Comparison Shopping

[The Gipper]

Here are some posts comparing certain HOF players to others that are not in....and perhaps to ask the question: Why the one and not the other.

 

First: Warren Moon...in HOF.....vs....Drew Bledsoe, not in:

 

MOON.................vs..................................Bledsoe

 

Reg. season record: 102-101........vs.......98-95

atts/comp:................. 3988/6823....vs. .....3839/ 6717

comp. pct;................. 58.4%...........vs.......57.2 %

Yards:...................... 49,325...........vs......44,611

TDs: ........................ 291.......... .....vs......251 TDs

TD%: ........................4.3%...............vs.....3.7%

INTs:....................... 233.................vs.....206

Int%: ........................3.4%...............vs.....3.1%

YPA:...................... 7.2..................vs.....6.6

YPC:...................... 12.4.................vs....11.6

YPG......................: 237.1...............vs....230.0

Rating.................... 80.9.................vs....77.1

Sacks: .................. 455..................vs.....467

Yards Lost:.......... 3415.................vs....3135

4th Qtr comeback... 26....................vs. ..24

Game win Drives:.. 37................vs...31

Playoff record:........3-7...................vs....3-3

Conf. title games:... 0......................vs....1

Super Bowls:......... 0......................vs....1

 

 

While Moon is slightly ahead in just about every category, is it really enough to make one HOF and the other not? And time element is not a big factor because these two played roughly in the same era.

[The Gipper]

Now, how about these guys: Edgerrin James vs. Thurman Thomas

 

JAMES.......................vs..................Thomas

 

Games:........ 148........vs....182

Carries: ........ 3028......vs....2877

Yards:............12,246...vs....12,074

TDs:............ 80..........vs....65

YPC...............4.0.........vs....4.2

YPG...............82.7.......vs....66.3

Receptions:.. 433........vs....472

Yards re..c.....3364......vs....4458

TDs rec..........11..........vs....23

YPC rec.........22.7.......vs....24.5

Tot. yards from scrimmage: 15,610 vs...16,532

Total TDs:.... 91..........vs...88

Fumbles: ..... .44..........vs....50

 

Playoff carries: 218....vs...339

Yards: .............. 852...vs...1442

TDs: ................ 6.......vs...16

Rec. .............. 35......vs...76

TDs: .............. 0........vs...6

Yds from scrimm: 1136 vs. 2114

 

The regular season stats here look pretty even....each guy has the advantage. Thomas wins the postseason numbers. Is his postseason play enough to have given him the HOF nod....where James does not get that? Both guys played with outstanding QBs.

You talk about tripletts: Aikman/Smith/Irvin......Kelly/Thomas/Reed....all HOF......should Manning/James/Harrison be considered in the vein of those other sets?

[BitchTits]

Hey Gip I am about to talk football.

 

I have never been a fan of people who say championships should determine hall of fame, or greatest player. Championships are not won by a single person, and shouldh't have any bearing on whether someone makes the hall in their respective sports. Dan Marino is one of the best ever, but people hang the fact he has no Superbowls as a negative. He wasn't the only person out there. There were 21 others. Post season shouldn't matter.

 

All 4 of the players you named deserve it. But If I had to pick, I pick Moon, and Thomas. Why? Yep because they made the post season more. Even I cannot deny that logic, I just disagree with it.

 

Feel free to ignore this since it's only partially on topic, but why is Joe Namath a hall of famer?

 

Comp % Yds TD Int

50.1 27663 173 4.6 220

 

By any mark this is a sub par career. I am not debating, I really want to know why someone with 50 more picks then TD and only barely over 50% completion is in the hall of fame? Because he was flashy? Because he made a guarantee to win against a heavily favored Colts team? I don't get it.

[The Gipper]

 

Hey Gip I am about to talk football.

 

I have never been a fan of people who say championships should determine hall of fame, or greatest player.

I agree...it doesn't "determine" HOF....but it IS a factor.

