Hoyer's best game.... And no TDs thrown

[Tour2ma]

I even read an article yesterday that stated there are rumblings in the front office by personnel who want to see Manziel so they know what they have.

I feel like I have heard that before somewhere...

[The Italian DawgPound]

The first decent thing ive heard on Mike& Mike

Hoyer is 9-3 starting for Browns

All other Qbs during that time....1-12

Same team...same players....why do people still not see it? The dude can play ball. Crisp, timely throws, no mistakes...can you frame it any clearer?

The answer is NO.

[The Italian DawgPound]

We hope. They keep making excuses as to why there is no extension.

 

I even read an article yesterday that stated there are rumblings in the front office by personnel who want to see Manziel so they know what they have. REALLY??? I mean, Hoyer is playing balls to the wall, in control of an offense that has been piece mealed together due to injuries and suspensions, and is given the Browns the most stabilizing force they have had since Bernie, and yet .... they want to see Manziel? No extension talks? No love for the kid from Cleveland? Farmer just wants to ho-hum his way around the topic. Come on. Wake the fuck up. Is Brian exciting? Running around playing school yard ball? Does he play Hail Mary ball? No, no, and no. But he wins games and that's all that matters.

 

2 beat downs of division rivals in the SAME SEASON, one on the road ... for the first time since arguably the Canton Bulldog days ( Sorry, it just seems that long ), and they're dicking around at not showing Brian the love he deserves.

 

And I'm not saying he deserves 10 years, $150 million. I'm just saying commit to the guy. Name him the starter. Sign him to an extension. If Manziel pouts, get Jerry Jones on the phone, fleece him 1st round draft pick, and ship Johnny Fuckin' Football's ass to Cowtown.

On Thursday night in Cincy Hoyer was the most exciting QB I've seen since the internet era (and being on the other side of the pond this means "since I can see the Browns on a regular basis"). If we don't keep him we make a huge mistake. Then if we bump into the next Brady we'll see what happens, but for the time being there's no other alternative to a QB that proved he can succesfully run a team with no big names.

[The Italian DawgPound]

Nothing against Manziel, but considering benching Hoyer to put him in makes no sense at all.

[LogicIsForSquares]

You resign the sure thing and let Johnny learn. If he shows over time to be of at least equal quality to Hoyer, you move on to the younger arm. I don't get the anxiety by some over not seeing Johnny this year. Be thankful the team has one of the easiest problems in the NFL.

[tiamat63]

^^^ this. The great thing about the rookie slotting system is that it no longer kills the salary cap for a team to have these young guns on roster.

 

I fully expect Hoyer would sign for a considerable hometown discount and if Johnny can't best him in practice, camp and during the off season then what's the point of "seeing what you have?"

 

The only concern I would have is a diminishing return. Invested a 1st round pick into Foosball, if he can't pass Hoyer on the depth chart then it will be difficult getting much in return. Even from Jerrah...

[Comeonman]

You resign the sure thing and let Johnny learn. If he shows over time to be of at least equal quality to Hoyer, you move on to the younger arm. I don't get the anxiety by some over not seeing Johnny this year. Be thankful the team has one of the easiest problems in the NFL.

One of the easiest problems, which had been the biggest problem BY FAR this team has had since Kosar

[Comeonman]

^^^ this. The great thing about the rookie slotting system is that it no longer kills the salary cap for a team to have these young guns on roster.

 

I fully expect Hoyer would sign for a considerable hometown discount and if Johnny can't best him in practice, camp and during the off season then what's the point of "seeing what you have?"

 

The only concern I would have is a diminishing return. Invested a 1st round pick into Foosball, if he can't pass Hoyer on the depth chart then it will be difficult getting much in return. Even from Jerrah...

I gotta disagree with you on the hometown discount. From what we have heard so far from him and his agent, I think he's gonna make us pay

[Tour2ma]

I think the hometown discount comes in the following form: "Brian, where in this league is there a better fit for you?"

