Can a new coach/staff turn Wimbley around

[BigBrownsFan]

My definition of "moves" is much more closely related to technique. I assume that you (Rich) define moves as athletic ability, which of course you can't be completely taught, although you can be improved.

Exactly what I said as well...

 

But hey, you cannot revive the brainless.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I'm a chicken guy all the way! No way an egg just appeared out of nowhere. There is no way you can teach chickens moves, I tried for 6 months to teach one the chicken dance, thinking it would be about the easiest for it, but nope, wasted effort.

 

I'm confused.................then why do they call it the chicken dance. Maybe you had a nonathletic chicken?

 

LOL...................................

[ballpeen]

Judging by your "Albert" signature graphic, I'm wondering if this opinion is just a Gator hating on a former FSU player? It's this 3-4 scheme the Browns use. Wimbley was a DE in a 4-3 at FSU. I think some players just do better if they're on the D-line in that 3-point stance. It's more comfortable for them to fight that opposing OT at the snap of the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable sitting back and having to react to the play as a linebacker should. He's a pure pass rusher. If the next coach also uses the 3-4 (i.e. Mangini), trading Wimbley to a 4-3 team would be the best option IMO.

 

 

 

 

Naa....once people leave that place, they are cleansed..

 

If teaching people was really the answer, the league is full of big, explosive, fast players. All teams would have great pass rushers if teaching was the absolute..

 

Coaching only goes so far. After that, it is what it is....some have it, some don't......he doesn't.

 

[Guest mz.]

If teaching people was really the answer, the league is full of big, explosive, fast players. All teams would have great pass rushers if teaching was the absolute..

 

Coaching only goes so far. After that, it is what it is....some have it, some don't......he doesn't.

 

You don't find it possible that an extremely athletic yet technically raw guy can suffer due to a complete lack of teaching/coaching?

 

[rich4eagle]

My definition of "moves" is much more closely related to technique. I assume that you (Rich) define moves as athletic ability, which of course you can't be completely taught, although you can be improved.

 

Excellent Thomas and refreshing to hear intelligence........Bingo you can teach a plow horse better technique and you can teach a race horse better technique............but MOVES are inherent and technique is refinement of moves...the rest of this post is not pointed at you in any regard because you actually made a statement with forethought....

 

I am glad we have five geniuses throwing shit on the wall who jack about anything that pisses on Rich

 

and the LIAR Masters bringing up my view on Lawson which never existed.....that is a gem since I never uttered a single word about Manny Lawson........ever anywhere Masters you lying is now becoming pathological rivaling yur inability to do math and lying about that as well

 

This is too funny......................we can teach the technique of everyone throwing throwing 70 yard lasers.........as stupid as that analogy.....or not so stupid ..........if you are stupid enough to call the analogy stupid .......and not be able to define why you cannot technique or move one to such laser beam feats.......disparity stupid eh....mz the pussy has an agenda empty as it is(discredit Rich).........and bigbrowns is a fool and that is being kind who has sent his last ten plus messages thinking of how to piss on richl........and Masters has gone so much into lying he cannot distinguish the truth and cannot add and anolddawg is in denial as is masters and JBDF is a piece of work ripping off PA and spewing his hate messages now on another board......

 

and the world keeps moving forward and not a single post since my last has any added value..........MOVES are instinctual and cannot be taught.........only refined..........but I leave you all with religion "In Sewage you Trust"..........

 

and it is about me eh boyz .........thanks again..........the Browns are not relevant now RICH is.............hooray........for you fools this is now the Rich board.......for those who can think it is about making the Browns a winner

 

I do appreciate you all chomping at bit dumb as plowhorses waiting to stomp all over whatever Rich says next.............the last barrage is exemplary of mass asstitude gone infantile........carry on children

[ballpeen]

I don't buy there was a complete lack of coaching.

 

Sorry mz the pussy....our guys coached like everybody else. Don't make it sound like there wasn't any coaching.

 

If you put it on some sort of scale, it wasn't as if our coaches taught at 30% of what everybody else did or does.

 

One of the big things I heard was McGinnist was his mentor....and he could rush the passer when he was younger....he didn't just ignore the guy.

 

I guess i could go see who the LB coach was, and who the DL coach was and post up their resumes....I am sure they look as good as anybody elses.

 

Lack of information isn't Wimps problem.

[Guest mz.]

I don't buy there was a complete lack of coaching.

 

And I don't believe he's a waste of space.