 

Championships are not won by a single person, and shouldh't have any bearing on whether someone makes the hall in their respective sports. Dan Marino is one of the best ever, but people hang the fact he has no Superbowls as a negative. He wasn't the only person out there. There were 21 others. Post season shouldn't matter.

But...post season certainly does matter. What teams have the most HOFers in the Hall? 40s/50s Browns, 60s Packers 70s Steelers. Dynasties. Teams that won in the postseason. But certainly your view that titles are not all that matter does carry out in the likes of Jim Plunkett and some others who won multiple titles (at least at QB)....but are not in. So there is the kind of discernment you are wanting there.

 

 

All 4 of the players you named deserve it. But If I had to pick, I pick Moon, and Thomas. Why? Yep because they made the post season more. Even I cannot deny that logic, I just disagree with it.

 

Feel free to ignore this since it's only partially on topic, but why is Joe Namath a hall of famer?

 

Comp % Yds TD Int

50.1 27663 173 4.6 220

 

By any mark this is a sub par career. I am not debating, I really want to know why someone with 50 more picks then TD and only barely over 50% completion is in the hall of fame? Because he was flashy? Because he made a guarantee to win against a heavily favored Colts team? I don't get it.

 

Certain players have short....but very iconic careers. Joe was one. Gale Sayers. A few others. Anyone that saw him play (I don't know if you did....but I did) could tell that he was perhaps the best QB of his era. He just had "it"....and I don't mean the flashy. He could ball as good as any QB. You mention Marino....between he or Namath is the title for quickest release ever of the football.

 

[Tour2ma]

First: Warren Moon...in HOF.....vs....Drew Bledsoe, not in:

Yards:...................... 49,325...........vs......44,611

TDs: ........................ 291.......... .....vs......251 TDs

While Moon is slightly ahead in just about every category, is it really enough to make one HOF and the other not? And time element is not a big factor because these two played roughly in the same era.

This is an easy case because 10% more yardage and 20+% more TD passes are not "slight" advantages. Other points in Moon's favor include his CFL resume and esthetics... Warren threw the prettiest ball I can remember seeing.

 

 

Thomas made it in his second year of eligibility. I think 2015 was James' second... just may take him a little longer. Why? Perceived importance to their teams? Relative strength of their hall ballots?

[The Gipper]

This is an easy case because 10% more yardage and 20+% more TD passes are not "slight" advantages. Other points in Moon's favor include his CFL resume and esthetics... Warren threw the prettiest ball I can remember seeing.

 

Let's face it too: Moon is black and they wanted to get a black QB in there....fair to say? And I don't have a problem with that.....though I might have chosen Randall Cunningham over Moon (if race was the important criteria.)

 

 

Thomas made it in his second year of eligibility. I think 2015 was James' second... just may take him a little longer. Why? Perceived importance to their teams? Relative strength of their hall ballots?

I also think......to refute cbbacker....that James was NOT on the 2006 Colts team that won the Super Bowl. The year after he left...they win. Some may see that as a negative on his career.......because yes, I do believe postseason performance matters to HOF voters.

[Tour2ma]

Fair to say? Ummmm... no, it's not...

[The Gipper]

Fair to say? Ummmm... no, it's not...

Maybe not fair....but accurate.

[BitchTits]

 

This is an easy case because 10% more yardage and 20+% more TD passes are not "slight" advantages. Other points in Moon's favor include his CFL resume and esthetics... Warren threw the prettiest ball I can remember seeing.

 

Let's face it too: Moon is black and they wanted to get a black QB in there....fair to say? And I don't have a problem with that.....though I might have chosen Randall Cunningham over Moon (if race was the important criteria.)

 

 

Thomas made it in his second year of eligibility. I think 2015 was James' second... just may take him a little longer. Why? Perceived importance to their teams? Relative strength of their hall ballots?

I also think......to refute cbbacker....that James was NOT on the 2006 Colts team that won the Super Bowl. The year after he left...they win. Some may see that as a negative on his career.......because yes, I do believe postseason performance matters to HOF voters.

