WalterWhite Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 * Brian Hoyer's Jeckyl and Hyde performances really have me wondering. Is he a franchise QB or another Flynn, Kolb, Schuab, Holcomb? I will not slam the guy because all he's been is a consummate professional but he looks so good one week and abysmal the next. * Isaah Crowell has all the talent in the world but fumbling issue usually linger throughout your career, it's troublesome. * Gabriel & Hawkins are complete studs. Can't wait to gave Gordon back. * I like Chris Kirskey, but holy fucking shit Chris Borland should have been the pick there. Could be Defensive Rookie of the Year in limited action. He's from Dayton, OH too. He's better than Mosley or Shazier by a mile. *We need to go defensive front 7 in the draft. Draft either DT, DE, OLB, or ILB. We have no scary players in the front 7 or pass rush. Who the fuck is Alfred Blue and why did we make him look like Ladanian Tomlinson? *Ryan Mallett looked ok, I know a lot of people wanted him here. Other than that, what a boring shit bag of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I am a fan of Hoyer, but here's how I see it. He's a very good qb, but not a top tier qb. If you have a good o line, and receivers who will catch the ball, he will do very well, and could take us deep in the playoffs. I don't think he is the type of qb to win a lot of shoot outs, where the defense sucks on both teams. Judging by yesterday and every game he has played, if he has time to throw the ball, he will find an open receiver. He is better than the "career backup" tag, but not really a franchise qb. He is considerably better than the others I've seen here, since '99. That includes Couch, Anderson, etc. Yesterday's game sucked in all phases, but if the o line had helped, and the receivers wouldn't have dropped so many balls, we still could have won that game. Hoyer had a terrible game...that's 2 out of 10 played. It really doesn't approach the level of stink that Andy Dalton displayed on the Thursday night game. I would take Hoyer over Dalton any day. My opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I am a fan of Hoyer, but here's how I see it. He's a very good qb, but not a top tier qb. If you have a good o line, and receivers who will catch the ball, he will do very well, and could take us deep in the playoffs. I don't think he is the type of qb to win a lot of shoot outs, where the defense sucks on both teams. Judging by yesterday and every game he has played, if he has time to throw the ball, he will find an open receiver. He is better than the "career backup" tag, but not really a franchise qb. The terms "Franchise QB", not unlike "Shutdown CB" are figments of the media but, except for a couple of exceptions, neither really exist in the real world. If every team has a "Franchise QB" then they all become "Average QBs", right. The problem with Hoyer, if fact, is JF. Hoyer has displayed splashes of being a pretty good NFL QB and has displayed flashes of being below average. OK for a young team, IMHO. However, he is at the end of his current contract and the team drafted JF in the First Round. Has Hoyer exceeded team management expectations? Can he turn his 'on again, off again' inconsistency into reliability? That is for Management to decide. If he is really where the organization believes he would be, then they don't believe his is a starter in the league. Why else draft JF? If the game was on the road yesterday, I wouldn't have been surprised to see JF inserted sometime in the 3rd Quarter. At home, however, I believe Pettine &Co. want to avoid a QB controversy while the team still has an opportunity to win the division and/or make the playoffs. People within the Pats organization LOVE Hoyer - he is a good guy with a lot of moxie and leadership skills. Is he the guy to lead the team to maturity and consistency. I don't know. But JF is lurking and moving closer and closer to the coach on Gameday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieDawg Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hoyer had a bad game - no doubt. I think it shows that he needs all aspects of the supporting cast to be functioning at least well, not stellar, to make plays. However, we got man handled big time on the line of scrimmage yesterday and our OL guys got pushed back instantly all day long, enough for Hoyer to have have foot stamped on within a split second of the snap, twice. Whilst he only got sacked twice, that flatters the OL performance from yesterday - they got owned and it is a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Being a Hoyer fan, doesn't make me a JF hater. In fact, I would love to see him play, whether after a game's outcome has already been decided, or to change things up, if we lose the next game or 2. I have to admit, I'm a little worried about inserting him, though. I've heard endless discussions regarding the qb position, to the point that I don't even care who pl;ays the position. My fear is that JF might really suck...then what? Hoyer will most likely be gone, because he will feel slighted by the change, and JF will have no value. We will be back where we've been forever.....no qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think Hoyer got his bell rung pretty early. He seemed hesitant after getting unloaded on twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I like Hoyer because of how well he's handled himself, he says the right things, and he is a professional. He had good games against Cincinnati, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Tennessee. In terms of being a "franchise QB" I'm getting a whiff of fools gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'll just throw in my opinions here rather than start a new thread. Biggest thing overall is that many, many players just played badly. Repeating myself here but I HATED how much media attention the team got this week. I don't think it's a coincidence both times the media promoted us we lost. Other things: -At this stage, especially if Dansby is down, it'll be on the offense to play better. Just accept the fact this front seven is going to give up 100+ to anyone in the backfield. Nothing will change that other than new players in the off-season -As others have stated, it's incredible to think looking back Mallett wasn't touched once. Of course this is largely because they were throwing wide open 7-10 yard passes most of the game. How many damn times can someone throw a quick out route before you stop playing 10 yards off the ball? -Just seemed like one of those games where the ball was bouncing the wrong way from start to finish. Badly missed FG, dropped pass on 4th down, dropped pass that led to an INT, dropped pick-6 by Kruger, called back kick return for holding (which was crap), shaky ref play going against the Browns (PI call at midfield was as obvious as they come), stupid running by Tate and crew on 1st downs etc. All that rarely, if ever adds up to win. -Watt is absolutely incredible. It makes yous mad during the game but sitting on it overnight just makes you appreciate how good that dude is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 We played like the worse team in every aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hoyer made 50 pass attempts. 50. Completed only 20 of those. Not sure why Shanny chose to play ball that way yesterday?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hoyer made 50 pass attempts. 50. Completed only 20 of those. Not sure why Shanny chose to play ball that way yesterday?? Probably because outside of the one run by Crowell we were averaging 1ypc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Probably because outside of the one run by Crowell we were averaging 1ypc. Ok. But supposedly Shanahan doesn't abandon the run. Ever. I don't have much to argue with as I was blasted yesterday something awful. I thought my bender at the Raiders late-afternoon game would be the farthest I'd go this year. I was wrong, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Probably because outside of the one run by Crowell we were averaging 1ypc. Exactly. Why stick with it, when it clearly wasn't working? I've heard Shanny get credit for sticking with the run when we came back against the Stools and Titans. Of course, we were down big time in both those games. And, in those situations, MOST teams would have started passing. Those games our run game was "working" and he showed patience and stuck with it. And it worked. This week there was no run game to stick with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Our defense played like a bottom 3 NFL D yesterday. I somewhat believe they are a bottom 3 defense... 150 Yds, 4+ YPC for Blue, 50 Yds, 4+ YPC for Grimes. You don't win football games giving up numbers like that. Offense not any better. Aside from 1 stat-skewing run, our rushing game was back to dead. Hoyer was inaccurate, everybody was scared of watt (In practice did they tell these guys just to lay down for Watt?) , don't understand the play calling - Run to Watt twice without a TE, then setup 3rd and 9. How about TE assist on Watt on passing plays? Hoyer is lucky to still be walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hoyer is lucky to still be walking. could it be a conspiracy ?? Maybe someone thought Watt would resolve our QB debate. (and for the slow ones, dont freak out, its just a joke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (and for the slow ones, dont freak out, its just a joke) It's sad that you needed to add this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 It's sad that you needed to add this Yeah, but we both know it was necessary. Truth. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns23 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but Kruger was pretty damn pissed after the game from the sounds of it which is good to hear. His comments were a little troubling about why they played so shitty. Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/9754/browns-forgot-who-they-were-in-loss-to-texans?ex_cid=espnapi_public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 That makes 2 starting defenders that have basically said "we weren't ready to play" ................ Very troubling to say the least. Throw in our OC & DC's terrible game plans and pathetic game day adjustments, and that warm and fuzzy feeling I had 11 days ago, has turned into fear and anguish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but Kruger was pretty damn pissed after the game from the sounds of it which is good to hear. His comments were a little troubling about why they played so shitty. Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/9754/browns-forgot-who-they-were-in-loss-to-texans?ex_cid=espnapi_public I got worried when they announced after the Bengals game, that they were off until Tuesday. 4 days off is at least one too many for a young team. As for Hoyer, he's consistently inconsistent. He's done some good things this season, so let's see how it plays out vs. Atlanta with Gordon coming back. If the offense is sluggish vs. the Falcons & @Buffalo, they may consider the switch to JF- I don't know if that is fair, but if they're 6-6, why not? Nothing to lose, unless JF says he isn't ready (like he did after camp). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 That makes 2 starting defenders that have basically said "we weren't ready to play" ................ Very troubling to say the least. Throw in our OC & DC's terrible game plans and pathetic game day adjustments, and that warm and fuzzy feeling I had 11 days ago, has turned into fear and anguish. Everybody had the same mindset you can't be hungover after a big win, 7 games left, etc. except for the team I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Kruger really shouldn't be too pissed. He played like shit yesterday and has officially reverted back to doing this jump step everytime he goes to rush the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Kruger really shouldn't be too pissed. He played like shit yesterday and has officially reverted back to doing this jump step everytime he goes to rush the passer. Also his edge containment was awful, and the same goes for Sheard. Don't know why these guys can't stay home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Only one point of observation need be made......the entire team and each individual unit sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Football is the ultimate team game. you're only as good as your weakest link. With injury and suspension we have a lot of weak links on this team at this point. We don't have a true center, we have undersized receivers ,none of whom will be seeing Canton. We have two rookie running backs and one old horse. our defense is much maligned with injury. We have not found the right guy to receive and return punts. On and on and on I can go. So why is it that the one getting slammed the most in this forum is Hoyer ? Simply because he's the QB ? He is one of the few bright spots on this team and yet he gets the most flack. If he played with Cincinnati with the talent they have they would run away with the division. if we had Andy Dalton we would probably be 1 - 9. Don't be so quick to wish for something because you just might be saddled with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but Kruger was pretty damn pissed after the game from the sounds of it which is good to hear. His comments were a little troubling about why they played so shitty. Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/9754/browns-forgot-who-they-were-in-loss-to-texans?ex_cid=espnapi_public Read it... at least Kruger got this part right... "Just the overall mental state, we could have come out with more emotion, more energy," said Kruger... "That's something I know I should have fixed early on." Leadership after the fact? So why is it that the one getting slammed the most in this forum is Hoyer ? Simply because he's the QB ? Maybe because he turned out to be the face of the franchise. Remember that debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 So why is it that the one getting slammed the most in this forum is Hoyer? Simply because he's the QB? Because he gets a bulk of the credit when we win and none of the criticism when we lose. He's had some good games this year and he's also had some bad ones. The QB will almost always take credit for the win and loss at the NFL level, especially in the eyes of the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonShorts Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 So why is it that the one getting slammed the most in this forum is Hoyer ? Simply because he's the QB ? Might have something to do with the franchise record for incompletions he set yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Read it... at least Kruger got this part right... "Just the overall mental state, we could have come out with more emotion, more energy," said Kruger... "That's something I know I should have fixed early on." Leadership after the fact? Maybe because he turned out to be the face of the franchise. Remember that debate? Yes I remember the debate, and point well taken. I actually meant to make that post in a different thread where it made more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Because he gets a bulk of the credit when we win and none of the criticism when we lose. He's had some good games this year and he's also had some bad ones. The QB will almost always take credit for the win and loss at the NFL level, especially in the eyes of the media. Hoyer's a stand up guy and will always divert the credit for wins, and take the lumps for the losses. As for the media, I've never given a damn what they think because it's all self serving on their part. The post was meant for a different thread about hypothetical QB trades. But I'm getting older and get confused. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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