WPB Dawg Fan Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This has to be the closest thing I have seen in main media to what many of us have concluded here: Paul (Albany, OR): Matt, I read every week of your distaste for Derek Anderson. And though I do not believe he is a pro bowl quarterback he is in the middle of the pack regarding NFL qb's. You stated a few weeks back that you reserve judgement until a qb has about 20 NFL starts. Well DA now has 22 starts and his record as a starter is 13-9, for a franchise that has not truly learned how to win yet. Isn't it winning that this is all about anyhow? Just some thoughts. Thanks. SportsNation Matt Williamson: Winning is very important, but he became who I think he is when it mattered most last year when Clev was in the thick of a playoff hunt. I really believe that he just doesn't handle expectations and pressure well. I would take 20 starting QBs over DA in a heartbeat. One of my years at Pitt, we played against DA in our bowl game. Our D coaches-and myself to a degree-watched a lot of Oregon State film and thought that he was someone who panicked when times got tough. He did have S Jackson with him in the backfield at Oregon State by the way. Anyways, we attacked him. He folded. I haven't seen anythign at the NFL level to change my mind. I still contend that MANY NFL QBs could have succeeded as he did last year in his situation. Hope me proves me wrong because I don't like to talk down about guys, but I want to play against DA and not with him. And THAT is the crux of the problem. If you want to be a playoff team, you can't have a QB that crumbles under pressure and expectations. If for no other reason...this is why I think we need to see what other options we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 How long will it take for the people in charge to realize this and make a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Its starting to get concerning...the look on quinns face during the past 3 games is a look of im going to go somewhere else and play if i dont get a chance here...by rights DA should have been benched several times throughout this season even if only for a few drives and this frustration is beginning to show in a big way on bqs face... He likely feels like he is being overlooked and thinks he could swing those games when da is sucking we need to find out if quinn can lead this team because da while being a great backup qb is not the answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This has to be the closest thing I have seen in main media to what many of us have concluded here: You've looked behind every bush, and turned over every stone. And the fruit of your efforts is a comment from a guy who once worked at the U of Pitt who shares your view. Well done, WPB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This has to be the closest thing I have seen in main media to what many of us have concluded here: You've looked behind every bush, and turned over every stone. And the fruit of your efforts is a comment from a guy who once worked at the U of Pitt who shares your view. Well done, WPB. Actually, I have watched every game!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This is From Matt Williams on Nov 8th, 2007 (last season): For Further Analysis, Keep Reading… And now to look at some stories and chat transcripts to get a better feel for what the national media’s perceptions of the Browns are. First up, Scouts Inc’s Matt Williamson talked a little in his ESPN.com chat about the Browns’ come from behind victory last week, saying, Jay (NC): "Matt, when is everyone going to stop saying why the other team lost instead of why the browns won? That was a fair fight down to the wire, and the browns earned that one. I think Anderson is the real deal - improvement literally every game from day 1 - and I think the seahawks D was very tough and Anderson had his best game of the year." Matt Williamson: "Not sure that I can argue with that. Well said." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam (OH): "Matt, what do you think about Cleveland… Down 21-9 at half they fight back and again find a way to win these guys are playing with a lot of heart!" Matt Williamson: "They most certainly are and R Crennel should get some Coach of the Year votes. Dangerous offense. For the long term this season, I see the D still holding them back, but the future is very bright and this has been an extremely succesful season." Treye (Erie, PA): "Is the Browns managment kicking itself for giving up next year’s #1 for Brady Quinn, considering the success Derek Anderson is having this season? Also, who is the Browns QB of the future?" Matt Williamson: "Hard to say how that will play out, but usually in a situation like this, the older guy goes. Anderson is a RFA after the year. Clev will offer him the highest tender, which would get them a 1st and 3rd round pick as compensation if someone were to sign him. That might be steep, but they probably could trade him for a late 1st or early 2nd. Good problem to have. If you were in charge of Chicago, would you give up your number one for DA? Still, Quinn had BETTER be good though." Ole Matt sounded pretty high on Derek Anderson. No stories of years gone past at Pitt in these replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 more quality analysis from quality pundits..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 well, he still said we should have traded him. So I guess he sees Brady Quinn as the younger, Superior QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This has to be the closest thing I have seen in main media to what many of us have concluded here: You've looked behind every bush, and turned over every stone. And the fruit of your efforts is a comment from a guy who once worked at the U of Pitt who shares your view. Well done, WPB. Hey everybody look, it's Lums!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This is From Matt Williams on Nov 8th, 2007 (last season): For Further Analysis, Keep Reading… And now to look at some stories and chat transcripts to get a better feel for what the national media’s perceptions of the Browns are. First up, Scouts Inc’s Matt Williamson talked a little in his ESPN.com chat about the Browns’ come from behind victory last week, saying, Jay (NC): "Matt, when is everyone going to stop saying why the other team lost instead of why the browns won? That was a fair fight down to the wire, and the browns earned that one. I think Anderson is the real deal - improvement literally every game from day 1 - and I think the seahawks D was very tough and Anderson had his best game of the year." Matt Williamson: "Not sure that I can argue with that. Well said." