Weakened Weaknesses

[Flugel]

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, loddies and lassies - get your game faces on because the veterans report to camp this week. Aside from summer school English, I also speak fluent jibberish especially when I have half an acre of coffee bean in me. Unfortunately for some of you, I just can't hold all this excitement hostage. If you don't like my long winded rants you can stop right here; because Tony Grossi can certainly use a couple volunteers to read the quick sand he's selling.

 

My outlook for success in 2015 doesn't require rose colored glasses. All it takes is a little analysis of what Farmer and Pettine did to resolve those weekly weaknesses that opposing coordinators see before setting bullseyes for their game plans. For example, when they see Phil Taylor on the field, they may not see "4 Weddings and a Funeral" in lieu of 2 plays and an oxygen mask. Opponents see that as an opportunity to no huddle us to keep him from waddling off the field. Understanding Phil originally came here to play inside so he's getting moved back inside - what else did our brass do to resolve Phil's deficiencies? 1) They came to terms with Phil's motor and depreciated fitness/endurance after the usual extensive list of why he couldn't get himself into shape again in the off season, 2) They studied up a NT that never came off the field (excelling on 3rd downs) and prioritized his necessity up to #12 overall, 3) Yes, Phil got a raise/extension as a potential calm before the storm when Shelton outplays him into more reps. Come to think of it - it could be a calm during the storm if Phil gets all sour puss about watching a DT/NT on the apex playing like a first round talent. There's only so much "I'm gonna" or "he's gonna" to politically correct the reality "he still hasn't" for this guy heading into season 5. A work ethic that leads to out of gas on 3rd down isn't prioritizing his football profession or winning. Ever seen a guy in shape blow out a pec in the weight room? Fwiw, Danny Shelton played at a weight in the 360s and got his pre-draft weight down to 339 lbs. However, he played at a surprisingly good muscular endurance level so he never had to leave the field. Shelton & Taylor may play DT/NT differently; but they are competing for playing time inside where only 1 at a time can play on the Nose in our 34 Base D. It would be nice if the necessity of Shelton lit a flame under Taylor's dumpster. We'll see; but the front office & HC did a masterful job of putting themselves in the position of "we've done all we can for you - have you done all you can for us?"

 

Other examples of improving weaknesses or deficiencies in random order:

1) Depth of Oline. Bowie and Erving were added to give us an impressive first 7 & make the concept of "play like a Brown" easier to attain.

 

2) Depth of Dline. This has more of a situational rotation than our Oline so it's important there's little to no drop off when #2 on the depth chart replaces #1. The 2014 injury volume also reminds us how important it was to add Starks, Shelton, and Cooper. Even when we didn't lose everyone to injury,we had a guy like Des Bryant playing through an injury all season while others had to play injured as well. I think Bryant's wrist surgery was pretty extensive; and our injury situation prolly had him out there before he was ready. Out in the 5 technique - you're asked to deliver some 2 hand shivers to 320 pound LTs so that ain't easy if you're playing through wrist pain. Nor does the repetition of it all promote healing any time soon. The new faces are aimed at stopping the run, pushing the pocket back, and keeping big uglies off the LBers via tying up more than 1 blocker.

 

3) Red Zone WR. It's no surprise that the first season of our brass went pedal to the metal to jump start the running game. In just the 2nd off season of the new regime, they added a nice blend of size, proven success, and speed in the form of: Bowe, Hartline, Mayle, and Pryor. Our WR Corps was a pleasant surpise in areas like ypc and catching the freakin ball in the clutch in 2014. However, we became too 1 dimensional toward our running game in the red zone so we became easier to defend in the absence of a perimeter threat on the short field.

 

4) OLBer/Edge Rush. This wasn't a weakness in my opinion from Kruger's edge. When he's hitting Brees and causing a pick 6 or prying the ball out of Luck's hands in the end zone - he's not adding to his sack volume. Where I differ from PFF's evalutions/analysis is he gives a text book 2 gap (through the man) to the dept of QB drop which maintains outside leverage/contain to turn the play in. If he reaches a handout and touches the jersey of a RB when his #1 priority is to turn the play up inside - PFF will rate him much differently than his position coach will most likely. The 1 thing I'm not sure everyone is aware of is Kruger played through some lower back pain for much of the first half of the season so adding Orchard's ability off the edge is HUGE while A. Bryant's post surgery football is a question mark at this time. All I know is anybody that can get 18 sacks in 1 season - is intriguing. Ironically, both Kruger and Orchard played college ball in the state of Utah. Hearing our secondary defended the most passes in 2014 isn't as promising for our pass rush as it was for our secondary so Orchard was a very nice idea.

