Haden most likely out vs. Steelers with hip injury

[The Gipper]

Yes. we are looking at the same list. He's listed as 19TH, but TIED for 3rd. Are you too dumb to read & interpret the list?

 

Considering the BROWNS have one drop as a team, it's realistic to say 3 is a bit much for one player this early.

 

Of course you wont agree. Expected. Save your breath, because the facts are the facts.

 

Bet you wish he caught that ball in Tampa. That was one huge drop.

How can you be both 19th and tied for third. I have to go with the Vag. here, how does this math work?

[Vagitron]

How can you be both 19th and tied for third. I have to go with the Vag. here, how does this math work?

There are a ton of recievers with three drops. The most on the season I believe is 5. Its a slippery ass slope and good ole manzy got caught with his hand in the extremely weak argument cookie jar.

[tml1138]

Judging from the past, I believe I could cover Brown better than Haden

 

Yes, Haden having trouble with A. Brown was a discussion after the week 1 game. That being said, I'd like to see him healthy to redeem himself there.

 

If he's not playing this week I really hope someone can fill the shoes.

[Manzier]

How can you be both 19th and tied for third. I have to go with the Vag. here, how does this math work?

Very simple. Happens all the time with stats. You can tie for first and you can tie for 20TH.

 

So, if Hoyer, Brady and manning were all tied for the league lead with 20 td passes each and they were all on a list of TD leaders and Hoyers name came up third, would that make him 3rd in the league or tied for first?

[miktoxic]

 

Yes, Haden having trouble with A. Brown was a discussion after the week 1 game. That being said, I'd like to see him healthy to redeem himself there.

 

If he's not playing this week I really hope someone can fill the shoes.

 

well comeonman just stepped up and said he'd do it.

 

just hope the belushi speeball is working in the positive not the nodding off on the bench come down.

[Manzier]

Ok. I did find a glitch in my logic and will correct it. Brown is tied for seventh, with the third most drops. As there are 5 players with 1 more and 1 player with 2 more. Here's a link to show it.....

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

[Manzier]

Here's a more thorough list. You can slice this one a lot of ways. But the drop % still has him way WAY down the list. And I get that Brown isnt terrible. He's quite good. And there are other WRs that drop more balls. But he does have a 6% drop rate, which really isn't good and prevents me from putting him with other top receivers. And he can choke under pressure. Which isn't a good trait either. Kind of a short Braylon Edwards.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2014/

[The Gipper]

Very simple. Happens all the time with stats. You can tie for first and you can tie for 20TH.

 

So, if Hoyer, Brady and manning were all tied for the league lead with 20 td passes each and they were all on a list of TD leaders and Hoyers name came up third, would that make him 3rd in the league or tied for first?

No, I am not buying that. It doesn't matter which name is listed first.

If QB A has 25 TD passes, he is first.

If QB B has 23 TD passes, he is second.

If QBs C, D, E, F, G all have 20 TD passes they are all tied for third. (G would not be 7th simply because his name was listed last on some list)

If QB H has 18 TD passes then he is eighth

[Manzier]

No, I am not buying that. It doesn't matter which name is listed first.

If QB A has 25 TD passes, he is first.

If QB B has 23 TD passes, he is second.

If QBs C, D, E, F, G all have 20 TD passes they are all tied for third. (G would not be 7th simply because his name was listed last on some list)

If QB H has 18 TD passes then he is eighth

Exactly. What you just said is what I just said. Brown is 7th and is tied for the 3rd most drops. Not 19th.

Wr 1 has 5 drops, he is first

Wr's 2 thru 6 have 4 drops and are tied for 2nd

Wr's 7-20 have 3 drops and they are tied for 7th

 

Cleveland Browns = 1 drop. Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vagitron]

Here's a more thorough list. You can slice this one a lot of ways. But the drop % still has him way WAY down the list. And I get that Brown isnt terrible. He's quite good. And there are other WRs that drop more balls. But he does have a 6% drop rate, which really isn't good and prevents me from putting him with other top receivers. And he can choke under pressure. Which isn't a good trait either. Kind of a short Braylon Edwards.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2014/

You're an idiot. Keep spinning the web. Run the list of receivers above brown on that list. D. Thomas, dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Roddy white and that's just naming a few. The first three are arguably top 5 in the league but you aren't ready to put them in your upper tier. Who is in your upper tier big guy? Just admit you started a stupid debate that you can't adequately back track from without just flat out saying you're an idiot. Its only going to spin so long.

