Chicopee John Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Alex Marvez: Senior NFL Writer for FOXSports.com. He's covered the NFL for 14 seasons as a beat writer and is the president of the Pro Football Writers of America. Cleveland Browns fans dreamed of Bill Cowher and Scott Pioli throughout the Christmas holiday. Almost two weeks later, the coal arrived in their stockings with Wednesday's hiring of Eric Mangini as head coach. Sure, Mangini might be the lump that turns into a diamond. It can be argued that he wasn't given a fair shake with the New York Jets, being made a scapegoat after a late-season collapse when there was plenty of blame to spread around. Some fired head coaches given a second chance learn from the mistakes made during their first go-'round a la Bill Belichick (Mangini's mentor) and Tom Coughlin. Mangini also is a 3-4 specialist, which means the Browns won't have to overhaul their defensive talent to fit a 4-3 scheme. The list of negatives is more damning. During his three years in New York, Mangini was knocked in league circles for poor relationships with players and assistant coaches. He had no answers as the 2008 Jets dropped from 8-3 to 9-7 and out of the playoffs, despite controlling their own postseason destiny in the AFC East. At age 37, there are serious questions whether Mangini is ready — or ever will be — to become a bona fide head coaching success. But this issue goes beyond Mangini, his strengths and weaknesses. It's the thought of what could have been that will haunt Browns backers if their new head coach isn't a true Man-genius. There was one thing that kept hope alive for the Browns faithful during a horrific 2008 season: The excitement of what was to come. When it became clear that Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage wouldn't return, anticipation built toward the naming of Cleveland's next head coach and general manager. Cowher and Pioli topped the wish list. It would be unrealistic to expect the Browns to hire both men. The duo has no history working together and each would want final say on football decisions. But one out of two would have been just fine considering how much praise Cowher (Pittsburgh) and Pioli (New England) deserve for their respective teams having played in five of the past seven Super Bowls and AFC championship games. The Browns then whiffed as badly as an offense that didn't score a touchdown in its final six games. Browns owner Randy Lerner has said there was nothing he could have done to woo Cowher out of retirement. He tried and struck out. Fair enough. But how dogged was Lerner and how much money was Cowher offered? For now, that isn't so clear. We do know the fallback option was a no-brainer: Meet Pioli's price to become general manager and let him name the head coach. Even if he hired an unproven NFL commodity like Iowa's Kirk Ferentz, Pioli would be given a pass considering his track record in New England working hand-in-hand with Belichick. When the Pioli deal couldn't get done for whatever reasons — he's not going to work with Mangini after the Spygate ordeal — there were more intriguing options at head coach. Mike Shanahan, unexpectedly fired in Denver, would have worked wonders with a young quarterback like Brady Quinn. Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels probably could have done the same considering how well he groomed Matt Cassel. Defensive coordinators for three of the league's top units — Baltimore's Rex Ryan, Tennessee's Jim Schwartz and Steve Spagnuolo of the New York Giants — are ready for their big break. Even the hiring of an under-the-radar position coach wouldn't be heavily panned after the 2008 success of Baltimore's John Harbaugh and Miami's Tony Sparano. A retread like Mangini doesn't generate the same optimism. Neither will the expected hiring of George Kokinis as Cleveland's new general manager. Kokinis, whose history with Mangini dates back to when both were with the Browns organization in the early 1990s, will reportedly interview with Lerner on Monday to finalize the deal. Kokinis has excelled in his role as a personnel director in Baltimore. So did Savage before his 2005 hiring by the Browns. He was ill-prepared to handle all of the general manager responsibilities beyond scouting. Yet that hasn't dissuaded Lerner from likely giving another newbie a chance. Maybe the Browns will get it right this time. Decisions should be made based on the best interest of the team, not on the whim of fans and media swayed by the track records of ballyhooed figures like Cowher and Pioli. There also are no guarantees Cowher and Pioli can be like Bill Parcells and have success with different franchises. Browns ownership, though, has done nothing to inspire confidence since the city rejoined the NFL in 1999. Cleveland has reached the postseason just once in that stretch. The biggest reasons for such futility: botched coaching and front-office hires that resulted in poor on-field performances and personnel decisions. Winning just one playoff game will put Mangini ahead of predecessors Crennel, Butch Davis and Chris Palmer. But under the circumstances, the bar is already raised considerably higher. Mangini must now