 

5) RBs/FBs Dimension to our Passing Game. I've been saying how important it is to make defenses defend the flats and grey area between flats and hook zones the way Lindy Infante used to challenge defenses drooling about blitzing the cement shoes of Kosar. Man, was it fun to watch defenses pay for that via 123 receptions from our RB position during a 12 win season in 86. I watched the danger of Duke Johnson in a wheel house route vrs FSU in a recent reply of the matchup. I've also seen highlights of Malcolm Johnson coming out of the FB position to catch the ball downfield. In 85, we were 8-8 with Mack and Byner rushing for over 1000 yards apiece; but when Infante showed up here in 86 the ball control emphasis counted on that reception volume from our RB position to spread the numbers in the box horizontally and challenge the zone blitz transition risks quite successfully.

 

So, the new regime has essentially worked to improve our running game, red zone & balanced attack, bust the blitzes adding the types of RBs we can throw to more, stopping opposing running games, and adding pressure off the edge to hurry passers. That's what a front office with a plan and a philosophy can do to expedite the success and fun for its passionate fan base. Land ho - Game on!

[Flugel]

FWIW, I don't dislike Phil Taylor. I've just grown impatient hearing he's the only guy in the NFL that gets injured so that's why he's never in shape. Those 2 things go hand in hand to a large extent so improving one can help improve the other. I've learned when I've seen 4 years of wishful thinking something that isn't coming to fruition with a player - it's time to stop holding me breath.

 

The first impression I had of Phil Taylor before he got his first round contract was this low fat high protein diet (full offish) plus the type of PRE-DRAFT fitness/body weight he committed to in order to impress NFL teams willing to invest first round cake. That was a motivated guy with something to prove prior to the BIG payday. Coincidentally, notice how that was magically the one offseason injury wasn't going to prevent him from accomplishing his goal or coming to camp in shape. There's been times he's shown promise like giving us 5.5 sacks or so inside in 2013. However, when O'Neil mentioned he was surprised at how infrequently Ray Horton wanted to use Phil - it makes me wonder what kind of work ethic his DC was getting from him during the week. Sacks are nice but not at the expense of resisting scheme or taking plays off between them when we need to keep blockers off the ILBers. I can't say for certain what went on; BUT O'Neil showed up excited to use him inside where he felt like Phil would command double teams only to decide to play him in a 5 technique facing only 1 blocker (without good foot speed or decent endurance to justify such a move to play over the OT). I wish I could blame injuries to that head scratcher move but it was done during training camp.

[calfoxwc]

Oh, great grand poobah of excellent and verbose football analysis, I am even more into believing

that the Browns are going to shock the opposition on both sides of the ball.

 

Losing teams turn the corner when they start getting the right players in place, with the right coaches

and systems, and it all comes together.

 

Seems to me, that the weaknesses have become strengths, the strengths have become stronger,

and the depth is there to last the season without disaster.

 

Mayle, I think, will surprise and be a terrific addition. Pryor - changing over to wr... I think, practice squad.

Probably way too much to learn. Or maybe not.

 

I keep rooting for Pullard to make the practice squad. Probably not - but I am rooting for him. Would

probably be better with a 4-3 team. Hope he gets to show he can play in pre-season and stick in the

NFL somewhere.

 

Surely Duke, Shelton, Irving, Orchard, and Cooper alone make this a very, very more complete

and powerful team on both sides of the ball. Seems that the moves the Browns have made, the Browns

have not one area of the team that will make them suffer a losing season. Even the depth is there.

 

If I read one more time where the Browns are doomed because they "don't have a qb", i'm going to

two excedrin extra strength, and not for my knee. The Browns are going to kick ass, across the board,

and I can't wait to see the faces on tv of opposing players stunned and looking crosseyed, that the Browns

are the NEW, weaknesses fixed, depth fixed Browns that just kicked their asses.

