calfoxwc Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 And he said that the American people are stupid. Which refers to the dems in congress that railroaded this farce on us. And, which refers to the people who voted for Obamao, believing he was the post-partisan, post-racial, pro-Constitution, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-transparency,,,, etc etc etc etc etc man with a magic twanger who would made terrorists like us and make us "more respected in the world"... really, really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 As of right now, the ACA is saving safety net hospitals a significant chunk of money. Furthermore, it's putting lots of the money towards the patient-centered model of healthcare (PCMH) which is shifting how we perceive primary care. Hospital-based care has been driving healthcare for a century, and as it turns out, the majority of healthcare costs are caused by a very small number of patients. Atul Gawande, MD, has an excellent piece in the New Yorker where he discusses these patients, and how house calls are making a comeback to address this issue. The PCMH is going to result in healthcare providers coming to the patient for preventative care instead of these patients only being treated when they come into the ER with a high cost medical emergency. These programs are relatively new, ~5ish years or so, and we'll see how they shake out over the next few decades. The issues with the ACA that I've come across in the medical community stems mostly from physicians in the middle of their careers who had to change the system they've developed over the past 20, 30, 40 years. Now electronic medical records are almost universal, and there are certain (seemingly arbitrary) hoops that must be jumped in order to code certain diagnoses. The other big issue is the implementation of a quality based compensation for physicians - the algorithm that they're going to use to score quality of care is not at all clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I just received notification from my Obamacare provider that I was forced on to that my 2015 premium would be going up $190 a month.. FUCK OBAMA!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yep. And worse, the tax penalty for NOT having insurance is going to start hitting millions. After all this, about ten million folks won't have insurance? So, taxing folks who can't afford insurance, does what exactly, to get them insurance. It was always a political scam from the gitgo. And they lied and lied about it, giving woodypeckerhead, and plenty of other nitwilly arrogant wonks a very red face about now. Cept they won't admit it, they're locked in permanently to being totally soaked in Egypt.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/another-rude-obamacare-surprise-awaits-182039738.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 We're getting older, and they know it would be cheaper for us to pay the fine and we'd be off the books.. To say that I dislike the PC O SHIT smelling up our White House at present would be a massive understatement .. I'm sure plenty of others are getting the same notifications, or will be soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I haven't checked back here for a bit but wanted to clarify a couple things. Die hard yes it is like auto insurance. I believe the Supreme Court in a split decision decided to classify it as a tax in order to let the constitutional "expert" in chief save face and leave the plan in place even While underscoring the idea that he was completely wrong on the constitutionality. (remember he contended it wasn't a tax and was constitutional) Even if it is a tax it's a punitive tax. I have no problem forcing people to chip in. Especially if the option is go along without insurance and then suck off the public tit when you get sick. Another option would be to make it even more like auto insurance. If you don't buy auto insurance and you wreck your car you can't take it to the body shop and get it fixed for free. There is no emergency room filled with mechanics. As with Social Security I think one should be allowed to opt out but should at least show proof of some sort of investment or agree 2 not go on the dole when they get old. Also Cal with graduated payment structures there is nobody that can't afford it. Anybody that destitute is on Medicaid in the first place. We are talking about people who haven't been sick for a while and just decide to spend the money on more fun items. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Of course the comparison with auto insurance ends when you start looking at third party involvement. In the UK (and I assume the US?) it's mandatory to have motor insurance, for the fact that if you don't anybody you hit in an accident is fucked because they're making a claim against their own insurance through someone else's fault. That's not the same with health insurance, there's no 3rd party. Also, motor insurance is something that you can allow to play out - over the course of weeks, months or even years. Health insurance could be similar, but it could also be a very short term thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I would say the third party involved in a healthcare scenario would be the taxpayer. I certainly understand the differences but what I am saying is there is not a cunt hair of difference between a punitive tax and a fine. Also in the US you can opt out of auto insurance with a financial responsibility bond. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 why would you have to have motor insurance, if you don't drive, eh? People should be free to make their own choices. Don't want car insurance? Don't drive, then. It's the lies and flagrant contradictions about Obamaocare that is so troubling. It's a farce. Ten million still don't have it, and about 6 million will pay the tax...... what are they going to do? Fine them for not paying the med insurance tax? Or, take their homes and put them out into the street? Say, why not just throw all those millions who can't afford, or refuse to pay, into the pokey. That should save our country money.....eh...no, it won't. Crap. All the gov had to do, was to offer a subsidized, low cost insurance for those folks who don't have it. That's all. But interfering with our entire medical infrastructure was extremely stupid and corrupt and manipulative...and 100 percent political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 If you don't have a car, you don't pay car insurance. Simple. If you have a car, you can declare it 'off the road' - never used - and not pay car insurance. To go with the analogy, if you don't have health, don't get health insurance? So, be dead, and you won't have to pay? I'm not saying Obamacare is the best thing - I don't know enough about it. All I can do is tell you the state of affairs over here. We pay 12% 'National Insurance' - basically a tax. This is used to pay for the health care system, as well as benefits and pensions. You are subsequently free to take out what's known as 'private health care' insurance - often offered as a perk by companies. You used this when you go the doctor, and they refer you to a specialist, you get a 'top of the profession' specialist and skip the waiting times, because it's all privatised. Most people don't actually pay for private health care insurance themselves, but get it as a free perk from their employer, or as an optional taxable benefit (like me). For most, national insurance has been around so long (1911), people don't even think of it as a thing, it's just money you don't see until you need something from it, like health care, benefits or, if you're old enough, a pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I see no comparison to Auto Insurance at all. If you don't have auto insurance, you don't pay a fine to the IRS, you just get a ticket and your license suspended. If you decide to forgo the health care and just pay the fine, you can still go to the local er and get treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I see no comparison to Auto Insurance at all. If you don't have auto insurance, you don't pay a fine to the IRS, you just get a ticket and your license suspended. If you decide to forgo the health care and just pay the fine, you can still go to the local er and get treated. The only comparison is that both are mandatory for people that own cars/are alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 if you don't drive a car you don't have to have auto insurance because you can't have an accident in your car. You are going to get sick and you are going to need medical attention. Sorry that's the way it goes. And like I said if someone agrees to never ever see a doctor or to prove that they are financially capable of paying the bills when the situation arises fine. But that's Ted Kennedy, not us. And like I said if you want to sign a legally binding contract prohibiting you from receiving medical care that you can't pay for fine. I think when the time comes you would change your mind. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But Obamaocare intrudes dramatically on the private med insurance industry, and some have even admitted, eliminate it, over time. It doesn't encourage competition, it stifles it, and eliminates it. "Single payer" is what they wanted all along. And they lied to get the whole process started. It must be repealed, at least in several areas. How the hell anybody believed it would lower premiums is beyond me, except for the ignorant, willing big government/free ride groupies like woodypeckerhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 if you don't drive a car you don't have to have auto insurance because you can't have an accident in your car. You are going to get sick and you are going to need medical attention. Sorry that's the way it goes. And like I said if someone agrees to never ever see a doctor or to prove that they are financially capable of paying the bills when the situation arises fine. But that's Ted Kennedy, not us. And like I said if you want to sign a legally binding contract prohibiting you from receiving medical care that you can't pay for fine. I think when the time comes you would change your mind. WSS Hospitals have to treat people whether they have insurance or not. So it still isn't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But of course that's not what I'm arguing for or against. I take it for granted that single payer is the goal for most on the left. Also even those on the right don't seem to mind some sort of subsidies directed toward health care for the truly poor. I am merely saying that everyone who will use the medical system, which is everyone, should pay something. If it comes out of their pocket it will be noticed a lot more easily than if it just comes out of the tax slush fund which it is now. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Cal will not like this, but I think a National Health Insurance would be better then what we have now. I just started to use the VA and it is great so far. Everything is computerized. I need lab tests they are done in the same place, and ordered via computer, same for appointments, etc. Everything is put into my record electronically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think everybody's Medical records should be computerized die hard. It is a whole lot easier if your doctor should have a complete medical history at his fingertips. And I've heard from others who use the VA that it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last couple decades. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think everybody's Medical records should be computerized die hard. It is a whole lot easier if your doctor should have a complete medical history at his fingertips. And I've heard from others who use the VA that it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last couple decades. WSS The Parma VA medical clinic is great. The doctors and staff all seem great. Of course, they are under heavy scrutiny by the new Department head so that probably has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 The Parma VA medical clinic is great. The doctors and staff all seem great. Of course, they are under heavy scrutiny by the new Department head so that probably has something to do with it.Well whatever the reason it's a good thing. My best pal has been an RN for decades and remembers the days when the VA hospital was a hell hole.Glad it has been cleaned up no matter who had a hand in doing it. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Medical records aren't already computerised? :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But, I do like the VA improving. I had a friend, years ago, who was a nurse at a VA hospital. He told me to never, ever go to one. The VA stuff is great. I couldn't get it, we were too affluent... But a friend was in the same boat, I told him to pursue it, because he was a Vietnam combat veteran. That makes him qualified anyways. I don't like -government- national health records. They can be hacked, and if you have some health condition, that could be used against you to embarrass you politically, exaggerated to make you disqualified for certain work, or driving, or owning a gun... unfairly... don't tell me that an obamao type regime wouldn't do it. OF course they would. Obamaocare IS a "national healthcare" system. It sucks hugely. Wrong solution to a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But, I do like the VA improving. I had a friend, years ago, who was a nurse at a VA hospital. He told me to never, ever go to one. The VA stuff is great. I couldn't get it, we were too affluent... But a friend was in the same boat, I told him to pursue it, because he was a Vietnam combat veteran. That makes him qualified anyways. I don't like -government- national health records. They can be hacked, and if you have some health condition, that could be used against you to embarrass you politically, exaggerated to make you disqualified for certain work, or driving, or owning a gun... unfairly... don't tell me that an obamao type regime wouldn't do it. OF course they would. Obamaocare IS a "national healthcare" system. It sucks hugely. Wrong solution to a real problem. I don't mean what we have now in Obama care. I mean more of what England or Japan has. Where everyone pays a set premium and is covered Nationally and everything is computerized. Why go to a PCM and get an exam, have him write you a paper order for xrays and lab work, drive 20 miles to get the lab work and xrays done. Then have to wait until it is mailed or faxed to him. Be billed by 10 different doctors for an overnight stay in the hospital. Its crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 no shit. Just yesterday in the mail I got a final notice bill from Summa and in another envelope A reimbursement of three times that amount that I had paid three times apparently to some other faction of Summa . WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Excellent points, but there is also a downside to gov healthcare. Plenty of horror stories out of Britain over very long waits. I have another friend, who wanted to go on VA insurance, but couldn't. He was involved in classified stuff, and it was tough to explain details. like where stationed, etc.. But after months of waiting, he was approved, and loves it. Cept he doesn't like the dr he's been given. He had no med insurance for a couple of years after being lay off his factory job. I wouldn't go to some national healthcare, if it was handed to me on a silver platter, free. You gets what you pays for, I reckon. Which, btw, our veterans paid a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Horror stories are very, very much the exception. I'm sure there are plenty from private healthcare providers everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Don't be so sure. In a *competitive" market - you produce or you lose out. A gov hc doesn't have to produce good results - there is zero incentive for them to do the right thing, even if it's expensive, or to pay fairly, or structure their system to be efficient. I don't know aspect of our gov that is efficient. BTW, Romneycare in Mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Horror stories are very, very much the exception. I'm sure there are plenty from private healthcare providers everywhere. probably horror stories everywhere about every profession. Here's the point. A Subaru will get you from point A to point B so will a Rolls Royce. If they were both free which one would you take? I think our system is extraordinary. I can call one of the worlds top cardiac teams or retinal teams in the world and see them today or tomorrow at the latest. I think that's great. I pay a lot for that service. I have never lived in jolly old England but I've spent a great deal of time in Canada. Would I trade my health care for theirs? Not a chance. But it is basically free even though the taxes are steep. And I suppose if I were born and raised there that would be the norm and I'd be okay with it. I suppose it's all relative. If you were born and raised in Uganda and didn't get slaughtered or eaten or raped before you are 13 you count your blessings. Here in America we tend to take that for granted... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 People only really go in to medicine if they care about helping people. It may sound cliché, but doctors and nurses want to help people, so there's not really a drop off in care. I personally have had nothing but top class treatment on the NHS. You don't get the bells and whistles - private room, fresh flowers and all the rest, but you get what matters. And maybe MRSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 People only really go in to medicine if they care about helping people. It may sound cliché, but doctors and nurses want to help people, so there's not really a drop off in care. I personally have had nothing but top class treatment on the NHS. You don't get the bells and whistles - private room, fresh flowers and all the rest, but you get what matters. And maybe MRSA. maybe I wasn't clear but I wasn't speaking any ill of Canadian doctors and nurses. I will give you an example. The hospital in Hamilton Ontario, a real city not some tiny moose hunting station up north, had no doctor on premises on the weekend. None. I'm sure there are Canadian hospital in some of the large metropolitan areas that would be considered almost as good as the ones here. Plus I've heard plenty of stories including from my heart catheterization doctor who came from Toronto about the waiting lists. It's not that my procedure we have been done in a shoddy manner in Toronto but I'd have waited until I were an invalid or dead in his words. And frankly I think many Americans tend to run to the doctor for stuff that doesn't really require medical attention. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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