Obama called out - says (really) he'll bankrupt coal co.'s

[calfoxwc]

Obama Called Out for Comments About Bankrupting Coal Fired Power Plants Save Email Print

 

 

Posted: 7:27 PM Nov 2, 2008

Last Updated: 10:45 PM Nov 2, 2008

Reporter: Michael Wooten

Email Address: michael.wooten@wsaz.com

 

27 comments

 

 

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A | A | A CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- With only hours before election day, coal has become a major topic of Decision 2008.

 

Sunday comments surfaced from a taped interview Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama did with the San Francisco Chronicle in January.

 

In the interview, which has been available online for months, Obama talks about the importance of coal. He went on to talk about his cap and trade proposal to help curb global warming.

 

"If somebody wants to build a coal power plant they can, it's just that it will bankrupt them because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted," Barack Obama said to the San Francisco Chronicle in January.

 

The campaign for Republican presidential candidate John McCain jumped on those comments today and is already sending out taped phone messages to voters in Ohio.

 

Campaigning in Marietta today, McCain's running mate Sarah Palin mentioned the Obama comments.

 

"He said that, sure, if the industry wants to build coal-fired power plants, then they can go ahead and try, he says, but they can do it only in a way that will bankrupt the coal industry, and he's comfortable letting that happen. And you got to listen to the tape," Sarah Palin said.

 

The Obama campaign says the quote is being taken out of context and that Obama is actually from a coal state and is a strong supporter of the industry.

 

The campaign sent a statement today saying "the point Obama is making is that we need a transition from coal burning power plants built with old technology to plants built with advanced technologies."

[heckofajobbrownie]

This is funny. I just saw Fox reporting this as BREAKING NEWS! Drudge is running it. So obviously Cal fell for it too.

 

Even though it's from an interview Obama did in January.

 

And why is this being brought up now, instead of three weeks ago, or after Obama actually said it? Because everyone would see how stupid it was, and everyone would report on how stupid it was, if you had more than a day to run this story. It's last minute desperation time. Throw everything you've got against the wall and see who falls for it.

 

Like Cal.

 

Obviously, Obama is talking about the increased price of emitting CO2 under a cap and trade regime - which both McCain and Obama support - and how it's going to be harder for coal companies to do business in that environment without adopting clean coal technologies.

 

It's not complicated. It's also something we mentioned in our global warming discussions on this board. It's the kind of thing that is mentioned in pretty much any discussion of how to address global warming.

 

You can read the whole quote here:

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch ... ns-to.html

 

Just last minute politics. Fall for it if you feel like. But you don't have to.

[Westside Steve]

Throw everything you've got against the wall and see who falls for it.

 

Like Cal.

 

Of course you can be counted on to take a bullet a bullet for the empty suit no matter what he says. (then again what he says means pretty little)

 

Here's a good bet for ya Mr Vegas.

 

Over/under on Obama's campaign promises turning out to be lies.

 

You still as generous with the odds?

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, I don't know how your mind functions, but Cal posted the latest right-wing attack against Obama. Apparently, if I point out how it's nonsense, and that Obama doesn't want to "bankrupt" coal industry, as Fox, Drudge, and everyone is alleging this morning, I'm taking a bullet for something, something, repeat, repeat...

 

What would you have me do, accept everything Cal posts as truth?

 

Obama and McCain agree on the idea of a cap and trade system that would put a price on carbon emission. All Obama is saying in this interview is that he wants to put market mechanisms in place that encourage all energy companies to adopt cleaner technology.

 

That's all he's saying.

 

Now, do you think Obama plans to "bankrupt the coal industry", as these dopes are alleging?

 

Why do you think this interview from January is coming out now, a day before the election? Do you really think someone at the McCain campaign just found it yesterday?

 

And if you agree with me that this is a political attack, not something that makes any sense, why are you starting your day all grumpy and getting mad at me about it?

[Westside Steve]

What would you have me do, accept everything Cal posts as truth?

 

Have you do?

 

What I expect you to do is spin every negative thing your boy says for him.

I haven't been disappointed yet.

 

And if you agree with me that this is a political attack, not something that makes any sense, why are you starting your day all grumpy and getting mad at me about it?

 

It is all political attacks.

His attack on the coal industry was a political one meant to stir up the Gore gang.

 

~~hint he didn 't give that speech in Wheeling~~

 

He's on record as being in love with skyrocketing energy costs.

WSS

[Pumpkin Eater]

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's the same plan that McCain has. It's the same plan that McCain has been attacked for "wanting to kill the coal industry" in the past.

 

Yes, Virginia, to address global warming we're going to have to transition away from the dirtier sources of energy to cleaner ones, or have the dirtier ones figure out ways to become cleaner. (This is that clean coal technology you've been hearing so much about.)

 

And that's all Obama's talking about. The two candidates agree on this point.

 

It doesn't take much to defend someone when they're right. And McCain's right too.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Now again:

 

1. Why do you think this is coming out now, a day before the election?

 

2. Do you think Obama and McCain agree or disagree on the necessity of a cap and trade program to deal with global warming?

