Flugel Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think a game changing Safety like Ed Reed or Troy Polamolu comes around once in a blue moon. It's no mistake or surprise that either are in the conference final 4. BOTH guys are centerpieces of gameplans and rightfully so. This year we're going to have a tough decision in round 1. It seems like there's alot of GOOD choices but I think a guy like Taylor Mays can bring the sudden impact we're longing for. 4.2s at 235 remind me that football collisions support the laws of physics every time. You can't teach speed or WANTING to drill receivers in center field. The kid either has it or wishes he has it. I just watched what the RIGHT Centerfielder means to an entire defense in a playoff game. A QB that NEVER throws picks found Ed Reed twice today. One ended a potential scoring drive while the other put 7 points on the board for Baltimore. All Joey Flaccoseagulls had to do was handoff and he had a margin of error by his defense that allowed him to be 9 of 23 passing without anyone noticing it's relevance. - Tom F. (History shows me that putting a guy named Mays in Centerfield isn't such a bad thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnier Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Remind me again who it was that we picked over Ed Reed....so I can really get a healthy case of heartburn going. We screwed the pooch on that one. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNSofSTEEL08 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think a game changing Safety like Ed Reed or Troy Polamolu comes around once in a blue moon. It's no mistake or surprise that either are in the conference final 4. BOTH guys are centerpieces of gameplans and rightfully so. This year we're going to have a tough decision in round 1. It seems like there's alot of GOOD choices but I think a guy like Taylor Mays can bring the sudden impact we're longing for. 4.2s at 235 remind me that football collisions support the laws of physics every time. You can't teach speed or WANTING to drill receivers in center field. The kid either has it or wishes he has it. I just watched what the RIGHT Centerfielder means to an entire defense in a playoff game. A QB that NEVER throws picks found Ed Reed twice today. One ended a potential scoring drive while the other put 7 points on the board for Baltimore. All Joey Flaccoseagulls had to do was handoff and he had a margin of error by his defense that allowed him to be 9 of 23 passing without anyone noticing it's relevance. - Tom F. (History shows me that putting a guy named Mays in Centerfield isn't such a bad thing) Love Troy... the thing Reed "adds" is the Potential to take EVERY Turnover he gets to the House...its ridiculous. He is a Mother.....to the maxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Remind me again who it was that we picked over Ed Reed....so I can really get a healthy case of heartburn going. We screwed the pooch on that one. Doug That would be Willie Green. Reed was taken maybe 5 or 6 slots later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnier Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 That would be Willie Green. Reed was taken maybe 5 or 6 slots later. Ugggghhh! DWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 What makes Taylor Mays more than a banger...........................because the two guys you mentioned Reed and Polamalu are way more than hitters............they are playmakers superb..... ...is Taylor Mays a playmaker or just another banger????????? This team is devoid of offensive playmaking talent we need to look their first especially at RB.......if you cannot score you cannot win........finding a safety right now is the least of this teams problems.........as we have no offensive playmakers and a front seven MIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 You think you could get that pic in your sig large enough to take up the whole screen?? Yep...we blew that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 That would be Willie Green. Reed was taken maybe 5 or 6 slots later. Good God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 as we have no offensive playmakers and a front seven MIA Winslow, Edwards, and Harrision are playmakers (I know you will disagree on Winslow, so save it). CLE needs another good young RB for sure. They could use help on the DLine and LB corps as well. We agree on that. Though a saftey that can make a regular impact against the run, like a Mays is not exactly a bad think for CLE. I also factor that Jones may leave (he is a FA), so that leaves a hole at one saftey spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNSofSTEEL08 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Dont be tricked by Harrison... he is on the field on 3rd downs... against Nickle and Dime Defenses. And he is fine doing that. He is NO Every down back..