 

So we'll agree to disagree here, I guess. This upcoming season under a new regime will be huge for him. IMO we'll be in much better position to come to a conclusion then.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

And I don't believe he's a waste of space.

 

So we'll agree to disagree here, I guess. This upcoming season under a new regime will be huge for him. IMO we'll be in much better position to come to a conclusion then.

 

Glad to see old mz the pussy is high on the "Fag Meter", ROFLMAO!

[ballpeen]

This is pretty cool everything I pointed out about Wimbley in his first year is now being discussed here after I was crucified for saying his limitations back then.

 

Turn about is fair play and do appreciate all the recognition for seeing his issues first.

 

And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL

 

Better yet a stud OL tackle since you need no moves to play that position

 

 

 

I don't know what was said or not as I wasn't around then, but I have been on Wimp for a long time.

 

The guy doesn't have the desire.

 

Teaching at this level is over rated.....you don't all of a sudden teach guys moves, or how to catch at this point. That is stuff you learn when you are 11 years old.

 

All of these guys have had 2-3 years of pop warner coaching, 2 years of middle school coaching, 4 years of HS coaching, 3-4 years of college coaching. All as better prospect while growing up went to a camp or 12 growing up. Now they have NFL coaching.

 

To tell me a guy hasn't been taught is not only unbelievable, it is absurd.

[rich4eagle]

Thanks Ballpeen, you get itand you discuss the issues and the game make your intelligent position well stated as do I .......and sometimes we agree to disagree........some folks agenda is to attack me........for getting it.........

 

 

cool eh..........

 

Wimbley is one dimensional since day one it was pointed out ...............and now it is being exposed...and stinking lousy me made that one dimensional feature clear long ago...and now he is neutralized because...all the players in the NFL has speed except the fat slobs "SEWAGE" brought in

[Guest Ghoolie]

Looking at the Browns roster, I believe their most pressing need is on defense and a pass rusher is right at the top. Wimbley came to this team advertised as a pass rusher and had a great rookie season. In that first season he played almost exclusively with his hand down and rushed the passer on almost every play that he was in there. Since then, they have tried to make him a linebacker and they havetried to get him to use other moves when he rushers.

 

My question is did he stop trying to get better? Or has the teaching and schemes rendered him ineffective. I hear coaches say that he is a better player this year. Now, is that just company spin or is it that they can't get through to him.

 

So, can a new coaching staff turn this guy around. Many players who were called speed rushers were effective being speed rushers for many years. Did trying to change him ruin him?

 

I am sure intrigued with having someone else see if they can turn the lights on for this guy. He surely hasn't just forgot how to play football.

 

What's your take? Can this guy get it back together? Can a new cosch or new scheme make him an impact player?

 

I think you have a retrospective view on what an NFL coach or coordinator does.

 

You have to really think about this, Wembly (sp) has been playing football for many, many years now. In fact do you realize that he has more years of football behind him than he does in front of him?

The point here is this, by the time a man is grown and into his twenties there is not much change that is going to be affected in him. Sometimes a guy might pick up a fine point here or there that will help

his performance, but at this stage of life, with years of weights, drills, classrooms, game experience, films, and coaching, a player is not going to

display much of a dramatic change. Wembly (sp) is what he is. In my eyes he is an average player who is playing below his draft position.

 

The only thing that can make this guy a better player is the fire within himself. Now, can teh right coach bring THAT out? I believe real leaders do that exact thing. Cowher didn't make the HOF path

because he was a football mastermind. He made it because he was a leader of men.

 

That is what is missing in Cleveland.

 

A man will perform to the level of his heart. Our players have no heart. They don't believe in the Browns. Micromanaging them with mechanics and other bullshit simply exacerbates the situation.

 

We need a coach who players will take a bullet for.

 

 

 

[ballpeen]

I just call it like I see it, never making me the most popular member of any board I frequent.

 

It's the way I have conducted my professional and personal life for a long time.

[Thaak]

Excellent Thomas and refreshing to hear intelligence........Bingo you can teach a plow horse better technique and you can teach a race horse better technique............but MOVES are inherent and technique is refinement of moves...the rest of this post is not pointed at you in any regard because you actually made a statement with forethought....

