I Know Why Pioli Likes Ferentz

[Flugel]

My favorite Oline since the 80s was the one coached up by Kirk Ferentz on our 90s team that went 11-5 and BEAT NE in the first round of the playoffs. The oline was very well coached as it put Leroy Hoard in the pro Bowl. True story.

 

Then I looked at THIS Bowl Season and I saw the ONLY Big 10 Team that didn't wussy out was Iowa. We can pretend that McDaniels has alot more NFL experience but that's just not the case. Nobody knows this more than Pioli.

 

I want a HEAD Coach not a coordinator folks. We've done countless Coordinators and the ONLY one that seemed to work was Marty BECAUSE he was already here not being spoiled NFL utopia elsewhere for culture shock syndrome of what it REALLY takes for building a winner. I don't WANT a kid that just started shaving because we won't have ANY of the following here for him right off the bat: 1) Bill Belichick, 2) Established Team Leaders, 3) A second WR an opponet HAS to cover, 4) A RB with upside or built for 20 carries, 5) Healthy TEs (Winslow hasn't had seperation after his 3rd knee suregrry and staph infection).

 

Iowa beat Penn State with ALOT less kids that will be playign on Sundays. When you see Iowa with a 9-4 record, it's not like ALOT of studs are choosing midwest cornfields over Palm Trees and/or stadiums seating capacities of 100,000 plus. So HOW do they get it done? Bob Sanders would say "I had a GREAT college coach."

 

Okay, so how does a wide eyed rookie like Orlando Brown step up from small school to bulldozing paths for Leroys Hoards against Philly's TOP Defense and Dallas' playoff caliber team? Easy, we had a cohesive Oline much like Iowa always quietly has since the day Feretz arrived. We didn't have the MOST glamorous RB but he had such an impressive final 9-10 weeks that he made the Pro Bowl while guys like Tony Jones and Orlando Brown got snubbed. I guess putting Hoard in the Pro Bowl as a FB was a backhanded compliment to the oline.

 

Furthermore, John Harbaugh wasn't an Xs and Os guy, he started in this league as a Strength and Conditioning Coach and worked his way up to STs Coach. His first priority as HC was to KEEP the Xs and Os DC all his inherited vets adored. THEN, he got the former OC Ken Cameron FIRED as Head Coach in Miami to play chess for his Offense.

 

Folks, Ferentz HAS NFL experience right here in Cleveland when we were GOOD because of the position he coached. He also has Head Coaching experience where he's won alot of games without the top recruiting densities that play for teams he's beating. There's ALOT of NFL people that look up to Ferentz and it's not because he LACKS the NFL experience. It's because of his ability to work with the no-name types and turn them into winners.

- Tom F.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

My favorite Oline since the 80s was the one coached up by Kirk Ferentz on our 90s team that went 11-5 and BEAT NE in the first round of the playoffs. The oline was very well coached as it put Leroy Hoard in the pro Bowl. True story.

 

Then I looked at THIS Bowl Season and I saw the ONLY Big 10 Team that didn't wussy out was Iowa. We can pretend that McDaniels has alot more NFL experience but that's just not the case. Nobody knows this more than Pioli.

 

I want a HEAD Coach not a coordinator folks. We've done countless Coordinators and the ONLY one that seemed to work was Marty BECAUSE he was already here not being spoiled NFL utopia elsewhere for culture shock syndrome of what it REALLY takes for building a winner. I don't WANT a kid that just started shaving because we won't have ANY of the following here for him right off the bat: 1) Bill Belichick, 2) Established Team Leaders, 3) A second WR an opponet HAS to cover, 4) A RB with upside or built for 20 carries, 5) Healthy TEs (Winslow hasn't had seperation after his 3rd knee suregrry and staph infection).

 

Iowa beat Penn State with ALOT less kids that will be playign on Sundays. When you see Iowa with a 9-4 record, it's not like ALOT of studs are choosing midwest cornfields over Palm Trees and/or stadiums seating capacities of 100,000 plus. So HOW do they get it done? Bob Sanders would say "I had a GREAT college coach."

 

Okay, so how does a wide eyed rookie like Orlando Brown step up from small school to bulldozing paths for Leroys Hoards against Philly's TOP Defense and Dallas' playoff caliber team? Easy, we had a cohesive Oline much like Iowa always quietly has since the day Feretz arrived. We didn't have the MOST glamorous RB but he had such an impressive final 9-10 weeks that he made the Pro Bowl while guys like Tony Jones and Orlando Brown got snubbed. I guess putting Hoard in the Pro Bowl as a FB was a backhanded compliment to the oline.

