Impact Of Cleveland Browns Stadium On Surrounding Neighborhood

[famous amos]

Hi everyone, I'm a visitor from a Buffalo Bills message board and I was curious about something you guys might be able to give a valid perspective on. I apologize if this is on the wrong forum.

 

Our owner is old and he might die soon and as a result, there's going be an ownership change. With that being said, our stadium's lease is up in 2013 and although the county and the team are working to renew it for another 20 years, it's not set in stone that a deal will get done.

 

Additionally, a local sports reporter started talking out of his rear end about possible ownership groups that would be interested in building a stadium in downtown Buffalo or perhaps closer to Canada in Niagara Falls, NY. That got me thinking about an oft debated topic of building a stadium on the waterfront in Buffalo or downtown.

 

The reason why I am here is because I always think about Cleveland and the Browns when ever this topic comes up. I was wondering what has been the effect of building your football stadium on the waterfront and in the city on the surrounding neighborhood in Cleveland? Did you guys expect to see an uptick in development after the stadium was built? Has the stadium made that part of the city more of a destination. I know its close to the Rock and Roll HOF. When i visited your city a few years ago, I went the R&R HOF, checked out the stadium, but I cant remember if there was anything else down there.

 

In Buffalo, we are starting to develop our inner and outer harbor but it's no where near what you guys have in Cleveland. What we like about Ralph Wilson Stadium is the tailgating. Since it's kind of out in the country, there's plenty of parking and it's fairly cheap to attend games. many fans are worried about PSL's, increased ticket prices and a reduction in tailgating accessibility.

[The Gipper]

As a general rule I am in favor of "Downtown" stadiums/arenas. I think they make the cities more vibrant, more of a destination. This has worked with CBS/The Jake/the areana.

I guess it is possible that there may be some kind of bump in prices. That comes with demand.

I suggest that if a stadium is built in downtown Buffalo that they will find plenty of places to do tailgaiting, just as is done in Cleveland. Our group meets right under one of the huge bridges that crosses the river....so even with our tailgating we get a spot with more "character" that you get in just a big sea of asphalt out in the country.

Bottom line: I think a downtown stadium would do a world of good for Buffalo and The Bills.

 

Next question: Who IS in line to take over/buy the Bills when the 90+ Ralph Wilson abandons the mortal coil? Does he not have children to take over ala the Lerners?

[Harry Buffalo]

As a general rule I am in favor of "Downtown" stadiums/arenas. I think they make the cities more vibrant, more of a destination. This has worked with CBS/The Jake/the areana.

I guess it is possible that there may be some kind of bump in prices. That comes with demand.

I suggest that if a stadium is built in downtown Buffalo that they will find plenty of places to do tailgaiting, just as is done in Cleveland. Our group meets right under one of the huge bridges that crosses the river....so even with our tailgating we get a spot with more "character" that you get in just a big sea of asphalt out in the country.

Bottom line: I think a downtown stadium would do a world of good for Buffalo and The Bills.

 

Next question: Who IS in line to take over/buy the Bills when the 90+ Ralph Wilson abandons the mortal coil? Does he not have children to take over ala the Lerners?

 

Same can be said for Cincinatti. Went down for the Sunday Night baseball game against Detroit last week and they have a very nice set up with both Great American and Paul Brown stadium sharing a separating parking lot. Both stadiums give you a good look of the bridges, the Ohio River, and the Down town areas on both sides of the river.

[halfsane]

As a general rule I am in favor of "Downtown" stadiums/arenas. I think they make the cities more vibrant, more of a destination. This has worked with CBS/The Jake/the areana.

 

Since Lucas Oil opened, downtown Indy is awesome. The downfall here is that there are no giant tailgating lots so everyone is spread out through smaller lots around the area. The plus is that it booms downtown on gameday when you can walk from dozens of restaurants, other attractions and bars right to the stadium. We also have Conseco fieldhouse just a few blocks away from Lucas Oil and our minor league baseball stadium. I love it.

[The Gipper]

Since Lucas Oil opened, downtown Indy is awesome. The downfall here is that there are no giant tailgating lots so everyone is spread out through smaller lots around the area. The plus is that it booms downtown on gameday when you can walk from dozens of restaurants, other attractions and bars right to the stadium. We also have Conseco fieldhouse just a few blocks away from Lucas Oil and our minor league baseball stadium. I love it.