 

I am glad we have five geniuses throwing shit on the wall who jack about anything that pisses on Rich

 

and the LIAR Masters bringing up my view on Lawson which never existed.....that is a gem since I never uttered a single word about Manny Lawson........ever anywhere Masters you lying is now becoming pathological rivaling yur inability to do math and lying about that as well

 

This is too funny......................we can teach the technique of everyone throwing throwing 70 yard lasers.........as stupid as that analogy.....or not so stupid ..........if you are stupid enough to call the analogy stupid .......and not be able to define why you cannot technique or move one to such laser beam feats.......disparity stupid eh....mz the pussy has an agenda empty as it is(discredit Rich).........and bigbrowns is a fool and that is being kind who has sent his last ten plus messages thinking of how to piss on richl........and Masters has gone so much into lying he cannot distinguish the truth and cannot add and anolddawg is in denial as is masters and JBDF is a piece of work ripping off PA and spewing his hate messages now on another board......

 

and the world keeps moving forward and not a single post since my last has any added value..........MOVES are instinctual and cannot be taught.........only refined..........but I leave you all with religion "In Sewage you Trust"..........

 

and it is about me eh boyz .........thanks again..........the Browns are not relevant now RICH is.............hooray........for you fools this is now the Rich board.......for those who can think it is about making the Browns a winner

 

I do appreciate you all chomping at bit dumb as plowhorses waiting to stomp all over whatever Rich says next.............the last barrage is exemplary of mass asst

itude gone infantile........carry on children

 

ok, now that we know Rich's definition of "moves" defies the dictionary, we can all move on right?

 

To me, and I think everyone else who has a vocabulary higher than 3rd grade, a "move" is something you do, either aggressively or in reaction to someone elses' move. A move, IS a technique. A singular or combination of actions one would take with a desired result. If I move my pawn in chess, I consider what the potential results of that move might be. Nevertheless, everyone can be taught how to move a chess piece.

 

I can be taught how to do a swim move. I'd probably be crap at executing that move, but it could be taught to me.

 

Wimbley, by what I've seen, has one "move" and it doesn't appear as anyone has been able to teach him more (or maybe they never gave him the circumstance to actually execute the new "moves" appropriately.

 

I certainly think Wimbley is athletic enough to do a couple different types of "moves" should the situation demand. I don't know if he's intelligent enough to execute the new "moves" at the appropriate times, however some say he's been semi-effective as a drop-back linebacker.

 

So now that we all know that Rich is saying bad when he means good, we know he actually is referring to athletic talent when he uses the word "moves."

 

I swear, sometimes its like talking to someone from a different country with a limited facility for the English language when talking to Rich.

[Legacy Fan]

Wimbley found success in Buffalo (or Denver- I can't remember when his pick was) dropping back in coverage. I had previously thought his coverage skills to be a bit weak, but he appeared to drop back and shut off passing lanes very effectively, and made a hell of a play to get that pick.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

And I don't believe he's a waste of space.

 

So we'll agree to disagree here, I guess. This upcoming season under a new regime will be huge for him. IMO we'll be in much better position to come to a conclusion then.

 

You're right, we will see this year. Actually, I think it is more about scheme and opportunities. I certainly think the teaching of technique and discipline to complete assignments was lacking with RAC and his staff. I also think there was too many 3 man rushes, no stunts, no imagination in getting a pass rush. I watch Balt and see 2 LBs and a safety line on one side and a LB and safety lined on the other and the teams don't know where the blitz is coming form. I see Suggs, Lewis and scott all standing over a tackle and he doesn't know who is rushing and who is dropping into coverage. They don't just line up in a base defense. I watch Pitts and Dallas doing the same things with their rush.

 

When you put Wimbley over a LT and the other OLB is standing back into coverage, I think I could figure out where the rush was coming from. Can you count how many time the Browns overloaded one side or the other. Did you ever see Wimbley, McGinest and Jones all standing over the RT. The other team would call time out.

 

I do believe their is a lack of technique being taught, but also think their vanilla scheme was a cause of a lack of pass rush and hence wimbley's low sack total and pressures. The Vanilla could be cause they didn't trust leaving their corners in man coverage, but dropping Wimbley into coverage is wasteing him. And, they did it a lot.

 

So, I believe a new staff that teaches and mandates you execute the plays and also runs a more attacking scheme would do wonders for Wimbley.

 

It's not like he never had the ability to rush the passer. He didn't forget how to play from year one to year 3.

 

 

[Sony Reed]

Well, there is good coaching and bad coaching, meaning what CLE's staff would have been giving him (I lean to the later). Where else outside the NFL? I doubt he was taught a lot of moves a LB as a DE in college, where he could get away with natural ability.

