Ohio: The bandwagon state

[Trolling for dick]

I have no doubt that there is a correlation between winning and popularity.

Also, being from a very large market should help.

Face it, there are 20+million people in the NYC area.....that would be 10 mill each for their two teams.

Cleveland/Pittsburgh only have 2.5-3 mill in their area. That means there is 3-4 times the base from which the NYC fans attract than there is for the Browns/Steelers.

But clearly winning helps with the FRAK factor.

Do you think the Steelers would be popular if they continued the losing ways of Art Rooney and did not enjoy the winning ways or Dan Rooney? No

The Steelers would maintain popularity until their fanbase gets old and dies off, just like the Browns. People are people. Football is important in cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Green Bay but people only have a limited tolerance for losing. At some point people lose interest if there's nothing rewarding by watching their team. It's human nature. You obviously don't feel that way, you're a diehard who lived through the good times. You're sticking around to experience it again. Not everyone can maintain the same level of obsession as you. There are too many other things to do. If you're 20 years old you've never experienced your team being a powerhouse if you're a Browns fan. You've only felt the occasional division win followed by a whole lot of losing and despair. I understand and I'm sure you do too. I can empathize with people like that. YOU just don't tolerate it. I see that in your posts obviously.

 

I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games. It's not because they aren't good fans. They just can't stomach losing. Hell, I left the playoff game when Pittsburgh was losing to Cleveland back when Holcomb was your qb. I couldn't watch it any more. I missed the comeback. It didn't make me any less of a Steeler fan, it just affected me THAT much. Now forever and ever I'm that dude who missed one of the greatest comebacks in team playoff history.

[Trolling for dick]

I would expect that kid to to not have respect for his grandfather for kicking the dog, no matter who the grandpa roots for. If the Grandfather is committing animal cruelty I would hope the kid would call him on it.

But That has nothing to do with football.

But yes....I would say that the kid IS an asshole if he says to himself "my grandad kicks my dog, my grandad is a Browns fan....ergo I will be a Steeler fan".

That would be stupid as shit.

If his Dad was a Steeler fan and kicked the dog.... would I expect him to be a Browns fan? No.

I would expect that because he is from Youngstown....not because his grandpa is an asshole.

I was being metaphoric about the dog. My point is I can relate to a 15yr old kid who choses a winning team over a losing one even if he was born into a family of a certain team's fans.

[Trolling for dick]

 

Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday.

Yes, Loyalty.

 

But there's a huge difference in loyalty to a sports team and loyalty in matters of real importance. An unloyal fan isn't deserving of a "fucking asshole idiot" title in my opinion.

\

You take it too personally.

Not really.....again, I think it exhibits a lack of character to be a person whose loyalty can be purchased by a few wins.

 

You really do take it to seriously. It's sports, not loyalty to your brother or your mom.

 

I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying.

I don't care who you root for either....but I would not want you to be such a namby pamby ass that something as important as your loyalty is for sale.

 

I don't have a scale for my loyalty, but then again I have free will and so does everyone else. Who are you to judge?

 

 

It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.

Again....its not the "Who" they root for that is important......I hate the Steelers, but I respect someone who would in fact be a loyal Steeler fan through thick and thin.....maybe you are one of those.

I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin. OK, so we know that someone like that is a whore....we just have to figure out what their price is.

 

If I said I can't respect a woman who's loyal to her husband even though he's an asshat who makes her life miserable by being an abusive alcoholic, would you disagree or would you admire her?

 

[gumby73]

Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..

Raleigh/Durham is on the ocean?

[Zombo]

Steeler fans dominate possum-eating Appalachia. And few inbred outposts. The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So? I am a Browns fan but not an OSU fan, I dont expect everyone in Columbus to be a Browns fan. They have a choice ... and it looks like the current generation is smartening up over their front-running coward daddies.

 

Z

[StinkHole]

I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin.

That said, Steeler fans have yet to be put to that test. There has been a lot of thick, not much thin.

[StinkHole]

The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So?

 

So? That's the point of the thread.

[gumby73]

Raleigh/Durham is on the ocean?

2 hour drive. Is perfect distance from tourist towns on coast. (believe me lived on beach 2 yrs.enough) and bigger business region for family income all 1 1/2 to 2 hours away.

[Zombo]

So? That's the point of the thread.

Well, I think you have the wrong audience then.

 

Does anyone care if Harrisburg roots for the Pitt or Philly?

 

This isnt a Columbus forum. But glad they dropped you bitches.

