bbedward Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I'm a fan of playing Hoyer. But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M. Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite. I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested) I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much. Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested) I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too muc Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing. I agree bb, but please refrain from quoting Stockboy, I just threw up in my mouth a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what (I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested) I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much. Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing. While I agree on Flacco (and Dalton and Kaepernick and Ryan and...), Flacco put up contract year numbers that clearly said, "I am worth keeping". To date discerning the $ value of Hoyer is tougher. Just another reason to keep playing as long as we are mathematically in contention. Mathematical contention is as much as anything a two-word summary of the difference between most here and the omniscient StockBoy. As for wasting time not evaluating JM... First, he has to be ready. If you put him on the field before he has both the playbook command and the ability to read D's, you are only hurting your ability to evaluate him. Learn the former in practice. Learn the latter in film sessions. Without both you are only evaluating his ability to miss plays, pull the ball down prematurely and run around... and we've already done that. When we get around to evaluating JM, if he is not "the one", then we still have an unassuming #3 on the roster who is not devoid of talent. And there will be others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 When we get around to evaluating JM, if he is not "the one", then we still have an unassuming #3 on the roster who is not devoid of talent. ....and that #3 looks a lot like the current #2. In a good way. And, to me, "someday" It would make sense for the 1 & 2 to have similar styles and capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 ....and that #3 looks a lot like the current #2. In a good way. And, to me, "someday" It would make sense for the 1 & 2 to have similar styles and capabilities I think the current system seems to be designed in a large way to emphasise the attributes that Hoyer and Manziel share, perhaps even a little bit leaning towards Manziel. A strong run game will allow a touch of read option; play action and roll-outs will get Manziel the ball in space and time, where he can make a read or two, or if it's not there, do something with his legs (A&M highlight reel style). Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't seem to be doing as much pure pocket passing as previous years. Or maybe I'm just noticing the PAP more because that's what Hoyer seems to excel on, where Weeden and Campbell sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think the current system seems to be designed in a large way to emphasise the attributes that Hoyer and Manziel share, perhaps even a little bit leaning towards Manziel. A strong run game will allow a touch of read option; play action and roll-outs will get Manziel the ball in space and time, where he can make a read or two, or if it's not there, do something with his legs (A&M highlight reel style). Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't seem to be doing as much pure pocket passing as previous years. Or maybe I'm just noticing the PAP more because that's what Hoyer seems to excel on, where Weeden and Campbell sucked. I would agree. To me, the current system is kind of a bridge or transition to the someday future more wide open JFF system. Allows Hoyer AND the players to start adapting now, while still winning games. And, in the future someday who knows when, it will just need a tweak to go to the next level, instead of starting over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think the current system seems to be designed in a large way to emphasise the attributes that Hoyer and Manziel share, perhaps even a little bit leaning towards Manziel. A strong run game will allow a touch of read option; play action and roll-outs will get Manziel the ball in space and time, where he can make a read or two, or if it's not there, do something with his legs (A&M highlight reel style). Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't seem to be doing as much pure pocket passing as previous years. Or maybe I'm just noticing the PAP more because that's what Hoyer seems to excel on, where Weeden and Campbell sucked. Pretty sure we are doing more naked boots, and in general we are certainly passing less as even this year's currently diminished ground game would have looked awesome compared to most of what we had last year. So the pocket passing is likely down, but a lot of PAP action still ends up in the pocket. Other than the pistol, which is more JM friendly, I think the formations are fairly neutral. JM is a good PA QB, but BH's skills are greater IMO. Haven't seen PA skills like Hoyer's in a Browns uniform since Sipe. But in fairness, we've been thru so many QBs I may have forgotten a couple. Dilfer's were good as were Holcomb's. And at one point Garcia's were very good, but I think those were his SF days. Wheezy made Campbell's limited PA skills look great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Just for the record one of those wins should be Weeden's. Still a nice little start..... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEPatriots Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Manziel is a complete fraud. Anyone who thinks his gimmicky nonsense is going to take the Browns to the promised land may as well start a bid to sign Tebow while they're at it. In Hoyer you have a guy who learned under Belichick and Brady and is now winning games for you. Get rid of him for a media gimmick and watch how fast you become miserable, hopeless Brown fans again (no offense) full of regrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Manziel is a complete fraud. Disagree, but even if he is, he's now our "complete fraud"... so tread carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm a fan of playing Hoyer. But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M. Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite. Flacco isn't worth Flacco money. The Ravens handing that jackass a contract of that magnitude made me smile from ear to ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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