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam (OH): "Matt, what do you think about Cleveland… Down 21-9 at half they fight back and again find a way to win these guys are playing with a lot of heart!" Matt Williamson: "They most certainly are and R Crennel should get some Coach of the Year votes. Dangerous offense. For the long term this season, I see the D still holding them back, but the future is very bright and this has been an extremely succesful season." Treye (Erie, PA): "Is the Browns managment kicking itself for giving up next year’s #1 for Brady Quinn, considering the success Derek Anderson is having this season? Also, who is the Browns QB of the future?" Matt Williamson: "Hard to say how that will play out, but usually in a situation like this, the older guy goes. Anderson is a RFA after the year. Clev will offer him the highest tender, which would get them a 1st and 3rd round pick as compensation if someone were to sign him. That might be steep, but they probably could trade him for a late 1st or early 2nd. Good problem to have. If you were in charge of Chicago, would you give up your number one for DA? Still, Quinn had BETTER be good though." Ole Matt sounded pretty high on Derek Anderson. No stories of years gone past at Pitt in these replies. How do you get pretty high out of that? He was saying CLE should trade DA. What value he believe CLE could get out of DA on the market is not a scouting take on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 How do you get pretty high out of that? He was saying CLE should trade DA. What value he believe CLE could get out of DA on the market is not a scouting take on him. Did you miss the part where Williamson agreed (or I believe he said that he couldn't argue with:) "Anderson being the real deal", or the part he alluded that if he were in Chicago's shoes that he would pull the trigger on offering a first rounder for DA (as in, "Wouldn't you?")? NOTE: at the time of that comment, the Bears were 3-5, so he obviously considered that pick being mid-range first round. I'd say that is a bit of an endorsement over the original comments made in the opening post of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 How do you get pretty high out of that? He was saying CLE should trade DA. What value he believe CLE could get out of DA on the market is not a scouting take on him. Did you miss the part where Williamson agreed (or I believe he said that he couldn't argue with:) "Anderson being the real deal", or the part he alluded that if he were in Chicago's shoes that he would pull the trigger on offering a first rounder for DA (as in, "Wouldn't you?")? NOTE: at the time of that comment, the Bears were 3-5, so he obviously considered that pick being mid-range first round. I'd say that is a bit of an endorsement over the original comments made in the opening post of this thread. What a man crush you have. Give me a break. A guy throws away 3 games but wait he still great. What a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 What a man crush you have. Give me a break. A guy throws away 3 games but wait he still great. What a joke! You really need to stay on topic. I merely refuted Williamson's words here against those he stated a year prior. I voiced no opinion of DA in this thread, just my opinion that Williamson's words to lead this thread are tainted. He came off as a Mr. knowitall in his recent comments and I simply showed where he obviously thought he knew-it-all last November too ... although the opposite view. Now, about your man crush for me ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I guess unlike some people...Williamson has learned of his error by actually WATCHING game tapes of DA since November.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 What a man crush you have. Give me a break. A guy throws away 3 games but wait he still great. What a joke! You really need to stay on topic. I merely refuted Williamson's words here against those he stated a year prior. I voiced no opinion of DA in this thread, just my opinion that Williamson's words to lead this thread are tainted. He came off as a Mr. knowitall in his recent comments and I simply showed where he obviously thought he knew-it-all last November too ... although the opposite view. Now, about your man crush for me ..... A lot of your post are about how great DA is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I guess unlike some people...Williamson has learned of his error by actually WATCHING game tapes of DA since November.... Really? Because he stated in his latest comments that he started to form that opinion playing against DA in college in 2002. Even that observation is lame, as Anderson was only a Sophomore then in his first year starting. That would be like someone in 2014 dissing Terrelle Pryor for the game he lost verse Penn State this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think they are sticking with D Lame for trade bait. Anybody that goes 5-21 going into the 4th quarter would have been pulled. Why esle play him. As for BQ not looking good in practice, he doesn't get any reps. He is the scout team qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmac12 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 That is not true. When a coach believes that his QB gives him the best chance to win they do not bench them even when they are 7 -21 (or whatever it was). Most coaches stick with their guy, you do not see alot of switches around the NFL. I still just say that the coaches see these guys every week. IF the ones with their jobs on the line felt BQ gave them a better chance to win than DA then they would start him. It is obvious that the coaching staff is very reluctant to put BQ in. If they wanted to they had plenty of chances to put BQ in. The Browns are in the playoff hunt and would not be willing to sacrifice the season in order to try and increase trade value for