 

I don't see the "downfall" as you describe it. I guess I just don't see a "giant tailgaiting lot" as that much of an asset. It sounds like you got a good thing going.

 

(and just curious...why is it better now than when the RCA Dome was operating? Weren't the two facilities just a few blocks apart?.....or did winning start to help with the atmosphere?)

[halfsane]

I don't see the "downfall" as you describe it. I guess I just don't see a "giant tailgaiting lot" as that much of an asset. It sounds like you got a good thing going.

 

(and just curious...why is it better now than when the RCA Dome was operating? Weren't the two facilities just a few blocks apart?.....or did winning start to help with the atmosphere?)

 

 

I enjoy the sea of tailgating you see in cities like Cleveland outside of the stadium. I think tailgating in Indy lacks a 'unity' feel because of the spread out setups. A big negative around here is that the prime lots (they are small) attract alot of competition that owners can exploit for that tailgating space. You cannot just say 'i am going to the muni lot'. You have to reserve a lot or drive around the city til you find one somewhere , so planning a tailgate with friends is pain in the ass most of the time.

 

I moved to Indy during the last season of the RCA domes use so I can't comment directly on the atmosphere difference. I can tell you that the RCA dome was small and looked second class when it was still standing (People were not proud it of and it kind of looked like a circus tent). On the other hand, Lucas Oil is a massive structure, almost a beacon to the city. I think it was a step up in status in a way. It also seats about 5000 more people which adds to the total amount of people out and about by some factor.

[tampadawgs]

Since Lucas Oil opened, downtown Indy is awesome. The downfall here is that there are no giant tailgating lots so everyone is spread out through smaller lots around the area. The plus is that it booms downtown on gameday when you can walk from dozens of restaurants, other attractions and bars right to the stadium. We also have Conseco fieldhouse just a few blocks away from Lucas Oil and our minor league baseball stadium. I love it.

 

 

The Browns

play the Colts in Oct at Indy. I already have my plane tickets for that weekend. My buddy works up in Indy My first trip up there. Golf, and football weekend!!!!

[The Gipper]

I enjoy the sea of tailgating you see in cities like Cleveland outside of the stadium. I think tailgating in Indy lacks a 'unity' feel because of the spread out setups. A big negative around here is that the prime lots (they are small) attract alot of competition that owners can exploit for that tailgating space. You cannot just say 'i am going to the muni lot'. You have to reserve a lot or drive around the city til you find one somewhere , so planning a tailgate with friends is pain in the ass most of the time.

 

I moved to Indy during the last season of the RCA domes use so I can't comment directly on the atmosphere difference. I can tell you that the RCA dome was small and looked second class when it was still standing (People were not proud it of and it kind of looked like a circus tent). On the other hand, Lucas Oil is a massive structure, almost a beacon to the city. I think it was a step up in status in a way. It also seats about 5000 more people which adds to the total amount of people out and about by some factor.

 

Well, in addition to the Muni Lot, there are also a lot of small lots around town here that people go to. The Browns Board is one of them. We are down in the Flats under the Detroit-Superior Bridge. It is a bit of a trek to the stadium, but nothing anyone can't handle. I think we only pay $5-10 to park there. See the Tailgate Forum for location. I would venture that something like that could be found in Indy.

[halfsane]

Well, in addition to the Muni Lot, there are also a lot of small lots around town here that people go to. The Browns Board is one of them. We are down in the Flats under the Detroit-Superior Bridge. It is a bit of a trek to the stadium, but nothing anyone can't handle. I think we only pay $5-10 to park there. See the Tailgate Forum for location. I would venture that something like that could be found in Indy.

 

 

Sure , you can. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I always love going to Cleveland and seeing a sea of tailgaters. It doesn't feel like real tailgating in Indy because of the fracture lots.

 

I have to think though, if the muni lot was turned into a mall, all those people would be looking or a place to party and the price of all lots would rise. I think that is kind of what happens in Indy and it leads to less impressive tailgating overall and many people just go to the surrounding establishments instead. There are no Colts buses and RVs parked all around. If you find them, they are hidden on a half acre lot somewhere in the ghetto.

[roach]

The reason why I am here is because I always think about Cleveland and the Browns when ever this topic comes up. I was wondering what has been the effect of building your football stadium on the waterfront and in the city on the surrounding neighborhood in Cleveland? Did you guys expect to see an uptick in development after the stadium was built? Has the stadium made that part of the city more of a destination. I know its close to the Rock and Roll HOF. When i visited your city a few years ago, I went the R&R HOF, checked out the stadium, but I cant remember if there was anything else down there.