[Westside Steve]

I gotta disagree with you on the hometown discount. From what we have heard so far from him and his agent, I think he's gonna make us pay

And I would say if he had been carrying the team on his back that would be a wise decision. If, in fact, it's a team effort and maybe the team is winning in spite of less than stellar performance at the position...

 

Not bad, just less than stellar.

 

I would expect a hometown discount. I understand why he might go for it but if so, he doesn't deserve hometown extra support.

 

WSS

[tiamat63]

I think Brian would have no issue with a 3 year team friendly contract, 4th year option, that gives him a great initial signing bonus, keeps the base salary reasonable with a couple things that would boost his pay if

certain conditions are met.

[cdl15]

It's not hard. Transition Tag his Ass with a poison pill.

[upper lip]

Hoyer is already 29 and this is his first chance to make real nfl money. He absolutely should be squeezing out every penny he can get.

[Frenchie]

I think Brian would have no issue with a 3 year team friendly contract, 4th year option, that gives him a great initial signing bonus, keeps the base salary reasonable with a couple things that would boost his pay if

certain conditions are met.

 

I agree!

[Tour2ma]

I think Brian would have no issue with a 3 year team friendly contract, 4th year option, that gives him a great initial signing bonus, keeps the base salary reasonable with a couple things that would boost his pay if certain conditions are met.

I thought the same about an incentives based contract just a couple weeks ago, but not sure now. Ditto on a 3-year. BH has to be thinking he is earning a decent chunk of job security. He'll more and more likely want the contract to reflect that.

 

Front loaded is very likely going to be part of any deal with us. And guarantees are only going higher.

 

It's not hard. Transition Tag his Ass with a poison pill.

Could well be the route we end up going.

[NEPatriots]

Hoyer will take the best contract he's offered, and rightfully so.

 

I'm sure the kid would love nothing more than to be the franchise quarterback for his hometown team, but if Cleveland low balls him so they can `see what Johnny has` and someone else offers him compensation for what he's been doing on the field, you lose Hoyer.

 

I'm not a college football person, but I used to watch Johnny games just because he was entertaining as hell, but IMO anyone who thinks that will translate to pro ball is crazy.

Time and time again I saw Johnny running around the back field for thirty seconds, avoiding pass rushers with his ninja skills, and then hitting a WR returning to the LOS with a ball thrown way too high the receiver had to jump for.

 

Two things:

 

1. That will get WR's killed in the NFL.

 

2. His ninjitsu won't work in the NFL. Pro defenders WILL catch him and probably crush him awkwardly.

 

Johnny Football as a starter anywhere will be a bust. A flash in the pan gimmick with no long term success.

 

Does anyone really think Johnny's schtick would work against a top caliber defense like 2013 Seattle or a 2014 Belichick scheme?

 

Yeah, he could look okay maybe against Jag, bottom feeder defenses (perhaps) but his routine has a low ceiling when you get into play off tier defenses.

[Tour2ma]

Some here see the A&M JM ruling the NFL, but most of us aren't in that bunch.

 

Of the rest of us, a few think as you do, that he's never going to make it in the NFL, but most of the rest aren't in that bunch either.

 

Most of us think he's an immature, undisciplined kid who got by on raw athleticism at A&M, but has the tools to make it if he matures. That he has been humbled behind a QB inferior in every way other than NFL IQ and work ethic should be working miracles... if anything can.

[miktoxic]

if farmer fucks around and low balls hoyer or franchise tags his ass i think it'll be his first big mistake, besides draft manziel at #22.

 

if we hadn't drafted manziel would we be having this discussion?

[bbedward]

if farmer fucks around and low balls hoyer or franchise tags his ass i think it'll be his first big mistake, besides draft manziel at #22.

 

if we hadn't drafted manziel would we be having this discussion?

There is no discussion. We keep winning, we're keeping Hoyer and there is no QB competition at camp next year.

 

That isn't how the NFL works, just because you draft a guy 1st round it doesn't mean you're obligated to do anything.

 

As others have said, we can reach a team friendly agreement with Hoyer, and everyone would he happy

[tiamat63]

Hoyer will take the best contract he's offered, and rightfully so.