 

Furthermore, John Harbaugh wasn't an Xs and Os guy, he started in this league as a Strength and Conditioning Coach and worked his way up to STs Coach. His first priority as HC was to KEEP the Xs and Os DC all his inherited vets adored. THEN, he got the former OC Ken Cameron FIRED as Head Coach in Miami to play chess for his Offense.

 

Folks, Ferentz HAS NFL experience right here in Cleveland when we were GOOD because of the position he coached. He also has Head Coaching experience where he's won alot of games without the top recruiting densities that play for teams he's beating. There's ALOT of NFL people that look up to Ferentz and it's not because he LACKS the NFL experience. It's because of his ability to work with the no-name types and turn them into winners.

- Tom F.

 

 

Flugs,

 

This is basically an elaboration on some of the things I touched on in Shep's 'Pioli Update' thread. I agree wholeheartedly. When the narrow-minded ones look past the 'I don't want another college coach' dogma, they should like what they see in Ferentz. The best part of your post spoke to what I like the most: he did a lot with relatively little. There's a reason his name continually popped up over the last five years or so, for NFL head coaching openings. Don't look at his W-L record at Iowa, look at what he did with those players while they were there.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Flugs...that was an EXCELLENT post. Right now, I have to say my two favorite candidates are Mangini and Ferentz.

 

Why?

 

Because BOTH have HC experience. BOTH have NFL experience. BOTH have won with lesser talent. And BOTH have ties to one of the possible GM candidates in Pioli.

 

I think it is important for everyone to remember that it is CRITICAL for the FO and HC to work together in lock-step. That it is CRITICAL that the PERSONNEL guy goes out and gets the kinds of players the HC likes to have on his team.

 

It is also CRITICAL that the HC have ties to some good COORDINATORS. Generally, if you go out and get a coordinator and make him the HC...he only knows the guys he was around...and that means you have rookies at HC and coordinator...and that makes for mistakes.

 

You take a guy with HC experience...and he brings in guys with OC/DC experience.

 

As for Shanahan and Marty...the problem with both of them is they will expect too much power...and I want a team with checks and balances...not a dictatorship.

[DTBH]

I want a HEAD Coach not a coordinator folks.

 

For an organization who already has a winning culture and identity established (the Steelers), a young fierce, though maybe unproven coach (Tomlin) can be the way to go. They get nurtured into the position, and learn on the go without hurting the team all too much. It's similar to the QB position, where an unproven guy with potential (Roethlisberger) can be nurtured into a winning environment, but in an unstable place a veteran quarterback is needed.

 

Now, if we were one of those organizations that had the winning culture established, McDaniels would be the absolute no-brainer. I think he's a sharp guy, who has the ability to connect with the players and will them to play their hearts out (much like Tomlin.)

 

But since we're in the shitter right now, we need a steady hand from a guy who knows what he's doing. That's Mangini.

 

[mole644]

I'm indifferent on Ferentz, don't know enough about him to form a sound opinion either way, yet. But I can't really see him being our next coach. If Pioli is brought it, Ferentz will probably be atop his short list, however, Lerner still writes the checks. And I can't see Lerner wanting to go with another college coach after the Botch Davis fiasco. It will probably take a good sell job on Pioli's part to get Lerner to agree to it.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

For an organization who already has a winning culture and identity established (the Steelers), a young fierce, though maybe unproven coach (Tomlin) can be the way to go. They get nurtured into the position, and learn on the go without hurting the team all too much. It's similar to the QB position, where an unproven guy with potential (Roethlisberger) can be nurtured into a winning environment, but in an unstable place a veteran quarterback is needed.

 

Now, if we were one of those organizations that had the winning culture established, McDaniels would be the absolute no-brainer. I think he's a sharp guy, who has the ability to connect with the players and will them to play their hearts out (much like Tomlin.)

 

But since we're in the shitter right now, we need a steady hand from a guy who knows what he's doing. That's Mangini.

 

 

Let's keep in mind that the only Pittsburgh coaching turnover was Tomlin himself. They kept Arians and LeBeau, so Tomlin was stepping into a situation where he could just manage the lockerroom. I can still remember when they hired him, there was all this talk about Tomlin bringing in his 4-3 from Minnesota and eventually fazing that in. Yeah, great journalism there. Why do that when LeBeau is churning out a nasty 3-4 every year? The point being that it's easy for a new coach to succeed when there is stability or experience at the coordinator positions. Part of Romeo's problem here was unproven/inexperienced coordinators: Carthon, Chudzinski, Grantham, Tucker, etc.