 

In Buffalo, we are starting to develop our inner and outer harbor but it's no where near what you guys have in Cleveland. What we like about Ralph Wilson Stadium is the tailgating. Since it's kind of out in the country, there's plenty of parking and it's fairly cheap to attend games. many fans are worried about PSL's, increased ticket prices and a reduction in tailgating accessibility.

 

i've been to your stadium 3 or 4 times and enjoy the tailgating atmosphere.

 

i've read comments about the tailgating pros and cons of stadiums in areas of fragmented parking vs. areas with basically one colossal lot. i've been to both extremes, and both extremes seem to work fine. Lambeau is basically built in the middle of a neighborhood. Fans park and party in every lot imagineable (shopping centers (for a fee), people's front yards (for a fee), or wherever you can find a spot. It works fine and the fans have a blast. The other extreme are stadiums with the colossal lots like yours or the one at Sun Life Stadium in Miami. Those tailgates were very organized and lively. Cleveland is sort of a hybrid with three medium sized lots and a scattering of other lots all over the place. Fans seem to adapt to whatever they have available.

 

As for the waterfront location, that was a gigantic waste of city resources. We could have built our stadium in a number tired and or delapidated areas of downtown and brought life to that area (just like Progressive Field and the Q did to that awful Central Market area). Those selected areas were genius and have brought much needed life that part of city.

 

Cleveland Browns Stadium just sits there unused on the best real estate in the city. There is no ecenomic development around it because it doesn't make sense to delevop a supporting business that will have activity only a dozen dates per year. That stadium could have been built in southern downtown and connected the following: Horshoe Casino to the Prog/Q to the Browns Stadium to the Wolstien Center to the Theatre Distric. That would have created a tremendous boom of further southern development, and at the same time, allowed for exciting mixed use development (retal, comercial, aparment /condos) in the most beautiful part of our downtown- the waterfront.

 

Oh well, we botched that one up. City planners are still presenting concepts to link our disjointed situation. They will eventually figure something out that is better than what we have, but it's been a difficult task so far.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

For what it's worth, I think the best use of any space for a stadium is what they did with the Verizon Center in DC.

 

It's basically an enclosed mall with bowling, movie theates, restaurants, stores and whatnot attached to it, and then on game days the doors open and connect it all with the stadium basically being in the middle.

 

But it's an indoor arena, which is a lot easier to build around than a football stadium.

[miktoxic]

the OP was trying to compare stadiums within a city but placed on the waterfront. indy does not have that distinction as well as half the others mentioned. come to think of it maybe the bears are the only team i can think of right now if you were to take a shot of the surrounding waterfront which is a great lake. i don't hink buffalo is 'on' the water nor candlestick. then you got the river cities...pitt and cincy. kc/st.louis?

 

i think the browns are the actual team right on the water.

[The Gipper]

i've been to your stadium 3 or 4 times and enjoy the tailgating atmosphere.

 

i've read comments about the tailgating pros and cons of stadiums in areas of fragmented parking vs. areas with basically one colossal lot. i've been to both extremes, and both extremes seem to work fine. Lambeau is basically built in the middle of a neighborhood. Fans park and party in every lot imagineable (shopping centers (for a fee), people's front yards (for a fee), or wherever you can find a spot. It works fine and the fans have a blast. The other extreme are stadiums with the colossal lots like yours or the one at Sun Life Stadium in Miami. Those tailgates were very organized and lively. Cleveland is sort of a hybrid with three medium sized lots and a scattering of other lots all over the place. Fans seem to adapt to whatever they have available.

 

As for the waterfront location, that was a gigantic waste of city resources. We could have built our stadium in a number tired and or delapidated areas of downtown and brought life to that area (just like Progressive Field and the Q did to that awful Central Market area). Those selected areas were genius and have brought much needed life that part of city.

 

Cleveland Browns Stadium just sits there unused on the best real estate in the city. There is no ecenomic development around it because it doesn't make sense to delevop a supporting business that will have activity only a dozen dates per year. That stadium could have been built in southern downtown and connected the following: Horshoe Casino to the Prog/Q to the Browns Stadium to the Wolstien Center to the Theatre Distric. That would have created a tremendous boom of further southern development, and at the same time, allowed for exciting mixed use development (retal, comercial, aparment /condos) in the most beautiful part of our downtown- the waterfront.