 

I'm sure the kid would love nothing more than to be the franchise quarterback for his hometown team, but if Cleveland low balls him so they can `see what Johnny has` and someone else offers him compensation for what he's been doing on the field, you lose Hoyer.

 

I'm not a college football person, but I used to watch Johnny games just because he was entertaining as hell, but IMO anyone who thinks that will translate to pro ball is crazy.

Time and time again I saw Johnny running around the back field for thirty seconds, avoiding pass rushers with his ninja skills, and then hitting a WR returning to the LOS with a ball thrown way too high the receiver had to jump for.

 

Two things:

 

1. That will get WR's killed in the NFL.

 

2. His ninjitsu won't work in the NFL. Pro defenders WILL catch him and probably crush him awkwardly.

 

Johnny Football as a starter anywhere will be a bust. A flash in the pan gimmick with no long term success.

 

Does anyone really think Johnny's schtick would work against a top caliber defense like 2013 Seattle or a 2014 Belichick scheme?

 

Yeah, he could look okay maybe against Jag, bottom feeder defenses (perhaps) but his routine has a low ceiling when you get into play off tier defenses.

 

Many of us see JM in a Russell Wilson role. The rollouts, sprint out passing and the designed looks to utilize his feet. However Wilson does have a bit more patience in the pocket and better internal clock.

Its very possible he could end up succeeding at those levels in which case, as much as I do love Hoyer - the offense would be more dangerous for it.

 

As for working against top tier defenses. Its clear very little worked against the 13' Hawks and the jury is still out on the 14' Pats. They have moments of greatness combined with great mental lapses.

Don't be so quick to put them up there with an all time defense like Seattle's unit was last season.

[calfoxwc]

On the flip side, Manziel certainly has talent. It will be interesting to

see if he grows up and learns a ton of stuff from Hoyer.

 

I have soooomuch respect for Farmer and co.... that whatever decisions

they make about the future.... I'm not going to question them one bit.

 

and, that sentiment hasn't existed for many, many years.

[miktoxic]

Something will have to give. Both can not and will not coexist. Two totally different games and two potentially different offenses for each player, so a choice will have to be made.

 

I don't see Manziel surviving a half of a season in the NFL without major injury. He will be carted off the field in butcher paper. Then what?

Another Brandon Weeden waiting?

 

Sign Hoyer, develop a similar QB for the bench, and trade Manziel to Dallas for another high draft choice. There, he will insure that we can all enjoy the Cowboys losing again, and it will make Cleveland highly relevant for years to come.

 

i agree with everything you said, but that's just our opinion. who knows what the browns really have in manziel? all i know is you don't screw around and play chicken with a guy who has the best QB rating the browns have seen since some guy named otto graham.

 

people won't agree but i'd trade manziel now while his stock is still somewhat high. there's plenty of QBs coming out next year that prob have a better feel for the pro game and are better suited for what offense we're running now. besides what happens if he has another off-season like he did this year? is everyone ready to ride the JF fuckup train again? how long is he going to sit and behave when he sees all his endorsement deals dwindling because he's not starting?

[Westside Steve]

On the flip side it takes a quarterback a while to get comfortable in the pros. So whenever Johnny starts there will be an adjustment.

 

And for the Buffalo guy, you think the difference between the Buffalo Bills and the Super Bowl is Brian Hoyer?

 

Well if anyone else shares your opinion that will make him a very valuable commodity.

 

WSS

[miktoxic]

If not, expect the Bills to be all over Brian Hoyer..

 

along with about 6 other teams.

 

if shanahan gets a HC gig and goes to a withering team in need of a QB expect him to try and take hoyer with him, if available.

[calfoxwc]

Calfox,

Doe he?
This isn't college ball with lackluster talent on opposing defenses to play chicken with. His pocket ability is what will make him an effective NFL quarterback.
The NFL is a different league, even after the Favre, Young years. Defenses are much faster. If QBs do not have two step pocket presence like Brady or Big Ben to allow the play to develop, scrambling QBs kill their team, their coaches and themselves.

