Hoyer's best game.... And no TDs thrown

[Canton Mike]

 

Posted Today, 12:27 PM

I'll trust Farmer to do the right thing with Hoyer & I do NOT believe it will be "franchise money". He still has less than a year experience as a starter & has been good but not great. I am fine with Hoyer, but I am not yet ready to ordain him (after 12 NFL starts) OR Johnny (with none) as "the second coming" nor write either of them off. I chose to allow the experts to make the decision, & I will continue to support their decisions. They're doing fine thus far & I refuse to speculate on who will be injured & when. Keep in mind that our injured reserve doesn't have a single player under 222 lbs on it, so is size REALLY the determining factor as to a player's durability? It's a "crap shoot" & I'm not gonna speculate to that degree.

 

Mike

***********************************************

I DISAGREE DAMMIT !!!!!

 

 

You're just a cranky old fart, aren't ya?

 

Mike

[calfoxwc]

Make that both of us... you're older.

[Canton Mike]

Make that both of us... you're older.

 

Ok, you're a cranky punk kid!

[Kvoethe]

"A bit more"? Not to mention Russell's superior sense of self preservation. Johnny has to harness his competitive nature... channel it and reduce his exposure to harm. Many of us have been saying that since before the draft. It's your one valid point.As for the rest... totally different offenses? How so? You need to make your case. Adding a read option package does not a totally different offense make. Just like he did Cousins?

Cousins had alot more good games than bad to his credit.

[hoorta]

First, I admit that I have been on this forum for a few weeks having some fun with my brownie counterparts.

 

Let's get real.

If you guys even think about letting Brian Hoyer walk, it'll be the next biggest mistake since bill bellicheat.

This guy can play the middle of the field with the best of them, and he's only going to get better.

Maziel, for all of this scrambling BS will not be as consistent as Hoyer. Don't do it Cleveland.

Keep johnny on the bench. It will be the best thing for him also.

 

I do think you ran into a team that was masquerading, and you guys ripped that mask off and stomped on it...

Great job.

 

I agree, but Hoyer and his agent have to be realistic. I hope they realize it was flat out stupid of the Bengals to ink an Andy Dalton contract. Caution is also advised in the light of the Cardinals giving Palmer a $50 million extension, and then the guy promptly blows out his knee. I doubt the Rams are happy about paying millions for Sam Bradford's rehab.

 

I think the hometown discount comes in the following form: "Brian, where in this league is there a better fit for you?"

 

Nowhere, Tour. To early to say the P word, but if Hoyer takes us there, the asking price is going to be mighty steep, I'm afraid.

 

Calfox,

 

Doe he?

This isn't college ball with lackluster talent on opposing defenses to play chicken with. His pocket ability is what will make him an effective NFL quarterback.

The NFL is a different league, even after the Favre, Young years. Defenses are much faster. If QBs do not have two step pocket presence like Brady or Big Ben to allow the play to develop, scrambling QBs kill their team, their coaches and themselves.

 

I'm betting Farmer is simply looking for a number, and will sign Hoyer.

If not, expect the Bills to be all over Brian Hoyer..

 

The Bills, and about 6 other teams. If he keeps on winning, Hoyer will be the hottest FA on the market 2015. If the Browns don't pay him, some other team certainly will. Farmer is smart enough to realize this. Or Framer will prove to be the biggest GM genius in history, letting Hoyer walk- just like the 49ers did with Joe Montana, because they trusted Steve Young was going to get the job done.

[bbedward]

If Hoyer keeps playing at his current level, Farmer won't have options. Hoyer will command a contract starting around 10-12 million. Maybe much more. Hoyer will be smart enough to test the waters, and they will be friendly.

 

Cleveland, should consider this an awesome problem to have.

Nobody knows the pain of not having a decent QB like us here in Buffalo. We have everything we need to win this division, except a prior GM who wildly misfired on EJ Manuel. Hoyer will get a huge look here if you play chicken with him. Our new owner is the fourth richest man in the league, getting richer every day from gas and oil field production, and has no problem spending hundreds of millions on stuff he considers good for our community. I'm not sure why he decided to pick Buffalo, but he has....

 

BTW, I did have a huge chuckle when this board was coming down on Mike Pettine early in the season.

This guy is a total stud, and here in Buffalo, we wanted this guy as our head coach by mid season. This guy has a quiet toughness and leadership about him that attracts and commands respect by his players.

And, he's pretty damn smart..

 

Every fanbase has some crazy (and stupid) fans, sometimes exemplified in cleveland given our recent history. We haven't had a winning quarterback in 20+ years and some people think letting Hoyer walk is fine. Hoyer will stay, to a team-friendly deal that can earn him lots of money I suspect.