 

Zombo

[Comeonman]

Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!

[Trolling for dick]

Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!

Yeah, when you're talking about who has more fans in Columbus and Harrisburg the season needs to start like right now.

[StinkHole]

Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!

Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.

 

You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!

 

Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.

[The Gipper]

The Steelers would maintain popularity until their fanbase gets old and dies off, just like the Browns. People are people. Football is important in cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Green Bay but people only have a limited tolerance for losing. At some point people lose interest if there's nothing rewarding by watching their team. It's human nature. You obviously don't feel that way, you're a diehard who lived through the good times. You're sticking around to experience it again. Not everyone can maintain the same level of obsession as you. There are too many other things to do. If you're 20 years old you've never experienced your team being a powerhouse if you're a Browns fan. You've only felt the occasional division win followed by a whole lot of losing and despair. I understand and I'm sure you do too. I can empathize with people like that. YOU just don't tolerate it. I see that in your posts obviously.

Actually, I do know just what you speak of.....I lived through 35 years of bad Cleveland Indians baseball....never seeing a sniff of postseason from like 1960 until they started doing something in the mid 90s.

So, yes....it IS possible for a person to be loyal to a team beginning when he is single digits in age until he reaches his 40s before that team starts winning. (But...yes...it is actually harder to keep up with them after they won for a while then drop back down again.)

So, correct, no, I don't tolerate bandwagon jumpers.

It was just the opposite for the Browns. They were winners from when I was a kid until my mid 20s when they had a bad streak (which happened to coincide with the Steelers good streak). But they came back soon in the 80s.

 

I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games. It's not because they aren't good fans. They just can't stomach losing. Hell, I left the playoff game when Pittsburgh was losing to Cleveland back when Holcomb was your qb. I couldn't watch it any more. I missed the comeback. It didn't make me any less of a Steeler fan, it just affected me THAT much. Now forever and ever I'm that dude who missed one of the greatest comebacks in team playoff history.

Well, at least the Browns fans were there in the first place.

As for that comeback....you can thank Butch Davis for going into the prevent defense in the middle of the third quarter. The Steelers came back because Butch enabled them to. (plus you can thank Dennis Northcutt for dropping what would have been the game clinching catch.....had he caught it...first down...game over. He dropped it...Browns had to punt...Steelers mounted game winning drive in final minute.

[The Gipper]

I was being metaphoric about the dog. My point is I can relate to a 15yr old kid who choses a winning team over a losing one even if he was born into a family of a certain team's fans.

OK, I am not a fan of it. It exhibits FRAK behavior...which you now know to me means a lack of character.

[The Gipper]

That said, Steeler fans have yet to be put to that test. There has been a lot of thick, not much thin.

Correctamundo......here's to having that test come soon

OK, pretty lame sound effect.

[The Gipper]

Yeah, when you're talking about who has more fans in Columbus and Harrisburg the season needs to start like right now.

Go look at the thread on Schizophrenic cities.....it deals exactly with this subject. This issue may not seem important to us in the heart of Browns country or in the heart of Steeler country.....but it seems an issue for the folks in those parts.

 

To PA it may be no big thing whether Harrisburg is Steeler or Eagle backers....as it is such a small market compared to Philly and Pitt. But Columbus is a different deal in this state as though the entire market still is 3rd behind Cleve/Cinci...it is not that far behind. So it is a big segment of the state.

To NFL teams the important thing of course is money. Can the Browns outtrump the Bengals for the Columbus NFL dollar? That is what these team execs worry about. It may not be as big as Can the Steelers outtrump the Eagles for the Harrisburg dollar? Just not as many dollars at stake.

[The Gipper]

Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.

 

Where do you see that in relation to this topic area? Sure, there are internal disagreements about things like "Who should play QB"......you would have the same if you faced our QB situation. You are lucky you don't have that.

 

You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!

I don't think we take our anger out on Pitt fans......we mock and deride Steeler fans for generally being the stupidest fan base in the nation.

If we are angry at the Browns...that is usually taken out on the owner/GM/HC/QB etc. We know who is responsible and to whom to assess accountability.

 

Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.

In a number of areas/units, I think the Browns could have the best in the division. At a few critical spots they certainly could fall behind.

Obviously QB is an issue. Maybe WR.

 

But here is something some of your ilk could not seem to wrap their heads around: The Browns running game was just as good as the Steelers running game overall last year. They gained just about as many yards, and actually scored more rushing TDs.

Now...the Steelers had the one outstanding runner...Bell.....where the Browns did it by committee....

