Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 The 6 (until can practice) and the 8 (until can be activated) are mandated under the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. Generally a product of two things,being inexperienced (which he is, and needs more reps on the edge) and trying to hard to make a play. If he reads his keys, plays fast and disciplined, good things will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play..... Well, I think he could be coached better to learn to tackle better. Tackling is very much a technique that should be able to be learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return. http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dffvP?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=cleveland-browns Well, that leaves us 2 main DL cogs down: The Sausage King and Armonty Bryant. We now have the following in the DL: Winn, Taylor, Rubin, Kitchen, D. Bryant, Fua Plus Jacobbi McDaniel still on the PS. So...who is the Fua? A guy they picked up after Armonty Bryant went down? Does he bring anything to the table. And what about the health situation of Taylor, Rubin, Winn. Didn't they each miss some time due to injury? So, with all these DL gone, then the Browns are going to have to run more 3-4 if Sheard and Mingo are going to stay at the OLB slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill. But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill. But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility. There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver. Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill. But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility. His tape against Oregon and Clemson alone would indicate his lateral agility is pretty good. I will point out the other thing he needs to work on his staying low around the edge. If he can't dip his hips as a standup backer, then he's lost a lot in his pass rush arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280 A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'd like to see us return to the ENT with the standup 9tech (Kruger) That means Sheard could return to having his hand in the ground at a more "traditional" DE look. He'd be the weakside DE and the SDE would most likely be Big Phil (when healthy) allowing Rub, Hughes and Kitchen at the Nose and Winn to sub for Phil. edit: Mingo could sub in for Sheard while he slides inside on passing downs. Krugers done his best work this season with his hand in the ground. Really him and Sheard should never be on the field at the same time, they should sub in for each other to keep each other fresh. Why, cause our best defense comes with 3 DL and the two OLB'ers hovering at the edge with one putting his hand down when the defense smells pass. The problem with both of them on the field at the same time is a coverage issue. The way I "thought" they were gonna use Mingo is to stand him up on the weak side opposite the hybrids (Kruger/Sheard). That way if it is a pass he can delay blitz...if it's a run he's starting off the line so he can get separation better and isn't solely responsible for edge cause there's a DE on his side. What's been happening a lot though is we bring in 2 DL and stand up two OLB'ers on the edge. I hate that look. It nerfs our depth at DL and it allows OL to get off on the ILB'ers whom, imo, aren't capable of getting off blocks. Dansby and Kirk just aren't that strong...nor are they terribly fast either. So our OLB'ers do their job and set the edges, which they've done pretty well this year....but the inside lanes are just wide open. Not sure how far up they're bringing whitner but they may have to start bringing him up and playing him almost like a LB'er if we wanna stop getting shit on in the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yeah that play stuck out to me too. I had to rewind it a couple times. I have no idea what he was shooting for on that play. Looked completely lost on what should have been a highlight reel shot to the TE's lower back. The kind that snaps you face down into the grass and teammates have to help you pick sod out of your grill. I may be changing my opinion on Mingo here very soon. There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver. Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280 In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE. Depends on what the coaches want, what the scheme and talent dictate. Too many people far too often pigeon hole "3-4" and "4-3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITHIKA Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The 3 4 is the base defense generally used in 1st and 2nd down situations. This defense looks like a 5 man front with a nt and two de's with hands in the dirt. The two olbs are standing at the line of scrimage and either rushing or covering. this is the defensive formation we generally get gashed for in the run game. however, last week they showed a huge improvement in the defense and i believe rubin had his best game. My favorite formation theyve run is the wide 9 nickle. This seems to be the one in 3rd and long where they are getting the most heat. This past week we saw leonard in this formation as the nickel cover and youll know what it looks like by its four man front spread out wide in the 9 technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The 3 4 is the base defense generally used in 1st and 2nd down situations. This defense looks like a 5 man front with a nt and two de's with hands in the dirt. The two olbs are standing at the line of scrimage and either rushing or covering. this is the defensive formation we generally get gashed for in the run game. however, last week they showed a huge improvement in the defense and i believe rubin had his best game. My favorite formation theyve run is the wide 9 nickle. This seems to be the one in 3rd and long where they are getting the most heat. This past week we saw leonard in this formation as the nickel cover and youll know what it looks like by its four man front spread out wide in the 9 technique. Actually that'd be more of a dime package because Leonard comes in as a 3rd safety but mans something of robber linebacker spot. The times this front gets consistent pressure are when hands are in the ground. Watching Sheard standing is painful, watching him in space trying to cover is more painful. Personnel needs an upgrade or the coaching staff needs to adjust their philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 especially because sheard was such a beast last year playing in a different