Joe Scarborough

[Westside Steve]

You party of fiscal responsiblity has been turned upside by republican congressional spending along with your president... remember the social security SURPLUS.....

 

 

 

Steve the dot com collapse was BEFORE Bush jr was elected... It had NOTHING TO DO WITH CLINTON LEGISLATION

 

No shit!!!

Hey professor, the dotcom bubble burst and started ther CLINTON recession.

There goes the fake surplus.

That Bush "pulled us out of" if you need to play the hot potato game.

Geez.

 

 

Sure I am the one smoking Opium.

 

Or mixing it with your Kool Aid most likely.

Hilarious to see you boasting about a phony projected surplus and pimping Obammy's outrageous waste of borrowed dollars in the same thesis paper.

WSS

[osusev]

Cal you dont wage a "war" on a tactic. dont you get that? the "war" on drugs is a slogan just like the term"terror".

 

Yes I would have the U.S. go after CRIMINALS with Military and CIA SUPPORT like the Israeli's did after the Munich olympics.... LIKE after the OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING we used Law enforcement to hunt down the criminals. In the case of 9-11 with international criminals interpol and or aggressive CIA/Military tactics backed up at that time the WORLD community we could have assasinated them etc.

 

That would have made sense not the predetermined Iraq invasion, staying in AFghanistan and not pulling our manpower away would have been acceptable. People quoting a slogan about waging a war on a tactic.... real smart.

 

Steve I am not playing a potato game... You tried playing the partisan role trying to link Clinton's policy with the causation of the dot-com bubble and subsequent recession. You tried to talk about Bush and his supposed economic gains not me.

 

Steve YOU are the one parroting partisan political mumbo jumbo without qualifying your statements or even understanding the topic like the social security surplus. The surplus DID in fact exist and Bush and republican spending killed that plain and simple. Republican economists cant defend it so why are you trying to?

 

I like the subject of your rebuttal.. Kool aid and some sort of linkage about Obama and borrowing against the dollar. I see that you must have been reading my posts because prior I believe you were one of the individuals talking about the stimilas reallocating your money.

 

Like I have been saying for the last year the Focus FIRST should be to stop and or slow down Foreclosure and force the banks into lending credit... something that is happening. So yes I am very happy that within 2 months that is EXACTLY the direction he is going in.

 

 

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

Like I have been saying for the last year the Focus FIRST should be to stop and or slow down Foreclosure and force the banks into lending credit... something that is happening. So yes I am very happy that within 2 months that is EXACTLY the direction he is going in.

 

No way man, we should be focusing on Obama smoking weed 20 years ago. That was a joke.

 

Bush's stimulus gave billions to banks that are sitting on it.

[Westside Steve]

Steve I am not playing a potato game... You tried playing the partisan role trying to link Clinton's policy with the causation of the dot-com bubble and subsequent recession. You tried to talk about Bush and his supposed economic gains not me.

Never.

Read a little.

There was a surplus on paper when the dotcom bubble was roaring.

It burst not because of anything Clinton did.

Matter of fact his NAFTA signing boosted the economy.

But:

When the dotcom magic was gon "projected" surpluses weren't projected anymore.

Oh well.

Same with housing.

 

Steve YOU are the one parroting partisan political mumbo jumbo without qualifying your statements or even understanding the topic like the social security surplus. The surplus DID in fact exist and Bush and republican spending killed that plain and simple. Republican economists cant defend it so why are you trying to?

 

If you piss and moan about deficit spending under Bush you really should bitch (or STFU) now.

It's now worse.

A lot worse.

And the market ain't with ya.

 

Now if you can recall that I said "boy am I glad Bush is throwing money around hand over fist" you'd have a point. (I didn't BTW)

 

I like the subject of your rebuttal.. Kool aid and some sort of linkage about Obama and borrowing against the dollar. I see that you must have been reading my posts because prior I believe you were one of the individuals talking about the stimilas reallocating your money.

 

 

I say this.

Family X can't pay it's huge mortgage and most of the kids won't work.

Dad is way in debt already but takes out an even bigger loan and puts the kids on salary to do busywork.

That sound like a long term plan to you?

WSS

[smalls1129]

Can we try to have a real conversation here. Everyone just throws names out there, and then links everyone together, like every Conservative thought that EVERYTHING George Bush did was perfect. That's just stupid, perfection does not exist and even like minded people will never agree on everything.