 

I agree not a lot of guys develop into great pass rushers. But then again, guys don't get 11 sacks as a rookie by accident. Then again, look at James Harrison for PIT. Took him 4-5 years to develop. Though he is inside and not outside.

 

I am not holding my breath for it to happen, or even saying it will happen. But I would like to see what happens with a coaching staff change before I pass final judgement.

 

He has been solid in coverage this past year, and spent more time there than trying to get to the QB. His run stopping has not improved much though.

 

I think he has a long way to go in a lot of posters/fans eyes. I am just not ready to write him off just yet.

 

James Harrison plays right outside linebacker, Pitts inside backers are James Farrior and Larry Foote, when they go nickle Timmons replaces Foote.

 

Wimbley has one move and the league has seen enough tape on him to figure him out

 

Best thing the Browns could do is package Wimbley with Anderson or Winslow and get some extra picks

 

[Guest Masters]

James Harrison plays right outside linebacker, Pitts inside backers are James Farrior and Larry Foote, when they go nickle Timmons replaces Foote.

 

James Harrison plays RILB, not outside. Woodley and Foote are on the outside. Basically Harrison is their Ray Lewis, back when BALT used to rush Lewis more.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/pit/dept...dvOgqjnDxqT2bYF

[DTBH]

If a coach can instill heart, will, determination, and fire...then yes, a coach can turn Wimbley around.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

If a coach can instill heart, will, determination, and fire...then yes, a coach can turn Wimbley around.

 

What did this guy ever do to you............................... for you to say shit like that, which is BS.

 

He never displayed a lack of heart, will or determination. His teammates laud him for his great work habits and intensity even in practice. He has displayed great character. Guys like McGinest say the kid has what it takes to be a top notch NFL player. I interviewed him for OBR a year ago in the off season and I talked to some teammates about him.

 

There may be a question about his productivity or rush skills but you shouldn't print crap that you don't have a clue about.

 

If you don't like him as a football player, then that's fine, but dissing him when you don't have a clue about his work habits is crap.

 

Not cool man.

 

 

 

 

 

[DTBH]

I don't care about his work habits in the gym. He has absolutely no fight, and no desire on the field. A guy with his physical ability should not be a finesse player, and it's the reason he's completely fallen off.

 

The FIELD DAY a motivator like Cowher would have with him. He'd be a completely different player. Also known as, instilling heart, will, determination, and fire. Has Wimbley EVER shown even an OUNCE of intensity on the field? No. He doesn't belong playing physical AFC North defense.

[JC]

There are two main roles on OLB has: rush the QB and keep contain. Obviously, he didn't get to the QB that much this year. However, many times I saw him blow contain. If he can't do either, then there is definitely a problem. I don't think we have the luxury of giving up on him this soon. Hopefully he can come around with a better scheme, but I am starting to think that some of his shortcomings that have come to light lately are going to hurt us. I hope I am wrong about this.

 

[PlaygroundLegend]

Ive got an Idea, lets do something revoltionary, lets run a 2-6 defense

 

_____________FS__________SS__________

________________ILB___ILB______________

CB__________OLB DE NT DE OLB_________CB

 

 

 

That way Wimbley starts every play with his hand down and drops back into coverage when neccessary, all he would need to do is improve his backpeddal

[Guest Ghoolie]

What did this guy ever do to you............................... for you to say shit like that, which is BS.

 

He never displayed a lack of heart, will or determination. His teammates laud him for his great work habits and intensity even in practice. He has displayed great character. Guys like McGinest say the kid has what it takes to be a top notch NFL player. I interviewed him for OBR a year ago in the off season and I talked to some teammates about him.

 

There may be a question about his productivity or rush skills but you shouldn't print crap that you don't have a clue about.

 

If you don't like him as a football player, then that's fine, but dissing him when you don't have a clue about his work habits is crap.

 

Not cool man.

 

What crawled up your ass and died?

 

Wimbley's problem has to do with the emotional side of his game, not the technical side. He isn't motivated, driven or focused.

 

Hey Ytown...... aren't you the same goofball who did "research" with guys who went to school with me when I was in 9th grade in order to convince yourself that I wasn't a badass, which unfortunately for you, I am?

 

You also told us that you personally knew Coach Angelo, of Chaney High School Heritage, assistant coach at Chicago, who PROMISED that romeo Crennel was a focused, knowledgable, competent coach who would really whip the Browns into shape?