scheme. that's why i always bring up mingo and sheard when i talk about this defense. they should be pass rushing DEs period. a year wasted on these guys trying to fit their round pegs into a square hole type-of-thing really pisses me off and prob does them as well. one or both will walk when given the chance and turn into something great because of coaching staff just can't let these guys play. i think a lot of DCs that would love to have some of these guys on their squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 especially because sheard was such a beast last year playing in a different scheme. that's why i always bring up mingo and sheard when i talk about this defense. they should be pass rushing DEs period. a year wasted on these guys trying to fit their round pegs into a square hole type-of-thing really pisses me off and prob does them as well. one or both will walk when given the chance and turn into something great because of coaching staff just can't let these guys play. i think a lot of DCs that would love to have some of these guys on their squad. This has been my mantra on sheard all along......he was really good at DE. As a DE in 2011-12 , he had 110 tackles and 15.5 sacks and was still improving. But, since the switch to LB last year, he has only 62 tackles and 7.5 sacks and looks a bit lost LB's should have a LOT more tackles than DE's, correct? The difference in production is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs. makes no friggin sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs. makes no friggin sense to me. I've told you specifically before The pass rush in a 4-3 comes from the DEs; the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLBs. Sheard/Kruger/Mingo are pass rushers, so in a 3-4, Sheard moves to OLB (and Mingo, who was a DE in college). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I've told you specifically before The pass rush in a 4-3 comes from the DEs; the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLBs. Sheard/Kruger/Mingo are pass rushers, so in a 3-4, Sheard moves to OLB (and Mingo, who was a DE in college). i know chris and i appreciate it but in the 'new era' of the NFL there are no rules to define a O or D scheme. we now have hybrids. why do you draft a QB? to play TE? no, correct? so why would you draft a DE to be a LB? and why as a supposed DC guru do you come to a new team as HC, look at the player's stats from last year, see their strengths and weaknesses and plug them into the negative? just askin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 i know chris and i appreciate it but in the 'new era' of the NFL there are no rules to define a O or D scheme. we now have hybrids. why do you draft a QB? to play TE? so why would you draft a DE to be a LB? just askin. And in the hybrid system, you'll see people classified as OLBs with their hand in the dirt at times as well. Also, yeah, QBs get drafted all the time to play different positions - Denard Robinson, Jags, RB Marquis Gray, Browns/Vikings, TE/FB Josh Cribbs, Browns, WR/PR/KR/Everything else Joel Bitonio played LT in college and moved inside to guard - similar skillsets, but not exactly the same. Jadeveon Clowney was a DE in college and is listed as a backer for the Texans, just because of their system, but he'll be rushing the passer more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I understand why they've done it and all. And get that thats the way they do it now(current trend), but dont see it working. Right now, I just see a bunch of "hybrid specialists" who keep getting caught out of position. And my old school way of thinking is they aren't "hybrid specialists", so much as they are incomplete players. So, if you bring in Mingo as a pass rusher and the other team audibles a run, then we get burnt. If Sheard is a DE type playing LB and he suddenly gets stuck covering a pass route, then we get burnt again. So, yes, I know a lot of players get converted for a lot of reasons. Im not not sure the Sheard switch is paying off. Thats all. Im patient though(maybe too patient). I get it's a new system and only 7 games in. And the D is looking better the last couple weeks. Things may be coming together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 We need starters on DL let elone depth, Taylor and Rubin suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I honestly wouldn't mind if we just turned sheard and kruger into 4-3 DE's. Hell I think they set the edge better with their hands in the dirt too. I think our LB'ers are more suited to the 4-3 imo. Every now and then we can still stand up Sheard and Kruger and have them drop back a little. But I really think we're better built for the 4-3, I agree with Mlk on this one. Put a couple pounds back on Kruger and let him go back to bullrushing tackles and see how his numbers pick up. When he was in Blt that's almost all he did. His hands were in the dirt probably 80% of his snaps. His run defense was terrible, but he's gotten a lot better at that. I think making Sheard and Kruger regular down lineman again would let us do some really creative shit with Mingo. Mingo could be the 3rd down edge specialist but could also take 1st and 2nd down reps as the 4-3 sam or will. Of course that's all predicated on him getting better at tackling in open space, what I saw last week was just awful how he whiffed on a TE bobbling the ball like juggling clown just waiting to be smashed. Infuriating. But....i'll give Mingo a pass this is his second scheme in as many years. He's basically a rookie all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 It's scheme. They were beasts in Hortons defense. Something is different that they just haven't adapted to. What I dunno..somebody really needs to all-22 some of these games. We need starters on DL let elone depth, Taylor and Rubin suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 What I dunno..somebody really needs to all-22 some of these games. me either. let's hope the coaching staff knows cuz if not we'll be sitting at 5-11 or 6-10. not a good improvement considering the talent we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 This has been my mantra on sheard all along......he was really good at DE. Worst transition to LB candidate since Kenard Lang... As for the whole depth thing... The only reason D-line is still decent, is that we had the depth to withstand this injury onslaught... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Worst transition to LB candidate since Kenard Lang... nah, Freeney was the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.