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Laurinatis, Curry not participating in Senior Bowl


Guest Aloysius

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Guest Aloysius

The Senior Bowl week begins tomorrow. The rosters will be released today, but here are some things we already know:

  • Virginia OT Eugene Monroe will not participate. And that's the smart move: Monroe's already a lock for the top 10 (likely top 5), so he'd only be opening himself up to injury and/or a stock drop by showing up.

     

  • OSU guys Malcolm Jenkins and James Laurinaitis also won't show up. Jenkins is in a similar position to Monroe, so his decision is understandable. On the other hand, Laurinaitis could've used a chance to impress scouts this week. IMO, he's making a big mistake in not participating.
And something we don't know is whether Aaron Curry will participate. Though he doesn't have anything to gain, I'm hoping he does show up and display his great instincts & physical ability.

 

And even as a big Curry fan, I'd like to hear more about some of his "weak" areas - things like change of direction ability and rush moves.

 

We should have the full rosters this afternoon. Hopefully, his name will be listed on the North squad's roster (coached by the Bengals, btw).

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Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

 

I just pray to God that it isn't us.

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Guest Aloysius

As long as we're sticking to the 3-4, I don't think you need to worry about us drafting Laurinaitis.

 

A guy I forgot to mention: Javon Ringer backed out of the Senior Bowl. Apparently, he's still recovering from a knee scope & won't be ready in time to play this week.

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Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

 

I just pray to God that it isn't us.

 

 

Could not agree more; dude will be marginal at best

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Most of these bowls are remnants from the days when NFL teams didn't have 15 scouts roaming the country and most of the scouting was done by the coach, owner, and maybe 1-2 other guys after the season ended. This is where many of the teams had their first real exposure to many of these college players except maybe the guys who played in the backyard and the reports from the national services like Blesto, who all the teams hired.

 

Today, with a full house of scouts, 20 games to watch on any given Saturday v the 1-2 you could watch 20 years ago, it's a wonder these events even still exist.

 

If I was was advising any player who was a good player, I would tell them to stay far, far away. The only thing they can do is harm their position by having a bad week or getting hurt. Those lower round guys are going to be measured against you, so they are going to go maybe just a little too hard, or more on point, just a little too long. A blown out knee isn't going to help Jenkins or Curry at this juncture.

 

Now lower round guys....by all means....show up and have the week of your life.

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Guest Aloysius

Completely disagree, 'peen. Guys who perform well at the Senior Bowl usually have success in the pro's. Playing against the best draft prospects is a very good way of simulating how a guy will perform against nfl players.

 

Also, it's a good way to discover faults in a player's game that didn't show up in college, either because of the level of competition or the scheme he was playing in. For instance, check out the reports on Beau Bell last year - coming into the Senior Bowl, people talked about how he flew around the field from the WLB spot at UNLV. Then he gets in the Senior Bowl practices and the first thing scouts notice is that he can't change directions.

 

And playing in the Senior Bowl can have a similar positive effect on a guy's draft stock. D'Brickashaw Ferguson's great performance a few years back was said to have had a big role in Mangini taking him at pick #3.

 

And the teams coaching the game tend to fall in love with players: Jon Gruden fell in love with Cadillac Williams and Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary saw enough of Patrick Willis that they elected to take him at pick #11, which was considered a bit of a reach.

 

There's definitely a risk/reward calculation going on when players decide whether or not to participate in the all star games. But in many cases, the rewards outweigh the risks. I think Laurinaitis should have realized that held true in his case.

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Guest Masters
Completely disagree, 'peen. Guys who perform well at the Senior Bowl usually have success in the pro's.

 

All I can say is: Charlie Frye, Senior Bowl MVP.

 

The senior bowl does not increase guys stock. Might get a player in the mind of a scout, but they are still going to go back and watch tape on the kids. The combine is where guys draft stock is made or broken these days.

 

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Guest Aloysius

And as I said in another thread, the practices are more important than the game. So I wouldn't make much out of Frye being MVP of the game.

 

And I never said that a player's Senior Bowl performance completely determines his draft stock. But it definitely plays a big role.

 

Exhibit A:

 

Wimbley finished his senior season with 7.5 sacks, 17 quarterback pressures and 4 pass breakups. He missed two games late in the year with a knee sprain, but came back to play in the Orange Bowl and the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., at the end of January.

 

By then, every Browns coach and scout knew to watch him. But he was still playing as a 4-3 defensive end, so there was still some guesswork involved.