 

3. Is Obama talking about how a cap and trade program would work in this interview, or is he talking about his desire to bankrupt the coal industry?

[heckofajobbrownie]

I'll give you a hint, Steve:

 

“I think that one can get into the arguments about clean coal, but I think the issue is to transition away from coal use and to do it in a way that is good for the economy. I would not disagree with you that in a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely. But there is certainly, at least from my understanding, there is a dramatic difference in the effects of the so-called dirty coal in a broad variety of ways as opposed to the cleaner coal.”

 

Who said that?

[heckofajobbrownie]

Come on. See if you can beat me on the facts.

[Mr. T]

here is your link what Cal posted is true! if you want to close yor ears eyes and mouth that is your choice but this is a Big Issue!

 

If we elect Obama we will all be in the unemployment Line!

 

http://www.wsaz.com/political/headlines/33726759.html

[Westside Steve]

Now again:

 

1. Why do you think this is coming out now, a day before the election?

You can read right?

What did I say 2 or 3 posts ago?

 

2. Do you think Obama and McCain agree or disagree on the necessity of a cap and trade program to deal with global warming?

 

Mostly agree.

Either pandering or just wrong.

Remember I don't worship John McCain as you do Obama.

 

3. Is Obama talking about how a cap and trade program would work in this interview, or is he talking about his desire to bankrupt the coal industry?

 

Given his audience I say he's trash talking the dreaded coal industry.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

So you agree that:

 

1. This is a political attack timed to come out a day before the election.

 

2. McCain and Obama have the same opinion on the necessity of a cap and trade program.

 

3. Obama's not talking about his desire to bankrupt the coal industry.

 

So what are you mad at me about?

 

Again, if you want me to stop defending Obama, find something where I disagree with Obama. There are a few things we could talk about.

 

But you may have noticed that we had about a month's worth of discussion (and another few weeks in the private room) of cap and trade, and I'm for it. And I'm glad McCain is for it, though I think his plan is inferior to Obama's.

 

So we agree then? Obama is talking about using market incentives to transition coal from dirty coal to clean coal, not bankrupting the industry. And in the McCain quote above, so is he.

 

Why are you so upset? Cal posts something dumb. I shoot it down. Truth wins out. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

[heckofajobbrownie]

Here, watch fellas - I can do it too!

 

Here's McCain talking about global warming, cap and trade, and the coal industry: “I think that one can get into the arguments about clean coal, but I think the issue is to transition away from coal use and to do it in a way that is good for the economy. I would not disagree with you that in a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely. But there is certainly, at least from my understanding, there is a dramatic difference in the effects of the so-called dirty coal in a broad variety of ways as opposed to the cleaner coal.”

 

 

Here's your big scary Drudge/Fox headline, plucked out of context from that same interview:

 

MCCAIN SHOCKER: "...in a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely.'

 

See how easy that is?? So why do you keep falling for it?

[Westside Steve]

So you agree that:

 

1. This is a political attack timed to come out a day before the election.

 

A quite valid one.

For anyone who cares about domestic energy sources.

 

2. McCain and Obama have the same opinion on the necessity of a cap and trade program.

 

Again unlike you, I don't worship either candidate.

 

3. Obama's not talking about his desire to bankrupt the coal industry.

 

Yes he is.

To pander to the lunatic left he speaks to.

Like....

 

So what are you mad at me about?

Mad? It's kind of funny.

Imagine anyone else being as blindly in lockstep.

 

Again, if you want me to stop defending Obama, find something where I disagree with Obama. There are a few things we could talk about.

 

Uh gee OK.

List the big areas of disagreement.

I'm guessing that he's not hard left enough on.......

 

But you may have noticed that we had about a month's worth of discussion (and another few weeks in the private room) of cap and trade, and I'm for it. And I'm glad McCain is for it, though I think his plan is inferior to Obama's.

 

So we agree then?

 

No. See above.

 

Obama is talking about using market incentives to transition coal from dirty coal to clean coal, not bankrupting the industry. And in the McCain quote above, so is he.

 

And that's stupid for either one.

Like outlawing speech to encourage mental telepathy.

 

Why are you so upset? Cal posts something dumb. I shoot it down. Truth wins out. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

If it were the case/

WSS

[Mr. T]

there is a process of filtering the burning of coal that makes it clean and since Bush's dad signed that liberal clean air act we have not built any new nuclear power plants let alone we haven't built any new refineries.

[Guest Aloysius]

MCCAIN SHOCKER: "...in a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely.'

[heckofajobbrownie]

I didn't know how to put the siren in, so thanks for the backup.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ

 

So, Heck. You are now sinking into your own liberal mire, defending Obama at the cost of what

little credibility you have left?

 

Mock the truth so it doesn't exist huh?

 

This story is from SAN FRANCISCO - that FREAKIN HOTBED OF RIGHT WING ATTACK MACHINE ATTACKS ?

 

(ROF,LMAO !)