And....the Steelers RBs contributed a lot more in the passing game. Our OC last year apparently refused to allow the RBs to catch the ball much.

But..l.on pure running....the teams were just about equal.

(this year, with a new OC and Duke Johnson...I expect the Browns to do far more passing to their RBs.

[Trolling for dick]

 

Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.

 

Where do you see that in relation to this topic area? Sure, there are internal disagreements about things like "Who should play QB"......you would have the same if you faced our QB situation. You are lucky you don't have that.

 

You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!

I don't think we take our anger out on Pitt fans......we mock and deride Steeler fans for generally being the stupidest fan base in the nation.

If we are angry at the Browns...that is usually taken out on the owner/GM/HC/QB etc. We know who is responsible and to whom to assess accountability.

 

C'mon man, Steeler fans are stupid? Half this board predicts 11 or 12 wins for your team every single year. And we're the stupid ones?

 

Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.

In a number of areas/units, I think the Browns could have the best in the division. At a few critical spots they certainly could fall behind.

Obviously QB is an issue. Maybe WR.

 

Qb is more than an issue, it's horrible. That being said, in my opinion your team did the right thing not reaching for a name qb in the draft like they've done way too many times. Build up the defense and the rest of the offense until you get the right guy at the right time at qb.

 

But here is something some of your ilk could not seem to wrap their heads around: The Browns running game was just as good as the Steelers running game overall last year. They gained just about as many yards, and actually scored more rushing TDs.

Now...the Steelers had the one outstanding runner...Bell.....where the Browns did it by committee....

And....the Steelers RBs contributed a lot more in the passing game. Our OC last year apparently refused to allow the RBs to catch the ball much.

But..l.on pure running....the teams were just about equal.

(this year, with a new OC and Duke Johnson...I expect the Browns to do far more passing to their RBs.

 

I could argue a new OC means you could expect a decline on offense. I'm sure you don't expect Pitt's defense to be better with a new DC right? Duke Johnson? Who? I thought you were content with your rbs. They're just as good as Bell right?

 

[The Gipper]

 

 

Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.

 

Where do you see that in relation to this topic area? Sure, there are internal disagreements about things like "Who should play QB"......you would have the same if you faced our QB situation. You are lucky you don't have that.

 

You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!

I don't think we take our anger out on Pitt fans......we mock and deride Steeler fans for generally being the stupidest fan base in the nation.

If we are angry at the Browns...that is usually taken out on the owner/GM/HC/QB etc. We know who is responsible and to whom to assess accountability.

 

C'mon man, Steeler fans are stupid? Half this board predicts 11 or 12 wins for your team every single year. And we're the stupid ones?

 

There is difference between stupid and overly optimistic. Yes, Browns fans can be overly optimistic, but that is not an intellectual issue, that is an emotional issue.

A lot of Steeler fans are stupid in this regard: they have no clue why their team is good. They think because they are good fans and dress up and cheer that that is the reason the Steelers are good. They have no clue about the fact that their team has had stable ownership/management/coaching over all these years. They have no clue about how lucky that makes them or how fragile that all can be....how the Rooneys could easily have been as inept as Art Modell or Randy Lerner. Or how Mike Tomlin could have been Romeo Cornell....or how Bill Cowher could have been Gunther Cunningham etc.

 

Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.

In a number of areas/units, I think the Browns could have the best in the division. At a few critical spots they certainly could fall behind.

Obviously QB is an issue. Maybe WR.

 

Qb is more than an issue, it's horrible. That being said, in my opinion your team did the right thing not reaching for a name qb in the draft like they've done way too many times. Build up the defense and the rest of the offense until you get the right guy at the right time at qb.

McCown may in fact be a steady veteran hand that could serve this team well....remains to be seen. JFF?....?????

 

But here is something some of your ilk could not seem to wrap their heads around: The Browns running game was just as good as the Steelers running game overall last year. They gained just about as many yards, and actually scored more rushing TDs.

Now...the Steelers had the one outstanding runner...Bell.....where the Browns did it by committee....

And....the Steelers RBs contributed a lot more in the passing game. Our OC last year apparently refused to allow the RBs to catch the ball much.

But..l.on pure running....the teams were just about equal.

(this year, with a new OC and Duke Johnson...I expect the Browns to do far more passing to their RBs.

 

I could argue a new OC means you could expect a decline on offense.

Oh, it could....but I don't think so.

 

I'm sure you don't expect Pitt's defense to be better with a new DC right?