 

The things Hoyer has done without any major WR threats and a struggling o-line for the last 4 has been nothing short of impressive.

 

The biggest Pettine criticism was about our horrid run D, but that was exemplified by a slew of D-line injuries. D-line is getting healthy again, LB group is starting to gel - looks like a different defense than what we saw week 1.

[miktoxic]

i liked the farmer pettine hire, considering their resumes. both come from playing football. one was a great scout and one was a great defensive coach. like edward said above the only gripe i had to this point was with the defense. we were ranked pretty high last year and to switch schemes again with players playing out of their natural positions have/had people scratching their heads. with phil taylor back vs. cinci and the team gelling at the right time they finally looked like they should have out of the gate.

 

although i've loved everything this FO has done to this point, the fact that farmer will just let the hoyer contract go to the end of the season has me baffled. either hoyer plays us into the playoffs and his price skyrockets or we finish 4-5 games better than we have in 7 years........does that matter? we haven't seen a decent starting QB around here that's put up these #'s since kosar. that's a loooooooooong time.

 

why fuck around? you want to see what manziel has? really? if that's the reasoning behind all of this then that's strike one against farmer IMO.

[ColumbusKing]

I read Hoyer and his agent were holding out till the end of the season, thinking they could get a better deal, but I saw that on Bleacher Report so I'm not sure how truthful it was

[Manzier]

I read Hoyer and his agent were holding out till the end of the season, thinking they could get a better deal, but I saw that on Bleacher Report so I'm not sure how truthful it was

Yep. Ive heard the same. In fact, the Browns did offer a contract this spring and Hoyer turned it down. Said he wanted to wait till the season was over.

[Tour2ma]

with phil taylor back vs. cinci and the (defense) gelling at the right time they finally looked like they should have out of the gate.

Don't see how you can say "should have" since as you point out it was a new scheme. I think in retrospect our expectations were unrealistic given the change.

 

either hoyer plays us into the playoffs and his price skyrockets or we finish 4-5 games better than we have in 7 years........does that matter?

Price-wise it may matter, but not nearly as much as it has to this point. Assuming Hoyer's camp wants a deal ASAP (not much evidence of that though), the longer the deal takes the more the FO gets to see the goods.

 

why fuck around? you want to see what manziel has? really? if that's the reasoning behind all of this then that's strike one against farmer IMO.

Again, no evidence that Manziel is the one being evaluated... so I think Farmer is still strikeless.

[miktoxic]

the elephant that brought the 3 ring circus to town?

 

i heard they're teaching it how to paint.

[Tour2ma]

i heard they're teaching it how to paint.

... by numbers...

 

After signing an extension, and after opposing defenses had another shot at his game, shutting him down became the norm, and he became a huge disappointment.

His name was Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.

Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.

Plus Ryan was holding back E.J.

 

 

As for challenges... they are completely different.

 

Manziel is Pettine's... And as mik has intimated, he's handled that quite well... breaking the young colt while steadying the exercise pony turned thoroughbred.

 

Hoyer is Farmer's Challenge.

[thenew23]

How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.

Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.

 

Bullsh**. If Hoyer is given the money he probably deserves AND is entrenched as the starting QB, he won't give a damn if Manziel continues to develop behind him. We have all the leverage with Manziel... he's on his rookie deal, not making much money. We don't have to do anything with him until the time comes where he either HAS to play b/c of injury, or we try to showcase him at the end of his contract to try and get something back in trade. There is no "Manziel Elephant" in my opinion... This offseason is all about paying Brian Hoyer whatever it takes to keep him on the Browns, while hoping to avoid an uber-inflated deal, but if we have to pay it... then so be-it...

[bbedward]

Devil's advocate.

 

Another reason Farmer is waiting could be from a lesson learned from us here in Buffalo..

We gave a journeyman a shot, and he did very, very well. His play elevated the rest of the team, we won some games from QB play we haven't seen around these parts since the 90's, and everyone thought it would be a great idea to lock him up.

After signing an extension, and after opposing defenses had another shot at his game, shutting him down became the norm, and he became a huge disappointment.

His name was Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

I'm guessing Farmer/Pettine just want to see more. Cleveland wants him, Hoyer obviously would prefer to stay in Cleveland.

The problem with all of this is some homeless dude talking to your owner, and your owner actually listening and quoting the bum.

Im sure he pushed Manziel on Farmer, and you drafted a guy who expects to start.

How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.

Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.

 

Sorry, Hoyer != Fitzpatrick

 

2009: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 4-4, 69 passer rating, more interceptions than touch downs

2010: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 4-9, 81 rating (best season?)