 

The NFL game is different; it's faster, the schemes are more complex, the individual demands placed upon each player -- both on and off the field -- are more intense. Every NFL draft pick is a projection, and the projection of a college defensive end to a 3-4 outside linebacker might be the most difficult of them all.

 

"Until you sit down and get to know the player, see him in an individual workout, you really don't know," Rees said.

 

McCreight spends most of his year working with pro personnel and doesn't see most draft prospects in person until the Senior Bowl. When he saw Wimbley there, he saw an impressive physical specimen who not only looked the part, but looked like he belonged with the top-flight athletes in Mobile that week.

 

A Senior Bowl-record 15 players from the '06 game became first-round selections.

 

"He did a great job against great competition," McCreight said. "That's when I thought he could be our pick."

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Think about it. What does a high first round draft pick have to gain? Isn't there a bigger chance he could slide then move up. Jenkins and Curry have nothing else to prove. What they need more is to get in the weight room and work with a personal trainer and also work on some speed and agility drills for the combine and their pro days.

 

Guys looking to move from the second round to the first or the second day to the first are guys that will benefit from bowl games not guys that will already be top 20 picks. Their grades will go up based on the combine and their pro days.

 

Top first rounders would be fools to play in a all star game. their are too many downsides to it. Injury and also maybe being outplayed by some nobody.

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Guest Aloysius
Heck would tell you that Senior Bowl Practice Week is probably the biggest week in draft season... and he has an inside source. Sure, the Combine is big on a lot of levels, including interviews and isolating them from variables, but SBPW shows them in context with future NFL players.

 

I don't like when guys skip it, honestly, although I understand the tack. I hope Rey blows it up, looks great all week, and really thrives in the game.

 

I take it he's playing, Alo?

He's listed on the South roster, but it's possible that he'll back out.

 

It'd be smart for him to participate. Jacksonville is coaching the South squad; if he makes a great impression on the coaching staff, it's possible they could pick him at 8.

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Completely disagree, 'peen.

 

I don't see how....but that's cool. That is what message boards are about.

 

Like I said earlier.....guys can move up, and for some of them, they need to play. For some, they really can only move down.

 

On that subject, i have never really agreed with guys shooting up boards.

 

What can be learned in watching guys in shorts that couldn't be learned watching them during the season??

 

This is where I think scouts screw things up and talk themselves out of things or in to things that aren't there....using the cookie cutter...well...he runs 1/10th slower than we thought....or more on point, he runs 1/10th faster.....so what???

 

If they didn't impress you enough 4-5 weeks ago, why in the hell should they be all that impressive now......unless your scouting has been somewhat suspect all along??

 

I can understand guys moving a few slots one way or the other, but unless something really bad comes out, I don't understand big drops, and I don't understand big gains even more.

 

 

JMO

 

If it isn't in the film, some practice or 40 time isn't going to change my mind much.

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Guest Aloysius
Think about it. What does a high first round draft pick have to gain? Isn't there a bigger chance he could slide then move up. Jenkins and Curry have nothing else to prove. What they need more is to get in the weight room and work with a personal trainer and also work on some speed and agility drills for the combine and their pro days.

 

Guys looking to move from the second round to the first or the second day to the first are guys that will benefit from bowl games not guys that will already be top 20 picks. Their grades will go up based on the combine and their pro days.

 

Top first rounders would be fools to play in a all star game. their are too many downsides to it. Injury and also maybe being outplayed by some nobody.

I agree with you about Jenkins & Curry - they're pretty much consensus top 10 picks.

 

But look at a guy like Maualuga. Mocks now have him being taken at 12, but the Senior Bowl gives him a chance to convince the Jags to take him, who pick at 8. Last year, the 8th pick (Derrick Harvey) signed a 5 year, $23.8M deal. The 12th pick (Ryan Clady) signed a 6 year, $14.75M contract. So moving up those four spots could almost double the value of Rey's rookie deal.

 

That's why it makes sense for Rey to participate. And that's why a guy like Laurinaitis is making a big mistake in not showing up.

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Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

 

I just pray to God that it isn't us.

 

Coaches from other teams usually know their business and are not in the business of "Hyping" players. Two years in a row 11 coaches in the Big Ten voted this guy as the Big Ten's best defensive player. That alone says so much. The people who's job it is to teach football has said two years in a row that this guy is the best at that trade.

 

Saying what his future will be is anyone's guess and can be dabated until he goes out proves someone right or wrong.