 

[OconRecon]

Great post.

 

Although it sure seems like Mangini is the apple of Lerner's eye at the moment.

 

You sure start to wonder if the delay in signing Pioli isn't about dollars, but about the HC.

[DTBH]

Great post.

 

Although it sure seems like Mangini is the apple of Lerner's eye at the moment.

 

You sure start to wonder if the delay in signing Pioli isn't about dollars, but about the HC.

 

That's what it seems. Lerner wants Mangini, but why would Pioli leave New England to come to another place where he doesn't get what he wants (Ferentz)? I'd probably rather get Mangini than Pioli if I had to pick.

[mole644]

That's what it seems. Lerner wants Mangini, but why would Pioli leave New England to come to another place where he doesn't get what he wants (Ferentz)? I'd probably rather get Mangini than Pioli if I had to pick.

I too like Mangini over Ferentz, however, I think Pioli knows more about running a football team than Lerner does. So I guess I just have to sit back and trust the experts.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

I too like Mangini over Ferentz, however, I think Pioli knows more about running a football team than Lerner does. So I guess I just have to sit back and trust the experts.

 

 

Bingo. And that's my fear right now. Mr. Lerner should find the right football guy and then let the football guy make the decision about the HC.

 

Again, not to harp on things here, but I worry about Mangini with a mystery GM especially when I look at what happened to him in New York. Tannenbaum spent all this money on free agents and brought in Favre which made the fans automatically think, "Holy crap, we're pretty good" when in reality he didn't spend wisely. Then Favre goes Mark Malone on his own team and it costs the coach his job.

 

I want unity between the coach and GM. Ferentz and Pioli would have this and it would be the kind of unity where their decisions can be a two-way street. What I mean by that is Pioli would respect Ferentz's opinion on whom to play based on they dynamics in the lockerroom and at practice.

[WilsonTheVolleyball]

Great post, TC. I'd be satisified with Ferentz. I still fail to see what all this sudden Mangini love is about.

[Gips]

My favorite Oline since the 80s was the one coached up by Kirk Ferentz on our 90s team that went 11-5 and BEAT NE in the first round of the playoffs. The oline was very well coached as it put Leroy Hoard in the pro Bowl. True story.

 

Then I looked at THIS Bowl Season and I saw the ONLY Big 10 Team that didn't wussy out was Iowa. We can pretend that McDaniels has alot more NFL experience but that's just not the case. Nobody knows this more than Pioli.

 

I want a HEAD Coach not a coordinator folks. We've done countless Coordinators and the ONLY one that seemed to work was Marty BECAUSE he was already here not being spoiled NFL utopia elsewhere for culture shock syndrome of what it REALLY takes for building a winner. I don't WANT a kid that just started shaving because we won't have ANY of the following here for him right off the bat: 1) Bill Belichick, 2) Established Team Leaders, 3) A second WR an opponet HAS to cover, 4) A RB with upside or built for 20 carries, 5) Healthy TEs (Winslow hasn't had seperation after his 3rd knee suregrry and staph infection).

 

Iowa beat Penn State with ALOT less kids that will be playign on Sundays. When you see Iowa with a 9-4 record, it's not like ALOT of studs are choosing midwest cornfields over Palm Trees and/or stadiums seating capacities of 100,000 plus. So HOW do they get it done? Bob Sanders would say "I had a GREAT college coach."

 

Okay, so how does a wide eyed rookie like Orlando Brown step up from small school to bulldozing paths for Leroys Hoards against Philly's TOP Defense and Dallas' playoff caliber team? Easy, we had a cohesive Oline much like Iowa always quietly has since the day Feretz arrived. We didn't have the MOST glamorous RB but he had such an impressive final 9-10 weeks that he made the Pro Bowl while guys like Tony Jones and Orlando Brown got snubbed. I guess putting Hoard in the Pro Bowl as a FB was a backhanded compliment to the oline.

 

Furthermore, John Harbaugh wasn't an Xs and Os guy, he started in this league as a Strength and Conditioning Coach and worked his way up to STs Coach. His first priority as HC was to KEEP the Xs and Os DC all his inherited vets adored. THEN, he got the former OC Ken Cameron FIRED as Head Coach in Miami to play chess for his Offense.