[Manzier]

You're an idiot. Keep spinning the web. Run the list of receivers above brown on that list. D. Thomas, dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Roddy white and that's just naming a few. The first three are arguably top 5 in the league but you aren't ready to put them in your upper tier. Who is in your upper tier big guy? Just admit you started a stupid debate that you can't adequately back track from without just flat out saying you're an idiot. Its only going to spin so long.

Upper tier types catch the game winners.

 

And I didn't try to start a stupid debate. I simply listed current statistics and some facts and my opinion on Brown. It's you who wants to debate them.

 

We aren't playing those other receivers on the list, so I dont give a shit about them. Im talking about the one we are playing next week. Who also happens to have DROPPED the game winner last week. And, TO ME, THATS RELEVANT.

 

And, again TO ME, it's an interesting statistic that BROWN has dropped more than the BROWNS.

 

Get over it. Im not making this shit up.

[Vagitron]

Upper tier types catch the game winners.

 

And I didn't try to start a stupid debate. I simply listed current statistics and some facts and my opinion on Brown. It's you who wants to debate them.

 

We aren't playing those other receivers on the list, so I dont give a shit about them. Im talking about the one we are playing next week. Who also happens to have DROPPED the game winner last week. And, TO ME, THATS RELEVANT.

 

And, again TO ME, it's an interesting statistic that BROWN has dropped more than the BROWNS.

 

Get over it. Im not making this shit up.

Ask Joe haden what he thinks about Antonio brown.

[Manzier]

Ive already said he was a good receiver. Have no problem with that. I know he does well against Haden too. Got no problem with that. If there is ok, good, better and best. Id rate him better..A #1 for most teams. But he's not up there with the Megotrons, TO's and Gordons of the league. Doesn't have the size, speed and muscle combination to do what they do. And, until this year, has had a paltry avg gain per catch(12-13 yards) compared to those others. The big boys get more like 18-20 ypp. Thats my take. Its an opinion. Im allowed. It wont change.

[D Bone]

What must someone's life be like, who spends his presumably free time posting on another NFL team's fan forum, just to constantly try to start arguments? Pathetic and sad both come to mind.

[Vagitron]

What must someone's life be like, who spends his presumably free time posting on another NFL team's fan forum, just to constantly try to start arguments? Pathetic and sad both come to mind.

I didn't start the debate. Manzy did and its called I have a cell phone and each post takes a minute of my time. I'm not here all the time, only when I'm involved in a thread. Why is it such a problem for you? Hey Manzy what about Lynn swann, Chris carter, sterling Sharpe to name a fewoff the top of my head. I guess they weren't at the top of their craft because they are under 6 foot. Once again, you're an idiot.

[Manzier]

Name calling. Brilliant and expected. When you have no valid points, you just call names. What an Einstein.

 

Again. You miss(and ignore) every valid point I make and just say "idiot" instead. Your a joke. And compared to all those receivers you keep listing, Brown is a joke too.

 

Sorry it bothers you so much that I dont think your player is the best. He's not. And I wouldnt give up ANY of those players you listed for Brown. Not a single one. But I do understand your apparent need for my approval, so I guess we're at a cross roads.

 

And which game was it that Jerry Rice dropped the game winner? Slips my mind.

[Manzier]

I didn't start the debate.

No. Manzy posted stats. You debated. I restated facts. You debated. I stuck with the facts. You started name calling. I stated the facts again. etc etc etc

[Vagitron]

I didn't say he was the best and I misspoke on rice. He is 6'2.

[Vagitron]

No. Manzy posted stats. You debated. I restated facts. You debated. I stuck with the facts. You started name calling. I stated the facts again. etc etc etc

Yea tied for 3rd with some of the best receivers in the game. You win.

[Manzier]

I didn't say he was the best and I misspoke on rice. He is 6'2.

 

And I didn't say he was the worst.

Yea tied for 3rd with some of the best receivers in the game. You win.

Yea. Tied for third. EXACTLY what I first said and then you had a fukking cow for like 30 posts.

 

 

And Id rate him higher if he didnt drop game winners.

[The Gipper]

The receivers that are targeted the most are likely to have more drops....as a general rule.

[Manzier]

The receivers that are targeted the most are likely to have more drops....as a general rule.

Thats correct. But the drop percentage accounts for that. Based upon his drop percentage of 5.9%, he ranks well down the list. Actually, something like 211th or so.

 

It's just a stat fellas. Not a big big deal. It's interesting to me. Thats all. Brown is a fine receiver. Ive said many times.

 

He has dropped 3 out of 30 catches and 51 attempts.

Our whole team has dropped 1 out of 80 catches and 130 attempts.

 

Its a good stat. Enjoy it. I am.