I'm betting Farmer is simply looking for a number, and will sign Hoyer.
If not, expect the Bills to be all over Brian Hoyer..

*********************************************************************

I honestly didn't think so, which made it fun to argue with Canton Mike about it on the phone ! But, after watching

him play a few plays.... he does see the field, under duress and on the move, even. And, he is extremely mobile,

and elusive. And, he's tough and has no fear, and he's intense about football, and winning.

 

Those are his raw skills. He has serious growing up to do, into the role as a leader on the team. But he

also has time to learn the NFL, and leadership, and to mature.... and he has an excellent role model in

Hoyer. The one qb I wanted over Manziel in the draft, was drafted by the Patriots. We'll see about Manziel.

 

But the kid is also very, very smart. Who knows if he'll develop into the qb we want him to be? Nobody, I reckon.

 

I just believe I was wrong about Manziel, after all is said and done in the draft. But it really was fun aggravating

Canton Mike with arguing that JM's skills and maturity made for a bad draft pick..... lol

[calfoxwc]

The Browns won't undercut Hoyer, this team means too much to him, and he

means too much to the team. Pay the man, but Hoyer isn't the kind of knuckehead

to hurt his team with a gigantic contract - that would just make him a cap casualty

one day, maybe.

He loves being qb of the Browns, his team, and Farmer is a brilliant GM. No problem.

[Tour2ma]

Many of us see JM in a Russell Wilson role. The rollouts, sprint out passing and the designed looks to utilize his feet. However Wilson does have a bit more patience in the pocket and better internal clock.

"A bit more"? Not to mention Russell's superior sense of self preservation.

 

Something will have to give. Both can not and will not coexist. Two totally different games and two potentially different offenses for each player, so a choice will have to be made.

 

I don't see Manziel surviving a half of a season in the NFL without major injury. He will be carted off the field in butcher paper. Then what?

Johnny has to harness his competitive nature... channel it and reduce his exposure to harm. Many of us have been saying that since before the draft. It's your one valid point.

 

As for the rest... totally different offenses? How so? You need to make your case. Adding a read option package does not a totally different offense make.

 

if shanahan gets a HC gig and goes to a withering team in need of a QB expect him to try and take hoyer with him, if available.

Just like he did Cousins?

[Tour2ma]

him play a few plays.... he does see the field, under duress and on the move, even. And, he is extremely mobile,and elusive. And, he's tough and has no fear, and he's intense about football, and winning.

Seeing the field is unfortunately not the same thing as reading a defense, but it is a necessary step towards learning how to read.

 

No fear plus intensity, AKA competitiveness, is the deadly recipe and most of the reason JM concerns me.

[Canton Mike]

I'll trust Farmer to do the right thing with Hoyer & I do NOT believe it will be "franchise money". He still has less than a year experience as a starter & has been good but not great. I am fine with Hoyer, but I am not yet ready to ordain him (after 12 NFL starts) OR Johnny (with none) as "the second coming" nor write either of them off. I chose to allow the experts to make the decision, & I will continue to support their decisions. They're doing fine thus far & I refuse to speculate on who will be injured & when. Keep in mind that our injured reserve doesn't have a single player under 222 lbs on it, so is size REALLY the determining factor as to a player's durability? It's a "crap shoot" & I'm not gonna speculate to that degree.

 

Mike

[calfoxwc]

Posted Today, 12:27 PM

I'll trust Farmer to do the right thing with Hoyer & I do NOT believe it will be "franchise money". He still has less than a year experience as a starter & has been good but not great. I am fine with Hoyer, but I am not yet ready to ordain him (after 12 NFL starts) OR Johnny (with none) as "the second coming" nor write either of them off. I chose to allow the experts to make the decision, & I will continue to support their decisions. They're doing fine thus far & I refuse to speculate on who will be injured & when. Keep in mind that our injured reserve doesn't have a single player under 222 lbs on it, so is size REALLY the determining factor as to a player's durability? It's a "crap shoot" & I'm not gonna speculate to that degree.

 

Mike

***********************************************

I DISAGREE DAMMIT !!!!!