 

I don't believe I said he was on the team, but as far as I am concerened if Namath can get in, it should be an open house. I never saw him play, but as much as how someone plays shows whether or not they deserve to be in the hof. Stats sadly are the best measure, and his stats were horrible for a career. The below average qb's of today match his average stats. The good qb's of today have half his picks and nearly 10% more completion percent. By that standard they should all make the hall.

[hoorta]

 

 

Hey Gip I am about to talk football.

 

I have never been a fan of people who say championships should determine hall of fame, or greatest player.

I agree...it doesn't "determine" HOF....but it IS a factor.

 

Championships are not won by a single person, and shouldh't have any bearing on whether someone makes the hall in their respective sports. Dan Marino is one of the best ever, but people hang the fact he has no Superbowls as a negative. He wasn't the only person out there. There were 21 others. Post season shouldn't matter.

But...post season certainly does matter. What teams have the most HOFers in the Hall? 40s/50s Browns, 60s Packers 70s Steelers. Dynasties. Teams that won in the postseason. But certainly your view that titles are not all that matter does carry out in the likes of Jim Plunkett and some others who won multiple titles (at least at QB)....but are not in. So there is the kind of discernment you are wanting there.

 

 

All 4 of the players you named deserve it. But If I had to pick, I pick Moon, and Thomas. Why? Yep because they made the post season more. Even I cannot deny that logic, I just disagree with it.

 

Feel free to ignore this since it's only partially on topic, but why is Joe Namath a hall of famer?

 

Comp % Yds TD Int

50.1 27663 173 4.6 220

 

By any mark this is a sub par career. I am not debating, I really want to know why someone with 50 more picks then TD and only barely over 50% completion is in the hall of fame? Because he was flashy? Because he made a guarantee to win against a heavily favored Colts team? I don't get it.

 

Certain players have short....but very iconic careers. Joe was one. Gale Sayers. A few others. Anyone that saw him play (I don't know if you did....but I did) could tell that he was perhaps the best QB of his era. He just had "it"....and I don't mean the flashy. He could ball as good as any QB. You mention Marino....between he or Namath is the title for quickest release ever of the football.

 

 

 

Nope Gip I disagree. Namath had two really good years, and a couple above average ones. If he had lost that SB, he'd still be on the outside looking in- just MHO.

 

Crap, Vinny Testaverde beats his career QBR 75-65, and every other stat- except a damn SB win- you want to tell me Joe won that game single handed?

[miktoxic]

namath got in cuz he was the hot commodity back then. the nfl shield and hollywood. they pick and choose their heroes and then when they're tired of them they crucify 'em in the public eye.....

 

look up 'politically correct' in the dictionary and there's a pic of the nfl shield.

[Mudfly]

namath got in cuz he was the hot commodity back then.

To me ....its this simple ^^^^^

 

By todays standard, maybe he doesnt make it......but back in 1975????.....the league was young and the game was different and there were only a hand full of players to pick from.....and Namath was one of the first new era superstars who helped the league transition from a running league to a passing league......threw for 4000 eye popping yards(in 14 games), when it was rare to even get 3000 .....so why not?

 

His numbers today wouldnt do it.....But in the mid 70's?..... who would be a better pick?......

[calfoxwc]

Well, as much as I thought Namath was a Hollywood goofball...

he had a great arm. I remember some really long throws that were amazing -

extremely accurate.

 

Back then, you didn't have the qb protections and rules in place that the

league has now. And Joe didn't just predict it. He declared it. Which was pretty wild,

since they didn't have any kind of team that made most people think "yup, those Jets

are the #1 team in football"....

 

And, in reading some opinions on the matter, I liked this guy's post to explain it:

 

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVjNussBVP_cA.ksPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTE0a3B2azdoBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDRkZYVUkzNV8xBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20070824232526AAYyxAI&p=why%20is%20joe%20namath%20in%20the%20hall%20of%20fame

 

"PD"

 

"The biggest thing was that the Jets were the first AFL team to win the super bowl. After Namath QB'd the Jets to the biggest upset in American Football history the 2 leagues finally combined to the NFL that we now know. Prior to that, the AFL was thought to be inferior."