DA. That is not how the NFL is run, it is generally win now or go home. Especially after a 10 win season and high expectations. My only conclusion is that BQ must not be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 That is not true. When a coach believes that his QB gives him the best chance to win they do not bench them even when they are 7 -21 (or whatever it was). Most coaches stick with their guy, you do not see alot of switches around the NFL. I still just say that the coaches see these guys every week. IF the ones with their jobs on the line felt BQ gave them a better chance to win than DA then they would start him. It is obvious that the coaching staff is very reluctant to put BQ in. If they wanted to they had plenty of chances to put BQ in. The Browns are in the playoff hunt and would not be willing to sacrifice the season in order to try and increase trade value for DA. That is not how the NFL is run, it is generally win now or go home. Especially after a 10 win season and high expectations. My only conclusion is that BQ must not be ready. Good points, but I don't quite see it that way. For one thing, they don't know what they have in Quinn until he plays, period. Practice is not games, they are controlled with no pass rush and no forcing the QB to make plays. Look at the good QB's around the league like Brees, Big Gay and such. These guys make plays after they break down a ton of times. BQ is a pretty athletic guy who can make those plays. Plays where Winslow needs just another second to get loose and that quick side step from the rush creates that opening for a big play. DA is completely the opposite, a guy who needs everything perfectly in sync to have success and opposing teams know this. The Browns have been a hair away from putting Quinn in, but DA has salvaged his job just enough to keep him in the lineup. The numbers don't lie, they just don't, not this far into the season and the last half of last year. The Browns are going to ride this guy until they're out of it, that's what they've decided to do. They proclaimed him the man from the top on down and have tried to avoid a controversy big time moreso than not believing BQ can play IMO. It may ultimately pay off, but I have a hard time putting faith into DA at this point. This week will be huge because it's the Flying Rats, so we'll see once again if DA can get it done. He's cut down on the stupid picks for now, but his completion % remains pretty bad. I think he was given the ultimatum to knock off the TO's and just manage the offense, so we'll see if this continues. I have a hard time believing it will going by this guy's career to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 How do you get pretty high out of that? He was saying CLE should trade DA. What value he believe CLE could get out of DA on the market is not a scouting take on him. Did you miss the part where Williamson agreed (or I believe he said that he couldn't argue with:) "Anderson being the real deal", or the part he alluded that if he were in Chicago's shoes that he would pull the trigger on offering a first rounder for DA (as in, "Wouldn't you?")? NOTE: at the time of that comment, the Bears were 3-5, so he obviously considered that pick being mid-range first round. I'd say that is a bit of an endorsement over the original comments made in the opening post of this thread. He responded that he couldn't argue with the following questions/statements. He could be endorsing the opening, middle or end. I really can't read that as him saying he believe DA was the real deal. Jay (NC): "Matt, when is everyone going to stop saying why the other team lost instead of why the browns won? That was a fair fight down to the wire, and the browns earned that one. I think Anderson is the real deal - improvement literally every game from day 1 - and I think the seahawks D was very tough and Anderson had his best game of the year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBestPlayersPlay Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Yeah ATE is definately reaching on this one, that's for sure. MAtt got fooled after a while last season, much like I did. I've said it before DA = fools gold. We have opposing teams praying DA keeps hanging on to his job by a thread. Very frustrating. Windows don't stay open very long in todays NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Honestly, you won't know how much better or worse BQ is until you see him n a real game. You just won't. yeah I bet he would throw 3 TDs in the first half if they would have given him the start at Detroilet, right shep? Word of advice to anybody having to deal with these BQ Fags trying to say that BQ is an unknown who's never played....just tell them Brady Quinn played a shitload this preseason including 2 starts and got waxed by all the 1st and 2nd teamers including by the Detroilet defense. Then in the Detroilet post game presser RAC said BQ's got a lot to learn. If BQ Nation had a half an effing memory cell in their brain when it comes to the golden boy's play they'd know that anybody who plays him is gonna just keep blitzing him since he can't make any decision in the pocket whatsoever except to dump off, dump off, dump off, dump off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangenotbrown Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 If it takes a while for him to go from every-other-game good quarterbacking to every-game-good-quarterbacking thats all part of the process. I am really starting to get behind this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Good points, but I don't quite see it that way. For one thing, they don't know what they have in Quinn until he plays, period. Practice is not games, they are controlled with no pass rush and no forcing the QB to make plays. If they didn't know what they had in him in practice they sure as shit knew what they had in his "breakout" game of his career in the motor city. It was a stellar performance against the powerhouse Detroilet Loins where Quinn directed a full two drives beyond the midfield stripe in only 3 qtrs of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timugen Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 If it takes a while for him to go from every-other-game good quarterbacking to every-game-good-quarterbacking thats all part of the process. I am really starting to get behind this kid. "Starting to"?