Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yes. I think he is. AND, if he isn't, I think we can get a great receiver for less than our top pick. what information do you have that says he's over it? I mean you'd like to think the guy is grateful as shit he's still on an NFL roster and dodged a major fucking bullet. But what do you know that makes you so sure of this that if you were the GM you also wouldn't have taken Watkins? This is what is puzzling me. How on earth do we knwo that Gordon isn't going to get popped next week for something? His past record makes it almost a certainty that something else at some point is going to come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I thought this whole last episode was 2nd hand smoke and was bullshit, yes, over... yeah but didn't he get a DUI while the investigation into that 3rd strike was in progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Two things: Not really that close to my order... In general, I'm an up the middle guy. Odd how far that order is (and mine would be) from a Fantasy order, where top RBs go first. OK sure, if you're a "teams are built from the inside out" guy - and the more I see what a dominant OL can do to a team, the more I'm leaning that way - then pick up more linemen higher up. But in your scenario, where do you draft a WR? Assuming you pick up a QB before WR, you also get a DL or two, and OL or two, you're still picking WR at best 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 This conversation is still going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need? To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on. Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 This conversation is still going on? yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been? If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners. You're kind of defeating yourself here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.....a VERY very solid point there. Don't think you can twist that logic, though someone will try. You're kind of defeating yourself here...seems to happen often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Taylor Gabriel is 7th amongst all rookies in yards and 1st in average http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2014&Submit=Go&experience=0&archive=false&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&qualified=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 This is funny.. Whoa, somehow, you guys think draft picks get us to the playoffs. There is a dumpster fire behind our stadium, and it's filled with first round busts, second round busts, and third round busts. I'll take a star, rather than draft picks because our boat load of prime picks has sunk to the bottom of Lake Erie. Barky Mingo anyone? Shall I go on? it's all a crapshoot dude. mingo was great at LSU but so far he hasn't transitioned his game to the NFL. partly because quite frankly i don't think this staff knows how to use him and partly is mental. i think he has the physical skills but he's just missing it. i'll give him another year. why is everybody blowing watkins? because he had a good game against the jets? THE FRIGGIN JETS? do you know how bad their D backfield is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Shall I go on? No. Wish you had never started really. And, yes, the road to the playoffs is 100% through the draft. It's proven over and over and over again. To bad Buff wont be participating in picking any of the top talent next year. And, to beat a dead horse, that heap of bad draft picks wasn't made by this FO. So the constant arguments about our OLD FO have zero bearing on the PRESENT . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners. You're kind of defeating yourself here... I see your logic but like I said before, what would those receivers of Warner's have done with these rules? The problem with some of these new rules is that it almost doesn't matter how good a DB is in certain situations...if the ball is thrown correctly and the receiver has run his route, it's a completion. What I think you want now from DB's is that they don't get left once the catch is made. I'm not downplaying the importance of DB's. But what I won't accept is the notion that someone like Watkins or some other major #1's out there would be having the Browns in a better position. There's no question of that. If it wasn't the case, why do any of you care when Gordon gets back? He's not important, we can make it work with our 2nd level talent so fuck it who cares if JG ever plays for us again? You all know that's ridiculous. You all know what the potential of this offense is when you have Gordon back and Cameron is healthy. I'm not saying that every single year you go out and slobber over a #1 receiver. But this year, with Gordons problems....I really don't know what you guys are debating. Watkins is proving we made the wrong call. And to their unexpected credit, guys like Skrine Gipson and Williams are also proving it was the wrong pick. It remains to be seen if it's a horribly wrong pick or not. But how any of you can watch what Sammy's doing in Buffalo and not at least shake your head thinking wow that could have been for us...I don't know