 

That being said, I have one simple question for those espousing Socialism: What has OUR government ever ran effectively enough that you guys think they could handle far reaching socialist agendas? To me, I don't have faith in anything our government has EVER done to give me confidence in this system. And if this is truly the route that we want to go, lets have an honest conversation about the Constitution; b/c Socialism and Constitutionality do not go hand in hand.

 

2nd Health Care is not a right. It's just not, it is a logical fallacy to call something a right that depends on the existence of another person. IE, you can't have a right to health care b/c it would DEPEND on one of your neighbors being a doctor. Inalienable rights flow from God, not from the skills of another human being.

[osusev]

Steve the um social security surplus IS NOT TIED TO wallstreet, you really dont understand the social security trust fund and how it works do you?

 

The surplus GENERATED FROM THE EXCESS OF CONTRIBTIONS VERSUS PAYOUTS IN THE SS TRUST FUND. it was not projected but actual funds applied in 2000, Bush pulled those EXTRA contributions into the ss trustfund due to his increased budget and spending.

 

As for Obama and his defecit spending in the first two months of office facing a economic catastophe, honestly you must not understand macro economics at all. We dont have any choices right now. its either borrow against ourselve to invest in ourselves or face a free fall into a full blown depression.

 

Bush did not face that in anyway, bringing up 9-11 only illustrates how he mishandled a criminal act.

 

Your problem you qouted IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH OUR ECONOMY, that is a irresponsible situation that many people are in. The problem stems from how money and insurance instruments are managed on wallstreet reflecting backwards on banks and other financial industries loss and profit columns. Those industries invested heavily because of the enormous gains and to stay competitive. This is a massive correction need to restore balance.

 

Money and credit flowing out to those industries START at the Federal lending level then to the banking level. Banks because of how they invested heavily in over aggressive financial instruments that were tied to collateral in huge packages (meaning mortgages) are now burdened with toxic collateral they cant unload back to the market. IN order to keep enough cash on hand to handle day to day activities they have killed credit to EVERYONE. Our economy is based on credit so that creates a feedback loop to further send the market crashing. Meaning jobs are lost due to contraction from no to little credit to buy inventory/material/marketing etc. That leads to sell offs and low investments INTO the market creating the Bear market.

 

This move by the feds to help banks not necessarily the individuals (we all benefit as a byproduct of correcting the system) ease lending back into the market meaning businesses can borrow to market/produce HIRE etc and also stem foreclosures to stop free falling values which affect the banks value on collateral as well as finaincing borrowing etc (new construction/rehab etc)

 

The ONLY organization large enough to move the entire market is the government because the problem is systemic and a self feeding cycle that spirals only downward. That is our system because it is based on credit and confidence in future possible gains.

 

Partisan people like you that dont understand the economics or the reality of the larger system should take your own advice and (STFU) about things that you obviouusly dont understand.

 

I dont like this spending and it does bother me that we have to borrow so much to pull out of this. Unfortunately at this point it is the only option or face a free falling economy.

[Kosar_For_President]

Steve the um social security surplus IS NOT TIED TO wallstreet, you really dont understand the social security trust fund and how it works do you?

 

The surplus GENERATED FROM THE EXCESS OF CONTRIBTIONS VERSUS PAYOUTS IN THE SS TRUST FUND. it was not projected but actual funds applied in 2000, Bush pulled those EXTRA contributions into the ss trustfund due to his increased budget and spending.

 

As for Obama and his defecit spending in the first two months of office facing a economic catastophe, honestly you must not understand macro economics at all. We dont have any choices right now. its either borrow against ourselve to invest in ourselves or face a free fall into a full blown depression.

 

Bush did not face that in anyway, bringing up 9-11 only illustrates how he mishandled a criminal act.

 

Your problem you qouted IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH OUR ECONOMY, that is a irresponsible situation that many people are in. The problem stems from how money and insurance instruments are managed on wallstreet reflecting backwards on banks and other financial industries loss and profit columns. Those industries invested heavily because of the enormous gains and to stay competitive. This is a massive correction need to restore balance.