 

This is really exciting stuff...and it's ALMOST AUGUST !!!!!!! I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns

have a completely new and kickass look when we go to watch them in practice. Sorry, but I see

KICKASS where we all used to see "competitive".

[calfoxwc]

However, when O'Neil mentioned he was surprised at how infrequently Ray Horton wanted to use Phil Flugs

*********************************************************

I wonder if it was more Horton desperately trying to get more pass rush going, to cover for a few weaknesses

in injuries to Haden, etc. It seems to be more like Taylor was getting really banged up, the offense kept coming

off the field early, and for a guy as huge as he is, getting banged up, injured...lends itself to weight gain from

relative inactivity. And he doesn't have to be the only big man that can dominate at NT now. That should enable "Big Phil"

to be "Big Phil just kicked ass again"

[Flugel]

However, when O'Neil mentioned he was surprised at how infrequently Ray Horton wanted to use Phil Flugs

*********************************************************

I wonder if it was more Horton desperately trying to get more pass rush going, to cover for a few weaknesses

in injuries to Haden, etc. It seems to be more like Taylor was getting really banged up, the offense kept coming

off the field early, and for a guy as huge as he is, getting banged up, injured...lends itself to weight gain from

relative inactivity. And he doesn't have to be the only big man that can dominate at NT now. That should enable "Big Phil"

to be "Big Phil just kicked ass again"

 

Not sure Cal. But snacking between snacks when he's injured/inactive isn't going to improve his productivity. Part timing 5.5 sacks showed me he wasn't bad at 1 gaping a QB sack/pressure; if that was what was asked of him. Horton got his NFL coaching diapers in a 34 D that asked Casey Hampton to be a 2 gap domination on the Nose. He was bigger than Phil so I didn't see the size working against him nearly as often as it plagues Taylor. That doesn't mean Horton asked the same thing of Phil upon noticing he was wired differently than Hampton.

 

David Puzzuoli once gave us 5 sacks at NT in part time duty while Bob Golic didn't give us half that while making the Pro Bowl for his 2 gap skills. Just like a RB can be used differently in situational football (ie: Herman Fontenot caught 47 passes on 3rd downs while Ernest Byner received more handoffs than passes). When Michael Dean Perry came here as a 1 gap DT - he wasn't as excited to play for Marty's 2 gap schemes as he was to play in Bud Carson's upfield 1 gap attack.

 

Here's the thing, if we're getting beat - teams that want to run the clock down can do so more effectively running the ball on us. If Phil's strength is shooting the gap or picking a side of center (with a quick first step) to hurry the passer, it can work against him when teams want to run at our middle. It also removes the need to tie up an additional blocker on him so now you have your Craig Robertsons and D'Qwell Jacksons getting criticized for how they battled the point of attack when they couldn't shed 320 lb Guards. Last year, Craig Robertson looked like our most improved LBer vrs the point of attack. A lot of that had to with the NT keeping blockers off him.

[calfoxwc]

One gap, two gap, three technique....

 

I admit I don't understand all that tech stuff. Never played.

 

Sure, I've read about it, and then I forget, when you and others keep

bringing it up, I go "what the )(*&(* was that stuff about again?"

 

No matter, I'll call later and laugh about it.

 

I do note that Hampton had 9 career sacks. and Big Phil has 7.

 

Here's Big Phil:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CKXwSZeUMAE1lEp.mp4

 

Here's Hampton:

 

[calfoxwc]

Here we go Brownies, Here we go !!!!!!!

[Flugel]

One gap, two gap, three technique....

 

I admit I don't understand all that tech stuff. Never played.

 

Sure, I've read about it, and then I forget, when you and others keep

bringing it up, I go "what the )(*&(* was that stuff about again?"

 

No matter, I'll call later and laugh about it.

 

I do note that Hampton had 9 career sacks. and Big Phil has 7.