 

Oh well, we botched that one up. City planners are still presenting concepts to link our disjointed situation. They will eventually figure something out that is better than what we have, but it's been a difficult task so far.

 

Of course, the plan was to build CBS right on the same spot that Muni sat, so there was no need to go looking elsewhere. Also, it was built to be next to the RRHOF and the Science Center. So all those attractions are together.

The key to CBS stadium is to hold more events there. There is no major college that plays in Cleveland. Once upon a time I went to an Ohio State game in Muni....but Northwestern was the home team. That sort of thing is no longer happening.

 

For the life of me I don't know why they don't hold a "Concert for the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame" in CBS stadium and invite everyone inducted into the HOF to play there. Kind of like the old "World Series of Rock". I went to see acts like CSNY, the Stones, Pink Floyd play there. Why can't a concert be held in conjunction with the induction ceremonies....kind of like how the Pro Football HOF does it now. They have an induction ceremony in a football field full of people, and the next day or so have a football game.

Cleveland doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, just follow Canton's pattern.

[ballpeen]

They need to put a roof on the thing if they want to hold more, year around events.

 

 

I know the idea was to put it in the same spot, but I agree with Roach, it wasn't very forward thinking. The stadium in another location would have helped that area and the current location could have been used for all sorts of economic development.

 

Everything about the plan was flubbed. Using the same land, then sticking a open air stadium that can't be used nearly enough. Cleveland could have tried for the Big 10 Championship in football, NCAA events, etc. that they can't because they won't schedule those things in open air arenas.

[The Gipper]

They need to put a roof on the thing if they want to hold more, year around events.

 

 

I know the idea was to put it in the same spot, but I agree with Roach, it wasn't very forward thinking. The stadium in another location would have helped that area and the current location could have been used for all sorts of economic development.

 

Everything about the plan was flubbed. Using the same land, then sticking a open air stadium that can't be used nearly enough. Cleveland could have tried for the Big 10 Championship in football, NCAA events, etc. that they can't because they won't schedule those things in open air arenas.

 

Yes. It was somewhat short sighted. I know in some other cities they actually have their Convention Center and hotels attached to their Stadia or arena. That was the case in Salt Lake with the Delta Center.

I know we wanted good old time outdoors rockem sockem football here. And I guess we have it, to a point. But, economically, incorporating a dome into a convention center would have been far more functional.

[Represent]

Hi everyone, I'm a visitor from a Buffalo Bills message board and I was curious about something you guys might be able to give a valid perspective on. I apologize if this is on the wrong forum.

 

Our owner is old and he might die soon and as a result, there's going be an ownership change. With that being said, our stadium's lease is up in 2013 and although the county and the team are working to renew it for another 20 years, it's not set in stone that a deal will get done.

 

Additionally, a local sports reporter started talking out of his rear end about possible ownership groups that would be interested in building a stadium in downtown Buffalo or perhaps closer to Canada in Niagara Falls, NY. That got me thinking about an oft debated topic of building a stadium on the waterfront in Buffalo or downtown.

 

The reason why I am here is because I always think about Cleveland and the Browns when ever this topic comes up. I was wondering what has been the effect of building your football stadium on the waterfront and in the city on the surrounding neighborhood in Cleveland? Did you guys expect to see an uptick in development after the stadium was built? Has the stadium made that part of the city more of a destination. I know its close to the Rock and Roll HOF. When i visited your city a few years ago, I went the R&R HOF, checked out the stadium, but I cant remember if there was anything else down there.

 

In Buffalo, we are starting to develop our inner and outer harbor but it's no where near what you guys have in Cleveland. What we like about Ralph Wilson Stadium is the tailgating. Since it's kind of out in the country, there's plenty of parking and it's fairly cheap to attend games. many fans are worried about PSL's, increased ticket prices and a reduction in tailgating accessibility.

 

 

I live within a 10 minute walk across the 25th Bridge to the stadium, to answer your question and this is dead honest the Browns Stadium itself doesn't make it a prime destination off the lake and i don't even think we even use it 15 times a year. Progessive Field, the Q, The Casino, the Flats, Rock Hall, and 6th street are more prime destination areas in downtown Cleveland... The Browns Stadium well not so much it's just kinda there.

[The Gipper]

Check plus big time on Ghoolie's sentiments.