Well, you have lost as your DC the person many feel has been the greatest asst. coach in the history of the game. A few of your friends said that LeBeau lost it the last couple of years. Apparently he has not been perceived to have lost it to prevent him from getting another gig. Let's just say his replacement has very large shoes to fill.

 

Duke Johnson? Who? I thought you were content with your rbs. They're just as good as Bell right?

 

As a committee the Browns RBs gained as much on the ground and scored more TDs than Bell, yes. I don't know if that quantification gets them the title "just as good". They were not just as good at receiving.

That is where Duke Johnson comes in......3rd round pick out of Miami. Expected to be along the lines of a Greg Pruitt or Eric Metcalf type....hopefully doing a lot of damage in the passing game. It is something the Browns did not have although yes, to the extent that it is there was "contentment" with what Crowell and West were doing running the ball.

 

 

 

[Trolling for dick]

 

 

 

Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.

 

Where do you see that in relation to this topic area? Sure, there are internal disagreements about things like "Who should play QB"......you would have the same if you faced our QB situation. You are lucky you don't have that.

 

You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!

I don't think we take our anger out on Pitt fans......we mock and deride Steeler fans for generally being the stupidest fan base in the nation.

If we are angry at the Browns...that is usually taken out on the owner/GM/HC/QB etc. We know who is responsible and to whom to assess accountability.

 

C'mon man, Steeler fans are stupid? Half this board predicts 11 or 12 wins for your team every single year. And we're the stupid ones?

 

There is difference between stupid and overly optimistic. Yes, Browns fans can be overly optimistic, but that is not an intellectual issue, that is an emotional issue.

A lot of Steeler fans are stupid in this regard: they have no clue why their team is good. They think because they are good fans and dress up and cheer that that is the reason the Steelers are good. They have no clue about the fact that their team has had stable ownership/management/coaching over all these years. They have no clue about how lucky that makes them or how fragile that all can be....how the Rooneys could easily have been as inept as Art Modell or Randy Lerner. Or how Mike Tomlin could have been Romeo Cornell....or how Bill Cowher could have been Gunther Cunningham etc.

 

I don't know a single Steeler fan that fits the description you just wrote. Really, the Steelers are good because we cheer? We have no clue about the Steelers history? Wow, that's just untrue and reflective of a bitter rival who is jealous of the opponent's success. Do some Steeler fans get under your skin? I'm sure. Do Browns fans get under my skin some times? Surely. To say they're all stupid because Zombo predicts a Steelers loss every week, or because you think the Browns are every bit as good as the Steelers except for at qb when year after year there's objective evidence to prove otherwise doesn't make me think all Browns fans are stupid either. Nor does it make me think you or Zombo are stupid. You have strong misguided opinions at times and Zombo says ridiculous things for effect. It's what make you guys interesting to an outsider. Please don't take offence.

 

Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.

In a number of areas/units, I think the Browns could have the best in the division. At a few critical spots they certainly could fall behind.

Obviously QB is an issue. Maybe WR.

 

Qb is more than an issue, it's horrible. That being said, in my opinion your team did the right thing not reaching for a name qb in the draft like they've done way too many times. Build up the defense and the rest of the offense until you get the right guy at the right time at qb.

McCown may in fact be a steady veteran hand that could serve this team well....remains to be seen. JFF?....?????

 

Both are true statements. I wouldn't expect great things though based on their careers to this point.

 

But here is something some of your ilk could not seem to wrap their heads around: The Browns running game was just as good as the Steelers running game overall last year. They gained just about as many yards, and actually scored more rushing TDs.

Now...the Steelers had the one outstanding runner...Bell.....where the Browns did it by committee....

And....the Steelers RBs contributed a lot more in the passing game. Our OC last year apparently refused to allow the RBs to catch the ball much.

But..l.on pure running....the teams were just about equal.

(this year, with a new OC and Duke Johnson...I expect the Browns to do far more passing to their RBs.

 

I could argue a new OC means you could expect a decline on offense.

Oh, it could....but I don't think so.

Of course. You're an optimistic Browns fan.

 

I'm sure you don't expect Pitt's defense to be better with a new DC right?

Well, you have lost as your DC the person many feel has been the greatest asst. coach in the history of the game. A few of your friends said that LeBeau lost it the last couple of years. Apparently he has not been perceived to have lost it to prevent him from getting another gig. Let's just say his replacement has very large shoes to fill.

He does, and I have absolutely no idea how it will work out. I'm not predicting anything.