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmac12 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Forgot to say I changed named. This is justheretohelp but I thought that name was stupid so I changed it so I could be more of a real poster and not so much a poser. I like this team no matter who QB is. I got behind them because of DA but I like to see good play just as much as the next guy. When DA was at Oregon State he was a bit frustrating to watch at times. You know he can make every throw in the game, but he does need to feel good behind his line. My points on this post is not saying DA is the long term answer. My point is that for whatever reason the coaches have decided that DA gives them the best chance at the playoffs and keeping their jobs. Nobody is going to put their job on the line unless they think they are right. The fans want to see what BQ can do in real game situation, but it seems to me that the coaches want to stay with DA. As I have agreed their have been several chances this year to pull DA and put BQ in the game to see if he could spark the team. The coaches did not do that. I have to assume that they know more than I do, because if they don't then they should be fired. I disagree with alot on this board in that I do think that DA has alot of upside. He has not capped out on his talent. He needs to improve on alot of things, but from the games I have been able to see It seems to me that he has cut down on his ints and has improved on his short passes. He needs to up his completion percentage to around 60%, I agree. Last game he had something like 14 completions for 280 yards. That is pretty good production. I would not say he has turned the corner. I said on a different post that he needs to have 5 good to great games out of 10, not 1. He needs to have 3 managed games out of 10, not 2. He needs to have only 2 poor games out of 10, not 7 or 8. He has to improve, no doubt. But it seems that the coaching staff is behind him and I have to believe it is for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timugen Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Nobody is going to put their job on the line unless they think they are right. I highlighted the operative word for you there. Seriously, does anyone voluntarily do anything in their profession thinking that they're wrong in doing so? Yet people make incorrect decisions all the time, thinking that they were right. There is a reason that multiple NFL coaches get canned every single year. Just because they are the coach doesn't mean that they can't be wrong....after all, Crennelephant thought that Charlie Frye gave us the best chance to win last year, and we all know how that worked out. Even if Quinn were better than DA in practice, Crennelephant will never let him see a game at this point because he's too afraid (justified or not) of Quinn making rookie mistakes. It's like the catch-22 of a young college grad not being considered for jobs because of their lack of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Honestly, you won't know how much better or worse BQ is until you see him n a real game. You just won't. yeah I bet he would throw 3 TDs in the first half if they would have given him the start at Detroilet, right shep? Word of advice to anybody having to deal with these BQ Fags trying to say that BQ is an unknown who's never played....just tell them Brady Quinn played a shitload this preseason including 2 starts and got waxed by all the 1st and 2nd teamers including by the Detroilet defense. Then in the Detroilet post game presser RAC said BQ's got a lot to learn. If BQ Nation had a half an effing memory cell in their brain when it comes to the golden boy's play they'd know that anybody who plays him is gonna just keep blitzing him since he can't make any decision in the pocket whatsoever except to dump off, dump off, dump off, dump off. Dump off you say Lums? You mean something that DA has failed to master? I love seeing DA throw those swing passes 5' over guys heads. When you gonna figure out preseason stats don't mean squat. Pathetic- if all you have to hang your hat on is the preseason game against the Lions as a reason Quinn shouldn't start. You do remember that Braylon Edwards didn't play, neither did Jamal Lewis. Couple of o-linemen out too IIRC. Ahem, if you want to go the preseason route, your wonder boy DA looked like total crap in the Monday nighter against the Giants, 4-10, 40 yards, and a lost fumble that led to points. Amazing how he looked great against the same team when it counted. And you want to posit Quinn can't do the same? Anderson is 31st in qb rating, 24th in yards, and 34th in completion %- any other team, that's a trip directly to the bench. That's with near bulletproof protection by the o-line BTW. If DA was playing behind the Steeler's sieve, he'd already be on IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceloft Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Allow me to reply to hoorta in Lum's stead. "Last year BQ nation was pimping his great preseason performance. Obviously everyone who likes BQ all has the same opinion, so obviously you believed last year that his preseason performance meant he's going to be a great QB. Now that he had a 'bad' preseason this year, it suddenly means nothing. BQ nation blah blah blah blah blah blah. DA rules." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Good points, but I don't quite see it that way. For one thing, they don't know what they have in Quinn until he plays, period. Practice is not games, they are controlled with no pass rush and no forcing the QB to make plays. If they didn't know what they had in him in practice they sure as shit knew what they had in his "breakout" game of his career in the motor city. It was a stellar performance against the powerhouse Detroilet Loins where Quinn directed a full two drives beyond the midfield stripe in only 3 qtrs of play. DA is crap get over it. Maybe BQ is to. Get over the BQ fags issue and look in the mirror. Your so in love with DA it's sick. The guy costs us 3 games with horrible qb play not decent but horrible get off it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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