[Riffer X]

A lot of people don't know this, but Namath was a helluva running QB before he got to the NFL. He was a great athlete with a cannon.

 

Hard to envision this since he was such a statue after all the knee surgeries, which were archaic back then.

[BitchTits]

I understand it was a different game back then. I understand that he threw for more yards then they did back then. I just cannot get behind it.

 

Sure he had a ton of charisma, and flamboyance, but that to me isn't reason enough to make it into the hall of fame. That honor is reserved for the best players ever to play professional football.

 

These are some of his highlights, or lowlights of his career in 13 seasons.

1. Only exceeded 50% comp percent 6 times.

2. Only completed 6 seasons fully, although a couple he had 12, 13 games

3. Only 3x passed 3k yard, 1 of which was 4k yards. Only surpassed 2500 yards 6x including the 2 3k seasons and 4k season.

4. Only surpassed 19 touchdowns 6x.

5. Never threw less than 17 picks if he played more then 10 games. Only achieved less than 10 in 2 seasons where he got hurt, and played in less than 6 games. Even then he threw at least 5 in those seasons.

6. Had 9x where he threw 15+ picks and some of those seasons he only play 12+ games with a maximum of 14.

 

By comparison Fran Tarkenton important highlights:

1. Played 18 years. Only 1 season of less then 13 games.

2. in 14 of his 18 seasons he threw for more than 2500 yards. 2 of the seasons he failed to meet this, he was injured and play 10 games or less in each.

3. He surpassed 17 picks in a season only 4 times. 7 seasons he had 12 picks or less.

4. Failed to reach 50% passing in only 1 season, and had at least 55% in 12 seasons. 5 of which were 60%+

5. 14 seasons of at least 17 td passes ranging up to 29 along that span.

6. finished with career totals of a whopping 47000 yards passing 342 TDs, vs. 266 Ints. And a 57% career completion rate.

 

To me that is a hall of fame career in that day and age. I just don't see it with Namath. I accept he is in, and I am sure he is deserving for some reason. For me as far as a player goes, he didn't deserve it. Maybe his personality and flash had big draws for football, or something.

 

[miktoxic]

if you thought he was bad on the field you should check out some of his movies........

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[nickers]

Sadly.. This is how I will remember Joe Namath.. Besides the one time I saw him outside Cleveland Municipal stadium after a game back in the 70's.

 

[miktoxic]

only thng good about this movie is ann margaret's yams. william smith also adds positives as he was hollywood's toughest guys for like 3 decades.

 

 

[Zombo]

Namath is in because he was the NFL's first Rock Star.

 

First QB to throw for 4,000 yards in a season.

 

First AFL QB to beat NFL.

 

The hair, the lifestyle, the cool, the guarantee ...

 

And it all happened on Broadway.

 

Throw the stats out, nobody cares about them with him, it's the Hall of "Fame" and Joe belongs.

 

Zombo

[Zombo]

only thng good about this movie is ann margaret's yams. william smith also adds positives as he was hollywood's toughest guys for like 3 decades.

 

 

 

Yummy Yams:

 

[Mudfly]

yams AND beans....

 

[miktoxic]

franks and beans....

 

[The Gipper]

Namath is in because he was the NFL's first Rock Star.

 

First QB to throw for 4,000 yards in a season.

 

First AFL QB to beat NFL.

 

The hair, the lifestyle, the cool, the guarantee ...

 

And it all happened on Broadway.

 

Throw the stats out, nobody cares about them with him, it's the Hall of "Fame" and Joe belongs.

 

Zombo

I suspect that many of these folks on here saying "Joe doesn't deserve it" never actually saw him play.

And it can be boiled down for him to this: At the time he played, what QB was better, and the answer it: No one.

 

He was quicker at the release than Marino. Had an arm as strong as Bradshaw. Cockier and more confident than Brady and Manning combined. He had the football smarts of Bernie Kosar.