 

In Obama's own words - I have heard him SAY IT in his OWN WORDS on several news outlets, on the radio, twice on tv.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ

[heckofajobbrownie]

As for Steve, once again, he can't beat me on the facts, so he accuses me of being blindly in lockstep. Except that it's not an argument. Or even accurate. So we'll put it in the discard pile with all the other non-arguments.

 

Of course, in this case, I'm also "blindly in lockstep" with McCain.

 

The point is that this thread, and this new line of attack from the McCain campaign, is a joke. This is Obama's position on coal and cap and trade. It's also McCain position on coal and cap and trade. They both want to use energy policy to steer coal companies to introduce more clean coal technology.

 

It's also nothing new. Both have held this view on cap and trade for years. Yet Steve seems to think it's a valid line of attack to accuse the other candidate of something you agree with entirely, and when you're also on record saying essentially the same thing, which I quoted above.

 

It's not. It's just politics.

[calfoxwc]

so was Hitler's rise to power and the changes Germany ended up with.

[heckofajobbrownie]

BTW, I'm not one who believes that clean coal technology is going to save us. Trumpeting "clean coal" is more about politics than anything else.

[Mr. T]

Obama is a socialist and he will have to bring down capitalist one leg at atime to implement his government controled market

[heckofajobbrownie]

He's had a tough run of late. Like the Detroit Lions.

[Westside Steve]

As for Steve, once again, he can't beat me on the facts, so he accuses me of being blindly in lockstep. Except that it's not an argument. Or even accurate. So we'll put it in the discard pile with all the other non-arguments.

 

What facts?

I say your boy was pandering to the lunatic left and meant what he said.

The "fact" is that he said it.

The "fact" is it's unsavory when spoken aloud without thinking.

And the "fact" is you say that's [maybe] not what he maant.

So did he mean it, misspeak or lie?

WSS

 

It's not. It's just politics.

 

Global warming is politics.

Nothing more.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Oh, brother. This gets dumber by the day.

 

No one is disputing that he said it. No one is disputing the city in which he said it. No one is disputing that he meant it. That's not what we're arguing.

 

Plus, if you think saying it aloud is "unsavory", that's what's called "an opinion." That's not a fact.

 

When you say "your boy was pandering to the lunatic left and meant what he said" that's not what we're discussing.

 

Once again, do I really have to explain this stuff to a grown man?

 

The facts are that:

 

1. Obama is not describing his desire to bankrupt the coal industry; he's describing what happens under a cap and trade system, and how that uses market pressure to force coal companies to adopt clean coal technologies, or face the prospects of being outcompeted in the energy marketplace.

 

Saying that he wants to "bankrupt the coal industry", as was alleged in this thread, on Fox, on Drudge, and by Sarah Palin -- those are political statements, not an accurate description of what he said, or what he's talking about.

 

2. John McCain believes in adopting the same cap and trade mechanisms that Barack Obama is talking about here.

 

3. John McCain has issued similar statements, like the one I quoted above, expressing his desire to use a cap and trade policy to force coal companies to adopt clean coal technologies. He's even offered amendments to bills in Congress to do so.

 

4. For years, both McCain and Obama have believed that a cap and trade system is the best/most politically feasible way to address global warming.

 

Therefore, it's my opinion, based on those facts, that it's not exactly a fair critique to attack someone who holds the same position on cap and trade that you do, and on clean coal that you do, as having some wildly radical plan to bankrupt the coal companies in the final day of the election campaign. it doesn't make any sense in the real world. It's just politics. Come Wednesday and beyond, McCain and Obama will go back to working together for a cap and trade system that combats the effects of global warming and speeds the nation towards cleaner energy and energy independence.

 

As for the idea that global warming is only about politics and not about science or the laws of nature, I don't know how you can get any more ignorant than that. But that's also not what we're arguing here.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Now, do I have any of my facts wrong? Or are you going to try to pass off some more of your opinions as facts?

 

Tell me what part of that is wrong. Is McCain not for cap and trade like I say? Is McCain not on record expressing his desire to switch to cleaner coal technologies? Is he not on record - in the Congressional record - introducing an amendment that would push the coal industry to adopt these technologies? Does McCain not believe that global warming is real? Is Obama not discussing the effects of a cap and trade program in the interview in question? Does he not express his desire to shift from dirty coal to clean coal in that interview?

 

What do you have except grumpiness and eternal frustration at getting bested by the likes of me? I can't find a simple, logical retort in anything you've written so far.

[calfoxwc]

clean coal is not promising to intentionally bankrupt the coal industry.

 

Heck, you cannot prove that - McCain NEVER said what Obama SAID.

 

There was a time when Heck postured himself as determined to be intellectually honest.

 

Well, that sure as heyl went out the window.

[Mr. T]

feeling sorry for west virginia. that state is already in poverty. those poor guys will feel like there in a depression when Obama closes the mines.

[calfoxwc]

well, we get HALF of our electricity from burning COAL.

 

Electricity may end up being so expensive no one can afford it.

 

But, if you fink on those who don't heil Obama, you could get your electricity paid.

 

Or, maybe Obama will actually get the left po'd and be Pres to ALL AMERICANS, even if they are not BLACK.

 

We shall see. The pendulum has swung the other direction.