But to say that it just hype that has got him all these awards and generally known as one of the top, if not the top MLB in the game is ridiculous.

 

I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

 

I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

 

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Guest Masters

If people have illussions of Lauranitis being Ray Lewis, then he'll be flop. If the expectaion is of him to be a solid starting LB for 10-12, he's probably gonna live up to that.

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Wow, what a dud of a game.

 

I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

 

Box Score

 

 

I know he has the game wrong. He's refering to the East-West Shrine game. But as far as that all star game, I thought it was one of the best East-West Shrine games I've seen.

 

Plus, if you watch one of these games for pure entertainment purposes you are going to be very disappointed. These games are interesting only if you want to watch certain prospects. For that reason I loved that game yesterday.

For me the fun part is to use the DVR and watch plays in slow mo while isolating on various players.

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Guest Aloysius
I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

 

I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

 

And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

 

Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

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If people have illussions of Lauranitis being Ray Lewis, then he'll be flop. If the expectaion is of him to be a solid starting LB for 10-12, he's probably gonna live up to that.

 

 

Right. There is only one Ray Lewis.

 

I don't even think JL is a middle guy. I think he's a future Will LB because he is wonderful in open space and a great tackler.

His weakness is shedding blockers. Not good for a Mike or Sam.

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Or he could become a 5th rounder if he gets hurt....for every reason they make sense, they don't make sense for as many reasons.

 

If you can move up, you can move down.

 

First round locks should avoid these games.

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Guest Aloysius
Or he could become a 5th rounder if he gets hurt....for every reason they make sense, they don't make sense for as many reasons.

Or he could get hurt during the arduous pre-Combine training, as Wisconsin CB Jack Ikegwuonu did last year. But I don't think players are going to stop trying to shave that hundredth of a second off their 40 times.

 

Basically, the whole draft process is about being getting as much possible money as you can. If Rey's got a chance to double his (and his agent's) earnings, he's going to go for it.

 

After all, how many players are going to buy, "You shouldn't play because you might suck"?

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I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

 

And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

 

Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

 

I'm sorry. You are right. If he was running a sub 4.5 he'd truly be a freak.

 

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Guest Aloysius

Who knows? It could happen.

 

A.J. Hawk ran a 4.47 on OSU's fast track (though he ran a 4.59 at the Combine).

 

I'm guessing Malcolm Jenkins is going to run in the low-mid 4.3's at his pro day. Anything slower than that would actually be a disappointment.

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After all, how many players are going to buy, "You shouldn't play because you might suck"?

 

Come on Al....I never said that. The closest was they might have a bad week or bad game. Look at Daniels yesterday....I didn't see the game, but by all accounts on here is he sure hurt any chance he had of gaining or holding some draft position.

 

Sure it is about money......but sometimes protecting your position makes you just as much as bettering your position....think about it and you will get the point.

 

These guys and their agents study things just as much as teams do...they have an idea who is going to draft what....Rey isn't going up to #1 in the draft....and probably isn't falling lower than 12....so then they look at how high they might go with a great showing...if it isn't high enough to justify the gamble of how far they might fall...it isn't worth it.

 

If the potential gain isn't worth the potential risk....and it's my money....I know which way I go every time.

 

Think of it as a stock...if the best you can gain is say 10%, and the risk is you might lose 80%....you can say what you want...I know how you are going to conduct your affairs....I don't think you are dumb if you need a little clue.

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Guest Aloysius

Sure, I was being a little facetious there. But what I don't think you're getting is that the money at the top of the draft is so significant that it justifies risking a draft stock slide. If a guy like Maualuga's got a chance of moving from 12 to 8, he should take it.

 

Let's actually look at the numbers. Using the '08 contracts, a move from 12 to 8 would amount to going from $2.46M/year to $4.76M - a 93.5% dollar increase. If he goes from 12 to 7 ($6.7M), his money increases 172%.

 

What happens if he falls? Well, the money towards the bottom of the 1st does follow a consistent negative slope. The last pick of the 1st Round, Kenny Phillips, actually received $2.3M/year, only $0.16M/year less than the 12th pick.

 

To counter for that, let's assume Maualuga slides to somewhere in the mid-20's of the 1st. If you average out the last 12 picks of the 1st Round (picks 20-31), you get $2.16M - only a 12% drop from the per year $ at pick #12.

 

So the possibility of jumping 4-5 picks clearly justifies risking a 10-15 pick drop.

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