 

 

Duke Johnson? Who? I thought you were content with your rbs. They're just as good as Bell right?

 

As a committee the Browns RBs gained as much on the ground and scored more TDs than Bell, yes. I don't know if that quantification gets them the title "just as good". They were not just as good at receiving.

That is where Duke Johnson comes in......3rd round pick out of Miami. Expected to be along the lines of a Greg Pruitt or Eric Metcalf type....hopefully doing a lot of damage in the passing game. It is something the Browns did not have although yes, to the extent that it is there was "contentment" with what Crowell and West were doing running the ball.

 

One of if not the greatest asset Bell brings to the Steelers is his blocking ability. His pass blocking was a huge reason Ben threw for 5,000yds last year. Sure, he gained a lot of yards from scrimmage and he gets a lot of credit for that. He's tough, has good vision and patience, but he's no burner by any measure. He's a really good runner and receiver. He's an exceptional blocker and it goes unnoticed.

 

Is Johnson a good blocker?

 

 

 

 

[nickers]

 

 

I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games.

 

 

Don't post lies now.. You couldn't be more further away from the truth.. Browns fans aren't like the pompous frisco fans that leave the game before the 4th quarter even starts.... It's apparent you really dont pay attention all that well.. Unlike Stooler vermin, who by part and parcel are mostly comprised of FRAK fandom... The Browns sellout the stadium even with a losing record as where Stooler fans , crawl back in thier trailors and hide when they're losing at the half.

[The Gipper]

I don't know a single Steeler fan that fits the description you just wrote.

 

Really, the Steelers are good because we cheer? We have no clue about the Steelers history? Wow, that's just untrue and reflective of a bitter rival who is jealous of the opponent's success. Do some Steeler fans get under your skin? I'm sure. Do Browns fans get under my skin some times? Surely. To say they're all stupid because Zombo predicts a Steelers loss every week, or because you think the Browns are every bit as good as the Steelers except for at qb when year after year there's objective evidence to prove otherwise doesn't make me think all Browns fans are stupid either. Nor does it make me think you or Zombo are stupid. You have strong misguided opinions at times and Zombo says ridiculous things for effect. It's what make you guys interesting to an outsider. Please don't take offence.

Well, apparently you have not been around the same Steeler fans we have. Actually I think that is true. We here get exposed to the FRAK fans....who probably are overall stupider than your basic truly loyal Steeler fan....so really, it is your FRAK fan base that is probably bringing you down....and you should be glad to be rid of them.

 

As for the Browns being as good as the Steelers.....they are in this regard: If you take the 22 starting positions, the Browns probably have the better player at like 15 of them.

Critically, of course IS the QB. QBs matter.

Also....yes, there is more to it. Having better talent hasn't meant that that talent has been better trained, better coached, better synthesized into what an organization is doing. Organizational instability can clearly negate the advantage in talent.

Or as I say....it is the opposite of the common phrase "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". In the Browns case, often the whole has been less than the sum of its parts. That is an important factor.

I mean, over the past few years the Browns in fact have had a big edge on the Steelers in terms of numbers of Pro Bowlers. It hasn't translated into a winning record....but the base talent is there.

 

One of if not the greatest asset Bell brings to the Steelers is his blocking ability. His pass blocking was a huge reason Ben threw for 5,000yds last year. Sure, he gained a lot of yards from scrimmage and he gets a lot of credit for that. He's tough, has good vision and patience, but he's no burner by any measure. He's a really good runner and receiver. He's an exceptional blocker and it goes unnoticed.

Is Johnson a good blocker?

I don't know how to quantify the blocking. Our runners last year were primarily rookies, so I am going to guess that their blocking skills were not up to veteran like quality.

And I don't know about Johnson's blocking skills. I would have to look at the scouting reports....but I do know that in his case it would probably be his secondary assignment.

[Trolling for dick]

 

 

Don't post lies now.. You couldn't be more further away from the truth.. Browns fans aren't like the pompous frisco fans that leave the game before the 4th quarter even starts.... It's apparent you really dont pay attention all that well.. Unlike Stooler vermin, who by part and parcel are mostly comprised of FRAK fandom... The Browns sellout the stadium even with a losing record as where Stooler fans , crawl back in thier trailors and hide when they're losing at the half.

ok

[Trolling for dick]

I don't know a single Steeler fan that fits the description you just wrote.