show he isn't another mistake by the lake from a franchise that has made far too many in the past decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Alex Marvez: Senior NFL Writer for FOXSports.com. He's covered the NFL for 14 seasons as a beat writer and is the president of the Pro Football Writers of America. Cleveland Browns fans dreamed of Bill Cowher and Scott Pioli throughout the Christmas holiday. Almost two weeks later, the coal arrived in their stockings with Wednesday's hiring of Eric Mangini as head coach. Sure, Mangini might be the lump that turns into a diamond. It can be argued that he wasn't given a fair shake with the New York Jets, being made a scapegoat after a late-season collapse when there was plenty of blame to spread around. Some fired head coaches given a second chance learn from the mistakes made during their first go-'round a la Bill Belichick (Mangini's mentor) and Tom Coughlin. Mangini also is a 3-4 specialist, which means the Browns won't have to overhaul their defensive talent to fit a 4-3 scheme. The list of negatives is more damning. During his three years in New York, Mangini was knocked in league circles for poor relationships with players and assistant coaches. He had no answers as the 2008 Jets dropped from 8-3 to 9-7 and out of the playoffs, despite controlling their own postseason destiny in the AFC East. At age 37, there are serious questions whether Mangini is ready — or ever will be — to become a bona fide head coaching success. But this issue goes beyond Mangini, his strengths and weaknesses. It's the thought of what could have been that will haunt Browns backers if their new head coach isn't a true Man-genius. There was one thing that kept hope alive for the Browns faithful during a horrific 2008 season: The excitement of what was to come. When it became clear that Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage wouldn't return, anticipation built toward the naming of Cleveland's next head coach and general manager. Cowher and Pioli topped the wish list. It would be unrealistic to expect the Browns to hire both men. The duo has no history working together and each would want final say on football decisions. But one out of two would have been just fine considering how much praise Cowher (Pittsburgh) and Pioli (New England) deserve for their respective teams having played in five of the past seven Super Bowls and AFC championship games. The Browns then whiffed as badly as an offense that didn't score a touchdown in its final six games. Browns owner Randy Lerner has said there was nothing he could have done to woo Cowher out of retirement. He tried and struck out. Fair enough. But how dogged was Lerner and how much money was Cowher offered? For now, that isn't so clear. We do know the fallback option was a no-brainer: Meet Pioli's price to become general manager and let him name the head coach. Even if he hired an unproven NFL commodity like Iowa's Kirk Ferentz, Pioli would be given a pass considering his track record in New England working hand-in-hand with Belichick. When the Pioli deal couldn't get done for whatever reasons — he's not going to work with Mangini after the Spygate ordeal — there were more intriguing options at head coach. Mike Shanahan, unexpectedly fired in Denver, would have worked wonders with a young quarterback like Brady Quinn. Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels probably could have done the same considering how well he groomed Matt Cassel. Defensive coordinators for three of the league's top units — Baltimore's Rex Ryan, Tennessee's Jim Schwartz and Steve Spagnuolo of the New York Giants — are ready for their big break. Even the hiring of an under-the-radar position coach wouldn't be heavily panned after the 2008 success of Baltimore's John Harbaugh and Miami's Tony Sparano. A retread like Mangini doesn't generate the same optimism. Neither will the expected hiring of George Kokinis as Cleveland's new general manager. Kokinis, whose history with Mangini dates back to when both were with the Browns organization in the early 1990s, will reportedly interview with Lerner on Monday to finalize the deal. Kokinis has excelled in his role as a personnel director in Baltimore. So did Savage before his 2005 hiring by the Browns. He was ill-prepared to handle all of the general manager responsibilities beyond scouting. Yet that hasn't dissuaded Lerner from likely giving another newbie a chance. Maybe the Browns will get it right this time. Decisions should be made based on the best interest of the team, not on the whim of fans and media swayed by the track records of ballyhooed figures like Cowher and Pioli. There also are no guarantees Cowher and Pioli can be like Bill Parcells and have success with different franchises. Browns ownership, though, has done nothing to inspire confidence since the city rejoined the NFL in 1999. Cleveland has reached the postseason just once in that stretch. The biggest reasons for such futility: botched coaching and front-office hires that resulted in poor on-field performances and personnel decisions. Winning just one playoff game will put Mangini ahead of predecessors Crennel, Butch Davis and Chris Palmer. But