 

Here's Big Phil:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CKXwSZeUMAE1lEp.mp4

 

Here's Hampton:

 

 

LOL! You actually know a lot more than you give yourself credit for. 1 gap means getting upfield (into the backfield) via shooting a the closest gap or lining up on a shoulder of an olineman and giving him a rip move or swim move to get past him. It's more of a go around the blocker approach than a get up under the blocker with a better pad height/leverage to push him back or a part of a pocket back. Dwight Freeney was a 1 gap stud that got a ton of sacks; but that him vulnerable against the run at times. When Indy got behind in the playoffs, opponents he got out of his pin your ears back comfort zone that Peyton often spoiled him with in the regular season.

 

Reggie White was a poster boy of 2 gap play through the man. He could ragdoll just about anyone on the planet and control both sides of the blocker in the process. Bruce Smith, on the other hand, was more of a extremely quick1 gap guy that excelled with a spin move off the edge. However, the NY Giants found the kryptonite on that when they put together 2 SB record length scoring drives ending with TDs (over 11 minutes and over 13 minutes). They ran right at Bruce Smith picking a side of Jumbo Elliott all game long, which also did its magic in the time of possession war required to keep Buffalo's potent offense sidelined.

[Tour2ma]

It wasn't all that long...

 

Good collection of takes with fresh perspectives on common themes... with the Big Phil segment standing out.

 

I can still see a play in my head from 2013 IIRC where he slides from NT all the way to the near sideline before racking a RB for a minimal gain. May have been in the blowout vs. Cinci.

 

Whenever it was, it was a "thing of beauty", and my constant reminder of how good Phil could be. I just hope we're not to the point of having to say "could have been" because of the injuries between then and now, but rather we are still in a period when motivational fixes can take hold and be effective.

[nickers]

My big problem for the Browns this season is that everything looks good from the outside to the inside,, Meaning,,,, The QB Pos just looks woafully weak to Me.. maybe thats just Me. But until we find one.. We are what we have been. My other concern is Flip/Pettine. Will they have balls to not get completely suckered into "MartyBall" And be so conservative they're afraid to lose. We have seen how that has worked out before. I'm encouraged by the LB corp getting younger besides Dansby, who seems to be the perfect mentor to go along with Hitner, and the safeties.

 

I guess My enthusiasm should be higher. But I'm caught into this "wait and let's see" mode...

[Mudfly]

My big problem for the Browns this season is that everything looks good from the outside to the inside,, Meaning,,,, The QB Pos just looks woafully weak to Me.. maybe thats just Me. But until we find one.. We are what we have been. My other concern is Flip/Pettine. Will they have balls to not get completely suckered into "MartyBall" And be so conservative they're afraid to lose. We have seen how that has worked out before. I'm encouraged by the LB corp getting younger besides Dansby, who seems to be the perfect mentor to go along with Hitner, and the safeties.

 

I guess My enthusiasm should be higher. But I'm caught into this "wait and let's see" mode...

Gotta agree that QB is woeful and a successful season hinges on one of these guys performing better than they have in the past.......and thats a HUGE "maybe"......

 

But, being a lover of defense, I am at least hoping to rough a few teams up and get some fun, hard hitting football....

 

Although they have said they want a smash mouth style and plan to run a lot, I do believe they can do this and remain aggressive....and not fall into a Marty ball conservative mode.....it'll boil down to play selection and when they decide to pass or run......and, hopefully, they will bully teams(Pettines words) when they are ahead and NOT get conservative trying to protect a lead...

 

Fingers crossed.....and, Gooooooooooooo Josh!

[calfoxwc]

I still see the qb position as being the steering wheel of the car.

The linemen are the engine, and the

rb's, te's and wr's are the wheels.

 

It takes all parts to make it go. It takes all good parts to really go faster.

 

EDIT: AND, the coaching staff is like the pit crew and crew chief in Nascar,

making all the adjustments and calls on the setup and the race.

 

But the steering wheel just steers. That's why I am getting very hyped about

the probabilities of the Browns kicking ass this coming season.

[miktoxic]

yeah. i tend to agree that although the QB position is important, it's not the be all end all position of winning and losing. there's been plenty of 'game managers' that have been at the helm of super bowl winning teams. as long as we don't have a pick 6 weeden running the O squad i think we'll be alright. besides i would have to think that our coaching staff has enough brains not to over complicate the O for mccown and not ask him to be some aaron rodgers out there on the field (it would be nice though, wouldn't it?). i hope we will all be pleasantly surprised with how josh performs this year given the line in front of him. BUT he is just a bridge gap guy and the future has to be looked at when it comes to the QB position.