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Perhaps not, FREAK, but he can certainly be a bigger part of a RBBC than two touches per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Winslow, Edwards, and Harrision are playmakers (I know you will disagree on Winslow, so save it). CLE needs another good young RB for sure. They could use help on the DLine and LB corps as well. We agree on that. Though a saftey that can make a regular impact against the run, like a Mays is not exactly a bad think for CLE. I also factor that Jones may leave (he is a FA), so that leaves a hole at one saftey spot. Excuse me Winslow is slow and cannot block and has bum knees...........and catches dink passes which part of that is a playmaker...............Edwards has dropsy is he going get over it anytime soon which part of that is a playmaker..........and does Harrsion have a career total of 200 yards rushing which part of that is a playmaker after two years or where our coaches just really stupid and missed his great playmaking ability..............everything you said is a stretch........all three of those guys are ordinary as it stands today I think a true cover corner or free safety that is a ballhawk who has great instincts is much greater than a banger in helping a secondary.............is Mays either of those if so I would consider him with a second round pick............right now I strongly suggest we take the best skill player available unless they are all unimpressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 is Mays either of those if so I would consider him with a second round pick Again, that isn't how the NFL works. If you want to have Mays, you have to use a top ten pick on him, because that's the grade he'll get if he declares. If not, you don't get him. Simple. Unless I guess if you go mafia style like you plan on doing with Bill Polian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Dont be tricked by Harrison... he is on the field on 3rd downs... against Nickle and Dime Defenses. And he is fine doing that. He is NO Every down back..... Except all his big plays have not come in that position. But rather when getting carries on 1st and 2nd down. Hell, he's bigger than Parker, and rushed for more yards in college than Reggie Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnier Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 You think you could get that pic in your sig large enough to take up the whole screen?? Yep...we blew that deal. I tried shrinking her with the Photobucket software, but she keeps showing up huge. I guess Little Betty wants to be noticed. Pretty isn't she? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I can remember arguing with Rich about Safeties a few years back. Him stating that they are the least important to a team and using one of his "dime a dozen" phrases. I want an "ERASER" such as the two mentioned as well as Bob Sanders (How did Tressel miss on him out of erie PA?). A guy that can "erase" mistakes, especially from these posers we have at LB. I love the Safety position, we haven't had one since our re-birth. Please, don't insult the position mentioning Sean Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 People need to stop worrying about offense. We dont NEED a RB. Our defense needs all the help it can get right now. Just remember, defense not only stops the other team but it can score just as well with the right pieces. Offense wins games, Defense wins championships. Just look at 2007. WRONG OFFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS AND DEFENSE KEEPS YOU IN GAMES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Offense puts fans in the seats, defense wins championships. Ask Cowher, BB, or any other great coach. Or, just look at SB history. No one is saying you can win with total crap on O, but having a D that requires you to only score 17 points to win a game gives you trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I can remember arguing with Rich about Safeties a few years back. Him stating that they are the least important to a team and using one of his "dime a dozen" phrases. I want an "ERASER" such as the two mentioned as well as Bob Sanders (How did Tressel miss on him out of erie PA?). A guy that can "erase" mistakes, especially from these posers we have at LB. I love the Safety position, we haven't had one since our re-birth. Please, don't insult the position mentioning Sean Jones. What you stated about my position is a half truth................my position on Stong Safety is it is the easiest position to fill on a defensive......"thus dime a dozen" same as offensive linemen............ However a true "free Safety" ballhawk is a precious commodity.................and highly valuable..............just to keep the record straight on my positon............and yes indeed a strong safety who is true banger is a real asset.................but a free safety ballhawk and banger is which is an uncommon set is more than precious.,..........OK????????? BTW, Ed Reed is a free safety and even though the Steelers list Polamalu as the SS he is more a free safety than a SS and Ryan Clark the FS(who is also a hitter) are really interchangeable with Polamalu actually being more the FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hell, if I look at the NE teams that won SBs, I could say RBs and WRs are dime a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 What makes Taylor Mays more than a banger...........................because the two guys you mentioned Reed and Polamalu are way more than hitters............they are playmakers superb..... ...is Taylor Mays a playmaker or just another banger????????? This team is devoid of offensive playmaking talent we need to look their first especially at RB.......if you cannot score you cannot win........finding a safety right now is the least of this teams problems.........as we have no offensive playmakers and a front seven MIA Rich, I didn't post this to argue with you. Right now, you're on a mission to argue that anything we do or consider is an error so there's no point. If you saw Mays vrs Penn State - you have your answer. If not, I don't want to play