under the circumstances, the bar is already raised considerably higher. Mangini must now show he isn't another mistake by the lake from a franchise that has made far too many in the past decade Great Article, I agree 100% Seems to me that Lerner has not learned from his past mistakes with hiring Crennel before he hired a GM, now we look to get stuck with another guy who has never been a GM. I don't understand why Lerner wants the Browns to be the Patriots of Cleveland. Romeo Crennel........Failed as a head coach Charlie Weiss...........Has failed at Notre Dame has a head coach Eric Mangini..............Failed with the Jets When will people learn its Belichek thats the person responsible for the Patriots, has NE missed Crennel, Weiss or Mangini Mangini in 3 years with the Jets had a winning season in year one playing a last place schedule, sorta like the Browns last year, in year 2 with a tougher schedule Mangini went 4-12 like the Browns in 08, in his 3rd season Mangini's team CHOKED down the stretch losing games to the Seahawks and 49ers and at home to the Dolphins, for everyone who wants to put the blame on Farve, Farve was not playing defense when the Jets at home allowed a poor Bills team to score at will and could not stop the Seahawks or 49ers and could not stop a Dolphins offense whom the Ravens made there offense look like the Browns offense of 2008. For all the fans who kept repeating we want someone with fire on the sidelines you sure won't get that from Mancini Once again instead of letting a proven GM select the head coach Randy Lerner once again steps in and hires a guy who blows him away with a interview, I remember Lerner saying the same things about Romeo Crennel and we all found out how that turned out and a rookie GM in Savage we found out how that turned out. So we get no Cowher and no Pioli and we settle for seconds again. IMO history will repeat itself and in 3 years we will be looking for another head coach and GM Lerner fails this franchise once again by not letting qualified people hire the head coach. This team once again remains the Detroit Lions of the AFC This team has still not appeared in a Super Bowl I am so tired of hearing about our Championships in the 1950's and 1960's ........This team has done nothing since the days of Bernie Kosar and we still never reached the Big Game ......The Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 88fingerslewy Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think the media makes shit up and then uses its made up story as back up to a new story. It's all fluff. For starters, who ever said Cowher ever said he wanted the Browns job or MAYBE was a possibility....not Cowher, the media. All fluff Second, whoever said Piloi wanted huge bucks and complete power....not Piloi, the media. All fluff Before we talk about which big fish got away, we should see what was in the lake to begin with. Nobody here was in any of the meetings or interviews and neither was the media, so really; who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think the media makes shit up and then uses its made up story as back up to a new story. It's all fluff. For starters, who ever said Cowher ever said he wanted the Browns job or MAYBE was a possibility....not Cowher, the media. All fluff Second, whoever said Piloi wanted huge bucks and complete power....not Piloi, the media. All fluff Before we talk about which big fish got away, we should see what was in the lake to begin with. Nobody here was in any of the meetings or interviews and neither was the media, so really; who knows. There were other available people out there that really did not get a chance, seems like 4 years ago when Lerner was blown away with Romeo Crennel and he had to hire him, I guess at the time you liked that hire to, how long did it take you to realize Romeo was in over his head, did you ever think there was a reason after 30 years in the league no team offered Romeo a head coaching job? well we found out in Cleveland Mangini was given the players this year by the owner and GM they spent tons of money in free agents to get Mangini everything he needed to win and he still could not get the team to the playoffs. Hope I am wrong but in 3-4 years we will see a repeat of what happened with Crennel and Savage When you are hoping to get Cowher and Pioli or just one of the 2 and you get Eric Mangini its like wanting a Wi system and opening the box and finding a Atari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Intresting... I bet the same things were said about Belichick when he left Cleveland and went to the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Intresting... I bet the same things were said about Belichick when he left Cleveland and went to the Patriots. Tell me how many Belicheks are out there coaching Eric Mangini is not Belichek........Thats like saying Romeo Crennel was Paul Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damajuki Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think the media makes shit up and then uses its made up story as back up to a new story. It's all fluff. For starters, who ever said Cowher ever said he wanted the Browns job or MAYBE was a possibility....not