 

Money and credit flowing out to those industries START at the Federal lending level then to the banking level. Banks because of how they invested heavily in over aggressive financial instruments that were tied to collateral in huge packages (meaning mortgages) are now burdened with toxic collateral they cant unload back to the market. IN order to keep enough cash on hand to handle day to day activities they have killed credit to EVERYONE. Our economy is based on credit so that creates a feedback loop to further send the market crashing. Meaning jobs are lost due to contraction from no to little credit to buy inventory/material/marketing etc. That leads to sell offs and low investments INTO the market creating the Bear market.

 

This move by the feds to help banks not necessarily the individuals (we all benefit as a byproduct of correcting the system) ease lending back into the market meaning businesses can borrow to market/produce HIRE etc and also stem foreclosures to stop free falling values which affect the banks value on collateral as well as finaincing borrowing etc (new construction/rehab etc)

 

The ONLY organization large enough to move the entire market is the government because the problem is systemic and a self feeding cycle that spirals only downward. That is our system because it is based on credit and confidence in future possible gains.

 

Partisan people like you that dont understand the economics or the reality of the larger system should take your own advice and (STFU) about things that you obviouusly dont understand.

 

I dont like this spending and it does bother me that we have to borrow so much to pull out of this. Unfortunately at this point it is the only option or face a free falling economy.

 

WOW. I couldn't (I know I couldn't) of said it better myself. Bravo.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

No way man, we should be focusing on Obama smoking weed 20 years ago. That was a joke.

 

Bush's stimulus gave billions to banks that are sitting on it.

 

The Stimulus plan that Obama recommended he sign, correct? Obammy was all for the supposed "Bush" stimulus plan. And Obama smoking weed is an issue, he is in the highest public office. He should set an example. Not a joke, only to fools like you.

[Westside Steve]

Clinton's phony SS "trust fund" surplus never really existed.

It, like the projected budget surplus, lived and died at the whim of revenue.

During the dotcom bubble the revenue weas there.

When it burst it simply was not.

 

>>> The projected budget surpluses were not the intended results of past policy decisions, but were the fortuitous effect of three factors. It's important to recognize the factors that got us to this unexpected state of surplus in order to assess the likelihood that the surpluses will continue. First Medicare spending has dropped much more sharply than was intended in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. Second, interest rates have fallen more than the CBO or the administration predicted. That has brought down the cost of interest payments on the national debt. And finally, tax receipts have exceeded previous expectations because of strong growth in the economy and the stock market.<<<

 

SS, as we know, is little more than a Ponzi scheme but tied directly to the budget.

 

>>>In reality, we are more likely to see spending increases and tax reductions. The national debt will therefore fall more slowly, if at all, leaving the interest burden larger than projected by the CBO.

 

A critical piece of this will be the treatment of the surpluses in the Social Security program. Ever since 1983, the annual receipts of Social Security have exceeded the benefits. But although the resulting Social Security surpluses have been duly recorded in the trust fund, deficits in other parts of the federal budget have more than offset Social Security surpluses until 1998. The result has been a deficit in the overall federal budget and a lower level of national saving.

<<<

 

So spare me the snow job and get back to what you do best.

Pimping Obammys dedicit spending.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

SEV: - you don't get it, do you ?

 

In every war, each fighting side uses tactics.

 

al quaida sp? Please try to get serious. It's a psuedo-religious army of international criminals of the dangerous kind.

 

You fight a war, using tactics. I suppose we shouldn't have fought the nazis, but just captured them one at a time,

and tried them in court?

 

Perhaps you think murdering the Jewish people was a tactic?

 

Well, it was the hideous genocidal wartime action(s) of an entire international criminal army.

 

So is al quaida. But they want to murder all Jews, and Christians, and everybody else.

 

Hell YES it's a war. You have to WIN the FREAKIN WAR first, then you can go to court and try

individuals on war crimes.

 

Not a war on terror because of their tactics? Where the hell do you get this stuff? moveonupobama'sbutt.org ?

[Westside Steve]

That's how you're spinning this???

 

Jeepers...

 

 

mz the pussy that is probably the biggest reason for this "crisis".

 

Think about it; why would qa healthy 21-50 year old want to pay even a portion of his beer money for insurance?

Odds are you won't use it and if there's a tragic illness the bankruptcy opition is there for anyone with little property.

In Ohio (and elsewhere I'd assume) you're forced t buy auto insurance.

 

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

The Stimulus plan that Obama recommended he sign, correct? Obammy was all for the supposed "Bush" stimulus plan. And Obama smoking weed is an issue, he is in the highest public office. He should set an example. Not a joke, only to fools like you.