 

i feel the tide is turning in cleveland. i like the team farmer is building. i've loved his drafts. no matter what happens this year i think farmer is setting up the browns to finally go out and get that true #1 QB this franchise hasn't seen since the 80s. if we stay healthy and the contracts are in line to keep the important players i say go all-in on offense next year in the draft.

[tiamat63]

One gap, two gap, three technique....

 

I admit I don't understand all that tech stuff. Never played.

 

Sure, I've read about it, and then I forget, when you and others keep

bringing it up, I go "what the )(*&(* was that stuff about again?"

 

Basic football scheme lingo doesn't require an advanced knowledge of the game.

[nickers]

I don't want a "Game Manager" I want a QB that scares people..

[Axe]

Losing teams turn the corner when they get the right right franchise QB in place, with the right coaches

and systems, and it all comes together.

 

 

Condensed it, and fixed it for you..

 

The Browns appear to me to be taking the QB approach the Bucs took last yr. Bring in McClown for Johnny Rehab to learn from.. He was supposed to mentor Mike Glennon last yr.. He had two 6'5 WRs and a 6'7" TE to work with.. And still brought the Bucs the #1 pick.. Think about that for a minute..

[tiamat63]

I don't want a "Game Manager" I want a QB that scares people..

Peyton Manning scared everyone but the Hawks defense.

 

While the QB is undoubtedly the most important position on the field, look no further than organizations that have used good to great signal callers that have masked deficiencies in their teams.

 

The Colts might be the best example. Without Manning and Luck they're total trash.

[Frenchie]

Condensed it, and fixed it for you..

 

The Browns appear to me to be taking the QB approach the Bucs took last yr. Bring in McClown for Johnny Rehab to learn from.. He was supposed to mentor Mike Glennon last yr.. He had two 6'5 WRs and a 6'7" TE to work with.. And still brought the Bucs the #1 pick.. Think about that for a minute..

I hear you but there are so many variables that I just don't think you can broad brush such a conclusion. Coaches, systems, other players, injuries and execution play an important role. My hope is that it all comes together for the Browns this year. I think they can play competitively against any team - and if that means 8-8, I'll be really happy because 1 more draft/FA and this team can be really special (yes, with a new starting QB).

[calfoxwc]

Condensed it, and fixed it for you..

The Browns appear to me to be taking the QB approach the Bucs took last yr. Bring in McClown for Johnny Rehab to learn from.. He was supposed to mentor Mike Glennon last yr.. He had two 6'5 WRs and a 6'7" TE to work with.. And still brought the Bucs the #1 pick.. Think about that for a minute.. Axe

************************************************

Au contraire, mon ami ....

The Saints had a truly great qb in Archie Manning, and he had a terrible time. A great qb goes to a playoff team,

he'll probably be great.

A great qb goes to a team that is seriously lacking in talent on offense, does not look great. Bert Jones with the Colts...

You let the Browns nab a star #1 qb next year, and watch him not be a bust, but play

like the real deal. Better to get all the pieces in place, and then get the qb.

Archie was refusing to let it happen to Eli.

[calfoxwc]

Basic football scheme lingo doesn't require an advanced knowledge of the game. Tiam

*****************************************************

I never said it did. I was laughing at myself because I never talk about that stuff. I wasn't complaining -

and explained that to Mr. Flugels - he knows that.

[miktoxic]

 

 

Condensed it, and fixed it for you..

 

The Browns appear to me to be taking the QB approach the Bucs took last yr. Bring in McClown for Johnny Rehab to learn from.. He was supposed to mentor Mike Glennon last yr.. He had two 6'5 WRs and a 6'7" TE to work with.. And still brought the Bucs the #1 pick.. Think about that for a minute..

 

you could have the best wrs in the game but with no OL to protect the QB you'll still be shit.

 

the bucs are doing it all wrong, while the browns are building a team correctly. i don't know what the bucs did to improve their pass protection this offseason but if they didn't plug some holes jameis winston might go the way of tim couch.

[Mudfly]

 

you could have the best wrs in the game but with no OL to protect the QB you'll still be shit.