Cowher, the media. All fluff Second, whoever said Piloi wanted huge bucks and complete power....not Piloi, the media. All fluff Before we talk about which big fish got away, we should see what was in the lake to begin with. Nobody here was in any of the meetings or interviews and neither was the media, so really; who knows. GREAT post, lewy. EXACTLY what I was thinking: the guys ripping the move are the same guys who were writing the Browns should get Cowher. Though Cowher told EVERYONE he was sitting out 2009 repeatedly. So after saying Cowher was available -- though he wasn't -- they now can say we whiffed by not getting him -- which we didn't. It fascinates me how crazy the opinion-machine has gotten and how totally off-base it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I would have loved a cowher or marty even shanahan but these guys are not coaching this year..pioli i got really cold feet with the very mention of ferentz if i were lerner i would have bolted too.. Listen guys..We dont have to have a big name to restore tuff as nails cleveland browns football and a solid structure we need experience in a coach and a fair gm that works with the coach.. I for one hated belichick when he was in cleveland..he turned out fine i suspect mangini is going to suprise some people over a 2-3 year period... He is at the right time in his career to explode.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes10_Ward_86 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Great Article, I agree 100% Seems to me that Lerner has not learned from his past mistakes with hiring Crennel before he hired a GM, now we look to get stuck with another guy who has never been a GM. I don't understand why Lerner wants the Browns to be the Patriots of Cleveland. Romeo Crennel........Failed as a head coach Charlie Weiss...........Has failed at Notre Dame has a head coach Eric Mangini..............Failed with the Jets When will people learn its Belichek thats the person responsible for the Patriots, has NE missed Crennel, Weiss or Mangini Mangini in 3 years with the Jets had a winning season in year one playing a last place schedule, sorta like the Browns last year, in year 2 with a tougher schedule Mangini went 4-12 like the Browns in 08, in his 3rd season Mangini's team CHOKED down the stretch losing games to the Seahawks and 49ers and at home to the Dolphins, for everyone who wants to put the blame on Farve, Farve was not playing defense when the Jets at home allowed a poor Bills team to score at will and could not stop the Seahawks or 49ers and could not stop a Dolphins offense whom the Ravens made there offense look like the Browns offense of 2008. For all the fans who kept repeating we want someone with fire on the sidelines you sure won't get that from Mancini Once again instead of letting a proven GM select the head coach Randy Lerner once again steps in and hires a guy who blows him away with a interview, I remember Lerner saying the same things about Romeo Crennel and we all found out how that turned out and a rookie GM in Savage we found out how that turned out. So we get no Cowher and no Pioli and we settle for seconds again. IMO history will repeat itself and in 3 years we will be looking for another head coach and GM Lerner fails this franchise once again by not letting qualified people hire the head coach. This team once again remains the Detroit Lions of the AFC This team has still not appeared in a Super Bowl I am so tired of hearing about our Championships in the 1950's and 1960's ........This team has done nothing since the days of Bernie Kosar and we still never reached the Big Game ......The Super Bowl I agree with everything you say and I was talking about the samethings you brought up with Mangini and how he and the Jets went from 8-3 and destroying the Titans at home and being one of the best teams in the AFC, to losing 4 out of his last 5 games which should have been 5 out of 5 had JP Losman not given the game away to the Jets in the Buffalo game. The fact that Mangini lost to bad teams with losing records and had numerous chances to clinch the division in the last month of the season and failed to do so every single time would be a major major concern for me if I was a Browns fan and Browns ownership if I took a long hard look at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW Ohio Brownie Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Intresting... I bet the same things were said about Belichick when he left Cleveland and went to the Patriots. BrownsKidd, You beat me to it. Belichick wasn't really a failure in Cleveland although the fans will tell you that. He was building the team into something special when the team announced in the '95 mid-season that they were leaving us. Then the bottom fell out of that season and Modell decided to go with Marchibroda when they made the move. (Statement disclaimer: As an 18-year old kid in '93, I cried when Belichick cut Bernie and I don't think I'll ever forgive him for that. That should tell you how I feel about Super Bill, but he did a fine job here in Cleveland.) How in the world can any Browns fan call Mangini a 'failure' in New York? Just because he's fired makes