 

I'm not sticking up for either President, I am just making the point that they were all spending. Either on social programs or wars or giving banks money to sit on it. If I remember right I think I was ripping on the banks anyways? Touchy...

[osusev]

Steve you dont seem to get it do you. I am licensed in the financial sector, I actually invest and work with my own funds as well as my clients in one of my businesses. That data from 2000 was reported and sourced from the social security trust fund as well as the GAO/Congressional budget reports etc.

 

I am NOT a democrat, nor do I worship Obama in any way. I dont recieve refunds yearly, I pay quarterly. Technically I should be a staunch republican based on what benefits me the most on tax allocation theories. I worry about government spending and borrowing as well as tampering with the Banking system because it directly affects my business. My children eat and are clothed/housed by my companies ability to manage our investments and plan around Banking and securities. Its not just some random topic for me like it is for you. I actually have to understand pass license qualifications to practice and use my own funds in that industry.

 

I have interest in other businesses and how that income is taxed greatly effects me more than a w-2 employee or some sole proprieter. Sometimes you have to sublimate what may be more beneficial for you as an individual for the betterment or advance of the entire whole community. Most republicans and die hard individualists dont understand that concept and thats why they fall into partisan party beliefs.

 

I hate the way welfare works, I hate section hud housing plans, I think they should be run with the sole goal of TEMPORARILY helping people back to WORK. I dont believe in handouts, my other culture is known for working insanely. However people do need help and if a country as wealthy as ours we should be able to provide TEMPORARY assistance with the goal of pointing people back toward self sustainment.

I happen to hate being taxed more but I also know that other people have to work physically harder for much less than me, so I am thankful that i dont have to do what they do for less.

 

Steve you must think I am a diehard liberal or something, I am most certainly not and as conservative with my children as most right wing types are.

[Kosar_For_President]

Steve you dont seem to get it do you. I am licensed in the financial sector, I actually invest and work with my own funds as well as my clients in one of my businesses. That data from 2000 was reported and sourced from the social security trust fund as well as the GAO/Congressional budget reports etc.

 

I am NOT a democrat, nor do I worship Obama in any way. I dont recieve refunds yearly, I pay quarterly. Technically I should be a staunch republican based on what benefits me the most on tax allocation theories. I worry about government spending and borrowing as well as tampering with the Banking system because it directly affects my business. My children eat and are clothed/housed by my companies ability to manage our investments and plan around Banking and securities. Its not just some random topic for me like it is for you. I actually have to understand pass license qualifications to practice and use my own funds in that industry.

 

I have interest in other businesses and how that income is taxed greatly effects me more than a w-2 employee or some sole proprieter. Sometimes you have to sublimate what may be more beneficial for you as an individual for the betterment or advance of the entire whole community. Most republicans and die hard individualists dont understand that concept and thats why they fall into partisan party beliefs.

 

I hate the way welfare works, I hate section hud housing plans, I think they should be run with the sole goal of TEMPORARILY helping people back to WORK. I dont believe in handouts, my other culture is known for working insanely. However people do need help and if a country as wealthy as ours we should be able to provide TEMPORARY assistance with the goal of pointing people back toward self sustainment.

I happen to hate being taxed more but I also know that other people have to work physically harder for much less than me, so I am thankful that i dont have to do what they do for less.

 

Steve you must think I am a diehard liberal or something, I am most certainly not and as conservative with my children as most right wing types are.

 

Genius, pure genius. Selfless, that is what this country is about.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Genius, pure genius. Selfless, that is what this country is about.

Great point. That's why Conservatives give so much to charity, more than liberals, regardless of tax rates. They fund most of the most effective programs to serve the poor in communities all across the country. Liberals, on the other hand, are willing to pay when everyone else has to pay the same (or much much more). I'm not against taking care of the poor, I'm against threatening my neighbor with prison if he doesnt want to give the "right" amount to the "right" programs.

 

Yes, I know I'm painting with a ridiculously broad brush here.

[Kosar_For_President]

Great point. That's why Conservatives give so much to charity, more than liberals, regardless of tax rates.

 

LINK?