 

the bucs are doing it all wrong, while the browns are building a team correctly. i don't know what the bucs did to improve their pass protection this offseason but if they didn't plug some holes jameis winston might go the way of tim couch.

I just watched a number of Bucs games on Rewind, just to see what McCown looked like, and gotta say that their OL sucks rocks......they are really really bad...... Poor guy had no chance(or time) to do anything......was running for his life on every play and there was rarely time for those "great" WR's to even get open.......

 

I think he'll do better here, with this line and WR corp, than he did there......(Im hoping)

[The Gipper]

I don't want a "Game Manager" I want a QB that scares people..

Well, we don't have that guy. ...not unless JFF plays here the way he did in college......and no one I know thinks he can do that.

[Tour2ma]

I don't want a "Game Manager" I want a QB that scares people opponents...

Fixed...

[gumby73]

Nicker's look at it the right way. look at the sorry QB's we have brought in and still looked competitive (a OL). We send them elsewhere their out of the league in a year. 1 Exception Derek Anderson.

[miktoxic]

Nicker's look at it the right way. look at the sorry QB's we have brought in and still looked competitive (a OL). We send them elsewhere their out of the league in a year. 1 Exception Derek Anderson.

 

there's no doubt the browns org's record at drafting QBs is dismal. the jury is still out on manziel (for some), but i really wouldn't attach that pick with farmer as we all know who wanted the kid (haslam).

 

yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. easier said than done, but if anyone can draft a nobody and turn him into a solid starter i believe farmer can and i wouldn't bet against him throwing a lot of picks to move up and grap one of the top 3 QBs in next year's draft along with a blue chip WR.

[The Gipper]

 

Condensed it, and fixed it for you..

The Browns appear to me to be taking the QB approach the Bucs took last yr. Bring in McClown for Johnny Rehab to learn from.. He was supposed to mentor Mike Glennon last yr.. He had two 6'5 WRs and a 6'7" TE to work with.. And still brought the Bucs the #1 pick.. Think about that for a minute.. Axe

************************************************

Au contraire, mon ami ....

The Saints had a truly great qb in Archie Manning, and he had a terrible time. A great qb goes to a playoff team,

he'll probably be great.

A great qb goes to a team that is seriously lacking in talent on offense, does not look great. Bert Jones with the Colts...

You let the Browns nab a star #1 qb next year, and watch him not be a bust, but play

like the real deal. Better to get all the pieces in place, and then get the qb.

Archie was refusing to let it happen to Eli.

 

Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z.

[Tour2ma]

yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years.

That's happened exactly once in our history... and, yes, his name was Otto.

 

But for injury, Dr. Frank might have made it two.

[The Gipper]

That's happened exactly once in our history... and, yes, his name was Otto.

 

But for injury, Dr. Frank might have made it two.

If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB.....neither Graham nor Ryan were drafted by the Browns. Graham was drafted in 1944 by the Lions....but he first served in the military then chose to go with Paul Brown as a free agent.

Ryan was drafted by the Rams. Browns traded like a 3rd round pick for him later.

The one Browns QB draftee that had the longest tenure was Brian Sipe....13th rounder, and he was here for exactly 10 years.

[gumby73]

 

there's no doubt the browns org's record at drafting QBs is dismal. the jury is still out on manziel (for some), but i really wouldn't attach that pick with farmer as we all know who wanted the kid (haslam).

 

yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. easier said than done, but if anyone can draft a nobody and turn him into a solid starter i believe farmer can and i wouldn't bet against him throwing a lot of picks to move up and grap one of the top 3 QBs in next year's draft along with a blue chip WR.

Totally agree. The Farmer/Pettine Plan is clear. Year one, Farmer had no trust in using old regime scouts in 2014. Both got by finding their own needs and Farmer after 2014 draft put in his own scouts in place. His West Coast scout really may have Shined in 2015 draft. Shelton, Mayle, Orchard, Pullard, Expre and Telfer. In 2016, I see the same as most QB and playmaker WR. There is a Big, Pro Style Offense QB at Cal that am pretty sure we will scout with our guy named Jared Goff. I got my eyes on watching his tape now and He's got my attention going into 2016 college season. Cardell Jones, hold that thought for now??