him a failure? Give me a break. He was a winner in two out of three seasons, something we haven't seen around here since '86-'89. Would you like me to give you a list of coaches in this league who have two winning seasons in the past three and still have their jobs? There are more than those that have been fired, I can tell you that. This guy may, I repeat MAY, be just what we need around here: A guy who understands the importance of accountability and only wants people around him who care about winning. That previous statement could probably describe 95% of Browns Nation. Keep in mind that the Jets were in shambles when he took over for Herm Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polamalu43 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Can I ask why you guys are against a coordinator that appears ready to take the reigns of an NFL roster that appears to have some talent on it??? You guys need to look at what the rest of the league is doing and give that a try. Eric Mangini sucks....bottom line. His teams sucked in the big games and had the number 2 seed in the AFC after week 11....then missed the playoffs all together! When the Steelers hired Mike Tomlin, noone outside of maybe Tampa and Minnesota know who this guy was. 2 years later he is a 2 time division champion and could be headed to his first AFC Championship game this season. He also probably has the most secure job in the NFL right now. You guys have to start to admit that your problems start with Lerner and then trickles down the organization. There is the difference between the Steelers and Browns.....the Rooneys know what they are doing and have known since the 70's...and the Browns are stuck with an owner who is clueless. Lastly, just because you have the 5th pick....remember what Mangenius did with Jets top pick last year in picking a workout warrior who sucks at football in Vernon Gholston. He left quality rookies who proved they were good at the NFL level on the board like Mayo from Tennessee and Clady from Boise. St. Enjoy the next 3 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Great Article, I agree 100% Seems to me that Lerner has not learned from his past mistakes with hiring Crennel before he hired a GM, now we look to get stuck with another guy who has never been a GM. I don't understand why Lerner wants the Browns to be the Patriots of Cleveland. Romeo Crennel........Failed as a head coach Charlie Weiss...........Has failed at Notre Dame has a head coach Eric Mangini..............Failed with the Jets When will people learn its Belichek thats the person responsible for the Patriots, has NE missed Crennel, Weiss or Mangini Mangini in 3 years with the Jets had a winning season in year one playing a last place schedule, sorta like the Browns last year, in year 2 with a tougher schedule Mangini went 4-12 like the Browns in 08, in his 3rd season Mangini's team CHOKED down the stretch losing games to the Seahawks and 49ers and at home to the Dolphins, for everyone who wants to put the blame on Farve, Farve was not playing defense when the Jets at home allowed a poor Bills team to score at will and could not stop the Seahawks or 49ers and could not stop a Dolphins offense whom the Ravens made there offense look like the Browns offense of 2008. For all the fans who kept repeating we want someone with fire on the sidelines you sure won't get that from Mancini Once again instead of letting a proven GM select the head coach Randy Lerner once again steps in and hires a guy who blows him away with a interview, I remember Lerner saying the same things about Romeo Crennel and we all found out how that turned out and a rookie GM in Savage we found out how that turned out. So we get no Cowher and no Pioli and we settle for seconds again. IMO history will repeat itself and in 3 years we will be looking for another head coach and GM Lerner fails this franchise once again by not letting qualified people hire the head coach. This team once again remains the Detroit Lions of the AFC This team has still not appeared in a Super Bowl I am so tired of hearing about our Championships in the 1950's and 1960's ........This team has done nothing since the days of Bernie Kosar and we still never reached the Big Game ......The Super Bowl Get over this "last place schedule" crap. The Jets had the same exact schedule as the Patriots, except for TWO teams, in each of those seasons. There are no more "last place" or "first place" schedules with the exception of which two odd teams are played by division opponents. So the guy basically had 2 winning seasons out of 3 with the Jets, which is already leaps and bounds ahead of any other coach the new Browns have had. Also, unlike the hirings of RAC and Savage, Lerner IS listening to his HC choice as to who he thinks he could work with in the GM position. A guy that one of the best, Ernie Accorsi, has said is ready to make the move to GM. So its not like Lerner is making his decisions blindly. Will this new FO/HC work out? That's left to be seen. But I will give it a chance to show what it can do before I go tearing it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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