 

Folks, Ferentz HAS NFL experience right here in Cleveland when we were GOOD because of the position he coached. He also has Head Coaching experience where he's won alot of games without the top recruiting densities that play for teams he's beating. There's ALOT of NFL people that look up to Ferentz and it's not because he LACKS the NFL experience. It's because of his ability to work with the no-name types and turn them into winners.

- Tom F.

 

Great post flugs it got me researching ferentz and i actually like what i see..he would be very capable of building the browns into a winner given a few years it would be possible once he has rebuilt the team it would maintain a definate structure,consistancy and may i dare say it..an identity!

 

So now im liking pioli again...lol

 

 

[Guest 88fingerslewy]

Coach before GM is my opinion of the hiring process. Here's why.

 

GM's

 

-aren't in the team meetings all the time.

 

-never have to motivate players that under-achieve.

 

-don't dictate the real philosophy of how a team plays. That comes from the leadership of the HC on down.

 

Say for instance we get Mangini who we all seem to like as an option. Say he comes in Day 1 and says I know who (coaches) I can surround myself with to turn this team around.

 

He'll watch hours of film and MAYBE say "our LB's are better than people say, we just have to coach 'em up and put 'em in the right schemes. Or maybe he'll be like Singletary and tell his team, "I want players that think football matters." Not pay-cheque collecting under-achievers.

 

There's a lot of you here than really know your music. Think of this as an analogy. Say there's a great band that goes with a different manager and he says, "Nope, the Fenders have to go, you'll be playing Gibson's from now on, 'cause that's what "I" want."

 

The leader of the team should come from the Front Line of the operation not the Front Office. If Lerner really wants Mangini or whoever, then get them. A GM or Player Personnel guy should facilitate bringing in the talent the HC and HIS coaches want because the intimate strengths and weaknesses are only visible to them, not someone behind a desk.

 

We all know football's a game of inches, there might be players that, to us fans aren't getting the job done. It might be something simple like a bad habit i.e. a bad first move on a pass rush, a bad first move on a read from a LB, a bad first step from a DB, etc.

 

Here's an analogy for ya: I saw Robbie Kneivel jump the volcano at the Mirage in Vegas in New Years Eve. What if a month before the jump his manager said we're going to use THIS motorcycle now because "I" like it better, even though you're doing the jump....because I'M calling the shots around here.

 

In short Mr. Lerner, don't jump through any of the hoops Scott Pioli lays out in front of you. YOU'RE the BOSS. YOU CALL THE SHOTS....hire the best coach and then let HIM call his.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

College Football Grand Larceny: Kirk Ferentz

College Football TheBigLead July 7th. 2008, 1:45pm

Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz (record over the last three years: 19-18) has a salary higher than Ohio State’s Jim Tressel (National title game two years in a row), Mack Brown of Texas (title in 2005), and Mark Richt at Georgia (title this year?). This … something seems wrong about this. Intern Parrish wonders why the heck Ferentz is making so much loot and yet the Hawkeyes aren’t winning jack and the mediocre Big 10. When will the Iowans put pressure on a coach who hasn’t accomplished squat since 2002, and hasn’t won a bowl game since 1/1/2005?

 

Pete Carroll, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Les Miles, Nick Saban, Charlie Weis and Kirk Ferentz. Now, just like Sesame Street taught us, which one (or two in this case) does not belong? Once you take out Charlie Weis and his stupendous contract, Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz takes home the award for grand larceny.

 

All of those coaches, save Ferentz and the Chuckster, have won national titles, yet somehow Ferentz seems to escape the pressure that should accompany his member ship of the $3 million and over club. That’s right kids; Kirk Ferentz makes mo’ chedda’ than Mack Brown, Tommy Tubberville, Rich Rodriguez, Mark Richt and national runner-up Jim Tressel. Not only does Ferentz seem to avoid public scrutiny, the university seems intent on protecting him.

 

His agent must be worth his weight in gold; maybe floating his name around every season for various new jobs has its payoffs.

 

In the last three years, Ferentz has led Iowa to a 19-18 record—going 11-13 in the awful Big 10—with its last bowl win coming after the 2004 season. According to Rivals.com, Iowa has finished 6th in the Big 10 (38th nationally) in recruiting rankings from 2002-2008—slightly better than Wisconsin, Michigan State and Purdue—yet all three have performed better on the field.