what game you're watching. It's not just the Jets game either. Kid is making spectacular catches. If you think Hoyers thrown some shit balls this year, you should see some of the catches that Watkins has reeled in. NO cleveland receiver makes those catches, not Gordon not anybody. We've been screaming at our WR's for years for dropping balls that were thrown right at their sternum.....another reason why last offseason we needed to look WR talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall. I'm not dumping on Gilbert. Saying Watkins is so far outperforming Gilbert by a vast sum is a completely accurate statement. Never said I don't think Gilbert won't turn out. Just said Watkins was a no brainer at a position we were lost at with Gordons problems. Nothing that's been offered up so far in this thread has even remotely refuted that logic. IN any case i thought I nominated you to stfu. What happened to you shutting the fuck up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 No. Wish you had never started really. And, yes, the road to the playoffs is 100% through the draft. It's proven over and over and over again. To bad Buff wont be participating in picking any of the top talent next year. And, to beat a dead horse, that heap of bad draft picks wasn't made by this FO. So the constant arguments about our OLD FO have zero bearing on the PRESENT . Yeah too bad for Buf they may have landed a better receiver than JG when both their careers are said and done. I think they're ok with it. I really do. And the the road to playoffs is 100% through smart management of personnel....thorugh the draft and FA. It's proven over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I'm not dumping on Gilbert. Saying Watkins is so far outperforming Gilbert by a vast sum is a completely accurate statement. Never said I don't think Gilbert won't turn out. Just said Watkins was a no brainer at a position we were lost at with Gordons problems. ***************************************************** No, you just want to hump Watkins, and he isn't in town and you are forever bee-acced and bellyaching about him. If Watkins was such a "no-brainer", then you ignore his maturity. What is the POINT about bitching about the Browns making different moves? Dumbass. He wasn't the right guy for the Browns: From his profile that was on NFL.COM " WEAKNESSES Production results heavily from a gimmicky offense. Routes could use some more polish. Does not consistently work the middle of the field. Could improve field awareness. Is still immature and could require some time to acclimate to an NFL playbook. Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 IN any case i thought I nominated you to stfu. What happened to you shutting the fuck up? Cleve ****************************************************************** I lost the election. You won, high school "wants to hump sammy watkins" blowhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts." Oh he was a suspect punt returner in college? Fuck my ass i didn't know. Never mind this whole we missed on Watkins thing, clearly we didn't. My god can you imagine him coming in here and ruining our spectacular special teams play this year? Fuck he would have ruined us. We'd be lucky to be 1-6 right now with an asshole like that on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". You can say "it depends on the WR", but that complicates the discussion beyond hope. As does the "draft" analogy as it implies diminishing skills with each successive pick. The discussion is around weighting of relative value of 22 positions... 25, if you count STs. Stay generic and then you can say "where you would rank your WRs". Plural because you have to pick 2 and I doubt most folk would go back to back. OK sure, if you're a "teams are built from the inside out" guy - and the more I see what a dominant OL can do to a team, the more I'm leaning that way - then pick up more linemen higher up. But in your scenario, where do you draft a WR? Assuming you pick up a QB before WR, you also get a DL or two, and OL or two, you're still picking WR at best 6th. First on Offense would be: QB then LT and C... FB would be last. First on D: ILB then SS and FS. WR might not be top ten... but would definitely not be last. Anyway... whole notha thread on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I really hate that the Bills are doing so good this year. The same way I felt about the Colts last year. We keep trading down with this teams that blow up, of course, Indy has Luck, who should have been ours. Indy tanked purposely and should have been penalized their first rounder for that shit. But anyways, it's what it is. I was hoping for a top ten pick from the Bills but there is really good talent throughout the first round, depending on what you need. I was thinking a standout FS, but Gipson has been playing light's out this last year and a half, so maybe start looking into a SS to replace Whitner down the road, start grooming now, he's not going to live forever. I don't mean throw a first-rounder at a project future probowler, or maybe I do?, but if we do it's a good problem to have, we have so much talent right now, I'm surprised you guys aren't more excited. Two first rounders and no really GLARING needs to date. Another probowl G? What would you change about the D? They are looking pretty good out there, even with the injuries... We really need a kicker, for real though, first round??