2011: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 6-10, 79 rating (23 interceptions)

 

He had some flashes and big games, but totally didn't prove those seasons he was a long term starter.

 

Hoyer, on the other hand:

Record: 9-3, rating of 86.5 (90 so far in 2014), 15 TD, 7 INT

 

Manziel isn't and hasn't been a problem. He isn't expressing frustration as a backup, he's studying the playbook, he's keeping his head down, he works hard in practice, the coaches and players like him - etc, etc. Hoyer hasn't indicated that he has a problem with Manziel, either. Why does everybody keep making this stuff up?

 

If it becomes a problem we can send him to Jerry for more than he's worth.

[HoundDawg]

What I have noticed about Hoyer is that the more he plays you, the better he gets against you. That's HUGE for a QB. Note the second half of the road game at Pittsburgh, comeback at TN, second game against Pittsburgh he blew them up. He played Cincinnati and beat them last year so I saw Thursday night coming. We played Baltimore hard and Brian had a very nice game against them the first time, but it was a home game. I believe that is the test for Brian. The road game at Baltimore. How he plays in that game will be the biggest game of his life. Those guys in that locker room know that and if they go out there and put on a show like they did against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh the second games they play each other. That's it. There is no longer any question who is our QB of the future. Playoffs start in the division, if hoyer proves he can dismantle those teams...on the road...all bets are off. I fully expect them to whip Cincinnati at home. These guys are playing for each other. They like their coaches, their veteran leaders on defense and Brian has them believing in him. That right there is the answer we have all waited for. How glorious for the coaching staff to be able to coach and have their guys giving them there best games. No diva hand holding, just coaching guys that believe in them and starving for that consistency.

 

I also think it could be a big test for Manziel. If he can stay focused, not bored, not create waves, jump into his job of studying the game and getting coached up,willing to wait his turn, he will have proven me wrong. There cant be a bunch of irrelevant media distraction going into next season. they already paid those dues. whether that happens, i guess is up to Manziel. what matters more, being the star of his own team, or taking the time to put inthe work to get there. That remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen if the media and Manziel's management team allow that to happen. Farmer has to say he's first round talent in public. If we need to trade him, we need the league to still be willing to give up big stuff to get him.

 

Of course, this is all predicated on how Hoyer finishes the division, but I believe.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

First, Fitz sucked moose cock, and the Bills paid him too soon, that was my point.

 

Also,

If you think for one second that johnny football will back up Brian Hoyer like a good boy....then you are nuts.

I mean really here.....Haven't you seen this 100 times before?

 

Hoyer won't be allowed the Privilege of a mediocre game without the fan base chanting for Manziel, and Manziel...and everyone else will simply be waiting for Hoyer to fail.

It's not a healthy environment any way you cut it.

 

I'm sure it can be done, but do you really want a QB controversy just as things are starting to look bright?

 

Hoyer has had multiple less-than-enthralling games in his short time here.

 

He's still the starter. We're still in first. Manziel is still on the bench.

 

 

 

 

Not sure what point you're trying to get at...but I'd say get there already.

[USFBrown]

First, Fitz sucked moose cock, and the Bills paid him too soon, that was my point.

 

Also,

If you think for one second that johnny football will back up Brian Hoyer like a good boy....then you are nuts.

I mean really here.....Haven't you seen this 100 times before?

 

Hoyer won't be allowed the Privilege of a mediocre game without the fan base chanting for Manziel, and Manziel...and everyone else will simply be waiting for Hoyer to fail.

It's not a healthy environment any way you cut it.

 

I'm sure it can be done, but do you really want a QB controversy just as things are starting to look bright?

He's already had some mediocre/bad games. Still won a few of them. No one except the manziel homos are chanting for that kid to start.

[Manzier]

Sign Hoyer, develop a similar QB for the bench, and trade Manziel to Dallas for another high draft choice.

So, the answer is to sign Hoyer now.

 

We gave a journeyman a shot.... and everyone thought it would be a great idea to lock him up.

After signing an extension......... he became a huge disappointment.

 

 

I'm guessing Farmer/Pettine just want to see more......

Because when Buffalo did it, it was a huge mistake......makes complete sense.

 

Im guessing Farmer wants to see more too. Especially since he just said so.

 

As a general rule, Im thinking Buffalo probably isn't the team Farmer wants emulate. Just a hunch.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I made my point in the post you quoted.

I'm sorry if it flew right over your head...

 

 

Oh, I thought you were actually trying to contribute to conversation.

 

 

Didn't realize you were just a dumb fucking hillbilly. My fault.