 

Really, the Steelers are good because we cheer? We have no clue about the Steelers history? Wow, that's just untrue and reflective of a bitter rival who is jealous of the opponent's success. Do some Steeler fans get under your skin? I'm sure. Do Browns fans get under my skin some times? Surely. To say they're all stupid because Zombo predicts a Steelers loss every week, or because you think the Browns are every bit as good as the Steelers except for at qb when year after year there's objective evidence to prove otherwise doesn't make me think all Browns fans are stupid either. Nor does it make me think you or Zombo are stupid. You have strong misguided opinions at times and Zombo says ridiculous things for effect. It's what make you guys interesting to an outsider. Please don't take offence.

Well, apparently you have not been around the same Steeler fans we have. Actually I think that is true. We here get exposed to the FRAK fans....who probably are overall stupider than your basic truly loyal Steeler fan....so really, it is your FRAK fan base that is probably bringing you down....and you should be glad to be rid of them.

 

As for the Browns being as good as the Steelers.....they are in this regard: If you take the 22 starting positions, the Browns probably have the better player at like 15 of them.

Critically, of course IS the QB. QBs matter.

Also....yes, there is more to it. Having better talent hasn't meant that that talent has been better trained, better coached, better synthesized into what an organization is doing. Organizational instability can clearly negate the advantage in talent.

Or as I say....it is the opposite of the common phrase "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". In the Browns case, often the whole has been less than the sum of its parts. That is an important factor.

I mean, over the past few years the Browns in fact have had a big edge on the Steelers in terms of numbers of Pro Bowlers. It hasn't translated into a winning record....but the base talent is there.

 

One of if not the greatest asset Bell brings to the Steelers is his blocking ability. His pass blocking was a huge reason Ben threw for 5,000yds last year. Sure, he gained a lot of yards from scrimmage and he gets a lot of credit for that. He's tough, has good vision and patience, but he's no burner by any measure. He's a really good runner and receiver. He's an exceptional blocker and it goes unnoticed.

Is Johnson a good blocker?

I don't know how to quantify the blocking. Our runners last year were primarily rookies, so I am going to guess that their blocking skills were not up to veteran like quality.

And I don't know about Johnson's blocking skills. I would have to look at the scouting reports....but I do know that in his case it would probably be his secondary assignment.

You and I have had the talent debate before so there's no sense in going through it again. And as far as Pro Bowls goes, I'm not going to look it up but Pro Bowl appearances mean nothing to me. Ben Roethlisberger has been one of the best players in the league year after year and has only been selected to a few Pro Bowls. Some players go to the Pro Bowl after the players voted ahead of them bow out for injury or other reasons. That player then is forever known as a Pro Bowler when he may have been the 3rd or 4th option the particular year he went. Lawrence Timmons has played at a Pro Bowl level for a long time but only made his first one last year. It's not a great indicator of much and sometimes I think it's little more than a popularity contest.

[Trolling for dick]

 

I mean, over the past few years the Browns in fact have had a big edge on the Steelers in terms of numbers of Pro Bowlers. It hasn't translated into a winning record....but the base talent is there.

 

Not that it matters but since you made the statement I was curious.

Pro Bowlers per year:

Pitt Clev

2015 5 4

2014 2 6

2013 3 3

2012 7 1

2011 5 2

Prior to 2011 you don't want to see the numbers,

[Riffer X]

Who the hell would call themselves 'Trolling for Dick' besides some sick, demented, inbred Puker fan?

[gftChris]

Who the hell would call themselves 'Trolling for Dick' besides some sick, demented, inbred Puker fan?

Pretty certain that was a zombo special.

[Trolling for dick]

Pretty certain that was a zombo special.

Indeed.

[The Gipper]

You and I have had the talent debate before so there's no sense in going through it again.

Its because I am right.

If you ask any NFL GM which player they would rather have out of the 22 Browns vs. Steelers players....they would choose about 15 Browns players.

 

And as far as Pro Bowls goes, I'm not going to look it up but Pro Bowl appearances mean nothing to me. Ben Roethlisberger has been one of the best players in the league year after year and has only been selected to a few Pro Bowls. Some players go to the Pro Bowl after the players voted ahead of them bow out for injury or other reasons. That player then is forever known as a Pro Bowler when he may have been the 3rd or 4th option the particular year he went. Lawrence Timmons has played at a Pro Bowl level for a long time but only made his first one last year. It's not a great indicator of much and sometimes I think it's little more than a popularity contest.

Of course, if the Pro Bowl numbers were in your favor....you would argue for that to be a legitimate basis upon which to assess talent.