 

Who knows. Maybe Brown hauls in the winning catch and I eat crow next week. Wouldnt be the first time. Or maybe he drops it. Wouldn't be the first time either.

[Suomi]

Skrine on Brown. All day. Buster's quicks should allow him to stay with Brown better than Haden. Joe, compensating for his lack of quicks, always seems to guess the receiver's route and then tries to beat him to an area and re-direct - only to see that the receiver broke off the route and is now 3 yards away and wide open. However, if Joe guesses right, he blankets the guy and often deflects the pass. Hasn't seemed to be guessing right lately.

[Vagitron]

 

And I didn't say he was the worst.

Yea. Tied for third. EXACTLY what I first said and then you had a fukking cow for like 30 posts.

 

 

And Id rate him higher if he didnt drop game winners.

Right, you just failed to mention he was tied for third with 20 other receivers. Previously it was just Sammy watkins. I'd say that's a substantial omission for the sake of protecting your argument.

[Manzier]

Right, you just failed to mention he was tied for third with 20 other receivers. Previously it was just Sammy watkins. I'd say that's a substantial omission for the sake of protecting your argument.

Again, I didn't "fail" to mention anything. Those other receivers aren't relevant to this game. I wasn't making a list of best receivers. I was simply stating my opinion and a factual statistic about ONE receiver who is our opponent next week. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

 

You are REALLY WAY WAY too concerned about my opinion on this guy. Sorry I dont think he's as great as you do. Get another hobby or over it already.

[Vagitron]

Again, I didn't "fail" to mention anything. Those other receivers aren't relevant to this game. I wasn't making a list of best receivers. I was simply stating my opinion and a factual statistic about ONE receiver who is our opponent next week. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

 

You are REALLY WAY WAY too concerned about my opinion on this guy. Sorry I dont think he's as great as you do. Get another hobby or over it already.

I couldn't care less what you think about him. You said he was tied for 3rd in the drops category and only mentioned Sammy Watkins. Your failed to include the other 16 or so guys also with three drops. Your initial attempt was to compare him to a rookie like it was some sort of dig. Why not mention that dez Bryant also has three drops? I also watch a bunch of games each Sunday and have watched brown week after week make circus catches. The one he dropped against the bucs was no routine catch. He barely had his finger tips on it. You don't have a corner that can cover him.

[Manzier]

I couldn't care less what you think about him. Your last 20 posts would suggest otherwise

 

You said he was tied for 3rd in the drops category Because he is

 

and only mentioned Sammy Watkins... because HE is relevant to Browns fans. Many who wanted him.

 

Your failed to include the other 16 or so guys also with three drops...... Because this discussion is about the Browns Steelers game and us covering BROWN without Haden. So I posted a BROWN stat, because it relates. The 16 other guys have zero to do with it.

 

Your initial attempt was to compare him to a rookie like it was some sort of dig. You just took it that way. See above to understand Watkins. And If I take a dig at Brown, its not your job to get offended. Gee. Grow some balls.

 

Why not mention that dez Bryant also has three drops? Because he plays for Dallas and has nothing to do with the Browns Steelers Haden or Brown? Why can you not understand this simple context, even after I explain it over and over.

 

I also watch a bunch of games each Sunday and have watched brown week after week make circus catches. Good for you. Hooray

 

The one he dropped against the bucs was no routine catch. He barely had his finger tips on it. Right through his hands. It happens.

 

You don't have a corner that can cover him.It sure seems that way. He's your only option. Hope, for your sake, he holds the important ones.

 

It's hilarious that this thread is about Haden and Brown and I post one single itty bitty Antonio Brown stat and you lose your mind over and over and over about it. Then you think to make my simple comment, I should have listed every single freaking WR on the list ...and for what?...who cares about them?....cept the Steelers fans.It's not my job the keep you happy at the Browns board. Laughable.

[ITHIKA]

Skrine on Brown. All day. Buster's quicks should allow him to stay with Brown better than Haden. Joe, compensating for his lack of quicks, always seems to guess the receiver's route and then tries to beat him to an area and re-direct - only to see that the receiver broke off the route and is now 3 yards away and wide open. However, if Joe guesses right, he blankets the guy and often deflects the pass. Hasn't seemed to be guessing right lately.

Thats because haden is much better in zone that man. Pettimes defense is predicated on the corners playing man and thats not working out to well for old joe.

[hx214]

Manzier,

 

If you go into your settings at the top of the page and go to the 'Ignore' settings and add all the trolls to that list, it cleans up all the threads you read rather nicely.

[RoyceRolls]

Vagitron,

 

If you want to spend your day talking about Antonio Brown with your hand on your dick and a pair of socks in your ass, go to the Steelers board...