 

Wisconsin and Illinois seem to have improved in the last five years, whereas Iowa looks as though it is heading to the back of the pack. In a time when the Big 10 may be at its weakest, Iowa has fallen far too hard for its coach to earn as much as Ferentz does.

 

In some ways, I feel for Iowa. The university felt it had an amazing coach who could come in and channel Hayden Fry and bring Iowa to the promise land. Instead, they have a decent coach who won the Big 10 twice and then cashed out. Also, Ferentz did not exactly weave through a gauntlet to get to the top of the Big 10. Iowa played only two top-25 teams in the regular season in which it co-shared* the Big 10 title and missed playing No. 1 Ohio State in conference. Way to go Big 10. Later that year, the Hawkeyes were bitch slapped by to USC in their lone BCS appearance.

 

You have to believe that one is worth what one is paid, but it sure seems as though Ferentz is stealing money. Iowa is struggling while the Big 10 is at its worst and it appears to me that if Ferentz does not win this season, those in charge may need to reevaluate their program.

 

Funny how most of the conjecture in that article ends up with egg on its face after the results of this season. Tuberville was fired. Rodriguez was humiliated with a 3-9 season. Richt's team couldn't maintain its lofty ranking. Wisconsin and Illinois improved itself? Wisky's coach is a disgrace and Illinois showed it doesn't have staying power.

 

Again, Ferentz is coaching at IOWA!! Winning the Big Ten there is like trying to win SEC at South Carolina (how's that working out for Spurrier?). It's not going to happen, but yet he has had plenty of very good seasons and he has MAXIMIZED his talent.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Seems like it boils down to; if you want Pioli he gets all power and he may want Ferentz which Lerner doesn't want. Or, if Lerner is sold on Mangini then he needs to find another GM.

 

So, bottom line is who do you want to be the face of the franchise Pioli or Mangini.

 

Personally, I like what both bring but also have some doubt about each. "Absolute Power" bothers me. Now we are back to Savage and Butch Davis. But he has the experience to run that FO.

 

With Mangini, you get an experienced coach with a lot of upside. He made mistakes in New York, but reminds me of Belichick when he was here. Will he learn from his mistkes when he gets another job and grow like Belichick did? Also, he's a coach only and needs guidence from the front office. Can we find a GM that will say, yes I can work with him and share responsibility of roster moves.

 

In defense of Mangini, how would you like to be building a team and have a GM tell you we just traded your QB and are bringing in Favre so retool your offense to suit his strengths. Sort of like what happened here with Savage and Crennell.

[Flugel]

Flugs...that was an EXCELLENT post. Right now, I have to say my two favorite candidates are Mangini and Ferentz.

 

Why?

 

Because BOTH have HC experience. BOTH have NFL experience. BOTH have won with lesser talent. And BOTH have ties to one of the possible GM candidates in Pioli.

 

I think it is important for everyone to remember that it is CRITICAL for the FO and HC to work together in lock-step. That it is CRITICAL that the PERSONNEL guy goes out and gets the kinds of players the HC likes to have on his team.

 

It is also CRITICAL that the HC have ties to some good COORDINATORS. Generally, if you go out and get a coordinator and make him the HC...he only knows the guys he was around...and that means you have rookies at HC and coordinator...and that makes for mistakes.

 

Excellent points WPB. Mangini and Ferentz are my favorite 2 choices too. What's going to be VERY important is how quickly we get a HC hired. The earlier this happens, the BETTER the chances of getting the picks of the litter at OC and DC become. I think in Baltimore, the proof is in the pudding with the model of their success in hiring/rehiring the right Coordinators. If we wait until after Superbowl Sunday again, we run the same risk we ran last time when most of the ideal guys were already employed for their next season.

 

Harbaugh is the Head Coach who's NEVER been the chess player on game Day. He's the quality control and consultant to his Coordinators. The VETS in Baltimore wanted to keep Ryan because they ENJOY his innovative mind and creativity for sic em. Ken Cameron who is a BETTER OC than he is a Head Coach came back to his comfort zone of playing chess with MORE than pawns. He didn't wake up a more intelligent person in Baltimore than he was in Miami. He just gets choose from Ray Rice to Willis McGahee to the freight train behind the crushing blocking of Lo Neal. The ONLY change they made was at QB and anytime you repalce Kyle Boller - your offense gets remarkably better as we witnessed in 2006 and 2008. Clayton and Mason had some monster days. Offense was fun again.

 

- Tom F.