this game. We have TONS of needs but they always say in round 1 you take the best player available over need. Don't shoot the mailman. Countless GOOD RBs came after round 1 like Steve Slaton, Ryan Powell, Maurice Jones-Drew, Frank Gore, Brian Westbrook, Michael Turner, Sammy Morris, Le'Ron McClain, Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward just off the top of my head. Somebody like Wilie Parker wasn't even drafted. WRs like Marques Colston, Jerricho Cotchery, and Wes Welker were all day 2 draftees. Davone Bess was an ubdrafted free agent. NE drafts TEs in the first round like Ben Watson and Daniel Graham si I'm sure you've stopped calling that stupid but I remember Bill Belichick wanting Kyle Brady for us and knee jerking for Craig Powell when he lost his mind in panic over the Jets stealing his thunder. KW has been a good player based on what he has been through phsyically. I wouldn't be opposed to trying to trade him because people around the league see his perseverence, work ethic and recent Pro Bowl resume enough to see value in adding him. As I've said, I think you're an intelligent person BUT when you're venting your frustration about this franchise - you're gonna be negative and arguementative no matter what the subject matter is. We have SEVERAL needs but as I saw today a playmaker like Ed Reed can divert everyone's attention off the reality that Flacco only went 9 of 23 passing. I haven't seen too many 235 pound Freaks running 4.2s but Mays lodged the football loose on 2 different collisions so I saw what I needed to in the BIG Game. When you make those Big plays in the Big game - you get cred for having serious game. If it was BB drafting a Safety - you'd change criteria like you do with the TE thing and call it the perfect move. And why? He's not employed by Lerner right? Come on - take off the battle armour if you want a sensible discussion. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I want an "ERASER" such as the two mentioned as well as Bob Sanders (How did Tressel miss on him out of erie PA?). Simple. That amazing talent evaluator Kirk Ferentz found him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Great post Tom!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 with the 5th pick we're gunna be sitting pretty. The four other teams ahead of us are going for offense (QB, LT, QB, and LT) We're obviously going to draft defense, so the real question is, who is the best defensive player that will make an impact? Our defense is weak, so Aaron Curry, James Lauranitis, Rey Maulalgalala (cant spell the last name), malcolm jenkins and Taylor Mays are in the talks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteelers Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I tried shrinking her with the Photobucket software, but she keeps showing up huge. I guess Little Betty wants to be noticed. Pretty isn't she? Doug HERE YOU GO.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Great post Tom!!!!!!! Thanks Masters! I love our choices at #5 overall this year. I think we'll get a playmaker that makes a difference and we'll get some people back healthy to lessen the list of need to an extent. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Thanks Masters! I love our choices at #5 overall this year. I think we'll get a playmaker that makes a difference and we'll get some people back healthy to lessen the list of need to an extent. - Tom F. I do too. I believe fully that CLE is much better than their record showed, and the players are better than they performed. The record bouncing in CLE over the last 3 years screams to me of bad coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Rich, I didn't post this to argue with you. Right now, you're on a mission to argue that anything we do or consider is an error so there's no point. If you saw Mays vrs Penn State - you have your answer. If not, I don't want to play this game. We have TONS of needs but they always say in round 1 you take the best player available over need. Don't shoot the mailman. Countless GOOD RBs came after round 1 like Steve Slaton, Ryan Powell, Maurice Jones-Drew, Frank Gore, Brian Westbrook, Michael Turner, Sammy Morris, Le'Ron McClain, Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward just off the top of my head. Somebody like Wilie Parker wasn't even drafted. WRs like Marques Colston, Jerricho Cotchery, and Wes Welker were all day 2 draftees. Davone Bess was an ubdrafted free agent. NE drafts TEs in the first round like Ben Watson and Daniel Graham si I'm sure you've stopped calling that stupid but I remember Bill Belichick wanting Kyle Brady for us and knee jerking for Craig Powell when he lost his mind in panic over the Jets stealing his thunder. KW has been a good player based on what he has been through phsyically. I wouldn't be opposed to trying to trade him because people around the league see his perseverence, work ethic and recent Pro Bowl resume enough to see value in adding him. As I've said, I think you're an intelligent person BUT when you're venting your frustration about this franchise - you're gonna be negative and arguementative no matter what the subject matter is. We have SEVERAL needs but as I saw today a playmaker like Ed Reed can divert everyone's attention off the reality that Flacco only went 9 of 23 passing. I haven't seen too many 235 pound Freaks running 4.2s but Mays lodged the football loose on 2 different collisions so I saw what I needed to in the BIG Game. When you make those Big plays in the Big game - you get cred for having serious game. If it was BB drafting a Safety - you'd change criteria like you do with the TE thing and call it the perfect move. And why? He's not employed by Lerner right? Come on - take off the battle armour if you want a sensible discussion. - Tom F. Geez Tom, you need to take a chill pill. IF you read my response to you I asked a question as to what makes Mays more than a banger...........that I already KNEW......I saw his cheapshot helmet to helmet hit that would have cost fifteen in the NFL...........and yes I know he is a banger,...........my position is clear........if I am going to use the first round fourth or fifth pick on a safety he better the complete package................and that means having massive instincts and ball hawking skills not just the ability to hit somebody hard........ So after your insulting post to me I did simple preliminary research into the question I asked you that you failed to answer BEST I CAN TELL Mays has 4 INTS in his three years at USC and none this year............thus from my preliminary research I am not going to use such a high pick on a player who is not a game changer.........like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu ARE Further you seem to discount the value of RB's..........Miami has two high no 1 picks on their roster.,,,,,,,,,,Indy has a no 1 pick as their RB,,,,,,,,as does SD in Tomlinson,,,,,,,,,and Tenn has a one and two pick as a tandem.....Minny has a premier one stud pick we got a tackle......The Steelers have a no 1 pick RB........and the Panthers have TWO no 1 picks in the backfield and Baltimore has a one pick as well.........I am not sure where Westbrook got drafted you can fill that in........and yes indeed the Giants have zero one picks on their roster.......and you can fill in blanks about Atlanta.......but yes Arizona feature back is another one pick..........pretty impressive those one picks on playoff teams seems to me playoff teams value RB's higher than Safeties unless you can provide similar data on safeties being one picks of teams So my point is not about ARGUING with you it is about debating the merits of whom to use that high pick on which we have successfully blown now about six times on the last several years on players who are not playmakers........I find it amsuing board members insulting me about my views only to have them validated year after year........so let's debate open minded maybe you and others can gain insight instead of being ruffled by good data and opinions it is about numbers and stats in the end and W's and L's..........my track record speaks for itself I am open to Mays..........but a safety with four int's in three years is not my idea of a fourth pick in the whole draft Our offense is devoid of talent...............and oh yeah you brought up NE using a first on TE's those picks were 31 and 32 respectively.......not number 6 which we did BIG DIFFERNCE....... anyway we can discuss this and debate whom to draft or you can just get puffed up because my initial reaction is to challenge selecting Mays with that one pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 However a true "free Safety" ballhawk is a precious commodity.................and highly valuable..............just to keep the record straight on my positon............ Wow, everyone just loves him now. In 2002 Camp Ed Reed was a very lonely place. I was told we couldn't afford to use that pick on "just a safety". The big debate on the board was William Green vs. T.J Duckett. We had to have a "playmaker". Calfox wanted Ashley Lelie. Skippy probably wanted to trade down. Rich wanted Patrick Ramsey or something. Butch Davis, who recruited Ed Reed and Clinton Portis to the U ... passed them up for William Green and Andre Davis. Yep. Butch Davis passed on both Ed Reed and Clinton Portis. They have had standing reservations in Honolulu while we have had standing reservations at the bottom of the AFC North. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Further you seem to discount the value of RB's..........Miami has two high no 1 picks on their roster.,,,,,,,,,,Indy has a no 1 pick as their RB,,,,,,,,as does SD in Tomlinson,,,,,,,,,and Tenn has a one and two pick as a tandem.....Minny has a premier one stud pick we got a tackle......The Steelers have a no 1 pick RB........and the Panthers have TWO no 1 picks in the backfield and Baltimore has a one pick as well.........I am not sure where Westbrook got drafted you can fill that in........and yes indeed the Giants have zero one picks on their roster.......and you can fill in blanks about Atlanta.......but yes Arizona feature back is another one pick..........pretty impressive those one picks on playoff teams Miami - Brown is very nice, Williams hasn't really amounted to much outside of the yoga studio. Indy - Addai hasn't proven able to carry the load. SD - Won last night on the legs of a 4th round pick, not Tomlinson. Tenn - No arguments here. Minny - see Tenn Steelers - Their #1 pick hasn't done anything. They rode a UDFA to success. Panthers - see Tenn. Balt - Someone else's #1 who is #3 on their depth chart. Phil - Wesbrook was a 3rd round pick. Giants - all late picks. Atlanta - Turner was a 5th rounder. Arizona - someone else's first round pick, but Edge was great in Indy, so no arguments (even though he is shot now). As you can see, it's a crapshoot when drafting RB's. I already crunched the numbers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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