[smalls1129]

LINK?

http://philanthropy.com/free/articles/v19/i04/04001101.htm

http://richiericher.wordpress.com/2008/02/...e-conservatism/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/charit...rity-poll_N.htm

 

 

There's a couple. I was headline searching so I am not vouching for everything in them.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

http://philanthropy.com/free/articles/v19/i04/04001101.htm

http://richiericher.wordpress.com/2008/02/...e-conservatism/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/charit...rity-poll_N.htm

 

 

There's a couple. I was headline searching so I am not vouching for everything in them.

 

Cool thanks.

[osusev]

here is a rare moment Tupa and I will actually agree.

 

Typically Business owners/entrepreneurs make more therefore pay more in taxes and able to give more to charitable foundations.

 

That obviously as Tupa pointed out a gross over simplification. Greed is a powerful motive, honestly it is very hard at times for me to not want to go over and become a rank and file type of republican because it would benefit me.

[choco]

And Obama smoking weed is an issue, he is in the highest public office. He should set an example. Not a joke, only to fools like you.

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

[Westside Steve]

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

 

You don't?

Proof that weed fu*ks up the memory.

 

WSS

[Pumpkin Eater]

I'm not sure I get the conservative logic.

 

It's socialism when Obama proposes it, but when a foreign country that's not Russia or Venezuela has the same policy, it's not socialism? How does that make sense?

[Westside Steve]

I'm not sure I get the conservative logic.

 

It's socialism when Obama proposes it, but when a foreign country that's not Russia or Venezuela has the same policy, it's not socialism? How does that make sense?

 

So what you're saying is that Obama is correct in implementing Russian and Venezuelan ideas into US policiy?

 

Actually is it only the term socialist that bothers ya?

Because those aren't the only two countries that practice some form or extent of socialism.

WSS

[choco]

You don't?

Proof that weed fu*ks up the memory.

 

WSS

 

yup, makes me forget everything.....

 

 

you, on the otherhand, have selective memory from your kool-aide enema courtesy of the GOP. you have any opinions that are not republican talking points, steve?

 

 

 

 

 

[Westside Steve]

yup, makes me forget everything.....

 

 

you, on the otherhand, have selective memory from your kool-aide enema courtesy of the GOP. you have any opinions that are not republican talking points, steve?

 

 

Well as I often ask guys who make that baseless accusation, list a few topics in which I'm in lockstep with a party.

 

If you can do that I may take the time to discuss the differences.

If you can't I may point out that you're talking out your ass.

Fair?

 

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

So what you're saying is that Obama is correct in implementing Russian and Venezuelan ideas into US policiy?

 

Actually is it only the term socialist that bothers ya?

Because those aren't the only two countries that practice some form or extent of socialism.

WSS

 

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

[Westside Steve]

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

 

 

The tenets of Jante Law are:

. You shall not think you are special.

. You shall not believe you are smarter than others.

. You shall not believe you are wiser than others.

. You shall not behave as if you are better than others.

. You shall not believe that you know more than others.

. You shall not believe that you can fix things better than others.

. You shall not laugh at others.

. You shall not believe that others care about you.

. You shall not believe that you can teach others anything.

 

As I've said repeatedly socialism is not evil.

It is, IMO, a completely unworkable system in our culture.

 

And I'd guess that even you'd admit Norway is a far different place than the US.

And a fairly rare case of socialistic success.

But in another thousand years who knows?

WSS

[We need Tom Tupa]

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!

[Westside Steve]

So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!

 

 

Third largest exporter of oil in the world.

Right behind the other socialist paradise, Russia.

 

WSS

[choco]

Well as I often ask guys who make that baseless accusation, list a few topics in which I'm in lockstep with a party.

 

If you can do that I may take the time to discuss the differences.

If you can't I may point out that you're talking out your ass.

Fair?

 

WSS

un huh....so, when are you going to support anything you say then, steve? huh?

 

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

 

all you can make is a quip about my memory......

 

so where's all the people getting their panties bunched because dubya was a coke head? have any links? something to support you implied claim? we made jokes, sure....im sure the drugs helped his fantastic oratory skills.....

 

as i see it, there's a much bigger problem of a cokehead with a drinking problem at the helm than a toker.......

 

 

 

so if you want me to take the time to review your post history to pwn you, you have to do your initial leg work first. you old guys are lazy as hell when it comes to proper intertube etiquette. only promising that you "may" then discuss topic is hardly invoking me to play along......just makes me think that you have nothing but your word....which is only as good as 1's and 0's on a computer screen.