforce and infrastructure. Maybe we could lure the manufacturing jobs back. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well I dont have any sympathy for government union workers when they cry. Maybe it would be nice if the unions were busted up for holding a monoply. It has happened before to businesses. http://www.nea.org/home/30068.htm http://www.neamb.com/5toRetire http://www.uhpa.org/newsitems/nea-news-you-can-use/ While the rest of us will have to work and get our assess taxed to death to support these pigs, these members can retire as if they had won the lottery. And I dont want to here they worked so hard on their job and some weeks they worked over a few hours. Try being self employed, you will work 70-80 hours a week to make it. The good thing about that is that when you do earn the pay as being self employed. You can stand tall because You Earned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 So for those who believe collective bargaining goes hand in hand with employers being prohibited from replacing strikers how about we eliminate laws against collusuion? Seems fair doesn't it? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 How would you define collusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 How would you define collusion? By it's definition. Businesses get together to fix prices and/or salaries and benefits. (Hint, it's illegal) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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