 

ROTFLMAO!

 

Hey peeps, this guy had some idiots who graduated Ursuline HS who didn't know crap about me, telling him I was BOTH a piano player AND that I was a geek playing in the Ursuline High School Marching Band. Now you see what a Badass Ghoolie really is? I am THE ONLY sumbitch EVER to play in a marching band with an upright piano strapped to my chest.

 

ROTFLMAO @ this YTowns aka Oldawg of Nav's board. Dude, if ANYONE, and I do mean ANYONE knows less about football and life than you do, I swear to all things important that I have never encountered them. You are in a class by yourself and your buddy Angelo? Well maybe while he inhaled too much powder while folding the players jockstraps.

 

 

 

 

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

What crawled up your ass and died?

 

Wimbley's problem has to do with the emotional side of his game, not the technical side. He isn't motivated, driven or focused.

 

Hey Ytown...... aren't you the same goofball who did "research" with guys who went to school with me when I was in 9th grade in order to convince yourself that I wasn't a badass, which unfortunately for you, I am?

 

You also told us that you personally knew Coach Angelo, of Chaney High School Heritage, assistant coach at Chicago, who PROMISED that romeo Crennel was a focused, knowledgable, competent coach who would really whip the Browns into shape?

 

ROTFLMAO!

 

Hey peeps, this guy had some idiots who graduated Ursuline HS who didn't know crap about me, telling him I was BOTH a piano player AND that I was a geek playing in the Ursuline High School Marching Band. Now you see what a Badass Ghoolie really is? I am THE ONLY sumbitch EVER to play in a marching band with an upright piano strapped to my chest.

 

ROTFLMAO @ this YTowns aka Oldawg of Nav's board. Dude, if ANYONE, and I do mean ANYONE knows less about football and life than you do, I swear to all things important that I have never encountered them. You are in a class by yourself and your buddy Angelo? Well maybe while he inhaled too much powder while folding the players jockstraps.

 

Don't flatter yourself tommy the band boy. Nobody really cares about your childhood or how big an asshole you were and have become. You aren't worth my time. LMFAO

 

[Sony Reed]

James Harrison plays right outside linebacker, Pitts inside backers are James Farrior and Larry Foote, when they go nickle Timmons replaces Foote.

 

Wimbley has one move and the league has seen enough tape on him to figure him out

 

Best thing the Browns could do is package Wimbley with Anderson or Winslow and get some extra picks

 

Watch the games, and you will see that Larry Foote is the inside LB or just ask a Steeler fan

 

Harrison plays right outside linebacker..................Genius

 

[Guest Masters]

What crawled up your ass and died?

 

Wimbley's problem has to do with the emotional side of his game, not the technical side. He isn't motivated, driven or focused.

 

Says the man who admittedly doesn't watch most of the game.

 

[titleist585]

James Harrison plays RILB, not outside. Woodley and Foote are on the outside. Basically Harrison is their Ray Lewis, back when BALT used to rush Lewis more.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/pit/dept...dvOgqjnDxqT2bYF

 

 

 

For whatever reason Yahoo Sports depth charts always mess up right outside and inside LB's with the 3-4 teams...they have Wimbley as an RILB and Jackson as a ROLB ...same with Dallas and Ware and most if not all 3-4 teams...look at all the 3-4 teams on there...I admit I was mistaken too after using Yahoo's charts...

[Guest Masters]

For whatever reason Yahoo Sports depth charts always mess up right outside and inside LB's with the 3-4 teams...they have Wimbley as an RILB and Jackson as a ROLB ...same with Dallas and Ware and most if not all 3-4 teams...look at all the 3-4 teams on there...I admit I was mistaken too after using Yahoo's charts...

 

Thanks for the tip about Yahoo on their depth charts for 3-4 teams.

 

I have seen Harrison all over the place like NE used to do with Teddy Bruschci (sp?) and Vrebal. I presumed that Yahoo had his natural starting position correct. Damn Yahoo!

 

 

[onefellswoop7]

We hardly ever used Wimbley as anything but a simple pass rusher. Our stupid system didn't allow us to try and move him around. One hand down outside rush....that was it. When did ok dropping into coverage so why not move him around more to confuse the offense. He has ability. We didn't even try to get more out of him. I'm not saying he can or will be turned into an awesome OLB but I'm not saying he won't either. We need a more sophisticated system. (like balt.)