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Gilbert >>> Watkins. How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch. You know what else all those star receivers have in common? Zero super bowl rings. Dez may get one this year... because his role has been diminished. WR is nothing but a shiny hood ornament. OL makes the offense go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Gilbert >>> Watkins. How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch. This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant, assbackward, hillbilly toothed arguments I've seen here. Sammy Watkins very well may win rookie of the year if he keeps it up and is responsible for Buffalo's success with 2 hack QB's. Watkins currently averages 8 catches a game for 15.5 YPC while getting double teamed in certain occasions. To say he does nothing makes you look like a Retarded fucking asshole. Gilbert until the past 2 weeks has been demoted and only been on the field in certain situations. (Kwan Williams was playing over him) and even Mike Pettine said he wasn't ready. GILBERT DOES NOT HAVE A KEY ROLE EVERY PLAY. Joe Haden and Skrine our the 2 key corners and Gilbert is starting to see more action. I like that Gilbert is improving but you're a misinformed doofus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant, assbackward, hillbilly toothed arguments I've seen here. Sammy Watkins very well may win rookie of the year if he keeps it up and is responsible for Buffalo's success with 2 hack QB's. Watkins currently averages 8 catches a game for 15.5 YPC while getting double teamed in certain occasions. To say he does nothing makes you look like a Retarded fucking asshole. Gilbert until the past 2 weeks has been demoted and only been on the field in certain situations. (Kwan Williams was playing over him) and even Mike Pettine said he wasn't ready. GILBERT DOES NOT HAVE A KEY ROLE EVERY PLAY. Joe Haden and Skrine our the 2 key corners and Gilbert is starting to see more action. I like that Gilbert is improving but you're a misinformed doofus Maybe he didn't say it in the best way, but I think all he meant was CB is a much more important position than WR overall - IE secondary play makes a bigger difference than WR play in determining the outcome of most games. Also, it's a lot harder to get good CB play especially with modern NFL rules favoring the WR so much, whereas finding good WR talent isn't nearly as hard to do. If Gilbert turns into a pro bowl level talent in the next couple years, make sure someone brings this thread back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know that CB is more important than receiver but he said Gilbert > Watkins which is far from reality. I want Gilbert to get better and better but Sammy Watkins is far superior at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know that CB is more important than receiver but he said Gilbert > Watkins which is far from reality. I want Gilbert to get better and better but Sammy Watkins is far superior at this point. Yea, but comparing a CB to a WR isn't the best though. We got our guy, let's let him play. Little rookie is getting better and still has a huge upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 This conversation is still going on? Sadly, it is. If it goes on much longer I'll shut it down. Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall. You meant Fathead, Fathead. This is funny.. Whoa, somehow, you guys think draft picks get us to the playoffs. There is a dumpster fire behind our stadium, and it's filled with first round busts, second round busts, and third round busts. I'll take a star, rather than draft picks because our boat load of prime picks has sunk to the bottom of Lake Erie. Barky Mingo anyone? Shall I go on? No you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 If that's the case, why have we been shut out from the playoffs since Christ was an alter boy? We have had our share of championship building low round picks, and failed. Hence, the "factory of sadness" as we are known world wide.. It's not the pick, it's the quality of the player you are picking. Gilbert and Mansfield fit right into the factory... So you already have Gilbert pegged as a bust? 1. He isn't even halfway through his rookie season. 2. He has been showing considerable improvement over the past few weeks. 3. CB is one of the hardest positions to play. 4. You're a brain dead cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Watkins was one of a handful of consensus elite players in the 2014 draft... Watkins, Mack, Mathews, Clowney. Gilbert was one of a handful that came in with elite potential... Gilbert, Robinson, Bortles, Ebron. You can make an argument for adding a player here or there to one list or another, but that's basically it. Sadly, it is. If it goes on much longer I'll shut it down. Why? I'm learning things... e.g., Christ was a Catholic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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